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Larry King Live

Marie Osmond Discusses Her Battle With Depression and Her Work for Children

Aired May 30, 2000 - 9:00 p.m. ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, she's had some tough stuff to handle lately, but this lady keeps on keeping on -- Marie Osmond for the hour, with your phone calls -- I'm excited -- next on LARRY KING LIVE.

A couple of announcements before we begin. In the interests of journalistic integrity, Marie's father, Carl Ingermond (ph), is my father-in-law -- Marie's manager. I said father.



KING: Start a whole new scandal in Salt Lake. Marie's manager is Carl Ingermond. He is my father-in-law. And Marie and my wife's family go back...

M. OSMOND: Your wife, Shawn, is one of my best friends.

KING: In fact, when she gave birth last Monday, you came to the hospital and massaged her feet.

M. OSMOND: Absolutely. Yes, I did.

KING: So people have this image of tough, cold Marie Osmond.

M. OSMOND: Oh yes, that's me, so me.

KING: Yes, that's right, that hard, cruel woman.

M. OSMOND: You know, I walked into that hospital, Larry, and everybody was around the room. It was full of flowers. It was absolutely gorgeous. And she just had that look of exhaustion, you know, so I said, "Sit down, let me rub your feet." She needed it.

KING: Is this something you do on the...

M. OSMOND: No, I don't rub everybody's feet.

KING: With seven children -- to you, it's old hat, right?

M. OSMOND: She's like a sister to me.

KING: You hear "maternity ward," you run into the hospital, right?

M. OSMOND: No, Larry, but I hear you do.


KING: A wise ass. OK, we're starting off this way. All right.

Marie Osmond hosts -- she co-hosts "Donny & Marie." She's the co-founder of the Children's Miracle Network. What wonderful work they do. We'll be talking about that later. They've got a big weekend coming. Their annual telethon -- they've raised over $4 billion already.

M. OSMOND: No, 2 billion.

KING: Two billion -- heading to four.

M. OSMOND: We want to.

KING: A promo note, though: Tomorrow night, we're going to have some historic television here. John and Patsy Ramsey will be here, along with Steven Foster, the former detective from Colorado who has written a book saying that they did it. Steven Foster and the Ramseys together tomorrow night.

Before we get to the Children's Miracle Network, how's things going?

M. OSMOND: Things are great, Larry. Things are really good.

KING: Last time, you were with us, you were in that depression problem and...

M. OSMOND: Well, we were coming out of it. It was where I felt at a place where I could talk about it. But yes, a lot -- boy, I'm telling you, I have been overwhelmed by women who have thousands and thousands and thousands of e-mails and letters from people saying, you know, thank you for giving it a face. And women were ashamed to say it, and there's nothing to be ashamed of. It's part of, I guess, being a woman.

I was ashamed of it until my mother came forward and told me that she had been through it, so.

KING: By the way, is one of the signs of coming out of it speaking out about it? Do you think that's a sign of coming through it?

M. OSMOND: Well, I think that -- no, I don't know if that's part of it.

KING: So you could have it, you could be in the depths of it and still talk about it?

M. OSMOND: I just know what it did for me to know that somebody else had been through it, and I think -- you know, honestly, Larry, I think it's because I never had a sister that I have a great love for women, and I feel like women suffered in silence. And if I could just help one person, it was worth it to come out and talk about it.

But I do, I have a great love for women. I grew up in a man's world, especially in the '70s. You know, it was the recording business, it was all men, television was all men. And you know, I'm one of the exceptions to the rule.

I'm a woman who's been in this business 37 years, and I like being a woman. You know, I like the difference.

KING: And you love children, we know that.

M. OSMOND: I love children.

KING: By the way I said Steven Thomas. Steven Foster. It's Steven Thomas tomorrow. Steven Foster was a songwriter. He's not around anymore. Steven Thomas is the detective.

M. OSMOND: That would have been an interesting evening.

KING: See you throw me, Marie. I come on, and already I'm thrown.

M. OSMOND: Look at me, Larry.

KING: Fifteen million -- don't to that to me. Don't rile me.


M. OSMOND: You look very handsome in your red, by the way.

KING: Do we know what post-partum depression is?

M. OSMOND: Well, there are different forms of depression. PPD in its deepest state, from all the information that I have gathered, I mean, it's really a very serious condition, and it's...

KING: After birth only, or after surgery, or after operation (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

M. OSMOND: Well, there are statistics now that prove that you can have PPD even through adoption.

KING: Ah. So it has nothing to do with the physical act of giving birth?

M. OSMOND: I think a lot of it is, but I think certain forms of depression -- I think it can be from lack of sleep or from being overwhelmed. Lots of different things, lots of reasons. But you know, I have spent a year almost now finding out information, and I have a lot of interesting information that I will talk to you about.

KING: You have helped a lot of people?

M. OSMOND: Well, you know what: I guess God never gives us anything we can't handle, and through all of it, I keep saying there's got to be a reason you go through it. And I have found a lot of interesting information for women.

KING: Did it ever help when people said, hey, you're Marie Osmond, you're internationally known, you've done theater, you've had a television career, you were a star when you were a kid, you got a major -- you're the only successful talk show since Roseanne -- since...

M. OSMOND: "Rosie."

KING: Since "Rosie." Your 47th show started.

M. OSMOND: Isn't that exciting?

KING: You're still as -- how could you be depressed? People must have said that. How could you be...

M. OSMOND: Absolutely. I said the same thing to myself. I think that -- I think we're harder on ourselves than anybody could ever be on us, and I think women tend to be very hard on themselves at a time in their lives when they should be happy, and they have a new child, and things are wonderful that, you know, you go through something like that, and it doesn't make sense. That's the thing that is interesting.

You know me, Larry. I'm a positive woman.

KING: I know.

M. OSMOND: I always find, you know, the light at the end of the tunnel. Couldn't find it.

KING: Is it more of a problem, do you think, when the person that it affects is a celebrity? The fact that it's written about in magazines and in tabloids and that people know you, so therefore it's, oh, that's Marie, she's having problems.

M. OSMOND: Oh, I don't know. I think that a lot of things were written, "tabloidish," whatever. You know, I think that after so many years of having that done to you, I think that's why I talk to you about it. That's why I did a couple of the shows, is then they can see the truth of it.

The fact is I never understood people who were depressed. I always thought, oh come on, you know, snap out of, there's got to be something.

KING: It's a mood.

M. OSMOND: Can't.

KING: And it's not a mood, right?

M. OSMOND: No, I'm telling you, it's real. And for me, who is the eternal optimist, to go there, it was so, so scary. KING: And there's also great products out there, pharmaceutical products.

M. OSMOND: Sure, absolutely. There's lots of answers, lots of answers.

KING: And you had lots of help, too, right? I mean, people, support groups around you?

M. OSMOND: You mean afterwards?

KING: Family. Yes. During?

M. OSMOND: You know what: you get -- I'm the kind of woman that I like to just kind of take charge. Especially after the baby, everybody said, well, can we help? Yes, lots of people offer help. It's just you just don't necessarily take it.

KING: This lady has helped an awful lot of children in ways we're going to learn about. And here's an example of what happens on the telethon. Here's Marie singing on the Children's Miracle Network Telethon.

M. OSMOND: Which hairdo is this?


M. OSMOND (singing): There's an answer, if you reach into your soul, and the sorrow that you know will melt away. Then a hero comes along with the strength to carry on, and you cast your fears aside, and you know you can survive. So you when you feel like hope is gone, look inside you and be strong, and you finally see the truth that a hero lies in you.






DONNY OSMOND, CO-HOST: DONNY & MARIE: All right! How are you?


KING: That's the happiest show on television, having guested on it.

You never figured this show would be this kind of hit, right?

M. OSMOND: You know, we always believed in our chemistry, the two of us. We always felt like once we decided to come back in this format, we had something that we could relate to everybody with. I mean, we hadn't been in that chair, but we had been in this chair so many times.

KING: They're two different chairs, though.

M. OSMOND: They are two different chairs, and it took us a good year to figure out, just relax and be ourselves. We have a unique chemistry.

KING: Now you kept on doing shows during your problem.

M. OSMOND: Oh, yes.

KING: How did you manage that?

M. OSMOND: It's called being professional.

KING: So you acting, double-acting out there.

M. OSMOND: Oh, sure. I mean, there were days that I would stand backstage, and I think to lie about it actually did me a disservice as well, because I would stand out there right before they introduced us, and I would start shaking, I would start falling apart, crying and saying, "Donny, I can't do this," and he would say, it's all right, lean on me today, and vice versa, and that's the great thing about a sibling relationship, is you know that the other person is professional enough to help you through that. And Donny knows that I'm a professional, and I know he's one, and so we definitely leaned on each other, but there were days that I really -- I had to figure out why I wanted to go out there, and then I was happy, you know, because that's what you do, you smile, and...

KING: So you could -- even though you could fake it on the air, you couldn't fake it in life.

M. OSMOND: Oh, no, no. Really, actually in a lot of ways, doing the show was helpful to me, because it gave me a reason to get dressed.

KING: Mike Wallace worked through his -- I mean, he never didn't go to work...

M. OSMOND: Right.

KING: ... while depressed, but he was depressed.

M. OSMOND: Yes. You were saying that he said something about somebody could give you...

KING: Dick Cabot told me someone could tell you you've inherited $10 million or you've lost $10 million, and both news would be treated the same way.

M. OSMOND: Right.

KING: So how do you know when you're coming out of it.


KING: You also discussed that on your own show, did you not?

M. OSMOND: Yes, we did, absolutely, and we've had some people on. You know because you start feeling like yourself again, and you wonder if you'll ever see that person again.

KING: Do you have to stay on the medication?

M. OSMOND: I'm not on any medication.


M. OSMOND: No. PPD is different. There's lots of varying degrees of it. But I do think that in certain cases, you know some people have to. But to me, it's no different than taking high blood pressure medicine, heart pill, whatever it is, kidney pills, if you need it, then you need it.

KING: Before we talk about other things, and certainly the Children's Miracle Network, single parent, that's new to you, right?

M. OSMOND: Well, it's new again.

KING: New again. But you've been married a long time before the separation, right?

M. OSMOND: Right.

KING: How are you handling that and a career?

M. OSMOND: Well, I was on the phone with teenager right before the show.

KING: Being mother and father.

M. OSMOND: Yes, you know, being a single parent is something, again, that there is a lot of women out there that do it.

KING: There is no lesson in it, though?

M. OSMOND: There is no lesson. You know, it would be great if they could give that as one of the mandatory classes in college, you know, that you learn how to be a parent, because there's a lot of things to learn. Children are the greatest joy in the world, but there is no manual on how to do it perfectly, and each one is so different. But you do, you take -- you just take it a day at a time, and you stay on your knees a lot.

KING: Having an infant as well as a grown child.

M. OSMOND: This kid is not an infant. This kid is 10 months old, and he's a sumo wrestler.

KING: Yes, he's bigger than my 14-month-old, right? M. OSMOND: He is. He's massive.

KING: No wonder I had PPD, sucked the life out of me. Are you dating yet? Are you starting to?

M. OSMOND: No, no.


KING: What are you laughing at? You are a beautiful woman.

M. OSMOND: It's very funny to me.

KING: That's funny to you? You don't want to get into life's swing.

M. OSMOND: Are you asking me Out, Larry?

KING: No, I can't do that.


M. OSMOND: Just kidding. No, Larry, I'm separated.

KING: What do you want to get me shot?

M. OSMOND: I'm just separated.

KING: Just separated. You have no desire for...

M. OSMOND: No, no. That's -- no.

KING: Being around a long time as you have, what are the downsides...

M. OSMOND: Gosh, that makes me sound so old.

KING: No. What are the downsides? You were famous at what age?

M. OSMOND: Well, I started at age 3.

KING: But the public knew Donny & Marie at what age?

M. OSMOND: Fourteen. "Paper Roses" I was 12.

KING: So you've been around a long time.

M. OSMOND: About 37 years.

KING: What are the downsides to that?

M. OSMOND: You know, I think the only downside, and it's not really a downside, but you have to keep recreating yourself. That's the interesting part of it. And I don't know that everybody -- because every time you recreate yourself or find a new niche, whether it's going into recording, or television, or a talk show, or theater or whatever it is, there's a lot of work involved, and you have to find that desire within you. That can't come from managers or anybody else. Although Carl, we have a unique relationship. We've been together over 27 years.

KING: That's strange in the business.

M. OSMOND: It is very strange. He's, you know, been right there with me through everything, and I think you were kind of right. He is like a father in a lot of ways.

KING: Were you helped or hurt by the -- for want of a better term, goody-two-shoes image, you know, nothing -- everything is always right with Marie?


M. OSMOND: Oh, I think that a lot of times when they put you...

KING: Polyanna.

M. OSMOND: Yes, I honestly laughed a lot about it, Larry, because how do you -- and I've said this before, how do you stay in this business for as long as I've been in it and be naive? You're naive to assume that. You can not be naive. I have seen everything. The difference is, is I think I'm semianalytical, in the sense that I saw friends take their lives, destroy their careers, throw everything away with substance abuse, drug, things like that, so I opted not to. That's the difference.

KING: Ever tempted to?


KING: Substance abuse.

M. OSMOND: Larry, I've been at parties where it was sitting in front of me, absolutely, but I didn't like the outcome. I didn't like what it did to my friends.

KING: How much of that do you think was your Mormon beliefs?

M. OSMOND: Well, I do that -- firs of all, it's Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and our nickname is "Mormon." I decided at a very young age that I could not be a Mormon because my parents were. It's my personality. I have to know. And I really took it upon me at an early age to understand what is the difference between this faith and this faith, and I've studied many religions.

KING: So you didn't do it of course your father said do it?

M. OSMOND: No. Unfortunately, I'm too stubborn. But fortunately, it worked to my advantage, because I believed at a very young age in my beliefs, and when you believe something, it is not difficult.

KING: That hurts -- depression, though, that takes a back seat,too, right?


KING: When you're in depression, everything takes a back seat.

M. OSMOND: Well, that's where religion helps and your belief, because I do believe in God, and I do believe there's a purpose for this life.

KING: This lady's helped a lot of kids, and we're going to talk about that. And we'll be taking your calls. She's our guest for the full hour.

And don't forget, tomorrow, John and Patsy Ramsey and one of their severest critics, Steven Thomas, the bestselling author, the former detective, who says that he thinks one or both were involved in the death of their child. They'll be on together tomorrow night.

We'll be right back with Marie Osmond. Don't go away.



D. OSMOND (singing): May tomorrow be a perfect day.

M. OSMOND (singing): May you find love and laughter along the way.

D. OSMOND: May God keep you in his tender care

M. OSMOND: Until he brings us together again.

DONNY AND MARIE OSMOND: Good night, everybody!


KING: Looney tunes there.

M. OSMOND: Hey, you like those. Told you I've every hair-do in the world there.

KING: What were you, 7 years old there?

How did this incredible Children's Miracle Network -- how did that come about?

M. OSMOND: Well, a lot of people -- some people know, some people don't, but my two oldest brothers -- there are 11 children, nine before me. My two oldest brothers are deaf and do not perform, and the Osmond Foundation was set up many years ago to help the hearing impaired, and then it just kind of evolved to, how can we help as many people as possible?

KING: All kinds of illnesses.

M. OSMOND: All kinds of illnesses.

KING: Children only?

M. OSMOND: Well, I believe when you help a child, you can do nothing more for the family, and that's where we kind of focused in on children's hospitals, because they were kind of last on the totem pole. We just assumed they're always going to be there to take care of our children.

KING: So how does it work? What does it do?

M. OSMOND: CMN, Children's Miracle Network, not to be confused with CNN, but CMN is one of the greatest organizations. All the money that's raised in each area -- for example, here in Washington, D.C., all the money raised here, 100 percent of it goes to the kids in the hospitals.

KING: How many hospitals are all over the country?

M. OSMOND: We have 170 hospitals. We've been doing this 18 years. I'm one of the founders of it. It's -- everybody donates their time.

KING: There's always a telethon.

M. OSMOND: We've always done -- we call it a broadcast actually, because it's more of a celebration than it is, you know, quote a telethon.

KING: How many hours?

M. OSMOND: Twenty one. I needed three for hair and makeup.

KING: The 83rd time you've used that line.

M. OSMOND: Exactly. No, but the -- it's different now in different areas, and lots of things we're doing now is it's becoming -- throughout the whole year, you'll see more things, a lot of wonderful corporate sponsors. We have Wal-Mart, and Dairy Queen and Iowa Forester.

One of the things we're doing here in Washington, D.C. right now is that we bring a child from every state, they're a "miracle kid," and we fly them all out to the White House, and then from there to Orlando, where they'll go to the broadcast, which is Disney World.

KING: You do it at Disney World, right?

M. OSMOND: Nothing better than kids and Mickey Mouse.

KING: Do they give you their facility?

M. OSMOND: They do. And so that's how we can do 100 percent of the money going to kids. This year, we are the largest charity of its kind that's broadcast on television. We will raise probably in excess, is that OK to say that, $200 million this year. KING: And you've raised $2 billion altogether, and the hospitals have given you $4 billion worth of what?

M. OSMOND: What is -- when you said $4 billion earlier -- this is the things that I'd love people to know. These hospitals treat all kinds of kids. They treat -- for example, you know, when the federal building in Oklahoma blew up and also the flight 232, Hurricane Andrew, the Columbine shootings, all those different kinds of things, those were children were treated at children's hospitals, CMN hospitals. People just assume they're always going to be there.

I did an interview today with -- another thing for CMN, and the cameraman came up to me afterwards and said, I want you to know something, that my child had to have open heart surgery, and it hadn't been for CMN, I would have lost my house. These hospitals give $4 billion a year in undesignated funds, they give it away free. They help families, they make a difference, whether it's a child with AIDS, whether it's a broken bone, tonsillectomy to heart surgery, which you're very involved in. You have two wings at two of our children's hospitals. Whatever it is, these hospitals are there are to take care of the kids, and this is where we give back and help our communities.

KING: We'll be back with more of Marie after this. Don't go away.


M. OSMOND (singing): I will find my way if I can be strong. I know every mile will be worth my while when I go the distance. I'll be right where I belong.



KING: Let's take a call for Marie.

Aracagu, Brazil, hello?

CALLER: Yes, hello, Larry and Marie. My name is Ralph Mullins (ph), and I'm calling you from northeast Brazil, and first I just wanted to say, Larry, it's a joy being able to see your show in South America every evening down here.

KING: Thank you.

CALLER: It's one of the few English programs that I do get to view.

KING: Well, we're celebrating our 20th anniversary Thursday and Friday, so watch. Two hours each night.

CALLER: That's wonderful. I do enjoy your show.

And, Marie, I know you were talking about depression a little bit. And being an American living in South America, I was wondering what you feel about -- I mean, the United States has the highest depression rate of any country in the world, and America is the richest country in the world, no question about it, and I was wondering what you both feel about that Americans put a lot of pressure on themselves to be successful, and the way that Americans define success?

KING: Excellent question.

CALLER: I mean, living in Brazil, I truly see the person down here struggling to survive.

KING: And they don't have depression. That's an excellent question.

M. OSMOND: I think there's a lot of reasons for it. I'm not an expert.

KING: Let's make a guess.

M. OSMOND: Well, I think the work ethic -- I think he's right, I think we place our values on what we can accumulate. But more than that, I think that our diet has really -- we eat refined foods, processed. I think the foods we eat now are not food. I think that we...

KING: I that affects our chemical.

M. OSMOND: Absolutely. You look at our milk, full of hormones, and steroids, and preservatives, and nitrates and all these different kind of things that we throw into our bodies, and I really believe it has affect on us as human beings.

KING: He's talking about peasants in South America don't have anything, and they don't have depression, and here you got "what makes Sammy run?," and people with millions of dollars and they're taking pills.

M. OSMOND: And like I said, I'm not an expert. But I do know that there are a lot of answers out there. And I do -- I think that we drive ourselves. We sleep very little. I think there's a lot of reasons.

KING: By the way, do your hospitals treat children with mental illnesses as well.

M. OSMOND: Absolutely. They treat all children.

KING: Schizophrenic children as well.

M. OSMOND: They treat children. They treat families. They treat communities. And that's the thing is it's not just giving money to help sick kids, but these programs reach out into the community.

KING: Any area of the country you don't reach?

M. OSMOND: Brazil. KING: No, I mean in the United States?

M. OSMOND: No, we're all through the United States and Canada.

KING: We'll be back with more of Marie Osmond and more of your phone calls. This is LARRY KING LIVE.

Tomorrow night, don't forget the Ramseys and former detective Steven Thomas. Tomorrow night. Don't go away.


M. OSMOND (singing): And though I may have never told you, before, I love you so.




DONNY AND MARIE OSMOND AND UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): We're off on the road to Morocco , instead of the road to (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

D. OSMOND: We'll play the Baghdad Bijou and our act will be unique.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can play the kidnapped queen and you can be my sheik.

M. OSMOND: So let's get this rug off the ground. We'll tune up in Tunisia, where we'll (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the desert bow.

D. OSMOND: They'll ask us in Damascus if we know some good old jokes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Henry Youngman were only around.

DONNY AND MARIE OSMOND AND UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like Webster's Dictionary, we're Morocco bound, bound, bound.



KING: That was your first show.

M. OSMOND: First show, 14.

KING: Uncle Milty was the guest.

M. OSMOND: Uncle Milty was so funny. When he did the first show, and thought, oh, kids, and he says, we did this whole thing about makeup, you know, the big powder puff, he goes, "Now listen to me, you've got to hit me really hard." I said OK, I will, I'll hit you really hard. No, you don't understand, hit me. So I did it, man. I went "makeup," boom. I think I knocked his head off.


KING: It was a great take.

KING: Nice piece of tape.

M. OSMOND: Yes, a lot of great -- we worked with the best. Lucille Ball, Groucho Marx and John Wayne, and all those wonderful people.

KING: Before we take some calls, do you visit hospitals a lot?

M. OSMOND: I visit them all the time. What I do a lot right now is I work a lot with corporate to get them involved and participate, because really, when you look at the ads in newspapers and it says, buy our products, it will help Children's Miracle Network, they're buying your products and they're giving a portion of the proceeds.

KING: And you're on this weekend, Saturday and Sunday.

M. OSMOND: Third and 4th.

KING: On 171 stations.

M. OSMOND: The miracle. We don't parade sick children. Wait until you see...

KING: Not the typical.

M. OSMOND: No, these are miracle stories.

KING: The fifty kids will be there that you helped, right? And they're one from each state?

M. OSMOND: Yes, and wait until you see their stories. They're remarkable, Larry.

KING: Hamilton, Ontario, for Marie Osmond, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Marie.

I just think you are absolutely wonderful. You are such an inspiration to women.

M. OSMOND: You are so sweet.

CALLER: And being a mom and because of you, I came forward about my depression, and figured out what was wrong and got help. I was just wondering, how did you explain to your children and help them to understand what was happening to you?

KING: Great question.

M. OSMOND: Yes. You know, at the time I was going through it.

And tell me your name one more time.

KING: I'm sorry, I got her off. I have quick fingers.

M. OSMOND: You do have quick fingers.

KING: Yes.

M. OSMOND: But one of the things that happened with me is I didn't know how to tell my children. That's why I left.

KING: And you drove off.

M. OSMOND: You know, it's one of the reasons I got in the car and I drove away, because I didn't want my children to see their mother falling apart. To me, I thought it would be very scary as a child. You know, I was coherent enough to say take care of them, here's some money, and whatever needs to happen, but I wasn't me, and it was scary to me.

KING: When you were driving, what were you thinking?

M. OSMOND: A lot of things, Larry, and we'll talk about it later.


KING: You didn't know where you were going?

M. OSMOND: No. And a lot of things. I don't know, you know. It's one of those things that...

KING: Did you know where you were going?


KING: That's got to be scary.

M. OSMOND: Yes. It was scary, absolutely. But it's like any person that goes through it, like this girl that called, I think it's scarier just saying who am I? What is this? Who is in here? I don't know her.

KING: Doesn't it help you know that you've inspired others?

M. OSMOND: You know, Larry, I'm overwhelmed by it.

KING: I mean, here's a woman who was inspired by you.

M. OSMOND: You know, I truly believe we go through things for a reason, whether it's to come on your show and talk about it, whether it's now she can see it in a friend or a neighbor.

KING: Someone watches tonight and says, I can help this person or help myself.

M. OSMOND: One of the greatest letters I received, Larry, was from a lady who said when my mother -- no, my mother-in-law saw you, she said that's what's wrong with my daughter in law, and so sometimes it takes other people seeing it in somebody to realize what's happening.

KING: I'm looking for timing now. When you did the Children's Miracle Network, you don't call it telethon, you call it...

M. OSMOND: It's a broadcast, right.

KING: Celebrated broadcast last week, last year, were you depressed at the time?

M. OSMOND: That was right before delivery. As a matter of fact, I didn't make it to the end of that broadcast because I went into labor. and I had to fly home and then I stopped again. That baby would not come.

KING: Do you think that you could have done that celebration show in depression? Do you could have done two nights, two days, 21 hours?

M. OSMOND: With the depression that I had I probably wouldn't have been there.

KING: It was that bad?


KING: I mean, for an hour, you could...

M. OSMOND: I had to go back to work three weeks after the baby was born, and do QVC. And you know that movie "What About Bob?" where's he's standing with the...

KING: One of the funniest movies ever.

M. OSMOND: Funny movie, where he says "baby step, baby step." I literally baby-stepped myself on an airplane. I almost turned around massive times. I -- my girlfriend literally helped me walk out, and thank heaven's it was about my dolls, it was about something that I loved, or I don't think I could have done that first show.

KING: What's with the dolls? How did that start? Are you a doll freak?

M. OSMOND: I love dolls.

KING: loved them when you were a kid?

M. OSMOND: I love the whole concept of them. I love that they are generational. I love that it's something that brings grandmother together with granddaughter. I love that this is something -- I have dolls that were my grandma's, that they pass down, they're heirlooms. Our dolls are beautiful. I bring them at incredible prices. I sculpt. I design them. I actually am hands on. It's not something that I don't lend my name to. KING: Every doll that's made, you know the doll?

M. OSMOND: I do know the doll, absolutely. I've done a doll for several people that you know.

KING: Yes, the Amaya doll, for Wendy Woodworth (ph).

M. OSMOND: One of our sellers, yes.

KING: That was a big seller.

M. OSMOND: Yes. She just sold out as a matter of fact. You have to get her on secondary market now.

KING: Secondary market. Are dolls helpful in hospitals, by the way?

M. OSMOND: I donate a lot of my dolls to charities and different types of things to help raise funds and things like that, but you know, it ended up being a business. It starting out saying, you know, I need a hobby, I need a break from work, and it ended up being a big business.

KING: The toughest part about children, and hospitals and disease is when you lose some, isn't it?

M. OSMOND: It is hard.

KING: Children's cancer wards.

M. OSMOND: Leukemia, accident victims, burn victims are really tough. I visit them. I believe in it. I think those kids need you there. And sometimes it's not the kids that need you there so much, it's the parents. They need to know that you care. I've almost lost two children with asthma. You know, it's not to the extent of some of these people, but I know what these hospitals -- I know what it's like in a small way, not a small way -- it's my child, to walk into a hospital and say, I don't know what's wrong, help me, my baby can't breathe, it's terrifying, and so I have a personal love for these hospitals. These hospitals never turn a child away. It doesn't matter the financial situation of the parent. To me, that's what America is about.

KING: Our guest is Marie Osmond, the co-host of "Donny & Marie," the co-founder of the Children's Miracle Network. They're program is this weekend, June 3 and 4 from Disney World.

Back with more calls for Marie on LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the green room, I found two new additions for our museum.

D. OSMOND: Oh, look at that, look at that.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then also ...


D. OSMOND: That's great.

M. OSMOND: Donny, don't. Don't! Don't! Get off me!


M. OSMOND: I hate him. He's a moron. He can't help himself. He's a moron. I'm the interpreter.

KING: You hate cockroaches.

M. OSMOND: I hate them.

KING: You ran off the set.

M. OSMOND: Larry, they were that big.


KING: And you had obviously no idea.

M. OSMOND: No idea.

KING: Is that the most fun part about doing a fun show, you never know what's going to happen? Because you do weird things.

M. OSMOND: We do crazy thing, we do. It is fun. I think it's nice to tune in for an hour. There's enough craziness on TV. It's fun to tune in and laugh and have a good time, learn some things, find out what's hot, what's not, informational and fun.

KING: You live in California full-time now, right?

M. OSMOND: I am there, right, because of the show, and my kids being in school, but...

KING: You are so Utah, though.

M. OSMOND: I still have residence in Utah. I like Utah.

KING: Your image is so Utah, right?

M. OSMOND: It is, yes.

KING: You have guests on this show, on your children's... M. OSMOND: Yes, we have a bunch of people coming up. This year, Bill Cosby, SHeDaisy, Winona, Boys II Men, 'N Sync, Britney Spears, lot of people are going to be on, and they are all there to celebrate kids and they're all there free; everybody does it for nothing.

KING: Every kind of thing like this usually puts sick kids on. It's part of the appeal to get people. Did you ever think of wanting to do that?

M. OSMOND: Never wanted to do that.

KING: Showing children?

M. OSMOND: You know, the thing is that when you look at these kids -- and we help 14 million kids a year, CMN. What's great about it, is these kids go on to live productive, healthy lives. One of my favorite stories is I went into a neonatal area, where the baby was little -- your little guy was in the neonatal.

KING: Four days.

M. OSMOND: Four days.

KING: He had a breathing thing, he's OK now.

M. OSMOND: Yes, well, because their lungs, especially when they're that tiny. This baby was born way too early. This little boy was one pound. That's a pound of butter. His dad had taken off his wedding ring and put it on his wrist as a bracelet -- he was that tiny. And it said on the band, it said, "donated by CMN," and he came up and gave me a big hug, and said, "Thank you, my baby wouldn't be here if it wasn't for CMN." That little boy is now 7 years old, and he's perfect.

KING: So each dollar comes in local, stays local.

M. OSMOND: That's right. So when you give to your local Wal- Mart, or you give to your local Dairy Queen or whatever you see that says CMN on it, that money goes directly to your children's hospital, 100 percent of it. So you really are helping your own kids, and statistics prove, Larry, that everybody will use a children's hospital at one time in their life.

KING: What does this do -- I know that having a cardiac foundation helps a lot for me. What does it do for you? What's selfish about this?

M. OSMOND: Selfish?

KING: I mean in the good sense of saying it. There has to be a payback for you other than...

M. OSMOND: Yes. The payback is to see their little faces, the payback is to see -- ah, you're going to get me. When you see a little girl sitting there next to you that has survived leukemia, when you see a little baby who survived open-heart surgery., when you see a little child who had a brain aneurysm and had to have brain surgery at age 3 and had to learn to walk again and talk again and speak again, and they're perfect, and when you see a mother that has her baby after nine months of carrying that child and going through everything, that's why I do this, because there is nothing better than helping a child. They're the innocent. You know, they're the ones that need us.

KING: When you see a child in distress, does it ever cause you to doubt your faith?

M. OSMOND: No, because I feel like God does everything for a reason. You have no Kleenex, I can't believe, LARRY KING LIVE has no kleenex.

KING: I'll tell you what, we'll take a break. What do you want, everything?

M. OSMOND: I know stuff on Larry. Shall I start?

(LAUGHTER) KING: We'll be back.

M. OSMOND: Your wife is my girlfriend, you know.

KING: We'll be back after this, without the Kleenex.

M. OSMOND: Tell us about the lucky blue.

KING: Don't...


KING: We're back with Marie Osmond, the co-host of "Donny & Marie," the co-founder of the Children's Miracle Network.

M. OSMOND: We want to know about lucky blues.

KING: I don't want to talk about it.

M. OSMOND: I do.

KING: I don't. It's my show. Now you're going to have him all thinking.

M. OSMOND: I know. I think you should write in and say, "Larry, what's your lucky blue?"

KING: When you do, you cause me...

M. OSMOND: But I think people need to know this, you're superstitious.

KING: OK, should I tell them?


KING: Well, what happened is the first time I ever flew I wore blue underwear, and so every time I fly I wear blue underwear, OK. So I'm in the store with the wife, and I ask the lady, I ask, "Do you see any blue underwear?" And Shawn says, why? And I say, well, I wear blue underwear when I fly, and so she screams in the store. "You wear blue underwear every" -- and the whole store looked at me, and she goes back six months later, her friend goes to that store to get the underwear, and they go, oh, for Larry, with the blues, right. Now you had to say this.

M. OSMOND: And you have about what? Fifteen pair of them?

KING: Write this down, she'll never be back.

M. OSMOND: Thank you, Shawn.

KING: You're getting the NAB Samaritan Award.

M. OSMOND: Yes I am. Isn't that wonderful?

KING: National Association of Broadcasters. We don't hand out awards.

M. OSMOND: For Children's Miracle Network, which...

KING: For the work you do.

M. OSMOND: Yes, which is really an honor. But you know what, honestly, Larry, and I mean it sincerely, an idea is an idea until people put it into action, and that couldn't happen without television stations and the radio stations, without the sponsors. There is no way this could happen without corporate America and corporate Canada. There's no way that we could do it without the kids, and the love and the doctors, and the nurses, and the staffs and everybody that gets behind it.

KING: I see.

You want to go back on the stage? I saw you do "The King and I." You were terrific. You've done "The Sound of Music." Do you want to do more of that?

M. OSMOND: You know, I was asked to do "Annie Get Your Gun" this summer, and...

KING: Why didn't you do it?

M. OSMOND: Well you know, I was that close, but my kids need me this summer. But maybe next summer.

KING: Bernadette Peters is...

M. OSMOND: Yes, I flew in and talked to Bernadette about it.

KING: Kitchenor, Ontario, hello.

CALLER: Hello, Larry. This is Michelle.

KING: Hi, Michelle.

CALLER: Hi, Michelle.

M. OSMOND: I'm calling to congratulate Marie on the Children's Network and how much money they've raised.

M. OSMOND: Oh, well you're very sweet.

KING: Do you have a question?

CALLER: Yes, I have an almost 9-month-old baby that's very hyper. How do you deal with your children that won't go to sleep at night?

KING: Give them a little of motherly advice. Have you had a hyper child?

M. OSMOND: I have a hyper child.

KING: You do?

M. OSMOND: Yes, I do. You know, you might want to adjust -- I feel like I'm a doctor here. Check out how many times they sleep, and get them on a really good schedule, and you might want to take away one of the nap periods.

KING: That's cruel.

M. OSMOND: No, actually sometimes it's good to just make sure they get out and run, and just see how much they're indoors and see if you're giving them too much sugar, you know.

KING: That could be it, right?


KING: By the way, you mentioned being the only child in a family of brothers.

M. OSMOND: I know, Larry.

KING: Did you want a sister?

M. OSMOND: Yes, I did want a sister.

KING: And do you think that's...

M. OSMOND: But I got my own bedroom, and that was a beautiful thing.

KING: But there has to be the little gap, when you didn't have anyone to...

M. OSMOND: Yes, it was. I think, too, going through a lot of your...

KING: Look at all the little Osmonds there.

M. OSMOND: That's just a few of us. There's still more. That's just a few of us.

KING: Yes.

M. OSMOND: But it was fun, it was wonderful, but there are certain things that you go through in your life. I'd love to have a sister. I'd love to say, "How is it with you and your kids?" "What is it like for you at this time in your life?" And so I didn't really have that. But like I said your wife, Shawn and Shannon, you know, we've all been kind of like sisters, and I think that's why I love women so much. I'm a woman's advocate, but I'm not in being a man. I believe in being a woman, and I think there's great strength in that, and I think that our society, and the newspapers that we read, and the magazine articles and everything that tells what we have to be, I don't like that. I think we need to be what we feel is inside, and I think it's important for us as women to listen to our intuition and not put undue stress and pressure on ourselves to be this perfect woman.

KING: Do you consider yourself independent?


KING: Yes. Or dependent? Or neither?

M. OSMOND: I'm dependent when I need to be and I'm independent when I need to be.

KING: On that definitive note, we'll be back with our remaining moments with Marie Osmond.

M. OSMOND: But I don't wear blue underwear.


KING: That's two for the church.

We'll be right back with our remaining moments. Don't go away.


M. OSMOND: OK, to show you how much I appreciate your gift, I'll go off my diet for about two seconds and have one, OK?

Which ones are the soft centers?

D. OSMOND: Soft centers, I don't know. It says here on the box, "for me, di (ph) chocolate," and here it "soterel (ph) di chocolate," and good, too.

M. OSMOND: For me? Donny, you know, I studied French in high school.

D. OSMOND: You did? M. OSMOND: Yes, and "soterel di chocolate" means you just ate a chocolate-covered grasshopper.




KING: We're back with our remaining moments.

Moon Lake, Mississippi, hello.

CALLER: Hello.


CALLER: Hey. I enjoy your show, watch it all the time.

KING: Thank you.

CALLER: And I'll tell you what, I want to tell Marie, that I got up on the stage with her and Donny 24 years ago at GM, and we sang on the microphone, and you had one of those crazy mikes, and I couldn't...

M. OSMOND: Oh, my goodness.

CALLER: And I think you're doing great with the children's hospital.

M. OSMOND: Thank you. Yes, I think it changed your voice. It was...

KING: What was it?

M. OSMOND: It was a little gimmick that we used to do then when we performed in Vegas and different places, where we...

KING: Ever think of slowing down?

M. OSMOND: Me? Yes, I take time off. I think I play as hard as I work. I'm taking the summer off. We just -- Friday was our last "Donny & Marie" show, but we've been doing something really fun -- we've been working really hard so that through the summer we have all fresh programming, so it not just reruns, but you'll get to see the best of 'N Sync and different people who've done the show and special programming for the summer, and it was a little extra work, but it's going to be -- I don't have to work until August now.

KING: One good thing about the Children's Miracle Network is it's a good show.

M. OSMOND: It is a great show.

KING: It's a really fun show to watch. And you can check newspapers for the local station.

M. OSMOND: You've been there before.

KING: I've been there.

M. OSMOND: You've done some wonderful thing to help the kids.

KING: And Shawn did a half-hour thing that they show in Los Angeles. There's an abridged to it, but...


M. OSMOND: That's right, very, very long.

And you should check local stations, right?

M. OSMOND: Absolutely. June 3 and 4, check your local listing, and you don't have to watch all 21 hours, but I'll tell you, the stories, they're the best.

KING: Do you ever fear -- we only have a minute left -- a relapse?

M. OSMOND: Of depression? I don't know about a relapse, but there are times -- you know for me to say...

KING: When you have a bad moment, do you think, oh, it's happening again?

M. OSMOND: Yes, it's scary. You think, oh no, how deep is this going to go? But I know in my heart that it will never go there again.

KING: You do?

M. OSMOND: Yes. Well, I'm done. Seven children is a lot, Larry, and I love each and every one of it, and if I had to go through it again, I would, absolutely, because I know there are answers, and there is no reason to be afraid to have a child. They just need more information. Most testing on women is done on 150-pound men, breast cancer all different kinds of things, and I think that that's one of the things we need to bring awareness is to this, so that we can do more things to help women.

KING: It's terrific having you as a friend.

M. OSMOND: I love you, Larry. You're going to have fun when you fly tomorrow.

KING: No I'm not. I'll take the train and wear whites, OK.

M. OSMOND: You're a good man.

KING: Don't forget, the Children's Miracle Network this weekend, June 3 and June 4. Tomorrow night, John and Patsy Ramsey and Steven Thomas, the detective who wrote a bestselling book implicating them in the murder of JonBenet. They'll all be on together, John, Patsy and Steven, together for the full hour tomorrow night, and then our anniversary show is Thursday and Friday.

Stay tuned for CNN "NEWSSTAND."

From Washington with Marie Osmond, I'm Larry King. Good night.



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