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CNN International: Right Now: Japanese PM Visits U.S. Congress; Southern U.S. Swamped By Storms; Soon: Japanese Prime Minister To Address U.S. Congress. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired April 11, 2024 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RAHEL SOLOMON, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": Good morning or good evening, depending on where you're watching. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York.
Kishida in Congress, the Japanese Prime Minister to address lawmakers ahead of the trilateral talks with the United States and the Philippines. Energy attack, the largest power plant in Ukraine's Kyiv region is destroyed by Russia. We're going to have the latest here. Plus, Alabama under water, drivers having to contend with flash floods as storms dump heavy rains across the southern U.S.
But first, we are keeping a close eye on the U.S. Congress. The Japanese Prime Minister is set to speak to lawmakers just minutes from now. Fumio Kishida's address comes ahead of a summit later today, a live look now, when U.S. President Joe Biden will host the Prime Minister as well as the President of the Philippines, Ferdinand Marcos, Jr. It's Washington's latest effort to draw Asia-Pacific allies closer as China's influence in the region grows. We're going to bring you Mr. Kishida's remarks when they happen.
But this morning, we want to turn our attention to Ukraine, where right now the nation is dealing with the aftermath of a series of Russian attacks targeting its energy infrastructure. A Russian missile attack destroyed the largest power plant in the Kyiv region, filling the sky there with flames and thick black smoke. At this point, there are no reports of any injuries. But, at last check, hundreds of thousands of people were without power in Ukraine, some of them sheltering in subway stations. Russia taking advantage of Ukraine's air defenses, which were made vulnerable due to dwindling resources. A top American military commander warning this week that Ukraine will lose the war without more aid from the U.S.
I want to now bring in CNN's Clare Sebastian, who is following this from London. Clare, give us a sense based on what you can tell what the latest statuses in terms of these power outages.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Rahel. We heard that the worst affected region in terms of power outages was the Kharkiv region in eastern Ukraine, some 200,000 people said to be without power there. This morning, mercifully in the Kyiv region where we saw this very powerful plant, the Trypilska power plant, basically destroyed, according to the company that owns it. There weren't power outages. This may be to do with partly the fact that we're no longer in the depths of winter, warmer weather, imports of energy from Europe, things like that. But, it is still a significant blow. This company, by the way, that runs this power plant, has now lost all three of its power plants. One was occupied by Russia back in 2022. One destroyed in March, and another wave of strikes on Ukraine's energy infrastructure.
So, you see the sort of cumulative effect of this building up on Ukraine's power grid. They are now, of course, trying to rebuild, trying to mock this up, but of course, in full sort of worry and expectation that this could happen again. Now, Russia has said, the Ministry of Defense came out and said that this was in response to what it said were Ukrainian attacks on its own energy facilities. We have seen an uptick in long-range drone attacks by Ukraine on things like Russian oil refinery. So, they are saying it is in response to that.
But, of course, we have seen this tactic really over months and months of this war, especially in the winter of 2020, 2023, targeting the energy grid, trying to exhaust the Ukrainian people, cripple their economy. And I think this is a continuation of that. Of course, we are now hearing multiple appeals from Ukrainian officials, including President Zelenskyy speaking today in Lithuania, calling for more air defenses, saying that without them, Ukraine will be left extremely vulnerable. Rahel.
SOLOMON: All right. Clare Sebastian live for us there in London. Clare, thanks so much.
All right. We're going to bring you this news just into CNN. Legendary U.S. football player O.J. Simpson has died. That's according to a social media post from his family. Simpson, whose real name was Orenthal James, was considered one of the greatest running backs of all times. He also tried his hand at acting. Later, though, he became infamous for what happened off the field. He was tried and acquitted in the 1994 murder of his ex-wife Nicole, and her friend Ron Goldman. O.J. Simpson was 76-years-old.
To continue the conversation, let me bring in Legal Analyst Areva Martin who joins us on the phone. Areva, just your first reaction from this. As we said, at one point, he was more well-known for his skills on the field, although his legacy became known about what happened off the field. Areva, do I have you? OK. We do not have Areva, but we will get that up for you.
In the meantime, in the meantime, I want to throw it to this package. Take a look.
[11:05:00]
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): O.J. Simpson soared to fame as number 32 for the Buffalo Bills -- O.J. SIMPSON, FORMER AMERCIAN FOOTBALL PLAYER, ACTOR, & BROADCASTER: I'm sorry for all of it.
ELAM (voice-over): -- and plummeted to infamy as inmate number 1027820 in the Nevada Department of Corrections. In between, Simpson led a life filled with more surreal drama than all of his various film and TV projects combined.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J., are you a suspect?
ELAM (voice-over): Mass media experts say Simpson's sensational televised low-speed chase, arrest and murder trial --
JOHNNIE COCHRAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR O.J. SMPSON: If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.
ELAM (voice-over): -- stand as the first reality show and perhaps the greatest three ring television phenomenon ever. At one point, the world heard O.J. Simpson's ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson say --
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, O.J. SIMPSON'S EX-WIFE: I don't want to stay on the line. He is going to beat the shit out of me.
ELAM (voice-over): Then later, Simpson was charged with the horrific murders by knife of Nicole and her friend Ron Goldman.
FRED GOLDMAN, RON GOLDMAN'S FATHER: Ron and Nicole were butchered.
ELAM (voice-over): The trial made lawyers and even witnesses household names.
DEIDRE ROBERTSON, JUDGE ITO'S CLERK: Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder.
ELAM (voice-over): When the jury freed Simpson, celebration erupted in parts of Los Angeles, but Simpson would never recapture his idol status. Simpson first bringing into the national spotlight as the Heisman Trophy winning running back at the University of Southern California. Then, 11 spectacular years with the NFL vaulted him to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Simpson cashed in on the popularity, becoming a pitchman for Hertz and an actor, becoming well known for the Naked Gun movies.
(VIDEO PLAYING)
ELAM (voice-over): Simpson played a lawman on screen and ran into trouble with the courts off screen. He lost the multi-million dollar wrongful death suit brought by the families of his ex-wife, and Ron Goldman, then moved to Florida. In 2000, Simpson was accused of assault in a road rage incident in Miami. He was found not guilty. In 2005, he was found guilty and fined for stealing satellite television. Then in 2007, in Las Vegas, police arrested him on several felony charges, including kidnaping and armed robbery. In that case, Simpson and armed accomplices raided a hotel room in what he called an attempt to just get back some of his stolen belongings. SIMPSON: And I didn't know I was doing anything illegal. I thought I was confronting friends and retrieving my property.
ELAM (voice-over): The Nevada jury never bought his story and instead sent him to prison. He was released on parole nine years later in the dead of night, with no fanfare and no bright future, just the distinction of arguably the greatest rise and fall in pop culture history.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SOLOMON: And I do believe we have legal analyst Areva Martin now with us on the phone. Areva, we appreciate you hopping on. I just think, first your reaction, it's hard to imagine another person certainly in American pop culture who has had, in the words of Stephanie Elam there, the type of rise and the type of fall that O.J. Simpson have. What's your reaction to this news?
AREVA MARTIN, LEGAL ANALYST, LOS ANGELES (ON THE PHONE): Yes. Really shocking news. Didn't know he had cancer. The family has kept his illness apparently very quiet, very secret. And he has lived a pretty quiet life after released from that Nevada prison. But, Stephanie is right. I mean, his life was a story too, Heisman Trophy winner, NFL Hall of Famer, coveted spot on -- as a commentator for Monday Night Football, and then his movie, star status, getting those films that he was in, and we can't forget that hurts commercial, running through airports that made him a household name, and really changed the game in a lot of ways for how black athletes were viewed by the public.
And here is a man who, in some ways, had it all, as folks would say, but yet, after being acquitted for the double murders, being then convicted for those robbery charges, his life now and being very quietly, surrounded by family and children and grandchildren, we are told. So, not the kind of ending you would expect for someone who was as popular in the 70s, 80s, as O.J. Simpson was.
SOLOMON: Yeah. Now, Areva, speaking of his family, I want to read a tweet from his family, if we can pull it up on the screen. Areva, just standby for just a moment. His family tweeting a short time ago and we'll pull it up here for our audience. But, "On April 10th, our father, Orenthal James Simpson, succumbed to his battle with cancer. He was surrounded by his children and grandchildren. During this time of transition, his family asks that you please respect their wishes for privacy and grace."
[11:10:00]
Areva, as you sort of walked through some of the more popular moments in terms of pop culture of O.J. Simpson's life, I'm reminded of that most infamous white Ford Bronco chase in June 1994. Just sort of remind us of how that really captivated the nation.
MARTIN (ON THE PHONE): It was the first time ever when we -- you think about the trial, the double murder trial of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman, that Americans, black, white, the entire country, was glued to their television set for days, for months. And the stars that were made out of that trial, the judge, the district attorney, Johnnie Cochran, obviously, the famous line "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit", and then the country being torn apart. African-Americans celebrating the acquittal in the double murder trial, and many white Americans believing that it was an unjust and unfair decision by the jury. And then he went on to be found liable in a civil murder trial.
So, it really changed the way I think Americans thought about criminal trials. It definitely created a whole genre of trial and crime-related television and content. And he'd never ever, despite efforts after that trial, I don't think for many Americans, they never ever believed that he wasn't guilty of killing his wife and her friend.
SOLOMON: Yeah. And Areva, would you remind me -- I mean, as you said, the Johnnie Cochran line, "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit", the case against O.J. was a case that catapulted many people surrounding that case, including the prosecutor, sort of into the national spotlight.
MARTIN (ON THE PHONE): Absolutely, including the judge. Let's not forget Judge Ito. He also became a household name as well. And it also shined a light on corruption in the Los Angeles Police Department. If you will recall, there were -- there was evidence presented in that trial of just the botched and in some ways intentional misconduct with the Los Angeles Police Department, and really gave rise to a look at the disparities in the criminal justice system, in law enforcement, particularly in the Los Angeles Police Department at that time. It just revealed so many I'll say fissures in America, along racial lines, again, African-Americans celebrating the acquittal while white Americans feeling as if it was a unjust decision, and still believing, many people to this day, that he was guilty of those murders.
And I think for a lot of people, after the acquittal, there was an expectation that he would go quietly into the night and go live a very private life in Florida. But then, to have him back in the news, back in the spotlight some years later, as he is entering his hotel room, saying he is trying to retrieve his personal property, only to be indicted, charged, tried, found guilty, and incarcerated for nine years, not for the double murders, but for what he says was trying to retrieve his private property
SOLOMON: And Areva, before I let you go, my understanding is that you knew O.J. Simpson, or you had met O.J. Simpson. If you might be able to share sort of what your experiences were and what he was like.
MARTIN (ON THE PHONE): Very controversial figure, particularly in African-American community. He was famous for saying he wasn't black. He was O.J. So, here is a man who in some ways thought that he had transcended his African-American statuses simply because he was accepted in what I'll call mainstream America, mainstream media, your big advertising campaigns, big movies. And for a lot of African- Americans, it was troubling to see that he no longer thought he was black, but that he somehow, again, had transcended his blackness, and if you are black in America, that is impossible to do, no matter how rich you are, no matter how famous you are. The reality is there are certain things that always are a part of being black in this country, and President Obama even talks about it. So -- SOLOMON: Yeah.
MARTIN (ON THE PHONE): -- I did meet him. Definitely not a friend. Definitely not someone who I had any close relationship with, but I live in Los Angeles, and he was a quite a figure on the scene, at charity events and public events in Los Angeles. So, it was almost impossible to probably not meet him or run into him. But, celebrated early on in his career, again, his football prowess, undeniable, his success even in advertising and entertainment, undeniable, but obviously, very troubled man, very troubled that is. I think one way we should -- can think about him and that was revealed in the many documentaries that have been done about his life.
[11:15:00]
SOLOMON: Yeah. Areva, we're going to leave it here, but it sort of reminds me of something. You just talked about President Obama thinking about this, Jay-Z, and one of his more recent albums, 4:44, famously has a song about being black and not being able to transcend race, even if you are wealthy. So, I bring that up only to mention the fact that all of these years later, his influence in pop culture is still very much there. Areva Martin, we certainly appreciate the time and your insights today. Thank you so much.
MARTIN (ON THE PHONE): Thank you.
SOLOMON: OK. I want to continue the conversation now. I'm joined now on the phone by Investigative Journalist Diane Dimond. She was the first reporter at the murder scene, that murder, of course, in June of 1994. Diane, if I can ask sort of what your first reaction is to this new study of the passing of O.J. Simpson.
DIANE DIMOND, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST (ON THE PHONE): Well, like everybody else, I was completely stunned. I knew that he had had some health problems, but I didn't realize how acute they were. I think my first thought today is of his children, Arnelle and Jason, his daughter and son. I think they've been sort of forgotten in all of this. But, I have to be honest, the first person I thought of was Kim Goldman. She has worked tirelessly to remind the people that her brother was killed in a very horrific fashion, along with Nicole Brown Simpson, that day, and he too has been sort of forgotten in the history of O.J. Simpson.
You mentioned I was there the very first day or the very first reporter that day, as the bodies were being transported away in a morgue truck, and I was stunned, I have to be honest with you, at the amount of blood leftover. There was a long walkway up to Nicole Brown Simpson's front door -- front gate. And there were pavers on the sidewalk and there was just rivulets of blood coming down toward the main sidewalk. And my cameraman and I were the only ones there. We saw the yellow police tape, but we lifted it up and we went in the front gate, and it was a horrific scene. There was blood everywhere.
And I was stunned to see Nicole Brown Simpson. The front part of her house was all glass. And we could look into the living room and the candles were still burning, and there were photographs of the children and O.J. on the horse above the fireplace, and all of those things came flooding back to me today. People seem to remember that he went to prison for the armed robbery in Las Vegas, but I remember the murders. That's what I remember most.
SOLOMON: And Diane, remind us of the significance of the leather gloves. Areva Martin and I were just talking about how Johnnie Cochran's famous line "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit" became a sort of pop culture colloquialism, if you want to call it that. I mean, it certainly took on a life of its own. What was the importance, as we look here, what was the importance of the leather gloves to this case?
DIMOND (ON THE PHONE): Well, I do remember that, and Johnnie Cochran, rest his soul as well, always came up with great lines like that. The gloves were important because they were full of blood, and they were found behind the guest house, at O.J.'s house. So, how did they get there? And what never came up, to my remembrance anyway, you should ask Marcia Clark about that, the prosecutor, they never said, when leather gets wet, what does it do? It shrinks. So, when O.J. did his very famous trying to struggle to get his big hand in the glove, of course, it didn't fit it. Anytime leather gets wet, it shrinks. And I don't think that that was brought home to the jury at all.
I heard your discussion about the jury decision and how -- it really did split the community. I lived in Los Angeles at the time, and it did split the community along racial lines. This is a story that had everything. It had sex and drugs and rock and roll, and look at -- Nicole was this beautiful woman and it was a biracial marriage, when that wasn't as common as it is today. And I don't know. I just hope people --
SOLOMON: Diane, let me -- I'm sorry, go on.
DIMOND (ON THE PHONE): I was going to say, I just hope people remember the victims that O.J. Simpson left behind.
SOLOMON: Diane, let me ask, deliberations only took four hours, less than four hours, in fact, when the jury would turn to a not guilty verdict. That happened on October 3 of 1995. I'm curious if you were in the courtroom when the verdict was read and even if you weren't, what your reaction was, having covered the case so closely?
DIMOND (ON THE PHONE): Yeah. I was not in the courtroom. I was assigned to go to a local bar. I happened to be in New York at the time, and I went to a local bar. My news desk sent me to a particular place and it happened to be an Irish bar.
[11:20:00]
So, it was mostly white people. And there was shock. When the verdict came down, jaws dropped. There was dead silence. But, later when you looked at the footage from predominantly black places, black bars, black schools, black, whatever, it was joyous. So, I really do lament the fact that instead of thinking about the facts of the crime, it did devolve into a racial split in the United States, and that's too bad.
SOLOMON: Diane Dimond, we so appreciate your time today. Thank you so much.
All right. We want to recap now for our audience, if you may just be joining in, O.J. Simpson, a famous American NFL great at one point, became later known, of course, more infamously for being acquitted of a double murder. It's a case in 1994 that still has cultural -- pop culture references till this day, but it's a case of really divided the nation.
I want to bring in now this tweet from the family. So, this is coming from the family, announcing "On April 10th", so, yesterday, of course, "our father, Orenthal James Simpson, succumbed to his battle with cancer. He was surrounded by his children and grandchildren. During this time of transition", this tweet coming from his family, "his family asks that you please respect their wishes for privacy and grace."
I do believe we now have CNN's Jean Casarez with us. Jean, give us a sense of sort of your familiarity with the case. I mean, it certainly -- if you live in this country and even if you don't, you have to be familiar with O.J. Simpson, and just sort of what your reaction is to this news.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, of course, in regard to -- I think there are two O.J. Simpsons, because there is the legendary football great and then there is the person that was the defendant in two different courtrooms. But, when we think about the O.J. Simpson criminal trial in California, obviously, it was huge. Everyone was glued to their televisions to watch it. But, it was Court TV, and they had cameras in that courtroom, and because of those cameras in the courtroom, it was one of the first times that a trial was broadcast in its entirety with cameras in the courtroom. But, it allowed for everyone in this country and internationally to watch that trial, day after day, to see the evidence for themselves, to see the issues with the evidence, to see actually what evidence they did have in the demeanor of the witnesses.
And that trial went on for upwards of nine months, obviously, acquittals. It was a verdict in 30 minutes by that jury. But, when I covered, I was the correspondent for his Nevada kidnapping trial, and charges were brought in 2007, and I was right there in Las Vegas. And this was a very serious trial because it was armed robbery. It was involving he and his cohorts, his golfing buddies. There was personal memorabilia that had been his but it was owned by others at that point. And so, they decided on their own they were going to go get it. Well, some of his friends had some guns on them. And there was a kidnapping charge because the people that owned the property, they were not allowed to leave.
And I met O.J. Simpson because he was out on bail. And every day in the hallway, he was just walking around, talking with people. He is facing decades in prison. But, he was just so nice to everybody, as he was talking. And once he found out that I was from Southern California and that I graduated from USC, which is where he had gone and got the Heisman Trophy, he just wanted to talk to me all the time because his passion was USC and the Trojans and California. And he was just -- that was what I remember, was his niceness, his humbleness. And he just sort of like took it as it came, this trial.
He was convicted. He went to prison in Lovelock prison, which was northern Nevada, 33 years he was sentenced to. And we were hearing that he was becoming a mentor to young men at that prison of how to lead their life in the right way. And I think that's what he devoted his time to in that prison. Now, he was released after nine years. I was there up in northern Nevada as the correspondent when he was released. And it was in the darkness of night. No one saw him being released. But, he immediately went to the golf course and he immediately started playing golf with his friends and his family.
But, one thing that we heard at the time, everyone sort of thought this kidnapping charge is ridiculous in Las Vegas. The courts didn't, prosecutors didn't, and the judge didn't like him at all. I'll tell you that much. But, people thought that maybe that conviction was because there was acquittal in those two murders that people wanted to make him pay in some form or fashion, and that that conviction at that time was a reflection of him not being convicted in California.
[11:25:00]
Just a thought but --
SOLOMON: Fascinating.
CASAREZ: -- it was what people potentially thought was happening.
SOLOMON: Fascinating, Jean, also to hear you to talk about the two O.J.s, at least from your perspective Stephanie Elam said something in her obituary package that we ran at the top of the show about just how high his rise was and how low his fall was. And I'm curious as someone, Jean Casarez, who covers so many trials, so many high-profile trials, we are now talking about 20 years, 20 years after this double murder, he is still a household name, I would argue. And it's hard to even think of another case, another person who sort of had that similar effect. What do you think?
CASAREZ: I think it's partly his charisma. He has got charisma. I think it's partly his demeanor. When he got out of prison, he started a Twitter account and he started just talking about things that were happening in the country. And a lot of people followed him and listened to him. He was just sort of matter of factly. How you doing? Just want to talk to you about this today. And I think he kept in the limelight in one sense. But, I think he is just one of those people that for all of the disparities between him could not get out of the minds of people. He is someone that was just sort of, I guess, a legend, rightly or wrongly, as you said, someone who was adored, someone who was hated, but sometimes, those people just aren't forgotten.
SOLOMON: Wow. Jean Casarez, we really appreciate your insights and sort of taking us through your reporting, but also your interactions with O.J. Simpson --
CASAREZ: Thank you.
SOLOMON: -- on this day that we have learned from his family that he has passed. Jean Casarez live for us there. Jean, thanks so much.
I want to welcome into the conversation, Jim Moret. He is on the phone for us. He was the Chief Correspondent for Inside Edition, he is, and he was Chief Anchor for CNN's coverage of the Simpson story. Jim, good to have you on this day. I'm curious sort of if you can walk us through what that day was like.
VOICE OF JIM MORET, CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, INSIDE EDITION, & COVERED SIMPSON'S 1994 MURDER TRIAL: The day of -- I'm sorry, the day of the verdict, the day of the murders, it was -- the murders actually were 1994, if you can believe that. So, we're coming up in June on the 30th anniversary, and it's hard to believe that it's still so firmly embedded in our consciousness. You have to understand, CNN and Court TV were the only two networks that took this trial gavel to gavel, and when I say gavel to gavel, I mean, we were on the air from 9 a.m. Pacific to four or five, every single day, Monday through Friday, for about nine months during the criminal trial.
And it's all anybody could talk about. In some weird way, it almost ushered in reality TV, in the sense that this was a cultural phenomenon and people were fascinated with murder mysteries after this, and true crime coverage, as they had never been before. Many people -- O.J. Simpson -- it's interesting. I was actually at the dance recital that he attended the same day, early before the murders, where he and his wife were there and she didn't allow him to sit with her family because they had been divorced, and apparently, they were having an argument of some sort.
And I remember seeing him out and about in Brentwood. And he was so magnetic, and such a personality and people loved and revered him. And after all of this, he was a pariah. Even though he was acquitted, many people believed he got away with murder, and that should pay for it. And still, many people defended him and said he was railroaded and he had been framed, which I don't think anybody really believed, to be honest with you, not from an evidentiary standpoint, maybe from an emotional standpoint.
And I think the fact that he was then sentenced in Las Vegas for the heist, that failed heist to retrieve what he believed was his own memorabilia and receive such a stiff penalty, a lot of people thought that was karma coming back, and he was finally getting the justice he deserved, even though you shouldn't take that into account for a separate case. And when he got out, and he reestablished himself online and on social media. I think it angered a lot of people that this pariah, this perceived sociopath could build an audience and espouse his views about pop culture. And a lot of people would listen.
And I think that it's fascinating. We saw the movie not too long ago, People v. O.J. Simpson. And you saw more than 20 years later, people still cared because --
SOLOMON: Yeah.
VOICE OF MORET: -- it's part of American pop culture in some strange way. And it's an unresolved murder. The Goldman family never got the justice. They felt they deserved. [11:30:00]
They never got the civil verdict monies that they were entitled to. So, they felt that O.J. Simpson did in fact get away with murder.
SOLOMON: And Jim, I want to get back to that day in just a moment. But, on this day, I want to ask you sort of, how would you define his legacy? How would you describe his legacy, such a complicated legacy?
VOICE OF MORET: The highest of highs and the lowest of lows. I think he was a complicated, magnetic, charismatic man, who had a dark side. And I think that forever he will be perceived as a double murderer who got away with murder, and also a football great, and it's hard to reconcile both of those. He was an American hero and an American villain.
SOLOMON: And just to remind our viewers who are watching, of course, when we speak of double murders, we are speaking of his ex-wife, O.J.'s ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, and her friend, Ronald Goldman, who were stabbed to death.
Jim, let me ask you, it's interesting you say that -- sort of that wall-to-wall coverage felt almost like the beginning of reality TV. It became a cultural phenomenon. Are you -- were you even surprised at the level of coverage? And I ask, because sometimes, as anchors and reporters, we get these sorts of assignments, and we're like, really? But, were you surprised by sort of how feverishly it was being covered, but also the demand, the public demand?
VOICE OF MORET: I think it was the story of the time. I really do. I just think that it may -- there was a conflict within CNN, should we cover this wall-to-wall? Should we be covering this story that was perceived as part entertainment, part salacious? But, this is all before Monica Lewinsky and all before these other tawdry stories developed. So, I think it ushered in a whole new type of news coverage that many perceived is leaning toward tabloid. But, I think that it was important that we cover this. I think that people cared about it. And I think it showed the American justice system in a way that had not been seen before. So, I really support it.
SOLOMON: And then, Jim, lastly, before I let you go, just talk to us really briefly in terms of covering tis story, the type of racial divides. It really came to the forefront after O.J. Simpson was acquitted.
VOICE OF MORET: I think that this story was perceived along racial lines and I think that the defense, rightly or wrongly, mind that perceived division, and used it to their advantage. And I think that it highlighted a very real split in this country, that a lot of people did not want to see that if you were African-American, you felt like you were treated differently in the justice system. And this was in a sense of payback. And I understand that, and I don't -- I really don't fault people for having their opinions on it, and I think it's understandable.
SOLOMON: Yeah. And then lastly, you just mentioned the FX series. That was years ago. I mean, that wasn't that long ago. Were you surprised at least then? I mean, even then, it sort of took on a new life of its own, a cultural phenomenon. I mean, I remember everyone was talking about. I mean, this is a case and a story that decades later still captivated a nation.
VOICE OF MORET: I was convinced that the story was old news and gone, and it showed me that I was wrong. And I'm always happy to find out how strong people still care, because it's an unsolved mystery for many people. Who is the killer? Well, I think we know who the killer was. But, who was the killer who was never really determined in a court of law? And I think that that mystery, and the questions that remained and the personalities that developed. Anyway, listen, I've got to run because I have to cover another story myself, but --
SOLOMON: Understand.
VOICE OF MORET: -- I truly appreciate talking to you.
SOLOMON: We so appreciate you. Jim Moret, thanks so much. Appreciate the time today.
VOICE OF MORET: Bye, bye.
SOLOMON: All right. We want to recap our breaking news. American football legend O.J. Simpson has died. That's according to a post from his family. Simpson became famous as a football player in the college and pro ranks, then as an anchor and a broadcaster after his career. But, overshadowing all of that, he was accused of the 1994 murders of his former wife and her friend. He was controversially acquitted after high-profile trial. Simpson was 76-years-old.
We want to read the tweet for you from his family. This is how we first learned of his passing, announcing that he actually passed yesterday, on April 10th. I want to read it for you. "On April 10th, our father, Orenthal James Simpson, succumbed to his battle with cancer. He was surrounded by his children and grandchildren. During this time of transition, his family asks that you please respect their wishes for privacy and grace."
[11:35:00]
CNN's Stephanie Elam now looks back at his life.
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ELAM (voice-over): O.J. Simpson soared to fame as number 32 for the Buffalo Bills --
O.J. SIMPSON: I'm sorry for all of it.
ELAM (voice-over): -- and plummeted to infamy as inmate number 1027820 in the Nevada Department of Corrections. In between, Simpson led a life filled with more surreal drama than all of his various film and TV projects combined.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J., are you a suspect? ELAM (voice-over): Mass media experts say Simpson's sensational televised low-speed chase, arrest and murder trial --
COCHRAN: If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.
ELAM (voice-over): -- stand as the first reality show and perhaps the greatest three ring television phenomenon ever. At one point, the world heard O.J. Simpson's ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson say --
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: I don't want to stay on the line. He is going to beat the shit out of me.
ELAM (voice-over): Then later, Simpson was charged with the horrific murders by knife of Nicole and her friend Ron Goldman.
GOLDMAN: Ron and Nicole were butchered.
ELAM (voice-over): The trial made lawyers and even witnesses household names.
ROBERTSON: Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder.
ELAM (voice-over): When the jury freed Simpson, celebration erupted in parts of Los Angeles, but Simpson would never recapture his idol status. Simpson first bringing into the national spotlight as the Heisman Trophy winning running back at the University of Southern California. Then, 11 spectacular years with the NFL vaulted him to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Simpson cashed in on the popularity, becoming a pitchman for Hertz and an actor, becoming well known for the Naked Gun movies.
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ELAM (voice-over): Simpson played a lawman on screen and ran into trouble with the courts off screen. He lost the multi-million dollar wrongful death suit brought by the families of his ex-wife, and Ron Goldman, then moved to Florida. In 2000, Simpson was accused of assault in a road rage incident in Miami. He was found not guilty. In 2005, he was found guilty and fined for stealing satellite television. Then in 2007, in Las Vegas, police arrested him on several felony charges, including kidnaping and armed robbery. In that case, Simpson and armed accomplices raided a hotel room in what he called an attempt to just get back some of his stolen belongings.
O.J. SIMPSON: And I didn't know I was doing anything illegal. I thought I was confronting friends and retrieving my property.
ELAM (voice-over): The Nevada jury never bought his story and instead sent him to prison. He was released on parole nine years later in the dead of night, with no fanfare and no bright future, just the distinction of arguably the greatest rise and fall in pop culture history.
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SOLOMON: And our thanks to Stephanie Elam for that.
We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
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SOLOMON: Welcome back. We want to recap our breaking news. American football legend O.J. Simpson has died. That's according to a post from his family. Simpson first became famous as a football player in the college and pro ranks, then as an anchor and a broadcaster after his career. But, overshadowing all of that is when he was accused of the 1994 murders of his former wife and her friend. He was controversially acquitted after a high-profile trial. Simpson was 76-years-old.
I want to bring in CNN's Jean Casarez, who is following all of this. Jean, you covered his Nevada trial. Just give us a sense sort of today as you're thinking about his life, as you're thinking about his legacy, how would you describe the complicated legacy of O.J. Simpson?
CASAREZ: Well, from what I saw and heard, as I spoke to him in that courtroom, humble. He was just really nice to everybody. He didn't act like he was a football legend. He just was normal. But, even more than normal, he was kind, and he would talk with people. And of course, he was from Southern California. This was a Las Vegas trial. But, when I started talking to him, because I was a correspondent for it, from the network, and when he heard I was from Southern California, and I graduated from USC, where he obviously had won the Heisman Trophy, I remember he was just so excited. And I remember, I said, I went there much after you did and -- because he thought we went there at the same time. No, no. I -- we did not go there at the same time. But, he was just really nice, talking to everyone.
Now, no one thought he was going to be convicted. This was a kidnapping, an armed robbery trial. Those were the charges. But, people sort of thought of it as a joke because it was his property. It had gotten in the hands of somebody else. They owned it at that point, but he wanted some of his statues back and his trophies back and his pictures back. So, he and his golfing buddies decided they were going to go and get that stuff themselves. So, his buddies, and I don't think O.J. even knew this, they had some guns on them. They all go together in force to get it. But, the result was kidnapping. He didn't let the owners of the property leave their property, and armed robbery because those men had guns. And O.J. was like the chief defendant.
They were they were all charged and convicted. But, O.J. was the one. Now, right there, you see him in his jailhouse blues. Well, that's at his sentencing because he was not in jailhouse blues during the enormity of the trial, because he wouldn't be walking around the hallway in his jailhouse blues. Right? But, once he was sentenced, they carted him off. And he was supposed to serve 33 years in prison. We had heard that he was a mentor in prison to young men, to help them take the right road in life. But, he went before the parole board after nine years, and that was on camera. We watched that too. And then, he was released. And I was in Las Vegas when he was released.
And when he was released dark of night, nobody saw him released. But, he had gone to an outline community right there in Las Vegas, a subdivision, and started playing golf, and really led his life quietly for the remainder of that. He would go on Twitter and talk about events happening in the U.S. But, he was -- he remained in low profile, but yet, at the same time, a very, very high-profile person.
SOLOMON: And Jean, it's interesting, because I just spoke with Jim Moret, who was the Chief Anchor for CNN's coverage of the Simpson story, and he talked about that Nevada sentencing and how there was a feeling that perhaps it was karma, I believe was his word, but --
CASAREZ: Yeah.
SOLOMON: -- that really sort of severe sentencing could have been karma, as he put it, for being acquitted of the murders of, and we should say the victims here, his ex-wife, O.J.'s ex-wife, Nicole Brown Simpson, and her friend Ronald Goldman, in 1994. Walk us through sort of that perspective, that there had been this feeling after the Nevada trial, at least amongst some that this was sort of payback for what happened in 1994.
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CASAREZ: That's what a lot of people felt. Absolutely. Now, this was a jury trial in Las Vegas, and you had a judge. The judge did not like him at all. The defense, they couldn't get a ruling in their favor to save their life. So, you felt that in the courtroom, but when there was the verdict, it just appeared as though that it was, you may have been acquitted in California, but in Nevada, we're not going to acquit you. We're going to find you guilty on all charges. And that's what a lot of people believed. Now, technically, I guess you could say beyond a reasonable doubt that people weren't allowed to leave their home that owned his memorabilia, and they -- there were guns on them, and I believe one of the golfing buddies pointed the gun when they were in the room, trying to get their own items back.
But -- so, technically, maybe a conviction was warranted there. But, a lot of people believed that it could have been downgraded to something not as now. Now, that right there, what you're watching right there, that's his parole hearing in Las Vegas in Lovelock. That's when he had served nine years. He really wanted to get out. It goes before the parole board. He makes a statement. They decide, or does he go on to serve the 33 years, and he got out.
SOLOMON: And Jean, let me ask, I was just -- when I was talking to Jim, somehow the conversation turned to that 2016 series of the People v. O.J., and that in itself sort of reignited this conversation. Everybody was talking about that series. And so, I guess my question to you is someone who covers trial so closely, someone who sees the inside of a courtroom more than most, covering these trials, if you have been surprised at just the level of fascination, if you want to call it that, or the level of fame, this horrific story really took on? CASAREZ: Well, how about the mystery also, the mystery? Because what really happened in that scenario to Ron Goldman, to Nicole Brown Simpson, what happened? We know they were slaughtered. They were. They weren't just murdered. They were slaughtered out there. And we don't know the truth. And when you have a mystery, people want to know what really happened. And so, it keeps the story alive. And I think that's what happened in this. And on that what you were just talking about, not too long ago, this was a documentary, right, a lot of people made a lot of money off of it too, because you can take a story like that and you can profit from it. So, that's kept it going.
But originally, having Court TV's cameras in that courtroom, and as Jim Moret said, CNN and Court TV were the ones that carried it back- to-back, nonstop, that allowed this country to really learn this case, see the evidence, see the demeanor of the witnesses. Witnesses became common names that people would repeat. They became celebrities in their own right, rightly or wrongly. And it's just something that I think has stuck in American culture.
SOLOMON: Jean Casarez live for us there. Jean, thanks so much.
CASAREZ: Thank you.
SOLOMON: I want to now bring into the conversation CNN's Sports Correspondent Carolyn Manno. Carolyn, we actually just got a statement from the Pro Football Hall of Fame on the passing of O.J. Simpson. I think we can pull it up. I want to read it for you and just get your perspective. So, this comment coming from president, excuse me, Jim Porter, "O.J. Simpson was the first player to reach a rushing mark many thought could not be attained in a 14-game season when he topped 2,000 yards. His on-field contributions will be preserved in the Hall's archives in Canton, Ohio."
So, Carolyn, what I want to talk about is something that Jean mentioned, and she said that O.J. sort of -- there were two O.J.s, right, there was, what she described in her interactions with him, as charismatic. There was obviously the trial in 1994. There was also the athlete O.J. Talk to me about the athlete O.J.
CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Well, it was fascinating to listen to Jean detail her personal interactions with him and identify what a lot of people have identified, which is these two separate narratives that merged together with this trial and acquittal that forever changed his life in the 90s. And that's why this was so hard for people to understand, I think. At least part of the reason why is because he was a sports icon, a legend, a hero, leading into that trial in the 90s. And people just simply could not believe that he might be capable of something like this.
This is a man whose father was a custodian and a cook. His mother was a nurse's aide. He rose through the ranks. He won the Heisman Trophy. The Heisman Trophy Trust actually just issued a statement too, Rahel, a short time ago, offering their sympathies to his family and mourning his passing. Became a Pro Bowler, a Hall of Famer, and was larger than life. And so, to see this fall from grace after such an illustrious sports career was unfathomable for so many people. [11:50:00]
And when you did have an interaction with him, when you listen to stories from Jean and Christine Brennan, Bob Costas, some of these people that spent a lot of time with him, some intimately, you really understand how affable he was, and how outgoing he was in this personality that allowed him to successfully transition from being a Hall of Fame running back to an actor. And that's really what comes to mind for me in terms of remembering his legacy, is that this is something of an American tragedy on multiple fronts.
SOLOMON: Yeah. And even -- as you sort of outlined there, not just his transition into commentating and anchoring and acting, but also endorsements, you think of the commercials. And so, this was a man who seemed to parlay that charisma, as has been described into multiple avenues.
MANNO: Yeah. And I thought it was interesting listening to Jean say that when she had that one particular interaction with him, after covering one of his trials, he went straight to the golf course upon his release, because he did spend the better part of his life after the trial, at least through my lens, trying to reestablish some of that legitimacy, that credibility that he had when he was at the peak of his professional sports career. And you saw him in 2019 get back on social media, on Twitter, tried to start a new profile where he was going to offer his opinion on sports and fantasy football and politics.
There has always seemingly been this desperation to establish a sort of baseline letter of credibility after his most popular trial in the 90s, where everybody was just completely blown away, that he might be possible -- that it might be possible that he could do something like this. But, it's just -- it's an interesting thing to think about his sports legacy and the way in which those layers factor into how he will ultimately be remembered.
SOLOMON: And then, Carolyn, just for our international audience, sort of if you might just provide a perspective on how American football is. I mean, it's - -I don't know if we're calling baseball our favorite pastime or if it is football, but certainly, I mean, football and American sports are hand in hand.
MANNO: Yeah. Absolutely. Baseball, for our international audience, is commonly referenced as America's pastime. But, those that live here in the United States know full well that the NFL is king and has been for many years now. It is a part of the fabric of who many Americans are. And when you see a man rise through the ranks suddenly throughout a collegiate career, but also professionally into the NFL, and the way in which O.J. sort of endeared himself to so many Buffalo Bills fans, he was drafted with the top overall pick back in the 60s, and it took him a couple of seasons to do that get going. And then, he eventually decided to put together this prolific career with this big personality.
And so many people just truly fell in love with him, and then he went to the Niners after that, and the same sort of thing ensued and he became a sports commentator. Everybody was listening to what he had to say. And so, yes, for those who are watching who might not be familiar with the NFL and how much weight it carries, it carries a tremendous amount of weight here in the United States. And the stars that we have in those leagues, almost transcend humaneness, if that makes sense. I mean, they become immediately placed on the Rushmore of some of the greats in our country in terms of idolizing sports heroes. I mean, it doesn't get bigger than becoming a Hall of Famer in the NFL here, for sure.
SOLOMON: And then, Carolyn, do you remember the white Bronco chase famously covered? I think that was one of the first sort of high-speed chases that we witnessed on the news. Do you remember sort of that experience and just the fascination and the captivation that the country had, as we as we watch this chase?
MANNO: Yeah. I remember it like a lot of Americans. I think my age remember it. At the time, I was one of those who was captivated by it. Listening to Christine Brennan on CNN, domestically, a short time ago, it was interesting to listen to her detail what it was like as a journalist to actually cover it, and working for The Washington Post and being immediately sent to San Francisco and then to LA and -- to have this sort of wide-ranging budget where reporters were just immediately put on this from all across the country and stayed on it from start to finish as the trial unfolded, there was nothing bigger. I remember sitting in front of the TV with my family just being completely captivated by it all and not really having an awareness at the time of all the nuance and the reason why this was so important to the country.
But, mostly just remembering that it was the biggest story at the time is kind of what comes to mind for me being a little bit younger at the time. But, there was nothing like it.
[11:55:00]
And I remember how big it was. And then to have an appreciation for his career, as I got a little bit older and to watch him fall from grace, I just think that there is a lot of sadness around the way that his life ultimately unfolded when you look at the larger view of who he was and his disgrace.
SOLOMON: Yeah. It's so interesting. Carolyn, I also was quite young when that happened, but I do remember even at a young age, the videos, I do remember, just how many people were talking about it. It is really fascinating to think about all of the lenses this story touched, whether it was the racial conversations that were provoked because of this, whether it was just a lens at the country at large.
Carolyn Manno, we're going to leave it here, but thank you so much for coming on and giving us your insight and your perspective here.
All right. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to have more continuing coverage of our breaking news this morning. American football legend O.J. Simpson has died, according to his family. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back.
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