CNN Insight

Chile's New President

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICARDO LAGOS, CHILEAN PRESIDENT-ELECT (through translator): The 20th century is leaving with pain that has not yet been resolved between us. I want to begin by resolving that pain between all Chileans.

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RALPH WENGE, INSIGHT (voice-over): The first socialist since Salvador Allende, but the political base of Chile's Ricardo Lagos is far removed from the leftist roots of his socialist party. The new president takes office, promising jobs, economic growth and close cooperation with the right-wing opposition.

(on camera): Hello, and welcome to INSIGHT. I'm Ralph Wenge. Jonathan Mann is away.

Ricardo Lagos is a member of Socialists International. And like some other world leaders who belong to that group, he has embraced ideas of the new left - the concept of a market economy with a human face, a compassionate touch to a capitalist world.

But the right and the left in Chile have shown signs of setting aside their differences and working for the common good. In a country still adapting from years of military rule under General Augusto Pinochet, such gestures are more than just symbolic. On our program today -- Chile's new president and the many challenges he faces.

And we begin with reporter Stephen Smith in Santiago.

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STEPHEN SMITH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The triumphal rally for president-elect Lagos, perhaps a belated reward for standing up to Augusto Pinochet during his dictatorship. The "P" word was almost unmentionable in polite society during the campaign. No one had told this crowd.

(CROWD CHANTING)

"Trial for Pinochet," they yelled. Chile's new leader told them he'd do all he could to bring the General home, but he wouldn't interfere with the legal process.

Lagos talked about building an inclusive society, a nod to Tony Blair whom he admires, but also recognition that the center-left coalition had won by the narrowest of margins in a country which has known great upheaval.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the best to happen for Chile. I'm really happy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is incredible for Chile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very interesting. It's the second socialist to become a president.

SMITH: An old man who apparently passes his days with doctors and priests was the specter at this feast. The national stadium was a killing field in the Pinochet years. It had been transformed into a polling station - democracy being done and being seen to be done. Soldiers who were meant to be seeing order were told to go away.

Joaquin Lavin, the right-winger who once gave economics advice to Pinochet, conceded defeat with dignity, and a city which had been quiet and dry all weekend threw a great street party.

(on camera): It's no accident that the supporters of Ricardo Lagos have chosen this park in Santiago for this jubilant drive-by. This is where his rival for presidency, Joaquin Lavin, was due to hold a victory party tonight. That's now off.

(voice-over): Dismay in the Lavin camp, offering a shoulder to cry on was Pinochet's former interior minister, who had a warning for the new government.

CARLOS CASARES, FORMER INTERIOR MINISTER: This community will have to negotiate. It is not possible today that the political parties of the government, the (INAUDIBLE) coalition, they cannot approve anything. No, they will have to talk about it. They will have to negotiate every decision. And when you have to negotiate, when you have (INAUDIBLE).

SMITH: Isabel Allende's father was the last socialist in the presidential palace, murdered in Pinochet's coup of 1973.

ISABEL ALLENDE, SALVADOR ALLENDE'S DAUGHTER (through translator): I think things have come full circle in Chile. Thirty years after the dictatorship, after all the horrors, people have voted for the socialist candidate Ricardo Lagos.

SMITH: Playing ping pong with a former drug user, the incoming president today singled out social issues as his priority, though the return of Pinochet could be his first test. A country familiar with political violence and clandestine disappearances is pleased by the most mundane of things the day after an election, and everyone's here to see it.

Stephen Smith, Channel 4 News, Santiago, Chile.

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WENGE: And joining us now from Santiago is journalist Maggie Cayon. Maggie, is the atmosphere one of optimism there right now?

MAGGIE CAYON, JOURNALIST: Yes, it is, actually. People are very optimistic that the new government will keep the economy and the country as stable as it is right now. The festivities, of course, have finished. It's Monday, and it's a normal business day here. But they are optimistic that the new government will keep them in a stable position. Ralph?

WENGE: Well, along with the election has been the story of Augusto Pinochet. What do the people, and I mean the citizens there, feel? Do they really care about whether he is returned to Santiago?

CAYON: Well, you know, it's an issue that it's a double-edged sword, if you would like to call it that. It's something that -- it opens up a lot of wounds. It's more an issue right now of things -- that something has to be done. He just can't go unsolved.

Of course, there are people that just believe let a sleeping dog lie, and there's people that believe that something has -- that he has to be brought to justice and he does have to pay for what he has done.

As you know, during the elections, it was something that was not really brought into the limelight. The candidates were very good about keeping it behind, so he wouldn't become an issue. And a lot of people would just say, he's not a candidate, don't even bring him into this election.

WENGE: There are a lot of things on Mr. Lagos' table right now. What would you say is the priority? What is the number-one thing he has to tackle?

CAYON: Well, he has to move his agenda from a political one to a social one. People are very concerned about the local issues that concern them. One of them is unemployment, the education, health and the crime - specifically, the crime.

WENGE: Maggie Cayon in...

CAYON: That was an issue a lot of -- excuse me.

WENGE: Go ahead. Finish up what you were saying.

CAYON: That crime is also a very serious issue. This was an issue for the women, the women voters, and that was a majority that would tip the scale one way or the other in the elections. And those are the things he has to concentrate on now.

WENGE: Maggie Cayon in Santiago.

Have to take a short break right now. But coming up -- the market agenda of a socialist president. We analyze what lies ahead for Chile's economy and politics.

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WENGE (voice-over): From celebrated super achiever to a nation mired in recession, Chile was Latin America's hottest economy of the 1990s. At the dawn of the millennium, its economic indicators are less than stellar.

(on camera): Welcome back.

Chile's troubles began in 1998 with the downturn in global financial markets. The El Nino weather phenomenon dramatically reduced the fishing catch, and then came a steep fall in the price of copper, its number-one export. The economy contracted by 1 percent last year, and unemployment hovers around 10 percent.

The president-elect will certainly have his hands full. Manuel Santelices is with the Chilean magazine Cosas and knows Ricardo Lagos well. If you will, sir, tell us about the man.

MANUEL SANTELICES, CHILEAN JOURNALIST: Well, Ricardo Lagos is a very serious man. That's the first characteristic come up thinking about him. He's a man who takes serious life. Takes serious his challenge for the country, and he takes politics very seriously, too.

That not necessarily make him the best candidate, but I'm sure is going to make him like a very good president in that sense. He sometimes is perceived as arrogant because, according to people who know him much better than I do anyway, said he is shy. He also has the manners and the attitude and the sayings of a teacher. He was a teacher. He is a professor of economics.

He lived a big part of his exile here in the United States being a teacher at the University of North Carolina. And again, I think seriousness is the best way to define him.

WENGE: And we can add one thing, certainly not a fan of General Pinochet. Correct?

SANTELICES: He was one of the biggest opponents of Pinochet beginning in the early '80s. And he became very famous in the country because he, in a, you know, controversial TV show in Chile, he went to the camera with his finger, you know, like reprimand Pinochet -- something at the time nobody - nobody ever has done before. And it was a huge scandal.

And since that moment, he became one of the most important figures in the country. He is a man of words. He can talk very well, and he is not afraid to say what he wants to say.

WENGE: This was a pretty close election, considering what was at stake. Any message there about either the left or the right?

SANTELICES: I think this election, we -- all Chileans should see it very optimistically because it change completely the political arena. I mean, we -- this is a huge step toward the future. Both candidates decided during the campaign to distance themselves from the past, and yesterday in his first speech as elected president, Ricardo Lagos said that he don't forget the past, but his eyes are set on the future.

The same thing he has been saying for a long time now, respecting, you know, Pinochet and his regime, everything is in the hands of the justice now. This is not going to be a political issue in the country, though, of course, has political effects. But it's going to end in the hands of the justice.

Now, his role will be to prevent (ph) that justice is made in the sense that the judicial system should have the freedom to take the case in their hands.

WENGE: Certainly one crucial issue is whether Mr. Lagos and the right wing will be able to work together.

SANTELICES: Exactly. That's another challenge for his presidency. This is a complete new field, political field for Chile. I mean, the last two presidents elected for the same coalition that Mr. Lagos belonged, they were elected with a huge landslide of votes.

This time is the first time in nearly 50 years that the right wing has like votes, just I mentioned, and it was a very close election, as you said. Mr. Lagos started with a huge following in the coalition, but also with three very important opponents -- first, the church. He is agnostic. He's pro-divorce, a law that we don't have in Chile. Second, the businessman who still has some kind of distrust over the socialist because of remembering of the socialist government of Mr. Salvador Allende. And third, also the army because he was one of the opponents of Pinochet.

In the process of the election, he not only won, you know, like the majority of the voters but also he was allowed to broach (ph) this distrust. Nobody in Chile thinks that whoever candidate was going to win, the country was going to be in disaster area.

WENGE: Certain...

SANTELICES: The country will continue and will be -- everybody is feeling that way.

WENGE: Certainly one of the important issues facing Mr. Lagos, as we mentioned just a short while ago, will be dealing with the economy. What do you know about his background in dealing with economic issues? Is he up to this task?

SANTELICES: Mr. Lagos is a professor of economy, is a new kind of socialist for our country, a new breed of socialist. In his visits to New York, he give important signs, having meetings with people like David Rockefeller or George Soros. And that create some kind of confidence that his views, the role of the private sector and the free market are widely secure in his hands.

He -- he was minister of public works, and he was minister of (INAUDIBLE). And in both ministers, he worked very, very closely with the private sector.

WENGE: One final question. We only have a moment left.

SANTELICES: Yes.

WENGE: We want something that people are not really talking about right now. Next year, parliamentary elections -- is this going to be a big factor here?

SANTELICES: It's going to be a big factor because Lagos will need a strong support. He is going to have to be able to articulate some support enough for to pass his laws. So it's going to be a very, very definitory election next year.

WENGE: Manuel Santelices with the Chilean magazine Cosas, thank you very much for joining us.

SANTELICES: Thank you for inviting me.

WENGE: And in a moment -- the shadow of the General. What Chile is doing as Augusto Pinochet prepares for a possible return home. We'll be right back.

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WENGE (voice-over): A military hospital in the heart of the Chilean capital, Santiago. This is where the former military ruler, Augusto Pinochet, will be treated when and if he returns home.

(on camera): Britain's home secretary has set a Tuesday deadline for opinions on his decision to not extradite Pinochet to Spain. The British say Pinochet is too weak to stand trial on human rights charges. But a Spanish magistrate pursuing the case has asked for new medical examination to determine whether Pinochet is mentally fit to face trial.

In Santiago, Salvador Allende's daughter said she hoped the man who overthrew her father could be tried even if he got back home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ISABEL ALLENDE (through translator): We have to face justice in the courts of Chile, whose 90-year-old laws do not excuse us from doing otherwise. Chile has the right to show that justice runs through its system and that we all respect the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WENGE: Claudio Cordone is with Amnesty International and is the human rights group's project manager in the Pinochet case. Mr. Cordone, we know that the Spanish government has requested a new group -- series of tests by doctors of the prosecuting judge's choice. Now what is the legal precedent of this?

CLAUDIO CORDONE, AMNESTY INTERNATIONL: Well, I think it's just an expected request. It's just a matter of a fair process. You see, at the moment, what we have is a secret medical report. We don't know how the tests have been conducted, and we really can't assess the conclusions of the medical experts.

And throughout this case, both sides have had ample opportunity to argue their case. So we think it is only fair that Spain and the other countries that have requested extradition be allowed to see this medical evidence to challenge it if they so wish. They may not decide to do so.

And then, we think that it is important that a judge takes the final decision as to whether Senator Pinochet is fit or unfit to undergo further legal proceedings before Jack Straw, the UK home secretary, takes his final decision on extradition.

WENGE: So who makes the ultimate decision regarding what happens to Pinochet? Is it the British home secretary or the British courts?

CORDONE: The very final decision is with the home secretary. However, at the moment, the case was going through the courts, and it's been a bit of a strange development because at any time, Senator Pinochet could have gone to court to raise his medical situation, and he hasn't done so.

And we think that should have been the first place where his medical situation, which he's perfectly entitled to raise, should have been discussed, examined before Jack Straw takes his final decision on extradition.

WENGE: Let's be realistic here for a moment. What are the chances of Pinochet being returned to Chile?

CORDONE: It's not a matter of chances or not. If he's unfit to undergo further legal proceedings or he's unfit to stand trial, then of course, he should not be tried. He should be released. He has human rights just like you and I.

The point is we want this process to continue to be as fair as possible, as we think it has been so far. And at the moment, it's been a secret medical examination with no one having a chance to really see whether it should be challenged or not. And until that happens, this case risks ending up with a sour note in a sense, when it has been conducted through the courts with plaintive (ph) issues being raised with both sides having plenty of opportunity to make their case. And we think that it should have continued like that.

WENGE: Now the Spanish foreign ministry has indicated that if Britain decides to send him back to Chile, there will be no appeal. And the government there is citing the fact that the relations between Chile and Spain are too important. So we're getting into the political issue.

CORDONE: Sure. Of course, and one of our attempts throughout this case has been to keep this case within the realm of human rights, within the realm of the judiciary and taking it away as far as possible from politics. It's true. Politics exercise pressures.

But I think we've seen states, including the UK, take a bold stand, uphold international law, despite the fact that there's an amnesty in Chile protecting prosecution against people accused of crimes like Pinochet, despite political pressures, and go ahead with the process. And we think it should continue.

WENGE: If Pinochet is returned to Chile, do you think he'll stand trial there?

CORDONE: Our understanding is that in Chile still there are serious obstacles to be able to bring Pinochet or anybody else that may have committed similar crimes to trial. We have the amnesty that covers crimes between '73 and '78. For Senator Pinochet in particular, there's the issue of his parliamentary immunity.

And we understand that if cases manage to overcome these obstacles, military courts, which, in our opinion, don't have a tradition of fairness, are likely to get hold of these cases. So we would really hope that these obstacles be removed, that this new administration has the opportunity to remove them.

Because it's not just a matter of Senator Pinochet, it's a matter of other people who have been involved -- allegedly involved in those crimes during the early years and later on in the coup, and there are still thousands of relatives or families of victims or survivors who are demanding justice. And you cannot go forward in the future unless you deal with this issue.

WENGE: And that brings to question something I was going to ask you anyway, and that is if he does not stand trial, what does this say? What impact does it have on other former dictators, let's say, and what happens to them? Does this set a precedent then?

CORDONE: Well, if he does not stand trial because he's unfit to stand trial, then I think this is also victory for human rights. However, regardless of how this case ends, I think that there's hardly a week, sometimes a day that passes by that we don't hear about other people in current or former position of responsibility who are hesitating about traveling or who, when they travel, victims and people who have suffered at their hands allegedly have taken case against them.

We had the case of the former leader of Ethiopia who went to South Africa only very recently, a few days ago, and there - again, there was an attempt to have South Africa uphold their international obligation and investigate him since he's wanted for trial in Ethiopia.

There are several other cases that come up, and I think this is a healthy sign in a sense that people who may have committed some of the worst crimes under international law are feeling very uncomfortable.

WENGE: And we only have a moment. I must ask you this. To the relatives of those who were killed and tortured under the Pinochet rule, what are their options in case he is sent back to Chile?

CORDONE: Well, their options, again if he's still fit to stand trial, is to push for the obstacles, the legal obstacles that are still there to be removed so that the courts proper and fair system can take place, and finally we may be able to shed light on the many cases that are still unresolved of people that have suffered serious abuses for so long.

WENGE: Claudio Cordone of Amnesty International. Thank you, sir, for joining us.

CORDONE: Thank you.

WENGE: One final thought about how much Chile, Ricardo Lagos and his socialist party have changed in the space of three decades. In recent months, the socialist party has begun reviewing Salvador Allende's years in office, including his more radical policies.

At the time of the coup that overthrew Allende, Lagos himself was poised to become the ambassador to the Soviet Union. Today, he acknowledges that the party made many economic and political mistakes. "We put the interests of the party before the interest of the people." Those were the words of Lagos just last month.

And a measure of Chilean democracy could be seen at Santiago's national stadium, the very place where, after the 1973 coup, Chilean security forces gathered thousands of Allende supporters to be tortured and executed.

But this weekend, the stadium merely saw thousands of voters casting their ballots for peaceful change.

That's it for INSIGHT. I'm Ralph Wenge. Stay tuned. The news continues in a moment.

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