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Arizona Republicans Elect Controversial Figures to Republican National Committee; Jewish Student Participating in Pro-Palestinian Protests on Columbia University Campus Interviewed on Goals of Movement and Recent Occupation of Hamilton Hall at Columbia University by Student Protesters; Trump Hush Money Criminal Trial Resumes in New York; Four Officers Killed While Serving Warrant. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 30, 2024 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

MATT MOWERS, PRESIDENT, VALCOUR GLOBAL PUBLIC STRATEGY: He's essentially a blank canvas. He's the only candidate with right-side-up approval ratings right now, about 31 or so percent approval, high 20s on disapproval. And whichever candidate defines him is going to be the one who wins.

So you've seen Donald Trump in the last few days going off on Truth Social, calling him a far-left liberal. I would not be shocked if you begin to see Joe Biden's campaign start trying to paint RFK as the true outsider, and that's going to be the determination. If RFK is seen as an outsider shaking up the system to young voters and to just voters overall, they will pull from Trump.

If he's seen as just a far left environmental lawyer to the left of Joe Biden, he is going to help Donald Trump and hurt Joe Biden. And that's going to be a big X factor with young voters if it gives them an option of none of the above.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So fascinating. Let's talk about some inside party politics, really quick, Matt. I want your take on this. There's some movement in Republican Party politics that I'm not -- that I'm not sure what to make of. Yesterday, former Arizona State Rep. Liz Harris, well-known conspiracy theorist, election denier in Arizona, was elected as a Republican national committee, national committeewoman for the state. Also elected as an RNC committeeman, Arizona State Senator Jake Hoffman, who is one of the people who has been indicted as a so-called fake elector in the new case that's just been brought in Arizona on election subversion.

Are you -- are you happy with those moves? Does this help Republican chances in that critical state?

MOWERS: No. And look, this is a challenge you've been seeing really in both parties, but in particular the Republican Party on the organizational side in the last few years, which you have seen some folks who are not political operatives, who are not people who've run campaigns, who are not fundraisers, but are folks who have really gotten involved in last four years who have some of these extremely conspiratorial views. And you've actually seen it to hurt state parties across the country.

Look at what happened in Michigan. I mean, Michigan eight years ago was one of the best funded best run Republican parties, state parties in the country. Over the course of a few years became essentially bankrupt and defunct. It now has finally new leadership and might actually be able to pull itself together in time to deliver a win in November.

But you're seeing those problems in Arizona today. You're going to have to see the Trump campaign, which is a very professionally run operation, this go around, have to build its own operation in states like Arizona and likely not rely on the state Republican Party, unfortunately.

BOLDUAN: I'm going to answer for Paul because we're out of time. We've got to get to breaking news. Paul says Democrats in Arizona say thank you very much for what we are seeing there. Paul, you get double billing next time. I'm sorry, we've got to run, guys. Thank you so very much.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking overnight, protesters breach a building at Columbia University. Our Sara Sidner is standing by at the scene. We will get right to her for this breaking news.

Court resumes for Donald Trump as a new report says he's angry at one of us his own lawyers.

And the amazing story of the Powerball winner who has been battling cancer, what that means for his fight.

I'm John Berman with Kate Bolduan, Sara Sidner on the breaking news. This is CNN NEWS CENTRAL.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

SARA SIDNER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We are here just outside the campus of Columbia University. Just to my right, you will see Hamilton Hall. That is where students and where things changed here when some of the students broke into the building, went into the building, and occupied the building. The difference in the protests really ratcheting up at this point in time.

And I should let you know that we are just getting some information from the university itself. They have just put this out in the last few seconds, and I want to read it to you, from a university spokesperson, Ben Chang. He says, "Early this morning, a group of protesters occupied Hamilton Hall on the Morningside Campus of Columbia University.

The safety of every single member of this community is paramount. The first step we have taken is to alert our campus community. In light of the protest activity, we have asked members of the university community who can avoid coming in to Morningside campus to do so. Essentially, personnel should report to work according to policy. Access to campus now has been limited to students residing in residential buildings on campus."

So that is the very, very latest we have just gotten in the last few seconds from the university as they try and deal with the situation that they have been looking at, on Wednesday, will have been for two weeks.

All right, we now have with us a Jared here, a student who has been involved in this pro-Palestinian protest on campus. You were at the encampment. You're a Jewish students. Can you give us some sense of what is happening inside of that encampment. And there's been a lot of talk about antisemitism, about Jewish students not feeling safe. How have you felt?

[08:05:00]

JARED, JEWISH STUDENT PARTICIPATING IN COLUMBIA ENCAMPMENT: I have felt entirely safe, welcomed, and supported within the movement, within the encampment when I've stopped by, as have my fellow Jewish students who have chosen to celebrate recent holidays within the encampment, use their voice to stand in solidarity with Palestine.

And all talk of antisemitism I think is a tactic meant to keep people afraid and try to ignore what we're saying. And what we're saying is that there's a genocide going on in Gaza being funded by our government that our university is profiting off of. And I think that if they can use some tactics to portray us all as some sort of hateful mom, then they can go on with ignoring our message.

And so that's why I think it's important for me and all my fellow Jewish students to come forward and say that we've been, we've been part of this from the beginning. And there's no room for hate. There's no room for discrimination anywhere within this movement. I'm very proud of some of my fellow Jewish students who have put everything on the line for Gaza to make sure that Gaza may live, that we can divest.

SIDNER: And that has been in the demand of those that have been in that sort of area on the campus with the tents. Now this has changed, though, that some students are now inside of this building here, Hamilton Hall. What do you know about those who are inside it and what their plan might be?

JARED: I think the plan remains the same. I want to commend them all for their bravery, as well as the faculty who have stepped up, who have seen the depths that the administration is willing to go to try to suppress student voices. So between the students and the faculty they are following in the first steps of historical protests that from the 60s, and they're not going anywhere until Columbia meets the demands of the apartheid divest movement, which have not changed.

It's full disclosure of every company and organization that they are invested in, a full divestment from any company that facilitates or profits off Israeli apartheid and genocide, and stopping the dual degree program with Tel Aviv University, stopping the construction of the Tel Aviv Global Center, full amnesty for any students and faculty that have been disciplined or suspended for speaking up on behalf of Palestine, and stopping our involvement in land grabs in Harlem and Palestine.

SIDNER: I do want to ask you, because the demands have been made very clear to Columbia University. Columbia University says they were talking with you. Talks broke down. There was a 2:00 deadline. And then after that deadline, they said, look, we're going to take action. Students will be suspended that we can identify.

I want to ask you about going back to some of the things that we've heard that have upset some of the students and the community. One is one of your -- one of your protest leaders came out on social media and said Zionists should not be able to live. And that has really ratcheted things up. In people's minds, they're afraid, right? Some of the students are afraid. And secondly, there was someone holding a sign where further were Jewish students standing and singing, and it said, "Al Qassam's next victims."

What do you make of those? Are those people who are involved. I mean, obviously the student protester was involved in the protests. What do you make of those states?

JARED: I will say when you refer to Jewish students that singing, please identify them as pro-Israel students.

SIDNER: Pro-Israel students.

JARED: Because Jewish students on either side of this issue. As far as the first one, that individual is no longer welcome on this campus. He's no longer welcome in our movement. There's no room for hate in this movement.

As far as the second one, none of us know who that person is, and we are aware of organizations that are trying to dress people up and shout hateful things to try to discredit the entire movement. So none of us know who that person is known is. None of us had seen them before. And we're -- I'm pretty sure it's a situation similar to what happened at Northeastern, where one person who was on the pro-Israel side started shouting some violently antisemitic things and then blamed it on the pro-Palestine, and everyone believed him. And then all the pro-Palestine people got arrested.

So instead of focusing on individuals who none of us know who we've all disavowed, we need --

SIDNER: I just want to be clear. You have disavowed and told the former, you know, one of the protest leaders who made those comments about Zionists should not be able to live, you've said, as a group, you are not allowed on --

JARED: I have not seen him anywhere on campus, anywhere in the movement since then. And he is not welcome within the movement anymore.

SIDNER: OK. Lastly, I just want to quickly ask you about how this is all been in put together. There are people from all different sides, some of them are supportive of the pro-Palestinian movement from the outside, some of them supportive of the Israeli government. I want to ask you about how its' being organized, because there are people saying, look, some of the organizers are professional organizers. Is that true in your mind, or was this really something that came directly from the students and is grassroots led?

[08:10:01]

JARED: This is a grassroots student movement. After, in November, Columbia suspended the two leading pro-Palestine organizations, Students for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Voices for Peace, CU Apartheid Divest, CUAD, sprung up in its wake, which is a coalition of over 90 student organizations that did not like to see their fellow students, the people who are protesting testing on the right side of one of the biggest issues in the world right now, silenced by our university. And we've had a lot of support from the student union, the student workers union, and it has all been planned by students who have done an incredible job. And I'm very proud of all of them.

SIDNER: Jared, I appreciate you coming in and talking through this with me. And I'm sure we'll be talking again as this go forward. Thank you. I appreciate your time.

JARED: Thank you for having me. Free Palestine.

SIDNER: All right, so you just heard there from Jared. He's been at these protests from very early on, had a seder there. But we now know the university is really looking at what is happening in Hamilton Hall where dozens of students have broken through and are now occupying that building.

By the way, Kate, Hamilton Hall named after Hamilton, as you well know, has had a long history of students occupying that particular hall -- 68, 72, 85. And in many of these incidents, what the students demanded, like divesting from South Africa during apartheid, has worked. They are hoping that this also works. But the tension on campus very high this morning. Kate?

BOLDUAN: Absolutely. We'll be getting back to Sara and everything that's going on on Columbia's campus as well as other campuses all across the country right now.

Still ahead also for us, Donald Trump will be back in court this morning. And we also have new reporting, Donald Trump is angry at his lead attorney in this case.

And new research suggesting that vaping could put teenagers and others at risk of dangerous lead and heavy metal exposure.

A CNN exclusive as well, speaking with the leading gang leader -- a leading gang leader in Haiti. There's a $2 million bounty for him, but he says he has divine protection as that nation descends further into chaos.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:42] BERMAN: All right, that is Trump Tower. We are waiting to see Donald

Trump leave for a new day of testimony in his New York criminal trial. Trump is charged with 34 counts of falsifying business records allegedly to conceal a hush money payment to a porn star.

New this morning, Trump has reportedly been complaining about his lead defense lawyer, Todd Blanche. Sources tell "The New York Times," "Mr. Trump wants him to attack witnesses, attack what the former president sees as a hostile jury pool and attack the judge."

CNN's Brynn Gingras live outside court, I think with some new reporting on exactly what might be going on here.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, John.

Paula Reid talking to her sources inside of Trump's camp, saying what "The New York Times" is reporting is accurate, but listen, it is also just a stressful situation, right? This is Donald Trump's first criminal trial. Of course, Todd Blanche by his side. He is actually his attorney in two other criminal indictments as well, and they are saying that of course, anytime that you work alongside Donald Trump, you're probably going to face some wrath as many of his attorneys have seen.

But they are focused on this trial, they are focused on this witness that is again, going to take the stand and the witnesses that are coming ahead in the rest of this trial.

So who is going to take the stand? We know Gary Farro, that is a banker who Michael Cohen did business with. He helped him open up those shell companies where the reimbursements to Stormy Daniels actually went through. He helped him with that home equity line of credit to help with that reimbursement.

So this is a lot of the paper trail that we sort of have expected with this trial, essentially because of course, the charges here are 34 counts of falsifying business records.

So this is getting into all of that paperwork that jurors need to see he and really at the end, John, as we noted yesterday in our conversation, this is to help corroborate the witnesses that are ahead, right?

So when jurors hear this evidence and they here witnesses later in this trial, they can say, oh, yes, I remember that. So that is essentially what is happening here, the groundwork being laid for future witnesses, and certainly important witnesses on the stand, and it is unclear who is coming next. We don't know.

Remember, the prosecutors are not putting out the order of their witness list because of the lashing out that Trump has had on his social media, so we will wait and see.

But I've got to tell you one other thing, John, before I let you go. There are actually more Trump supporters here at the courthouse outside in the penned area where they are allowed to sort of be more than we have seen in recent past so certainly a rallying call for the former president as we wait for him to arrive at the courthouse.

BERMAN: Yes, he has been complaining reportedly that there weren't more Trump supporters there.

GINGRAS: Yes.

BERMAN: That it is sparse people in terms of demonstrators. He has been basically calling for people to show up. Interesting that a few finally are.

Brynn, what's the latest status on the gag order?

GINGRAS: Yes, so we are waiting to see if the judge is going to rule on that gag order hearing they had last week on those 10 accusations from the prosecution about Trump violating the gag order. He has not done that yet, but there is another gag order hearing later this week on Thursday for the four more allegations that prosecutors say Trump violated.

So he is facing up to $1,000.00 for each of these 14 different times that prosecutors said Trump violated this gag order. We are waiting to hear how the judge is going to rule, what sort of penalty he might enforce against the former president. So we are continuing to standby for that -- John.

[08:20:11]

BERMAN: All right, Brynn Gingras outside the courthouse. Brynn, thank you very much -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Joining us now on all of this is CNN legal analyst and former US attorney, Michael Moore. It is good to see you, Michael.

Let's start with where they are going to start back up today, and then I want to talk about the reporting that John was just talking about with Brynn.

Michael Cohen's former banker, he is going to be back up there. He started already to testify to working with Michael Cohen on the financial arrangements made to pay the $130,000.00 to Stormy Daniels, the heart of this case, if you will, what are you watching for then today and how important is this testimony to be laying out the actual alleged crime?

MICHAEL MOORE, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, and I am glad to be with you this morning. This is not going to be the most riveting testimony that this jury will hear, but it is going to be an essential part of the prosecution's case, and that is that you have to give some foundational evidence to the theory of the case that is, that there was an effort and a conspiracy to create false records, to make false statements to do these things as planned to keep this information under wraps, because it is a catch and kill story.

So, I think really the most important thing they are going to get from Mr. Farro will be the efforts and the great lengths that they went to, to try to concoct this scheme. So getting the loans, by making statements, those types of things to move this -- sort of this plan for as it related to the payments that are really at issue in the case.

Again, the prosecutor has got to balancing act to do, that is to try to keep this rather mundane testimony interesting and not lose the jury. And at the same time, be ready to move forward with something more riveting as the week goes on.

And so, it is keeping that jury's attention, it is keeping that hook in their mouth, if you will, to keep them interested in the case, despite the fact that this is the case of such national significance and high media attention right now.

BOLDUAN: Yes, and Michael, there is also then the defense strategy which gets to this new reporting from "The New York Times" that Donald Trump is not happy with how it all is going so far.

As John was talking about Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan of "The New York Times" reporting this. Let me read you just a little bit: "Although Mr. Blanche (Todd Blanche, his lead attorney) has been Mr. Trump's favorite lawyer for some time, behind closed doors and in phone calls, the former president has complained repeatedly about him in recent some weeks according to people familiar with the situation."

"His gripe that Mr. Blanche, a former federal prosecutor and veteran litigator has not been following his instructions closely and has been insufficiently aggressive. Mr. Trump wants him to attack witnesses, attack what the former president sees as a hostile jury pool and attack the judge."

What do you think of that?

MOORE: I think there are probably two things going on. I mean, I do think there is a certain amount of stress that happens in every case and it is not unusual to see clients and their lawyers get crossed up simply because of the pressure that the client feels. The lawyer is used to being in the courtroom, the client oftentimes is not, it creates a natural tension sometimes.

The other thing is I think Mr. Trump has recognized and that he is not the CEO of the courtroom and he does not control everything that happens there and he has got a skilled lawyer who has a reputation to defend, a client to defend, and a process to protect. And so Mr. Blanche is not going to likely throw all of that away simply because Mr. Trump is used to being able to throw barbs and hot rhetoric at campaign opponents and thinks that you should do that to the judge or the witnesses in the case.

So his lawyer is likely listening to the witnesses. He has decided on how aggressive to go after cross-examination. He is looking at the jury and he is making decisions about who is with me, who is not with me. Where do they seem interested, does it seem like they may be sympathetic to this particular witness?

And so he is also using his legal prowess that he has developed over a number of years to defend the former president. So I really think it is probably both the stress, but also this issue of control and Trump has recognized that he just doesn't control this like he made his own campaign surrogates and a lawyer, a good lawyer is one who push back on the client and say look, this is a strategy call. We will talk about it, but this other part over here deals with how we perform and sort of the courtesies to the court and the professionalism that we are going to display in the courtroom and you're not going to tell me how to do that.

If that is what you think you need to do, then you need to get another lawyer. But I am going to represent you the best I can and that is why you hired me. Trust me to do the job that you hired me to do.

BOLDUAN: And don't say that to Donald Trump. We have seen the kind of turnover he gets for his attorneys. You might not want to do that at trial. That's for sure.

MOORE: It might be good to have somebody really push back on it. I mean, I think that is the sort of the thing, you know, and good lawyers will do that.

There is no case that is worth more than your professional reputation going forward because there is always another case.

[08:25:01]

BOLDUAN: There is always another opportunity also to talk to you, Michael. Thank you so much. It is great to see you.

A reminder to all of you, we will have special coverage of today's trial as it will soon be getting back underway this morning -- john.

BERMAN: All right, four officers killed in North Carolina. We just got an update from the police chief on the investigation and how will the Biden administration address the protests on college campuses across the country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: This morning, four law enforcement officers in North Carolina are dead, four others injured. They were shot while trying to serve a warrant outside a home in Charlotte. They came under fire as they approached the home, the suspect was killed at the scene and this morning, police are questioning two other people.

I just spoke with the police chief who says the suspect was firing high powered weapons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF JOHNNY JENNINGS, CHARLOTTE-MECKLENBURG POLICE DEPARTMENT: We know, it was an automatic high-powered rifle that was being used several -- several rounds of fire.

It was just a very tense situation knowing that these officers that were responding, knowing that they had people -- officers that they've had to get to, to try and get out and rescue. Just the pressure that they were under to try and save lives and they acted heroically throughout that entire scene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So three of the officers had been identified, the name of the fourth has not been released.

CNN's Dianne Gallagher is in North Carolina with the latest for us this morning.

Dianne, what are you learning?

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, just an absolutely tragic day here in Charlotte, John. Eight law enforcement officers injured, four of them killed as a Us Marshals Fugitive Task Force was trying to deliver a warrant for possession of a firearm by a convicted felon at a home. It is just down this street here, Galway Drive.

They are just beginning at this point to open it up a little bit to traffic. Police are still down there. The chief admitting this morning, Johnny Jennings that they are still trying to determine exactly what happened. But their initial report is that when the task force approached that home, the suspect who was identified overnight as Terry Hughes, Jr. began shooting at those officers.

[08:30:12]