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Biden Speaks With Netanyahu As Massive Protests Erupt Across The U.S.; New Poll Has Trump At 49 Percent And Biden At 43 Percent In Head-To-Head Matchup; Growing Pro-Palestinian Protests On College Campuses; Netanyahu Faces Pressure From Right-Wing Coalition; Loyalty To Trump Could Be A Job Requirement For Many Government Workers; Harvey Weinstein Facing Retrial In New York Criminal Case. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 28, 2024 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:45]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Hi, everyone. I'm Jessica Dean in Washington, and tonight we are following breaking news.

President Biden speaking with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for the first time since signing a $26 billion aid package for Israel. The call coming just a month after the president warned Netanyahu about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza, calling it, quote, "unacceptable."

More than 34,000 Palestinian people have been killed in Gaza since the war began, triggering massive protests here in the U.S. with students at major universities calling for an end to the war.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez is live at the White House.

Priscilla, what are you learning about this call today?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: What we're learning from this White House readout that they touched on multiple issues during this call that happened earlier today between President Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, ranging from recent events like, for example, Israel's strikes back at Iran after Iran had struck Israel. This was something that the White House had been quite tightlipped about when it happened. And Israel had as well.

But in this readout, the president, quote, "reaffirmed his ironclad commitment to Israel's security following the successful defense against Iran's unprecedented missile and drone attack earlier this month." But they also talked about the hostage deal. These have been urgent talks that have been ongoing for months now with U.S. officials traveling overseas to try to reach an agreement and now we know that Secretary of State Antony Blinken will be traveling to Israel in addition to other stops in the Middle East.

This, again, a priority for this White House, which has been trying to secure a deal that would include a six-week ceasefire for the release of hostages, but also to surge humanitarian aid into Gaza. Now, of course, this has been very difficult and challenging and the process is still ongoing. But this was something that also came up during the call after some recent developments last week when the president issued a rare joint statement with other countries calling on Hamas to release the hostages.

Now, in addition to all of this, the president and the prime minister also talked about Israel's potential operation in Rafah. That's an area that has over a million displaced Palestinians. And it is an operation that the White House has been particularly concerned about because they don't see it as an operation that can happen with that many civilians in that region in this moment. And so that also came up during this call. And according to the readout, it says, quote, "The leaders discussed Rafah and the president reiterated his clear position," that position from the United States being that this operation at this point is untenable. So those conversations and discussions that are also ongoing.

But what is clear, Jessica, is that we are at an important moment, especially with those ongoing hostage talks. As the U.S., along with its partners, races to try to reach some type of agreement to secure the release of the remaining hostages, to achieve a temporary ceasefire, and then to also get aid into Gaza as the situation there continues to deteriorate. So this phone call coming after an earlier phone call this month to try to sort out the next steps. Again, we'll see the results of that in the weeks to come.

DEAN: And Priscilla, we have new polling out today on the state of the 2024 race. What does it look like for President Biden?

ALVAREZ: Well, President Biden still seems to be trailing his Republican rival Donald Trump. According to these poll numbers, it says for choice for president among registered voters, Trump 49 percent. That's compared to Biden at 43 percent.

Now, earlier this year, he was about 45 percent. So the numbers are sort of holding steady here. Clearly still a tight race. And of course there are issues that are dogging President Biden. That includes, for example, the handling of the Israel-Hamas war. You look at those numbers 71 percent disapprove of that. I mean, you can see some of it in the protests that we're seeing playing out in college campuses. But also something the president is familiar with with protests at his own events.

So we're seeing those disapproval number still very high, and again, with the handling of Israel-Hamas war. Then also the economy, another top issue for voters. And one of the White House has been trying to make inroads on saying that there's positive indicators, saying that the economy is moving in the right direction.

[18:05:05]

But voters are still not convinced. And the numbers show that. Only 34 percent of voters approve of the president's handling of the economy. That is a particularly concerning number for the Biden campaign because, again, they are trying to convey to voters what this administration has done, how it's helped them out, and then the economy is moving in the right direction. But they still have an argument to make here because, as the polling shows, voters are just still not convinced -- Jessica.

DEAN: Yes, Priscilla Alvarez, for us at the White House. Thanks so much for that reporting.

And joining me now is CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Maria Cardona and CNN political commentator and Republican strategist Alice Stewart.

Great to see both of you. Glad we're in the studio today. Let's just start first. Priscilla kind of laid out those top lines from this new poll that came out this morning with Trump holding an advantage over President Biden, 49 percent to 43 percent, just in the horse race. But 55 percent of Americans saying that Trump had a successful presidency, 39 percent saying Biden's has been a success.

Alice, what are these numbers say to you?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: This is not good for President Biden and look, when you're looking at not just the overall numbers, but breaking it down as Priscilla did, his handling of the economy, Biden is underwater with approval on that. His handling of Israel is certainly under the water. People's opinion of this president with regard to how he's handled and its opinion of the presidency, with Trump at 55 percent, Biden at 39 percent in terms of their success.

And when you look at Biden, look at that number, 61 percent of those we polled say Biden's president -- time in office has been a failure. That is not good. And look, this is a national poll and these are good numbers, and that gives people an idea of where things stand. But you also look at where is the numbers -- where are the numbers with regard to battleground states. President Trump is ahead of Biden on every single battleground state, when you're looking at the polling numbers and that's where it's going to make a difference.

And look, we were all at the Correspondents' Dinner last night and I know that people like to make fun and joke about President Biden and his falling up the stairs or stumbling through his speech, but people are concerned about him falling down on the job when it comes to the economy and Israel and securing the border. That's where he's got a real problem.

DEAN: And what do you think, Maria?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that this poll is one of many six months out from the election. There is a lot of time left. And in fact, if you look at this poll as compared to the others that have come out recently, other highly respected polls, those other polls have the race at a dead heat. A lot of them have Joe Biden up by one to three points. The CBS poll that came out today has Joe Biden up in Michigan and tied in the other battleground states as well.

But look, there's no question that there are challenges here. And the Biden campaign knows that. So they're going to take this poll as they always do and say, we have work to do. They're going to roll up their sleeves. They're going to continue to do what they're doing, continue to remind people all of the great successes and accomplishments that this president has done for the American people on the economic front, on securing democracy, on securing our rights and freedoms.

And I think at the end of day, Jessica, what Americans are going to look at is the contrast. The clear choice between what President Biden has done, what he says he's going to continue to do to make the economy work for everyone, to secure our rights and freedoms, to secure reproductive rights for women, which is one of those issues, including the thoughts about securing our democracy. That doesn't always show up in these polls. We saw this happened in 2022. Everyone predicted a red wave when at the end of the day it was a great night for Democrats because the issues of rights and freedoms and securing our democracy were also front and center.

So I think moving forward, this campaign is going to continue to tell that story and remind people where we were four years ago. Four years ago, our economy was spiraling. We were losing millions of jobs. A million and a half Americans died because Donald Trump denied the science of COVID while he was getting a shot. I think at the end of the day, Jessica, I'm going to bet on Americans' decency and the fact that they are going to choose somebody who has been a lifelong public servant, as opposed to a fraudster, a sex offender, and a criminal defendant who's only in this to stay out of prison.

DEAN: And I know you want to get -- I just also before, because, Alice, I want to give you a say. 70 percent, though, say economic conditions are poor.

STEWART: Exactly. This is not a messaging issue for my dear friend Maria and the Democrats. This is a real issue. This is a perception the American people have about the economy. They go to the grocery store, they go to the gas station, they're trying to buy homes, they're trying to get loans, and they are not liking what they see. They're paying more. And no matter how you say it, and no matter what you think they feel, they feel as though their situation is a lot worse off than it was four years ago.

And that's where they're going to see a change. And look, I clearly see the Democratic messaging point is a vote for Joe Biden is a vote for decency.

[18:10:03]

That is extremely insulting to half of the people in this country who are planning to support someone aside from Joe Biden. And just because Donald Trump might not talk like the rest of the people and might not act like the rest of the people, when you're voting for him it doesn't mean you're not a decent person. I think if you're going to continue that line of dialogue, I think that's a huge mistake because we're talking about half of the people in this country are fed up. Joe Biden might be a nice guy, but this economy is not nice for people in middle America.

CARDONA: But, see, this is why I think that a lot more than half of the country will vote for Joe Biden because I do think that the majority of the American people are decent, and they don't want to see somebody in office that tried to overturn a free and fair election. The split screen that has been happening up until now, Jessica, I don't think is a good thing for Biden. On one side, you have him with a criminal hush money, on the other side, you have his attorney arguing that he should have absolute immunity to do whatever he wants in office.

Decent people, the majority of Americans are going to see that and say, you know what, we deserve better. And so what the Biden campaign is going to continue to do is remind everyone because there is a little bit of amnesia. And let's look at the numbers that actually matter more than polls. The numbers of fundraising. If people really did not support Joe Biden, he wouldn't be raising the massive amounts of money that he is, overshadowing so much on the money that Donald Trump is raising.

The special elections that have been happening since the overturning of Roe v. Wade, if Americans did not trust Democrats more than Republicans, we would not be over-performing and winning in so many of these Republican-held seats. So that is what this campaign is looking at and they're going to continue with that messaging.

STEWART: Look, it appears that saying those that support Donald Trump are not decent people, so decent is the new basket of deplorables for Democrats? I get it.

CARDONA: No, I'm not calling them --

STEWART: That's not a really good way to win over independents and late-decided voters in this election.

CARDONA: No. No one is calling anyone who's voting for Donald Trump indecent. We're calling Donald Trump indecent. Now, whether those people believed Donald Trump, the lies and the deceit that he is sharing with his voters, that's another thing. We're not calling anybody who's voting for him indecent, we're calling him indecent. And if you look at what he has done there is no one who can take a look at that and say he is somebody who is fit for office, especially another four years when he has already said he wants to be a dictator on day one, he wants to take away women's bodily autonomy.

He wants to be the country's retribution. Who talks like that? And that's why I think at the end of the day, the vast majority of Americans are going to choose somebody who actually this country deserves.

DEAN: OK. Let's put a pin in that one for one second because I do want to ask about why the White House Correspondents' Dinner. And we have a quick clip. I know it's a little long, but let's play it and then you can go have quick thought.

Oh, we don't have it.

CARDONA: We'll save us some time.

DEAN: What did you think last night, Alice? And then Maria, what do you think?

STEWART: And I thought it was good. Look, again, policy issues aside, I thought President Biden was funny when he when he said, look, you know, we're very different. My vice president supports me. I'll give him a laugh on that one. And I think he, you know, he was funny. It was brief, but it was funny. I think, you know, entertainment for the night what was good. But again, when you're trying to be an equal opportunity comedian and sort of criticize and poke fun at both sides, you can't ignore the real issue out there is that you can make fun of President Biden for his age in some of his stumbling down the stairs. But the real issue maybe not for people in that room and the press corps, but people in middle America, they're less concerned about him falling down the stairs at Air Force One, but falling down on the job. And that's something that they need to wake up to.

DEAN: And Maria, a quick thought from you.

CARDONA: I think the dinner was fantastic. President Biden has great comedic timing and we saw that last night. The comedian, Colin Jost, was very funny as well. But Alice is right. There were some serious issues that were talked about. Safety for journalists. The fact that our democracy and our decency matters when you have an opponent for Joe Biden, who talks about the press as being the enemy of the people. That is another knock on him in terms of not being the type of person who deserves another four years in the Oval Office.

STEWART: And I think the big takeaway from the night is America needs journalists and hats off to the Press Corps.

CARDONA: Amen. That's right.

DEAN: Guys, all right. Well, it's always good to have both of you here. Thanks so much. Maria Cardona and Alice Stewart, we appreciate it. And you can check out their podcast, "Hot Mics from Left to Right."

CARDONA: Where we have more of this.

DEAN: More of this. All right, thanks, guys.

Still ahead, tensions running high at UCLA as a group supporting Israel faces off with a group supporting Palestinians at campus protests. We are tracking those dueling demonstrations.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:19:41]

DEAN: College campuses across the country are again playing host to student protests demonstrating against Israel's war on Gaza. Hundreds of protesters were arrested yesterday as police cleared demonstrators and their encampment on a number of campuses nationwide.

Camila Bernal is with us now. She is live on the campus of UCLA in Los Angeles.

And Camila, we heard reports earlier you were reporting that there had been some altercations between protesters and counter-protesters there on campus. What can you tell us?

[18:20:11]

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jessica, we absolutely saw the violence, the altercations, people pushing and yelling, and things getting violent both verbally and physically throughout the day. But finally, police officers with campus police essentially moved all of the protesters out of this area so they use a lot of these security officers to essentially be the first line of defense so that the police officers were not engaging with a lot of those protesters.

So instead, these security officers with some of their bicycles pushed those protesters out and then you had campus police officers in their riot gear following behind so that they did not directly interfere with those protesters. So here at UCLA we did not see any arrests. We did not see police involvement throughout the day, but we did see a lot of passion on both sides of this issue.

I saw the violence both from the people who were here to support the Jewish students and from the pro-Palestinians and the people supporting them. Both of them were essentially yelling at each other. Some points I saw people pushing some of these security guards. There was definitely a lot said throughout the day and it was essentially impossible to get these people to agree or to listen to each other.

Now right behind me, behind this metal barrier, it's hard to see because we're not allowed to go back there, but that's the encampment. Those are the students that are saying here permanently for as long as they say or as long as it takes for them to engage with the university. They say they want divestment. They say they want essentially clarity into where the university is investing that money.

And they say they're going to continue to stay here at the university until they made progress on that. So the people at the encampment, they actually were not allowed to come into this area where the protesters were earlier. So the people that were here were essentially just supporting either the Jewish students or the Palestinian students who are inside in that encampments. So again, things are quiet right now, but we did speak to people on both sides of the issue. Take a listen to what they told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AHMAD HASAN, PALESTINIAN YOUTH MOVEMENT: The community here is just here to support the students who are -- have been keeping this encampment up for days now. They've been applying pressure to the university and the university has not even come to meet their demands yet. So the community is here to make sure that the students' voices get heard on their campus, and that they disclose their financial investments and divest from war, from genocide, and from weapons manufacturers. ELI TSIVES, FRESHMAN, UCLA: We are for peace. I can tell you that

right now. We have come here to demand for the release of our hostages. We are coming here to show them that we're not afraid. The only people that are calling for aggression are the people hiding behind those masks because they are too afraid to show their face. Do you see anyone here with a mask on this side of the protest? No, because we stand with what we believe in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: So a lot of divisions. And I asked people on both sides, you know, and told them, we saw the violence, we people pushing, we saw people getting physically violent. And nobody really wanted to address that. They kept saying, you know, we're here to support the students, we're here to get our point across. So it was difficult to get people to actually address the violence, but we did see that today.

Of course, as I mentioned, the university essentially shutting this down and now everybody sort of dispersed and gone back home -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Camila Bernal for us on the campus at UCLA. Thanks so much for that reporting.

Still ahead today, hostage talks between Israel and Hamas. We're looking at the main stumbling blocks that remain and whether a hostage deal could stop a massive ground operation in Rafah.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:28:13]

DEAN: Earlier today, in a critical conversation with Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, the White House says President Biden, quote, "reiterated his clear position on a potential invasion of Rafah." Biden signaled the U.S. cannot support one without a credible plan for Gaza's civilians. But journalists Elliott Gotkine tells us that's not easing pressure inside Israel for Netanyahu to move ahead with the operation.

ELLIOTT GOTKINE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jessica, even before President Biden and Prime Minister Netanyahu got on the phone on Sunday, there were calls from within his own right-wing coalition from hard-right ministers, Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben-Gvir to suggest that if this Rafah operation, this muted ground operation in Rafah doesn't go ahead come what may that they would effectively leave the governing coalition.

Now, Israel hasn't said that it would show this operation, this planned operation. Quite the contrary, what we're hearing from officials is that even if there is a temporary ceasefire that sees a number of Israeli hostages who were abducted on October 7th freed from captivity, that the Rafah operation would still go ahead and would simply be postponed. Now at the same time as this the other big development as the hostage

talks remain ongoing, mediated by Egypt, the main stumbling block, according to Israel and the United States, is Hamas' continued insistence that Israel agree to a complete cessation of hostilities and a withdrawal of all of its forces from the Gaza Strip in order to do a deal, something that Prime Minister Netanyahu has in the past described as a delusional demand. Nevertheless, there are still hopes that a deal can be done.

Now, we also saw hostage videos, more videos of hostages released by Hamas over the weekend. This time of Israeli-American hostage Keith Siegel and Israeli Omri Miran. Now what these videos showed us is first of all that they are alive. This is the first proof of life of these two men that we've seen since they were abducted as part of Hamas' terrorist attacks of October 7th.

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It also shows I think Hamas' desire to get the Israeli public, to put pressure on the Israeli government to come to the table, and do the deal that Hamas is offering, but also to put pressure on the United States because two of the three hostages that have appeared in Hamas hostage videos over the past couple of weeks have been U.S. citizens. The hope therefore being that the U.S. administration will also put pressure on the Netanyahu government to do a deal.

The other thing we're watching this weekend is an announcement by World Central Kitchen, seven of its aid workers were killed in an Israeli airstrike in Gaza early this month. World Central Kitchen saying that it's going to resume aid deliveries on Monday because it says the humanitarian situation in the Gaza Strip remains so dire -- Jessica.

DEAN: Elliott Gotkine, thanks so much for that.

And a lot to discuss here. We've got CNN military analysts and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Colonel, thanks so much for being with us on this Sunday afternoon. I just want to kind of lay everything out and it's going to take just a second, but just so we're all on the same page, we know as sources telling CNN that a majority of the call between President Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu today did focus on the hostage deal, and the White House readout of the call said about any Israeli operation in Rafah that the leaders discussed and the president reiterated his position.

We know that the Biden ministration has told Israel they want to see a plan that includes protecting civilians, but an Israeli official is now telling CNN that Israel will continue its invasion preparations even if there is a hostage deal. And then we have this today from National Security Council Communications adviser John Kirby.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISER: Well, look, I think, again, we have to have a better understanding from the Israelis about what they want to do. As a matter of fact, we've had several staff talks with them. We intend to do that more. They have assured us that they won't go into Rafah until we've had a chance to really share our perspectives and our concerns with them. So we'll see where that goes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: So, Colonel, knowing all of that, how do you see this playing out in front from this particular moment?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Jessica, good to be with you. There are certainly elements here that I think really indicate that both sides are kind of in a very intransigent space here, both the Israelis in the form of the Netanyahu government as well as the U.S. And the reason for that is that the U.S. is looking at this as a not only a public relations disaster, but a humanitarian disaster.

And they're trying to avoid getting themselves wrapped into this kind of an operation that could result in tens of thousands more people, more civilians being killed. On the Israeli side, though, you have people who are looking at this from the government perspective, especially on the right wing, and they want military action with Prime Minister Netanyahu saying that he wanted to destroy Hamas.

He is I think basically bent on some kind of an operation in Rafah and that is of course going to really test the relationship between the U.S. and Israel.

DEAN: And you're right. He said he wants to destroy Hamas. That that would be victory. What does that look like? Is that attainable? Is that something that can actually be done?

LEIGHTON: I don't think so. And yes, you can go in and you can take out the leadership. The problem with that is there's another person waiting in the wings to take over that particular role and whether it's the head of Hamas or one of the subordinate divisions of Hamas. So those kinds of things are going to happen. And the real problem that you have is this is an ideology that has really percolated throughout a large portion of the Gaza population.

Now, not everyone in Gaza is supportive of Hamas, but the fact of the matter is, is that there is a large portion that is and that large portion could very well dictate things and basically fuel the intransigence on -- between Hamas and Israel, so you've got a lot of people in this particular mix who are really creating a big problem because they're not willing to budge from their negotiating positions.

DEAN: And so militarily, we have an Israeli official that's telling CNN that preparations for a Rafah ground invasion are going to continue to move forward even if there is a hostage deal. Militarily how do you balance those two things both, again, an invasion into Rafah, which the IDF and Israeli government believes is part and parcel with eliminating Hamas, but also their desire to get these hostages back? And can you do both at once or are they going to have to choose?

LEIGHTON: Yes, I see usually in most cases like this, Jessica, they would have to choose one way or the other. But one of the unique things about this particular situation is that in some ways when the Israelis threatened to move into a place like Rafah, they were actually putting pressure on Hamas. So in some cases, we've had the Hamas release some of the hostages earlier, you know, a few months ago. And that I think was the result of a lot of Israeli pressure.

[18:35:02]

So what's going to happen -- military pressure that is. So what's going to happen is the Israelis took a lesson from that. And they're going to say, OK, we can continue to do this, we can continue to put pressure on Hamas and we will do so until basically there's no other way. But before Hamas want to release the hostages, that it's a long, drawn-out process, and I would say it's not an efficient process as well.

DEAN: All right, Colonel Cedric Leighton, great to have you. Thanks so much.

LEIGHTON: You bet, Jessica.

DEAN: Still ahead, former president Donald Trump is planning for a possible second term in office and we're looking at his plans to overhaul the federal government.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:21]

DEAN: Former president Donald Trump is laying the groundwork for what a second term in office might look like. He's specifically talking about his plans to overhaul the federal government and eliminate what he calls the deep state.

CNN senior investigative correspondent Kyung Lah tells us how big of an impact his promises could have on the federal government.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR U.S. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): At every 2024 campaign rally for former president Donald Trump, he makes a vow.

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will demolish the deep state.

We will demolish the deep state.

We will demolish the deep state.

LAH: The deep state is his named enemy, federal workers who Trump believes conspire against him. TRUMP: Here's my plan to dismantle the deep state and reclaim our

democracy from Washington corruption.

LAH: Trump's 10-point plan in his campaign Web site outlines sweeping changes he wants to make to government agencies.

TRUMP: Faceless bureaucrats will never again be able to target and persecute conservatives, Christians or the left's political enemies.

LAH: The end result would erase federal worker protections that have been in place for more than 140 years, eliminate entire departments and consolidate power around Trump.

To understand the impact of what could happen in Trump's second term, you only have to look at his first.

TRUMP: I will immediately reissue my 2020 executive order restoring the president's authority to remove rogue bureaucrats.

LAH: That executive order he signed just before losing the 2020 election turns government jobs into political appointments, giving the Trump administration the power to fire employees at will and replace them with loyalists, making them according to this federal report subject to removal for partisan political reasons.

JACQUELINE SIMON, POLICY DIRECTOR, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES: Do you want people doing scientific research at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission who don't have the qualifications to perform that kind of work? Their only qualification is an allegiance to the Trump agenda.

LAH: Jacqueline Simon represents a large government employee union. She says the expertise of government workers can't be replaced on a political whim.

SIMON: Once that kind of stuff is politicized, let's say you deny a disability claim based on somebody's politics.

LAH: How do you feel as you think about what the federal workforce could look like?

SIMON: It's very disheartening and it's scary. I think that there will be a massive exodus of competence.

ROBERT SHEA, SENIOR OMB OFFICIAL FOR PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I do think that this is in part an effort to weaponize the bureaucracy.

LAH: Lifelong Republican Robert Shea was a political appointee under President George W. Bush. He believes politics should be kept out of the federal workforce no matter who is in the White House.

SHEA: I would expect to see wide swaths of civil servants removed from their positions and replaced with people more loyal to President Trump.

LAH: Do you read this as a loyalty test? SHEA: I do.

LAH (voice over): These documents obtained by the National Treasury Employees Union show the Trump administration plan to cut deep. One agency proposing almost 70 percent of its positions should become political appointments by claiming they deal with policy.

IT specialists, data management, budget, information support manager.

LAH (voice over): We read the jobs list to former Obama-era OMB official Kenneth Baer.

So why would you make all these positions political appointees?

KENNETH BAER, SENIOR OMB OFFICIAL FOR PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Because that's what they want to destroy the independent objective civil service, that's why. I think it would really fundamentally weaken the American government but also American democracy if we got rid of that career staff.

TRUMP: The deep state must and will be brought to heel.

LAH: But that's only part of what Trump appears to have in store.

TRUMP: Move parts of the sprawling federal bureaucracy to new locations outside the Washington swamp to places filled with patriots who love America.

LAH: He's also promising to relocate federal agencies out of D.C., something he did in his first term.

CATHERINE GREENE, FORMER SENIOR ECONOMIST, USDA: I was devastated.

LAH: The Trump administration targeted two agencies at the USDA, moving hundreds of jobs including Catherine Greene's out of Washington to Kansas City. The official reason was to create significant savings for taxpayers, improve USDA's ability to attract and retain highly qualified personnel and attract a diverse staff. But the exact opposite happened. In fact, one government study showed that the administration excluded critical costs in its estimate for moving agencies.

And after two years, the workforce was made up mostly of new employees with less experience and the number of black employees declined to about a third of what it once was.

GREENE: The goal was to uproot the agency in such a way that most people would have to move on and most people did.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[18:45:08]

LAH (on-camera): The Biden administration is trying to slow down any action Trump could take against federal employees if he wins the 2024 election by finalizing a new rule that says civil service protections can't be taken away from employees unless they voluntarily give them away. Experts tell us while that might put a pause on Trump's plans, it's essentially putting in a speed bump, ultimately, Trump could do what he is planning.

The only permanent fix would be legislation passed by Congress. '

Kyung Lah, CNN, Los Angeles.

DEAN: Kyung, thank you.

And still ahead Harvey Weinstein hospitalized just days after his 2020 New York rape conviction was overturned. What's next for him and his accusers after that ruling?

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:50:31]

DEAN: Disgraced Hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein is in New York hospital tonight just days after one of his rape convictions was thrown out. It is not clear why he's in the hospital. On Thursday, the New York Appeals Court ruled Weinstein's trial judge allowed prosecutors too much leeway in witness testimony. He was sentenced to 23 years in prison back in 2020. He is unlikely to be released because he was separately convicted of rape and assault in California.

Attorney and legal affairs commentator Areva Martin is joining us now to talk more about this.

Areva, nice to see you. Thanks for making time.

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Jessica.

DEAN: Good to see you. So can we just start first, help us, understand why Weinstein's conviction was overturned here?

MARTIN: So essentially what the appeals court did, Jessica, is determined back the trial court error made a significant error in allowing prior bad acts witnesses to testify. These were women who said they had been sexually harassed or assaulted by Harvey Weinstein, but their cases were not the subject of the prosecution. And what the appellate court said is that these witnesses' testimony was more prejudicial than probative, and because the judge allowed that testimony in that the trial was unfair to Harvey Weinstein.

The judge also said that the -- the appellate court, I should say, also said that the judge made it clear to the Harvey Weinstein's defense team that if he took the stand and testify that the judge was going to allow prosecutors to bring in all of the allegations that essentially have been made against him. Many dating back past the statute of limitations and the appellate court said that was also unfair and may have prevented Harvey Weinstein from taking the stand in his own defense.

DEAN: And so what does this mean for prosecutors as they rethink if and when they want to retry this case?

MARTIN: Well, we've already heard from the Manhattan district attorney who happens to be a different district attorney than the one that actually move forward with this case. But Alvin Bragg in Manhattan has said he absolutely positively will retry Harvey Weinstein. But the big question is going to be, will he attempt to have prior bad act witnesses testify? Will he attempt to have fewer of those witnesses or will he be prohibited from the trial judge from using any of those witnesses?

And if so, might that mean a different outcome in terms of how the jury interprets the testimony provided by both the victims and any testimony provided by Harvey Weinstein's team.

DEAN: And he's also, just to remind everyone, been convicted in Californias as we just mentioned for similar charges. That sentence was 16 years. I would assume that conviction is going to keep him in prison as he awaits a potential retrial in New York.

MARTIN: Absolutely, Jessica, I don't think he's going to see the light of day. He's going to remain incarcerated in New York as the district attorney has said. He is going to move forward with trying the case. And as you indicated, he's facing 16 years in California. However, we should note that he -- his legal team has indicated they are also appealing the conviction in California.

The ruling by the appellate court devastating in some ways, obviously to the Me Too Movement. You know, we had seen this seismic shift in the way these cases were prosecuted, the way victims were finally starting to be both heard and believed. And many believed this ruling by this appellate court could have, you know, a negative impact on women, could be chilling to those women, particularly who are often afraid to come forward and to tell their stories.

They could also, you know, see themselves and we can see many victims are being impacted in a negative way by this ruling.

DEAN: And before I let you go, too, is there are any precedent or similar case like this that's been overturned? I kind of think about Bill Cosby's case. Is that similar?

MARTIN: Very similar. And if you read the dissent that was written by one of the judges on the New York Court of Appeals, she talked about the fact that the New York Court of Appeal has a history of old returning cases of sexual assault case is very similar to the Weinstein case. The reality is, we still have a long way to go in this country with regards to how sexual assault cases are prosecuted, how evidence is presented in a courtroom for these cases, and how women are both listened to, believed and treated in these cases.

DEAN: Yes. Areva Martin, thanks so much for joining us.

[18:55:02]

MARTIN: Thanks, Jessica.

DEAN: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: There's always more to the story beneath the surface. CNN's Original Series, "HOW IT REALLY HAPPENED WITH JESSE L. MARTIN" returns to CNN with a special two-hour premiere on the "Titanic." It's tonight at 9:00 Eastern and Pacific.

And new today after a highly decorated career, one of the all-time greats in women's basketball is hanging up her sneakers. Candace Parker says she's retiring from the WNBA after 16 seasons.