Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Biden Comments on Protests; Sanders Says Protests are Biden's Vietnam; Noem Included Dog in Her New Book; Trump Says he Wanted to go to the Capitol. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 03, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:31:17]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: President Biden weighing in on the campus protests sweeping the nation. He tried to strike a balance between free speech and law and order in his first camera remarks about the topics since this violence broke out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Trespassing, breaking windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduation, none of this is a peaceful protest.

Dissent is essential to democracy. But dissent must never lead to disorder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The panel is back.

David Frum, did President Biden wait too long to do this?

DAVID FRUM, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": He's acting in full-time, but he needs to act decisively. And he needs to understand why he's in danger. What everyone gets is if these camps - if campuses were shut down by people waving confederate flags, that thing would be over in 30 seconds. When campuses are shut down by people waving Hamas and Hezbollah flags, universities get paralyzed. Now, that's a statement about the weakness of certain liberal institutions.

Now, obviously, everyone understands that President Biden doesn't have any sympathy with this. But the question people have is, is -- the question they have about a Republican president is, does he care? And the question they have about a Democratic president is, is he week? So, we're watching liberal institution show weakness in the face - and hypocrisy and double standards and caving to violence, allowing people to have wristbands that say, if you don't agree with our protests, you can't use the library. But if you do use it, you can't - wear the wristband you can. Meaning the Jewish students can't go to the library at UCLA. You see violence and we see the collapse of the university administration. And the question is, is the president strong or is the president week.

And so Biden has to speak and speak firmly and clearly and say, this is not 2020 repeating itself. I will be firm in support of law and order.

HUNT: I do think we should note, many of the flags that these folks are flying are Palestinian flags. But we've seen instances where people have tried to tear down the American flag and put up Palestinian flags instead.

Ashley Allison, for the president, I mean, how do you see - I mean this is clearly - it took him so long to do this because it's a really tough position for him to be in between many in the base of his party who are very focused on the - legitimately focused on the humanitarian plight of children in Gaza and want to protest about it. But he's also running a general election. And the reality is, these protests, as David points out, we've seen anti-Semitism rear its very ugly head in many of them, and we've seen violence. Did he do the right thing here? Is he striking the right balance? And should he have done it sooner?

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think he waited because he was hoping that it wouldn't continue. That there would - that it would get under control. It would be able to be handled on a case-by-case basis in the university, and that, obviously, has not happened. It has spread. I would have probably advised him, I don't think this is going to end. It's going to jump around to campus to campus, so we probably should get ahead of it.

The thing, though, that we have to remember is that classes are coming to an end soon, but there's - then the summer and then classes resume in the fall. And the reason why many of the people are protesting is because, to your point, the war in Gaza, civilian - people want hostages released, but they also want innocent civilians not to be killed in Gaza and humanitarian aid to get there. And if by the summer we don't - or very soon we don't see a resolution to it, the protests are not going to end.

So, the question is that he was asked at the end of the press conference was, is this going to change any of your policy positions? And he said no. So, the reason why we're in this situation is because people want him to change his policy positions and he is - you have to pick up a - whether you agree with him or not, and I think he should re-evaluate, I think he should be calling for a ceasefire, as well as the release of the hostages.

[06:35:00]

I think we're going to see this continue because there's a lot of people who are not aligned with him. And those people who are not aligned with him are people who voted for him in 2020 and they need - he needs them to vote for him again in 2024. So, it is a tough situation but, you know, leaders have to make decisions, and he's making a call now. And it could cost him the election, unfortunately.

HUNT: So, I absolutely take your point about people who were with him in 2020 who are upset about it now. But the reality is, those people are going to have to choose between Biden and Donald Trump, right?

ALLISON: Yes.

HUNT: Like, that's the choice that's out there. This was - this was David Brooks writing in "The New York Times." He says, quote, "especially since 2016, it's become clear, if you live in a university town or in one of the many cities along the coast where highly educated people tend to congregate," that's us, full disclosure, "you can't use your own experience to generalize about American politics. In fact, if you're guided by instincts and values honed in such lets, you may not be sensitive to the ways the movement is alienating voters in working class areas of Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Georgia. You may come across to them as privileged kids breaking the rules and getting away with it."

Is he right?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, look, he is right. The guise of many working class, blue collar people, they see these wealthy kids at institutions like Columbia, that costs $90,000 a year, complaining about what's going on in Palestine and talking about, you must divest. You're seeing images of certain students saying, well, we should have food and water and not to give us these things is an infringement of our rights. And people say, look at these spoiled, bratty kids.

With that said, if I were advising President Biden - I was on Tuesday and Harry Enten was talking about a CNN poll that showcased only 3 percent of voters 35 and younger are actually concerned about this issue. In 2020, 38 percent -

HUNT: Was it that they were actually concerned about it or was it that they - it was like the top of their list they were concerned about.

SINGLETON: Yes, it's not a top issue.

HUNT: Yes.

SINGLETON: What I mean in terms of them being concerned. They're worried about the economy and a plethora of other issues.

HUNT: Right.

SINGLETON: Thirty-eight percent of you young voters in 2020, Kasie, voted for President Biden. I am under no inclination that the majority of those voters are all of a sudden going to vote for President Trump in November. I think a lot of them are still going to stick with the president, whether they like his position on this issue or not.

And so if I were Biden, Ashley, I wouldn't recommend that the president changes his position on this because the older voters that he'll need, some of those swing voters, they do want the U.S. to support Israel.

ALLISON: Can I -

HUNT: Well - hold -

ALLISON: OK.

HUNT: Let's just play that - no, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Jump in. I'll play this next.

ALLISON: Well, I understand Donald Trump is a - is, compared to Joe Biden, is a very clear and distinct choice. I think what people are doing right now is making voters make an unnecessary choice right now. People are not going to the polls to vote for president. And so when you say - when a voter is saying to you, this is where I want you to be on an issue and I want you to listen, to then turn and say, but the other guy is worse, is not landing with people. And it is - that strategy is actually - and it's not just young people. This is an issue that is spreading across the coalition. And I don't think the comparison that Donald Trump is worse than Joe Biden. We're seeing it. It's not - it's not resonating with voters.

FRUM: But the protesters want Biden to - they prefer Trump to Biden because what they want to show is the - the optics -

HUNT: You're saying the protesters prefer Trump to Biden.

FRUM: Yes. Yes. Yes, the -

ALLISON: I don't know if that's true.

FRUM: The optics - what they're doing here is 2020 all over again. You create images of disorder, you create - that raises the question, is the president strong enough?

Now, the 2020 disturbances happened during the Donald Trump presidency. It was on Trump's watch. He was to blame. He was the one who was not controlling - controlling the situation. But -

HUNT: You're talking about the George Floyd protests (INAUDIBLE)?

FRUM: Yes, the urban riots -

HUNT: OK.

FRUM: These - the attacks on stores, the looting a big box stores. It created - and people see these things on their phone. They don't know the difference between a huge riot that involves lots of people and a small disturbance on a college campus. It looks disorderly.

And when it's disorderly, you drive people away from the Democratic candidate because people have this question, is the Democratic candidate strong enough? So, it's really, really important and it's much more important for a Democrat than a Republican to be strong and say, they - I oppose any kind of disorder. You want to express yourself peacefully, you have a petition, you want to run for office, you want to write a letter to the editor, go ahead. You want to set up barricades on campus and threaten people who walk across what is their property and not your property, you want to say, we, and our little group, have taken over the site of UCLA and we decide who walks here and the authorities are too weak to protect public safety, that hurts a Democratic president unless he is very clear, I am here to enforce the law.

HUNT: I mean -

ALLISON: I just want to be clear that the protests that happened in 2020 were because we saw a black men executed for minutes unjustly. That police officer was convicted of that death. And that's why the world saw the largest uprising around racial justice in 2020. It wasn't because they wanted - they wanted unrest. It was because they wanted justice because there was a police system that unjustly killed a black.

FRUM: Yes.

SINGLETON: But this does play into Donald Trump's messaging about carnage and chaos across the country. Donald -

HUNT: Yes. I want to - I want to say briefly, we - we talk a little bit about the motivations of these protesters and what they want. Do they want Trump or not? I don't - I don't want to get into that and I doubt that the people that are perpetrating some of the violence want Donald Trump to get elected. But I think your point about how it - the impact - and I'll let you make the point that I think you're - you're getting to, the impact is to help him, right?

FRUM: Yes.

[06:40:05]

SINGLETON: Yes. No, it will because his continuous messaging for months have been, the economy's terrible under Joe Biden. There's millions of people coming across the border. We may be on the brink of world war three, which we know isn't true. And now you look at constant media coverage of college campuses being in disarray. You see some of these individuals attacking police officers. I don't think those are students. It's probably outside agitators. But it goes to Trump's point that under Joe Biden's leadership the country is chaotic. Is this what you want another four years of? And most voters are going to say, absolutely not.

HUNT: Well, and I think that's also an important point, David, that there is clearly some outside agitation here, right? Like when we look at the numbers of the people arrested at Hamilton Hall in Columbia. It's like close to half of them were outsiders.

FRUM: Yes.

HUNT: At Portland State there were only four students who were arrested at the library, compared to a number of outsiders.

FRUM: Yes. Well, but the universities, of course, know this. They know who the people are. They're a part of para campus communities. What happened - the thing that Biden is wearing is that university administrators are not prepared to enforce their own rules against certain groups. As I say, if they were - if these people were wearing - waving confederate flags, the rules would be the rules. They would be enforced. When they fly other flags, the rules are not the rules and they are not enforced. And everybody gets that. Their - it's their weakness that caused the problem.

And President Biden - look, President Biden is no friend to any terrorist organizations. He's obviously a staunch supporter of Israel. He's, you know, a lifelong career fighting bigotry of all kinds, including anti-Semitism. That's not the question. The question is, is he firm enough because his political co-partisans, they are showing themselves week in the face of things they would otherwise act against.

HUNT: All right, we've got a lot more coming up.

Next here, a Civil War era ban on abortion has now been repealed in Arizona. We'll get to our morning roundup, up next.

Plus, its Friday, which means we have a great Michael Smerconish to talk to us about everything that's going on in the news.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:46:01]

HUNT: All right, 45 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup.

Arizona Governor Katie Hobbs signing legislation that repeals a 160- year-old near total abortion ban. It sets the stage for a 15-week restriction to remain law in the state.

In just a few hours President Biden will award the Medal of Freedom to 19 Americans. It is the nation's highest civilian honor. The recipients include Mike Bloomberg, Congressman Jim Clyburn, Al Gore, John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, and the Oscar winning actress Michelle Yeoh.

And Republican Kelly Daughtry ending her campaign 12 days before a run-off primary election for North Carolina's 13th congressional district. She did it after Donald Trump endorsed her opponent.

All right, after a week of intense violent protests on college campuses across the country over the war in Gaza, President Biden has broken his silence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Violent protest is not protected. Peaceful protest is. It's against the law when violence occurs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Here, though, is how Senator Bernie Sanders framed it. He had a warning for the president about what he thinks unrest could do to his re-election bid.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): This may be Biden's Vietnam. Lyndon Johnson, in many respects, was a very, very good president, domestically brought forth some major pieces of legislation. He chose not to run in '68 because of opposition to his views on Vietnam. And I worry very much that President Biden is putting himself in a position where he has alienated, not just young people, but a lot of the Democratic base.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, there's a lot there.

Joining me now is Michael Smerconish. He is a CNN political commentator and the host if CNN's "SMERCONISH."

Michael, always grateful to have you.

What do you make of what Bernie Sanders had to stay there?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think there's some truth in it. I may come to that conclusion for different reasons then Senator Sanders because I understand that the president is trying to appease different constituencies, but I think he needs to err more on the law and order side than he did in his remarks yesterday. I think his focus needs to be more on working class voters in Pennsylvania and Michigan and Wisconsin than those student protesters who are part of the Democratic constituency as well.

I mean the school year is now ending. The war is not. And, Kasie, I think that x the unknown is Rafah, because Prime Minister Netanyahu has said that regardless of any ceasefire, that ground invasion is going to go forward. That's not going to be pretty. And I think it could ensure that the unrest spills right into Chicago. And that's where I agree with Senator Sanders that the unrest could be Hubert Humphrey in the making.

HUNT: Do you not see though - I mean in Vietnam the - we had the draft. I mean that just seems like this fundamental difference to me in terms of what is driving these protests and in terms of the depth of this. I mean we do see in some of our CNN polling that this is not while, yes, it's very animating to the segment of the president's base, it's not something that like broad swaths of people put at the very top of their list of things that they're worried about.

SMERCONISH: True. And, thankfully, there are no American boots on the ground, which is your point relative to the draft.

Here's one of the nutty aspects of all of this. I mean it actually benefits Donald Trump, I think, to be portrayed - I can't believe I'm about to say this - the guy who inspired the mayhem of January 6th might be perceived by some as the candidate of stability, the one who's not going to allow the unrest, even though he's the one who caused the unrest of January 6th. I mean that's - that's sort of the insanity of the cycle in which we're now living.

[06:50:05]

HUNT: So, speaking of January 6th, Michael, we showed earlier in the show comments that Donald Trump made in Wisconsin where he acknowledged that he actually did asked his Secret Service detail in that car as he was leaving The Ellipse to take him to the Capitol on January 6th. This has become a very disputed incident. There's been - there was testimony that he, at one point, tried to grab the steering wheel. That particular portion of it has been particularly disputed. But I thought it was very remarkable that he came out and acknowledged that. I mean what does that say to you in terms of Donald Trump's sort of positioning of - you know, there has been an evolution on how he talks about January 6th. And we are now in a place where he is basically making the people who did that that day out to be heroes.

SMERCONISH: Right, including a willingness to pardon those who have been convicted of January 6th or otherwise face trial if he's returned to office.

One of the things that I worry about, as we get together on Fridays, and thank you for the invitation because I too look forward to it.

HUNT: Always (INAUDIBLE).

SMERCONISH: But as I look back at the week that's now coming to a close, I say to myself, there's so much news that there are too many important things that are getting lost in translation, not the least of which is what he said in that "Time" interview in terms of how he'll govern and the prospect of violence should he lose.

HUNT: Yes, and just to be clear about that, I mean, he said in that "Time" interview that if it were a fair election he could guarantee that there would be no violence.

And he also kind of repeated those comments when he spoke to a paper in Wisconsin where he again said that if it's not right, we're going to have to fight. I mean he used the word fight.

Do you think that if he loses there will be violence?

SMERCONISH: I sure hope not. I sure hope the election comes to a firm conclusion on November 5th. I thought that those words mirrored what we heard at The Ellipse at the beginning of the whole day and the events of January - we're going to - we're going to fight like hell, right? We're going to march down there. We're going to fight like hell. I'm paraphrasing, but I think I'm - I'm pretty close. So, here we are a couple of years later and the language hasn't even changed, notwithstanding all of the indictments that surround him.

HUNT: Yes.

Michael, before I let you go, I do want to ask you about Kristi Noem. She is still out and about defending what she put in her book about shooting her dog, Cricket. Here's what she told Hannity on Thursday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KRISTI NOEM (R-SD): The reason it's in the book is because this book is filled with tough, challenging decisions that I've had to make throughout my life. And I hope that people understand from this that what the point of the story is, is that most politicians, they will run from the truth, they will shy away and hide from making tough decisions. I don't do either of those.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Do you think that deciding to not just put down this dog, but then to write about it in her book, I mean, is that just a tough decision? I - it just really makes me sad.

SMERCONISH: I accept none of that. The only explanation that makes any sense is that the story was out in South Dakota. She was trying to get ahead of the curve. She thought she would tell it on her terms and try and make it part of a narrative of what it's like to live in rural America. It backfired. But that is not a story that one volunteers unless you suspect in a vetting process it's going to come out and I'm going to try and put my spin on it first.

HUNT: All right, fair enough.

Michael Smerconish, always very much enjoy having you. Thank you very much. I hope I'll see you next Friday.

SMERCONISH: Thank you.

HUNT: And everybody should watch Smerconish's show on CNN Saturday mornings.

Thank you very much.

Let's just - I want to stick with Kristi Noem for a second, David, because you clearly had reaction to that.

FRUM: Yes. I've never seen a governor of a state do an oppo drop on a dog. Cricket was no angel. Let me tell you that. Like - like she's - she's like besmirching this dog from 20 years ago.

I was talking to a friend of mine this past weekend, who's a successful ghost writer, and he charges very high fees to important clients. And I said you now have a new argument with Kristi Noem because you can say, look, I'm charging you not just for what I put in your book, but for what I tell you to leave out of your book.

SINGLETON: I mean, look, any chances she thought she had to be Trump's VP, and her name has circulated, that's not going to happen. People love their dogs, Kasie.

HUNT: Yes.

SINGLETON: I get it. My uncle owns a farm in Louisiana. I get rural life. I talked to him about this. And he was just like, yes, that's just not something that I ever recall doing, even with my father, your great grandfather. That just isn't really a thing.

So, this excuse I don't by. I think Michael Smerconish was right, I think this was going to leak out and more than likely her advisor said, look, we need to try to spin this, maintain the story on our own terms, and it backfired completely.

[06:55:01]

HUNT: Yes.

All right, let's take a detour because we're going to - we're going to come back to all the dogs that we know and love at this table at the end of the show.

But first I want to talk more about Donald Trump acknowledging that he did ask his Secret Service detail to take him to the Capitol on January 6th, as we discussed with Michael. This has been, as we've said, a disputed but central part of the January 6th Committee's findings on the president's actions that day. Trump had tried to refute testimony from former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson when she claimed that Trump lunged at the Secret Service driver who refused to take him to the Capitol.

Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Remember the person that said I attacked a Secret Service agent in the front of the car. It's not my deal. I'm a lover, not a fighter.

This is crazy stuff. I sat in the back. And you know what I did say? I said, I'd like to go down there because I see a lot of people walking down. They said, sir, it's better if you don't. I said, well I'd like to. Better if you don't. All right. Whatever you guys think is fine. That was the whole tone of the conversation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, what he did there in trying to deny that he lunged at the driver, David Frum, is acknowledged that he wanted to go.

FRUM: Yes. And he wanted - and - look, Cassidy Hutchinson, who is the source of the story, always said the story about the driver was a secondhand story, that she - she did not - she had heard this. She had not personally verified whether there was a lunge or not. But that - but that, the president, former president, intended to go put himself at the head of this mob attacking the Capitol and lead the insurrection in person, lead the attack on the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, and his own vice president in person, we now have it out of his own mouth. Yes, he wanted to be the leader of this insurrection, in person.

HUNT: And let's - let's show actually what Cassidy Hutchinson testified to. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE AIDE: The president says something to the effect of, I'm the f-ing president, take me up to the Capital now, to which Bobby responded, sir, we have to go back to the West Wing.

The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Angle grabbed his arm, said, sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel, we're going back to the West Wing. We're not going to the Capital.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, again, he was disputing the second half of that story, but in doing so he confirmed the first half. What does this tell you about what he might be willing to do in the future?

ALLISON: It tells me that if he does not win this election, we are - we should be very concerned for how the election gets certified. That he will - maybe he won't take to Twitter like he did four years ago, but to Truth Social and charges his supporters to take actions into their own hands. And I think that is - we have seen it play out before. We should be on alert. We should make sure that election workers, everyone that is going to play a role in this election are protected. They're able to do their jobs. That voters are able to go and cast their vote, and that whoever wins, let the voters decide. And whoever wins.

And I will say, I think it is going to require Americans to stand up to Donald Trump finally, not just Democrats and not some Republicans, but people in the Republican Party to say, we love our country and our Constitution and our democracy more than this man. We will not let him destroy it like he tried to on January 6th.

SINGLETON: Look, Kasie, I think the former president needs to move on from this. Strategically, I do not understand why he continues to talk about the election being stolen. I don't know why he dances around, well, if I don't win or if I do win then it's fair, if I don't it's not fair.

HUNT: Yes.

SINGLETON: He's potentially on the cusp of winning. By all metrics, based on everything that's gone on in the country today, why continue this? There's no political advantage in sticking with that argument.

HUNT: All right, this has been a great discussion, but since its Friday, and because we all love our dogs so much, I want to leave you with this. What is better to bring together our divided country then man's best friend. A bipartisan group of lawmakers has launched the Congressional Dog Lovers Caucus.

Wait, why did it take so long? I guess you could call it a paw-cus. That's a ha-ha. I see what you guys did there. This comes in response to what we discussed just a few minutes ago, of course, Governor Kristi Noem's revelation that she had shot and killed her own dog. Congressman Jared Moskowitz announcing the new caucus. He tweeted this, "this group's dedicated to man's best friends aims to foster bipartisan cooperation, will help put paws over politics." Along with the tweet you can also see photos of Moscowitz, his fellow Democrat, Susan Wild, and Republican Nancy Mace with their dogs. Mace said in a statement, quote, "we started this caucus to champion legislation that protects the rights and well-being of dogs, ensuring they receive the care, respect, and recognition they deserve."

I, of course, can add to this. This is my dog Radar lounging in the grass in our backyard.

[07:00:01]

I'm sure you guys all have your own pups at home.

And, David, yours, Ringo, has become famous.

FRUM: Yes. Ringo is a dog who's not altogether unproblematic in his behavior. And he's certainly, as my daughter said, my (INAUDIBLE) daughter said of him when I've complained about one of Ringo's antics, she said, Ringo loves you, he just doesn't respect you.

HUNT: There's Ringo. See, there he is.

FRUM: Attacking the bucket.

HUNT: Awe.

FRUM: He'll do that to your leg if you get in the way.

HUNT: All right, that's a great way to end this Friday. Thanks to our panel. Thanks to all of you for joining us. I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.