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Larry King Live

Maria Shriver Discusses Her Bestselling Book

Aired April 26, 2000 - 9:00 p.m. ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, she says no job is too low when you're aiming for the top. NBC News Maria Shriver tells us about the lessons she's learned out here in the real world, next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Maria Shriver has a new book out. It is a common term, I guess, run away bestseller, but it is. The book is "Ten Things I Wish I'd Known Before I Went out Into the Real World." It will be No. 2 a week from Sunday on the "New York Times" bestseller list, that's No. 2. It will be No. 3, we think, tomorrow in "USA Today's" best-seller list, and they're compiled in different stores, so you know it's running away.

And we welcome Maria Shriver back to LARRY KING LIVE. She's been with us before. It's always nice to see her, and she'll be with us for the full hour, and we'll be including the phone calls.

And where did this idea come from?

MARIA SHRIVER, NBC NEWS: It came from a commencement address that I gave at Holy Cross College two years ago, and I had hemmed and hawed about giving this speech because I worried that I didn't have anything important to say or something that everybody would be interested in, and then I started thinking back to when I graduated from Georgetown University, way back, as my daughter says, in the olden days, and I started thinking what could someone have told me that made a difference in my life? So I started coming up with maybe this, maybe that, and pretty soon, I had a list of 10 thing. I gave the address. They aired it on C-SPAN and published it, and all of a sudden, I started getting all of these offers publishers and people starting calling up asking me for copies, and Holy Cross started printing up pamphlets, because they started getting a lot of requests. And lots of my friends urged me to turn it into a book, and lo and behold, there it is, a little book.

KING: Are you surprised at how well it's doing? It's a thin book.

SHRIVER: Yes, it's a thin little book. But you know, I wanted it to be this size. I was adamant that it be the kind of book you can throw in your bag, that you could pick up, put down, put in your bathroom, read, you know, 10, 15 minutes a day, come back to it, because so many of the women and the men that I know have no time, and So I wanted to write a book that wasn't going to take, you know, two weeks to get through and would actually help them in day-to-day lives and might make them feel not so alone when they were going through things.

KING: Most people forget what was said at their college graduation.


KING: Forget even who spoke, because they are too excited.


KING: What do you think connected in this?

SHRIVER: Well, I think it was, you know, I don't know, people said to me it was funny, people said it resonated with them, and you know, I think people pick it up, and they heard it and different thing apply to different people. A lot of guys came up to me and said I really liked the part when you talked about, to women, saying don't expect a man to make your life, go out and find your own happiness, make your own way. Women came up to me and said I'm so glad you talked about the superwoman myth, and that I don't have to do it all right at the same time. I'm glad you talked about having children and how that affects your career. And I think so often, all of us are so interested in putting up a perfect front, saying we're successful, we can do it all, we can manage, that those of us struggling -- and everybody is struggling -- are embarrassed to say it. I see it in parents in school. No one wants to say, you know what, we're struggling with the homework, and so when I raise the hand and say I think the homework is too hard or it's too much, then all of a sudden, all of the hands go up, yes, me too, me too, but nobody wants to kind of say it, because we all want to look perfect, act perfect, have our acts together.

KING: Book is for women?

SHRIVER: No, it's for men and women. And I wrote it originally with the title "10 Thing I Wish I Knew When I Graduated," and they gave it, at Warner Books, to lots of people in the department, and they came out and said, change it to "The Real World," because it works for people who are 30, works for people who are 40, 50, and it's only been out a couple weeks, and most of the people coming up to me are women and men in my age group, saying gosh, I wish I had known that, oh gosh, that's such a relief to talk about.

KING: One of the producers mentioned to me, she wish she'd read this, and it should be given to every college student.

SHRIVER: That's nice.

KING: That's a nice thing to say. Unsolicited, by the way.

SHRIVER: Oh, thank you, Larry.

KING: But one might say, fairly, you're a woman of privilege. SHRIVER: Absolutely. Your mother is Eunice Shriver Kennedy. She's the sister of Ted Kennedy, the sister of Robert Kennedy, the sister of President John F. Kennedy. Your father was...

SHRIVER: And accomplished woman in her own right.

KING: Founder of the Special Olympics.

SHRIVER: Your father is Sarge Shriver, who started the Peace Corps.

KING: Right.

SHRIVER: An incredible man.

KING: Ran the merchandise mart.

SHRIVER: Ran for president, ran for vice president.

KING: You're married ton one of the world's famous actors, Arnold Schwarzenegger. Who are you to give advice to the working girl?

SHRIVER: It's not me giving advice; it's me talking about, you know, my road into the real world. I never saw it as like, you know, do what I did, because I think everybody creates their own path, and sure, I've had advantages that other people haven't. But all of us have struggles and all of us go through a lot of the same thing. And so it's not me saying, oh look at me, here's my advice; it's me saying, these are the things that you're going to confront, whether you're rich, poor, been educated, not been educated. Those of us who choose to be parents are going to confront the same things. Those of us who choose to work and be parents are confronting the same thing. Those of us who go out and want to make our way up the ladder. It doesn't matter whether you're rich or poor, you've got to earn your respect, you've got to earn your way.

So it's -- I always felt that when I was going through a lot of these thing -- when I was failing in my job, when I was starting over time and time again -- that I was alone in doing this, so I wrote this book so people would understand that these are chapters in our lives, these are hurdles; their not roadblocks, they don't end the road, so to speak.

When I failed at the "CBS Morning News," I thought my career was over. Nobody talked about failure. When I couldn't work it out with my children and my anchor jobs back east, I thought I was the first person to not pull it together.

KING: Did you have an edge going in, do you think, to get that first job?

SHRIVER: Well, I went into a trainee program that Westinghouse Broadcasting had started for kids coming out of college who were interested in television, and I applied to it just like anybody else. I got it. I got in. You've have to ask them. KING: Your name was not a break.

SHRIVER: I'm sure my name has always, you know, been a help for some people and it's been a detriment to others. You know, not everybody loves the Kennedys.

KING: It also gets in the door, but it's the door harder when you get in?

SHRIVER: Well, you know, I don't know, I've never done it any other way. So I tried not to concentrate on my name. I've tried to really put blinders and make my own name. I've never wanted to live off of my parents' name, I've never wanted to live off of my uncle's name, my grandfather's name. I've wanted to respect their achievements, but I was really adamant about making my own way. I don't want to live off my husband. I don't want to live off of other people's achievements. I want my life to matter, and that's what I try to treat my kids as well.

KING: We'll go over those 10 things, and run them down and have her elaborate.

Maria Shriver is the contributing anchor for NBC's "Dateline." Her previous book, "What's Heaven?" is on the "New York Times" bestseller list, too. She also has, by the way, a special coming up for NBC called "Of Human Bondage," and we'll can ask about that as well. We'll take your phone calls as well. She's with us for the full hour, Maria Shriver.

Don't go away.


KING: By the way, Maria's book is published by Warner Books, which is a division of this company, but that's not the reason she's on; she's on because it's pretty terrific, and so is she.

All right, the 10 points you list as "Ten Things I Wish I'd Known Before I Went Out Into the Real World" and had to discover them. No. 1 you list: pinpoint your passion. You're assuming everyone has a passion?

SHRIVER: I think people do have passion. I think a lot of people don't know what it is or how to find it, and then if they have it, they're often embarrassed to pursue it. And my passion I found out to be television news, and I was reluctant to talk to people about it or to admit it, because I thought I should do what family did. Maybe I should go into public service, maybe I should go into community service, and I think a lot of people follow their heritage, follow their parents, follow what they think is expected of them, and I'm a big believer that you should sit down, really talk to yourself, find out what makes you happy if no one was paying you any money. If it's to work in a day care center, go do that. If it's to start a preschool. It's it's to run a restaurant, work as a chef, work in gardens. Whatever it is, don't worry what other people think about your choice as a profession, because it's your life, and everybody else will give you advice all the time. Do this. Do that. Go with your gut.

KING: Do you think people have passions and don't go with it?

SHRIVER: Oh, I know. Because I know so many people -- when I gave this address, so many people came up to me, parents, and said, I wish I had that, someone had talked to me, I didn't follow my passion, and they 40, 45, they turn around, and you know, go, I ruined it, I didn't do what I wanted to do, and I think that's why you often see people in their 40s changing their entire careers and going back to what they wish they'd done in their 20s. I think that's great. I'm a big believer in reinventing yourself. It used to be, you'd say to people, what do you want to be when you grow up? And you came up with one thing. Now I think the great thing we're living longer, we're healthier, women have all of these possibilities, as do men. You can reinvent yourself and do different things. You don't have to do just one thing anymore.

KING: No. 2 is no job is beneath you. Take anything to get in, right?

SHRIVER: Absolutely. Know where you want to go. I'm a big believer in kind of setting-yourself goals.

KING: What do you do?

SHRIVER: In this training program, I worked at KYW Television in Philadelphia, and I worked on the assignment desk, I made the coffee, I logged everybody's tapes, I did whatever anybody asked me to. I just kind of roamed around. I worked the days no one wanted to work. I, you know, stuck myself on to reporters who were going out into the field, and said, you know, can I come with you? Can I watch? Can I take down your tape? And not a lot of reporters like to go in log in all their own tapes and log in the time code, and I'd like to do that.

KING: Frankly, did you have an advantage because of the way you looked?

SHRIVER: I'm sure, certainly, television has helped. But looking, you know, I think halfway decent, you know, helps when you go on air, but I didn't go on air for seven years. I worked behind the camera first.

KING: And enjoyed it?

SHRIVER: Liked it a lot.

KING: Were you always driven to be on the air?

SHRIVER: No, I think In the beginning, I was just driven to be respected and to be good at what I was doing. I thought that, you know, I probably in the back of my mind wanted to go on the air and didn't have the guts to do it, because I thought people would criticize me and say, you know, you're a Twinkie or pretty face, you don't know what you're doing. So I thought that if I learned how to write well, if I learned what happened in the editing room, if I knew how to take care of myself when I went out in the field, then I could make that transition, because I wouldn't be somebody who didn't know what was going on. So I waited. I Took my time. I went to Baltimore. I worked my way up until I felt confident in my other skills and try to go on camera.

KING: Was your big break...

SHRIVER: Certainly, I went to work for "PM Magazine."

KING: Westinghouse.

SHRIVER: Which I had worked as a producer for "Evening Magazine," then it got syndicated, and I worked as their national correspondent.

KING: In Baltimore?

SHRIVER: Out here, but traveling all over the world, and I loved it. I worked for two years doing that. And they gave me a shot, certainly that I think bigger shows would not have given me. And then CBS hired me to work in their bureau, and that was my entry into the network news business.

KING: No. 3: Who you work for and with is as important as what you do.


KING: What do you mean.

SHRIVER: What I mean by that is I went to work for CBS News, but as many big jobs, they bring you in and then let you go, and you either sink or swim, and if someone doesn't come along and help you, and nurture you or take an interest in you, you'll fail, I firmly believe. And when I went to work at CBS News, a woman named Roberta Hollander, who was a veteran news producer, was assigned to work with me, and she hated the notion of working with me. She thought it was a real, like, you know, demotion for her. And slowly she and I became the best of friends, and I learned really everything I know about television news from her. I worked for CBS News, but day in, day out, I was learning from her. She taught me to you to write. She edited my scripts. She screamed at me. She yelled at me. She pushed me. She taught me. She taught what was ethical, what was not, what were the choices I would confront. She made me strive to be the best I could be.

The brass at CBS News, they weren't interested in me, they never focused on me at all. You know, they hire you and then they never call you or have any interest in you. She worked with me.

KING: Any time on this path, did you ever think of quitting?

SHRIVER: Many times, I still do.

KING: Really?

SHRIVER: Oh yes. And I think, according to different reasons, that I thought of quitting way back when, when I started, I was determined to prove a lot of people wrong who had said that I wouldn't survive, who said they wasn't -- you know, that I shouldn't be there, and also, it was also I wanted to prove it to myself. It was my passion, and I wanted to be good at it. I wanted something I could look back on and say, this is mine.

KING: Was it advantageous to you that you were single during this period?

SHRIVER: Oh yes.

KING: You had movement, right?

SHRIVER: I had movement, and I had -- and even though I was going out with my husband, he understood that I was driven and that I wanted to pursue that side of myself, and find out what I was capable of doing. But I think that it was a big advantage, because I moved a lot, and I worked weekends, I worked holidays, and there was nobody saying to me, you know, come on home, get dinner ready or the kids are waiting or whatever.

KING: Or have a baby.

No. 4 is behavior has consequences. That seems simple?

SHRIVER: I don't think it is. I think that's one of the biggest issues facing young people as they go out into the work world and it faces us I've think who've been in the profession a long time. What line will you cross? How far will you go? What can you and can you not live with? And I think that people, you know, are in such a rush now to get to the top that we don't often think about who we cross getting there, what we will or will not do. And so I wanted to put this into these 10 things, because I was, first and foremost, speaking to young people. And I said, you know, your behavior has consequences. You cannot blame it on the way you were brought up, on somebody else. Now you've got to go out and take responsibility. So if someone says to you, go over there and do this, and you know it's wrong and you do it anyway, you're responsibility, and I wanted it to be a point also that your reputation -- in this day and age, people's reputations go so quickly that if you ruin your reputation, it's almost impossible to get it back.

So I'm a big believer in having time to reflect on what you are doing, reflect on choices, because you, and you alone, are responsible for your choices.

KING: Risk takers often make it in this business, so you're not talking about going on the air and taking a chance?

SHRIVER: No, I'm a big believer in taking risks and walking into your fear. I'm just talking about knowing what's right, and what's wrong, what's ethical and what's not, what's honest, what isn't, and making your choices based your own on gut and your own ethics.

KING: An important book. We'll pick right up with No. 5, which is be willing to fail. We'll talk about that. The new book is "Ten Things I Wish I'd Known Before I Went Out Into the Real World."

We'll be including your phone calls for Maria Shriver of NBC. Don't go away.


KING: None of these 10 things you knew at the time, right? This is in retrospect?

SHRIVER: No. I didn't think about them, exactly.

KING: You're helping people not through your own work coverage, but looking...

SHRIVER: My own mistakes or my own path.

KING: All right. No. 5 is be willing to fail. You need a place to fail and you've got to be willing to fail.

SHRIVER: And you have to go through it, as painful as it is. When I got out of college, I had no conception of failing. I was just assuming that I was going on and be this incredible success at whatever I did. I was smart, I was driven, and nobody really talked about being a failure, and so when I went to CBS, I -- after being there two years, I got the job as the anchor of the "CBS Morning News" with Forrest Sawyer, and I thought, well, you know, I've just arrived.

KING: You were hold? You were young, right?

SHRIVER: I was 29, and I was feeling just terrific about everything, and you know, a year later, I was fired, and both of us were fired. The whole show fired, canceled, kaput, and this is a show that had been going...


SHRIVER: That's true, and I knew that, but I also thought, well, it's going to change, Forrest and I are going to change. And even though we did extremely well, it wasn't -- quote -- well enough.

But when I was fired from that, I was so humiliated, I was devastated. It was a public experience as well. And I was sure that I was the first person that had ever failed, and I thought who would fire a failed anchorwoman? You know, certainly no other network. This would be a disaster.

KING: So what did do you?

SHRIVER: Well, I moved back to California. I had no job. You know, CBS said you can back and work in the bureau, and I was so furious at CBS, I was like, I'm not going to work for you, now or never, but no. And so I came home and I moped and I felt bad, and then I started talk to other people who had also failed, and they said, I've done this, and I've gone on to have an incredible career, or I've had that experience, I've learned from it, and pretty soon...

KING: Failure helps.

SHRIVER: Failure helps. It's such a liberator. After I failed now, it's kind of -- I go into a show and someone says you're going to cancel, I go, been there, done that. If someone says, but you might fail, I go, that's OK, I know what that feels like. I don't like it, but I also know I can come out the other side.

KING: What was the next job you got?

SHRIVER: I went to NBC. It was to be a reporter on one of their numerous primetime shows that they were trying to get out before the success of "Dateline".

KING: You've been with them since?

SHRIVER: I've been with them 14 years. And I wouldn't be working in television today had they not accommodated my growing family.

KING: So in a sense, that was a break.

SHRIVER: It was a big break to go there. I had gotten a lot jobs to be local anchors, but I wanted to be a reporter, and I wanted to work in primetime and I wanted to do long stories.

KING: So losing CBS, in a sense, was a break, brought you back to California.

SHRIVER: Oh, it was a godsend to me to be fired from that job. I think it probably saved my marriage, because I had been commuting in my marriage.

KING: As an aside, why do you think that network has such difficulty in the morning? I mean, you've been part of it, you viewed it. Do you have any thoughts?

SHRIVER: I think people were impatient. They certainly were impatient with Forest and I. We were doing extremely well, and they just said, you know what, it's over, we don't think it's well enough, it's not good enough, and we want you out, and I never understood that, because I think habits take a long time to break. People aren't accustomed to...

KING: You think Bryant is getting a raw deal then, in a sense?

SHRIVER: I think you know, Bryant is -- I've worked with Bryant, and I think he is one of the best journalists working. I think he is -- nobody better at live television, and I happen to get along extremely well with him. I think, you know, it will take time. He hasn't been in the job that long. And I think they have a lot of other issue. I'm not there. I'm not part of it day to day.

KING: You've worked for Steve Freeman, too, haven't you?

SHRIVER: I've worked -- yes, he hired me to do "Sunday Today," when they started the weekend today, and he was the executive producer of that show, and we started that show, and he was the producer of it the whole time -- almost the whole time I was there.

KING: Do you think they'll stay with it?

SHRIVER: The "Morning News" over there? I don't know, you'd have to ask CBS.

KING: We'll be back with more of Maria. These are little asides folks, two people in the business chatting. Maria Shriver's book, it's No. 2 on The New York Times list a week from Sunday. We'll be right back.


KING: Certainly the most interesting of the 10 things she'd wish she'd known is No. 6.

SHRIVER: What's that?

KING: Entitled "Superwoman is dead, and Superman may be taking Viagra."

SHRIVER: Yes. Did you see I wrote there in the top, but not my husband, nowhere near my house, Viagra. But anyway, my husband always wants me to mention that.

KING: I'm sure Arnold is very concerned about this.

SHRIVER: You know, the whole -- you know, I had come out of this generation of woman who fought for so many things for my generation, and so I was certainly taught and told you can have it all, you can go for the brass ring, you can have an incredible marriage, you can be a great lover, you can look hot, you can have great kids and you can become head of the company. And so when you're out there, and you're trying to do all of these things and you're not doing it, you think, what's the matter with me? I certainly did, and I know so many other women who have felt the same way. And I realized, you know what, I can't do all this. You know, this is a myth. And if we set ourselves up for failure, we'll feel like a failure.

So that was a really important thing I wanted to say to young women coming along, don't try to do it all at once. As my mother, and it was a great piece of advice, she said life is a marathon, it is not a sprint. Do these things over your lifetime, so that when you're 70 or 80 and you look back, you can look back at different things you did. And so for me, my 20s were dedicated to being, you know, career- driven. That's where I was going, that's what I was focused on. My 30s, I started to have children, changed my whole life and changed the way I looked at my job, the way I looked at myself as a woman.

Now here I am in early 40s trying to be a writer, and you know, that's a whole another thing I'm doing, and I'm also trying to keep my foot in television. But I've cut my job way, way down, I've given up the two anchor jobs that I had, I gave up as soon as I started having kids.

KING: Without missing it? SHRIVER: Oh no, I missed it. Yes I did, absolutely. That was a tough thing for me. I was commuting. I had Sunday's "Today Show." I was anchoring the weekend news, and they were in New York, and I lived in Los Angeles. And I had been commuting every weekend for four years, and then I had this child, and I kept thinking, you know, I'm going to come right back to work, I'm not miss a beat and everything, and then I was dragging this kid back and forth across the country, and I said, you know, this isn't working, and I went to the head of NBC, who was Michael Gartner at the time, and I said, you know, can you move the show? And he said, no, I can't move the show? And I said, well, could you move one of the shows? And he said, no, can't move one of the shows. And I said, well, I can't do this. And he said, well, you have to choose. And I said, well, then I have to choose my family. And he said, you know, thank you, and the jobs were filled in, like, 30 seconds. But tit was a great lesson to me once again about choices, and it turned out to be the right choice for me long-term. But I gave it up with a lot of reluctance.

KING: A lot of it this gut intuition, do you think?

SHRIVER: I'm a big believer in following your gut. Every time I've listened to my gut, I've done OK, and every time I've gone against -- even though people have told me. I've made a mistake.

KING: Chapter seven, I guess, is "Children do Change Your Career, Not to Mention Your Entire Life."

SHRIVER: Huge, I think. You know, so many young people come up to me and say, how do you combine your work with your children and your marriage? And I think that's the No. 1 question I get in letters, the No. 1 question I get from people, young women, women my age, and also I think this applies to men as well, because it shouldn't be just women who are changing their careers for children; men should, too. And I think it takes a partnership between yourself and your employer. I'm not naive enough to think I could do any of this if NBC didn't meet me halfway. They've stood by me as I have cut back and cut back, as I have added child after child.

KING: You've got what? Five?

SHRIVER: I've got four.

KING: Is that it?

SHRIVER: That's it, closed shop, finished. But they stood by me, they've worked with me to find stories. I work at "Dateline." And I work and do several hours. They let me substitute.

KING: You do specials.

SHRIVER: I do lots of different specials, and my executive producer Neil Shapiro at "Dateline" works to find stories that are West Coast related. The entire company has been supportive of my desire to be a mother.

KING: You're children are paramount, though? SHRIVER: They're the key.

KING: So what you're saying is -- supposing someone doesn't want children?

SHRIVER: Well, then that's their prerogative, that's their choice, God bless.

KING: They still can use this book well, right?

SHRIVER: Oh absolutely. This is one chapter, and I think that, you know, if you don't want children, that's your choice, and that's your gut, go with it. But you will be surrounded by people who are making choices in their daily lives, whether they need to go to doctor's appointment, whether they might need to go home to a sick child. You're going to be surrounded by people who are making choices for children.

KING: You say marriage in No. 8 is a hell of a lot of hard work. Why should it be? Why shouldn't it be pleasure?

SHRIVER: Well, it just is, Because you have two people who don't always come from the same point of view.

KING: Like their strangers.

SHRIVER: And they're coming together. You got to learn how to compromise, sometimes to keep your mouth shut. You've got to learn to how to compromise. You've got to learn sometimes how to keep your mouth shut, you've got to learn how to act on forgiveness, you've got to learn how to give and take, and you've got to pay attention to your marriage, just like you pay attention to anything else.

KING: Is it harder, do you think, in your case, being both high profile?

SHRIVER: I don't know any other case, because I haven't been married...

KING: What do you think?

SHRIVER: I don't know. I don't think about other people's. I have enough time thinking about my own marriage, to stay on top of that. So, but I ...

KING: But when a marriage is public, that has to be extra pressure?

SHRIVER: No, I think there's a lot of pressures in any marriage. There are financial pressures. They're family pressures, that, you know, a lot of people have, you know, parents living with them, they have sick children, they have no money, they're working two, three jobs. There is pressure in all kinds of marriages, and I think that, you know, communication, expressing your love for one another, expressing your understanding, that's key. I think that's there's a lot of pressures that I don't have in my marriage that other people do have.

KING: We'll take a break, be back, go over the other two, and take your phone call. The book is "Ten Things I Wish I'd Known Before I Went Out into the Real World." The author is Maria Shriver. The publisher is Warner Books.

Don't go away.



KING: What happened with Maria Shriver?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Well, we were walking down this very narrow area in order to give the speech of the night of Super Tuesday, and she jumped out in front of my wife and bumped into my daughter and yelled, how do you feel? And I said, please, please, let us alone, I think is somewhat along the line. I did say please.

I just thought that it was not appropriate the way that she approached it.

But look, I'm sure that Ms. Shriver was trying to do her job, and I hope she understood that I was trying to go down at a very difficult moment. And I obviously didn't -- hope she appreciated I didn't appreciate one of my children being bumped into.


KING: You bumped into him?

SHRIVER: I didn't, but I appreciate his understanding that I was doing my job.

KING: You didn't bump into anybody?

SHRIVER: I didn't bump into anybody. And -- but I understand that that was a difficult night for him, and I was there doing my job. I was at the end of a corridor, where, you know, the senator and his family came walking down. So I didn't jump out from a bush or I didn't jump out from a wall and go, woo, look, here I am.

I have great sensitivity for that experience of what he was going through that night. I've been there. My dad ran for vice president and lost in a very big humiliation landslide. My dad ran for president and lost. And I can tell you what those nights -- both of those nights felt like, like they happened to me yesterday. So I know what those nights are like.

But I'm also there doing a job. I'm assigned to cover that night, that candidate. And -- but I have no -- you know, I think a lot of people made a huge deal out of that incident.

KING: They sure did. SHRIVER: They did. And I think that that's because there had been so much discussion about his supposed temper. But I had no hard feelings toward him and I was glad...

KING: Was he ill-tempered toward you?

SHRIVER: Well, I think he wasn't happy about it. But I don't -- I don't judge him on that. I don't think he's -- you know, it's not the first time I've been yelled at by somebody and I doubt it will be the last. And I hope and I -- you know, he's gone on, on other shows and said, you know, that he understood that I was doing my job, and I respected that. And I have great respect for him and what he's trying to do and what he went out to do.

And so I have no hard feelings, and I hope it's mutual.

KING: Case closed.

SHRIVER: Case closed.

KING: All right. But you might do it again?

SHRIVER: Well, I'd love to interview him again.

KING: No. 9 on our "10 things I'd Wish I'd Known": Don't expect anyone else to support you financially.

SHRIVER: Easy for me to say.

KING: Easy for you to say.

SHRIVER: Absolutely. But important, I think, for particularly women who often think, I think, and are raised to think that they're not complete unless they're in a marriage, unless, you know -- and I think woman come along thinking that a man is going to support them, perhaps less today than certainly when I was getting out of college. But when I was getting out, nobody talked about business for women. They didn't talk about being financially capable yourself and knowing a lot about your money. And I'm a big believer in making sure that you know about money, and particularly as a woman, because even though you're married to someone who's making money or you may have come from a family of money, that can go like that, and you better know about money. You better know how to take care of yourself.

KING: No guarantees in life.

SHRIVER: No guarantees in life, because it changes overnight.

KING: Good advice. And your 10th thing is laughter.

SHRIVER: Big believer in that. One of the big reasons I like journalism and still like it is that the people in it are funny. They have a way of looking at really tough situations in a funny way. I laughed a lot at work. I still laugh a lot at work. It was an important ingredient in my marriage. My husband has a great sense of humor. KING: He does?

SHRIVER: Yes, and he's funny. He has a great way of looking at situations even if he's getting "you know what" kicked out of him. He laughs about it. He can find a way to turn it around. And he's helped me with that.

And my family, you know, it's a great old Irish-Catholic family. There's lots of laughs. It's really important. We like to rib each other.

And I'm a big believer that laughter can cut, you know, all of the drama and the pressure in your life, because life gets you down. Your job kicks you around. And if you don't have somebody that can help to you laugh, I think you're in for a tough life.

KING: You're a writer now. Are you going to do other books?

SHRIVER: I'm going to do other books. I want to do more children's books. So "What's Heaven?" was terrific. It was really a very moving experience to do that book, and I want to do books for kids and families that deal with taboo subjects.

I've just written another one that's about kids with disabilities, because that's a big issue, you know, kids with disabilities being mainstreamed and other kids being afraid to reach out.

KING: When does that come out?

SHRIVER: Next spring I hope. So I hope I'll be back.


KING: Of course you'll be back.

SHRIVER: No, I'm only kidding.

KING: What's the toughest kind of story for you to cover?

SHRIVER: When someone's in real trouble, when they've lost someone in their family, when there's been a death. I often don't pick up the phone, I won't make the call, because I just feel...

KING: It's the hardest.

SHRIVER: ... like I don't want to go there.

KING: "How do you feel?"

SHRIVER: And so, that's tough for me.

KING: What do you make of the Elian story?

SHRIVER: I think it's had lots of twists and turns. It's been surprising, and I wish him privacy. I wish him peace, and I hope he'll be able to live the life that he deserves to live.

KING: Have we overdone it?

SHRIVER: I think there's certainly been a lot. I saw that it's had more stories about that case than any other story ever. And I think that is certainly overblown. I think that, you know, a lot of people are saying to me, enough with you guys with this story. But clearly, there must be some interest for us to keep returning to it. I haven't been covering it. I haven't been in Florida or and I haven't been assigned to it. But I think it's a -- I think it's a story that's made us -- a lot of different people think about a lot of different issues.

It's brought up the issues of fatherhood and fathers' rights. It's brought up, you know, immigration issues and how different countries are treated in different ways. And it's brought up the whole Cuban-American issues.

So I think that there's a lot to go around here.

KING: Do you agree it would be a very different story if the father died and the mother were alive?

SHRIVER: Well, that's what everybody says, and that's probably true, I think so, because I think that fathers still struggle for a lot of rights today. And I think it's better than it used to be, but I don't think fathers have the respect that they deserve. I think fathers need to be an integral part in children's lives, and that's why in this book I talk about what -- fathers, don't just expect the wife to change her career for the kids, don't just expect she's the one going to the teacher conference, she's the one who should cut down the career, she's the one taking the leave. You, too, need to be involved, should be involved, because it makes a huge difference for a man to be involved in a girl's life and in a boy's life.

KING: We'll take a break and go to phone calls. By the way, you once postponed an interview with Fidel Castro because of a child, right?

SHRIVER: I did. I know. I did.

KING: To be with a child?

SHRIVER: To be with my daughter on her first day of school. That's a funny story. I write it in the book.

KING: That's gutsy. And speaking of that -- we'll go to your calls. Here is Maria eventually doing what she postponed, talking to Fidel. Watch.


SHRIVER: Mr. President, as you look back at the Cuban missile crisis, was it a wise decision for you to accept the missiles?

FIDEL CASTRO, PRESIDENT OF CUBA (through translator): I believe that it was an unavoidable duty. When you feel that you have to do your duty, you cannot analyze things from the point of view of more advantages or less advantages.

SHRIVER: So if you had to do it over again, you wouldn't accept the missiles?

CASTRO (through translator): With the information I have now?


CASTRO (through translator): No, I would not have accepted the missiles. With the experience of the Soviets' hesitation, I would not have accepted the missiles.



KING: This is a major bestseller: It's Maria Shriver's new book, we're going to go to your phone calls. Cleveland, Ohio, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.


CALLER: Thank you for taking my.

Hi, Maria.

SHRIVER: Hi. How are you?

CALLER: Good. Do you think the media has taken sides in the Elian case, and were you surprised that Gloria Estefan and Andy Garcia took sides instead of remaining neutral?

SHRIVER: Well, I don't know why they went -- this is when they went outside the house. Gloria Estefan, both of them are Cuban and she lives there. So I wasn't surprised by that.

And regarding whether the media has taken sides, I don't think so. I think they've reported it objectively. That's our job. And I think it depends where you come to on the story. Oftentimes people will think that a story is biased or leaning one way or not if they have a specific opinion about it themselves.

So I think that there has been a lot of stories, but the coverage that I've seen I don't think was biased.

And I think that, you know, Andy Garcia and Gloria Estefan, you have to do what you feel is important to do.

KING: Have you ever in your news career ever heard a news director say, let's go out and get this guy? Never heard that?

SHRIVER: Not in so many words, but I have -- I have had people say, you know, we should go out and pursue this angle. KING: Oh, an angle?

SHRIVER: Yes, which is the same thing.

KING: To Fernandina Beach, Florida, hello.

CALLER: Hello. Hi, Mr. King.

KING: Hi. Go ahead.

CALLER: Ms. Shriver, hi.


CALLER: I wanted to know how you -- how you found, Maria, coming from the Kennedy background and married to who you are, how did you come about finding just Maria?

SHRIVER: That's a great question.

CALLER: And also, one last thing, I really wish you would cover up on the Elian Gonzalez case. I really do. But...

KING: No, she hasn't done it all. And I think the media is, we're on an Elian break now.

SHRIVER: Yes, that's what this is today.

KING: Last night and the rest of week and until something breaks...

SHRIVER: Oh, you're on an Elian break.

KING: ... we're going to cool it.

SHRIVER: Oh, OK. Good. Good for you.

KING: It's enough already.

SHRIVER: Enough already.

I liked that question, because I think that's been a struggle for me and it's been a journey for me, and what I've discovered, that it's also a journey for almost everybody else, that all of us come with different issues.

KING: What's the answer for you?

SHRIVER: For me I found myself really through my work and finding what was passion for me, what made me happy. I'm still trying to find Maria all the time. I haven't found her. I've found her now to be a mother. That's first and foremost the thing that makes me feel best about me -- as a wife. I feel like I'm a better daughter, sister today.

I'm more sure about what I think about different issue. I'm more self-confident today.

But certainly when I was graduating from college, I didn't know who Maria was and I hadn't found Maria. And it was hard coming from this big, you know, family, where people expected a lot from you. And I knew that if I messed up, that that would be a mark. So I wanted to take my time and try to find out who I was.

KING: Did you have to tiptoe? I mean, you have a thing -- I mean, you're in an unusual position. The -- with the death of John Jr., as an example. You danced through two surfaces here. You're a journalist.

SHRIVER: Not on that story.

KING: You're a family member. On that story, journalism is gone, right?

SHRIVER: Nobody even calls me.

KING: No, they know that, right?


KING: But there are dances you have to dance through...

SHRIVER: Oh absolutely. But I think...

KING: Not just death of someone, politics.

SHRIVER: Well, I...

KING: You've got nephews who are going to run for office.


KING: Uncles.

SHRIVER: But I'm on the other side of the rope, and I don't cover my family. I think that no one has ever asked me to go and do a story on my uncle or cousin.

KING: Nor would you, could you?

SHRIVER: Nor would I or could I, because I couldn't be objective and I couldn't be a good journalist.

KING: Cote St. Luc, Quebec, hello.

CALLER: Good evening, Larry. My question for Maria is this: If you were to make a career change after many years as an excellent correspondent, what would you see yourself doing?

SHRIVER: Well, writing, which is I'm kind of making, although I'm not leaving television. I'm trying to add a career to my television, because I'm not working full-time. So I've kind of discovered a year ago writing, and I've enjoyed it because it's given me an opportunity to speak for myself.

The woman before was saying, how did I find Maria? I found her a lot also in the last year in writing in my book "What's Heaven?" Through the child Kate asking questions and the mother talking to her, I found my voice. In here, I've had my own voice.

In journalism, one of the big frustrations is you don't have a voice. You are a messenger. And it's not my place as a journalist to tell you what I think. It's to bring you the information and let you think.

So this has enabled me finally to have my own voice.

KING: The difference also in writing is you do it at your leisure.

SHRIVER: Well, I do it at night. I don't have a -- I don't have a boss. So far, I have an editor and I have a publishing company. But it's enabled me to kind of put some sense to my journey, to give a voice to myself if that makes sense.

KING: Our guest is Maria Shriver. One of your toughest was our boss, Ted Turner, right?

SHRIVER: Toughest interviews. Well, he's a challenging man.

KING: He's always fun. He's going to be with me on the night of June 1st when we celebrate 20 years of CNN and 15 years of LARRY KING LIVE. They said it wouldn't last.

SHRIVER: Congratulations. That's an achievement.

KING: In this business?

SHRIVER: It is. Duration, determination.

KING: Longevity, can't beat it.

Here's Maria with Ted as we go to break. Watch.


SHRIVER: You said that the secret of your success was that you work, work, work, work, work.

TED TURNER, FOUNDER OF CNN: When did I say that?

SHRIVER: I read it in an interview. Is it inaccurate?

TURNER: Well, I -- it was probably in "The National Enquirer," and I don't even give them an interview.

SHRIVER: I don't read "The National Enquirer."

TURNER: Well, I mean, I never said that.

SHRIVER: You're so testy.

TURNER: I never said work, work, work, work, work.


TURNER: There is no one single thing. But I -- there's a little slogan that I like.

SHRIVER: OK. Thank you, Ted. What's that?


TURNER: Early to bed, early to rise, work like hell and advertise.



KING: Tomorrow night on LARRY KING LIVE, we're going to bring them back: Steve Thomas, the lead detective in the Ramsey case; Lin Wood, the attorney for the Ramseys; Greta Van Susteren. It's going to be fireworks tomorrow night on LARRY KING LIVE. And Friday night, Bill Maher.

Let's go back to calls for Maria Shriver. Jamestown, Kentucky, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry. Good evening.


CALLER: Maria, it seems like the older you get the more you look like your grandmother Rose. How much...

SHRIVER: I like that.

CALLER: What influence has she had in your life?

SHRIVER: Huge influence. Thank you. She had an incredible influence in my life. She was an incredible lady: a woman of great faith, of great strength, of great courage. Her death inspired me to write the first book I wrote, which is "What's Heaven?" because my daughter started asking me questions at the time of my grandmother's death.

But she -- growing up, I used to spend a lot of time with her. She was my godmother. And she certainly let all of us know, not just my own brothers but my cousins -- that, you know, much was expected of us, that we had to honor our family's name, that we had to do something with our lives, that she didn't think that it would be, you know, terribly attractive for us to just sit around and do nothing.

But much was expected and that we shouldn't -- we should always kind of look at other people with respect and dignity, and treat everybody properly. And she always carried herself so magnificently. When I would go down and visit her, she was always dressed to the nine.

She never -- I never heard her say a negative word about my grandfather ever, about any of her kids ever. She had nine children. She kind of seemed to float through it all. And you know, she was always sharp as a tack. She would sit at the table and do math quizzes and grammar quizzes.

KING: And she aged with class.

SHRIVER: She aged with class and she aged with dignity.

KING: Enormous faith.

SHRIVER: Enormous.

KING: Jim Bishop (ph)...

SHRIVER: Incredible.

KING: ... a great writer, told me he sat with her once, and she said to him, you know -- this was after John was killed.


KING: When John went to Ireland, he spoke about the Kennedys but not a lot about the Fitzgeralds, and when I see him, I'm going to ask him about that. She had total belief that she would be with her son again.


KING: Right?

SHRIVER: She did.

KING: That was throughout her life.

SHRIVER: Oh, she had that incredible faith. She went to mass every day, as do my parents today. But she went -- when we would go visit her, that was the things that we would kind of weave our eyes about, because we'd all have to traipse down to mass and church every day with grandma, because she ran her life very organized it. And -- but she -- I think it got her through a lot of what she went through.

KING: Your parents are amazing.

SHRIVER: They are. Extraordinary.

KING: Sarge and Eunice -- they're amazing people.

SHRIVER: Yes, they are...

KING: You're going to China. SHRIVER: I'm going to China with my dad and my brother and my husband for Special Olympics in a couple of weeks. And both of them travel around the world promoting...

KING: He's 84.

SHRIVER: And I'm not going to tell you how old she is because she's a lady. But they're both the most extraordinary people I've ever met. And everybody I introduce them to says the same thing. And they've been a great example to me not only of how to parent, not only in how to handle a marriage, which is to be a team but also be two fulfilled human beings and not be -- not put the responsibility to make the other person on the other person. And they're both constantly learning, setting new goals for themselves, trying to find out different things that are going on in the world: learning, learning.

My mother -- you know, I don't do a story where my parents don't call me up and tell me how extraordinary I am.

KING: But they'll watch tonight. They'll watch tonight.

SHRIVER: They'll watch. They're definitely watching. Hi, mommy. Hi, dad.

KING: How do they...

SHRIVER: She kept saying to me, you know, keep it on the book, don't talk about sex, you know, that's very unattractive,

KING: How do they handle tragedy so well?

SHRIVER: I think through their faith.


SHRIVER: My mother obviously had an incredible example in her mother, and her family is -- also I think the great thing that I've gotten from my parents and I've gotten from my extended family is a tightness, a family loyalty. As my mother always said to me, you can fight with your brothers but you must stick by them, they are the most people in your life, bar none. And...

KING: And you've taught that to your children?

SHRIVER: I've taught that to my children. I say, you can go fight, but don't ever, ever tell me, you know, you're not going to stand by your brother or your sister. And I think that's been a great blessing for me, to have -- I have four brothers and extended cousins who I rely on to get me through.

KING: Back with our remaining with Maria Shriver after this.


KING: You're not going to believe this, but today is April 26th: 14 years ago today you married Arnold Schwarzenegger.


KING: This is your anniversary.

SHRIVER: And I'm here with you. Go figure.

KING: You're here with me. There look.

SHRIVER: Oh there. I was so young, so innocent, so...

KING: You look like -- a little like Marie Osmond coming out with Donny.

SHRIVER: Ughh. He looks like Donny?

KING: No, he don't look like Donny. No. But you look like -- anyway, look at that. April 26th, 1986. CNN on top of everything -- 14 years ago today.

SHRIVER: Look at Arnold's hair. Can you believe that?

KING: Where was this?

SHRIVER: This was in Hyannis Port.

KING: Where else?

SHRIVER: And it was a great day.

KING: The automatic place, right?

SHRIVER: The place where my heart is.

KING: Tell me about this "Human Bondage" special coming on Friday on NBC about trafficking of women.

SHRIVER: Right, this is...

KING: This Friday night.

SHRIVER: This Friday night. It's an hour that I've been working on for the last year, and it came out of a speech that I heart Madeleine Albright give at the Women's Hall of Fame. She and my mother were both inducted into the Women's Hall of Fame, which is in upstate New York, a great place. And she started talking about the incredible trade going on in women in these Eastern European countries and women being trafficked into the United States because of the fall of communism. And all of these, you know, young women have no...

KING: Trafficked?

SHRIVER: Sold into prostitution, forced into brothels, forced to have sex 15, 16, 17 times a day. They estimate 50,000 to 60,000 -- and that's conservative -- brought into this country, more than a million trafficked around the world. KING: How did you get cameras on this?

SHRIVER: We -- hidden cameras. We went through Eastern Europe, and we talked to several of the women. We talked to women who had come into this country. And it's -- I think what to me was so interesting is we talk about all the advances that women have made in this country. You see women looking great, doing well. And if you think about it, in many, many parts of the world women are suffering more than ever before.

And I was fascinated by these women, what's happening to them, and I was interested in what Madeleine Albright was doing about it. She's going around, talking to all the heads of these countries, saying, this is a priority, we want it stopped, we want you to look into it because these are young girls who are answering ads to be nannies and waitresses. These men take their passports. They have no money. They can't call home, and they're forced to work in these brothels.

I went through some of them in Florida, and they make you sick to your stomach. Two girls to a room the size of this desk. Sex 15, 16, 20 times a day. They don't get any money. It's unprotected. They get diseased. They're thrown out. It's horrifying.

KING: What's law enforcement doing about it?

SHRIVER: Well, they're now trying to focus on it. Many of these countries, obviously, there's no laws against it. So it's a big issue. And I was proud to do the hour, and I think it's great, and I hope it will make people sit up and pay attention.

KING: Friday night, and a good title of a famous book and movie.


KING: "Of Human Bondage."

SHRIVER: Yes, it's on "Dateline."

KING: The book is -- we've got a minute -- "Ten Things I Wish I'd Known Before I Went out Into the Real World." It's No. 2 on The New York Times a week from Sunday, No. 3 tomorrow on "USA Today," No. 2 on Amazon. You must feel great.

SHRIVER: I feel good. I feel good. I'm really proud of this little book.

KING: Are you proud that it also helps people?

SHRIVER: That's the only reason I'm proud.

KING: The money you don't need?

SHRIVER: It's never been for me about the money. It's been for me about if I can make it easier or make one other person feel like that they're not going through this alone, if I can use some of what I've learned along the way to help people -- that's why I wrote "What's Heaven?" I really wanted to help kids and parents deal with the issue of death. I really wanted to help so many people who come along and ask me: "How do you work with your career? How do you keep your marriage together? How do you come back from failure? How do you start at the bottom? Where do I start? How do I find out what my passion is? How do I find a mentor?" How do I, how do I, how do I.

So if this helps anybody, then it will be terrific.

KING: Well, you're terrific, Maria.

SHRIVER: Thank you, Larry.

KING: And happy anniversary.

SHRIVER: Thank you.

KING: You too, Arnold. Call her, you know, it might be nice.

SHRIVER: Yes. He sent me flowers.

KING: Oh, that's nice.

SHRIVER: Yes, that was nice.

KING: Thoughtful, Arnold.

Wolf Blitzer has a special coming: a "LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER" tonight. It's a town meeting in Buffalo, New York. The subject of the town meeting is Hillary Clinton. That's next. Don't go away.



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