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Larry King Live
How Can Women Make Beauty Last, Inside and Out?Aired June 8, 2000 - 9:00 p.m. ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, Leeza Gibbons is sitting in for Larry King. The topic: beauty that lasts, inside and out. Joining Leeza, a star from the Golden Days of MGM musicals, actress entertainer Debbie Reynolds; another jewel in the MGM crown, and like Debbie a former Oscar nominee, Janet Leigh; from Rome, the woman who made millions of men say yes to the James Bond movie "Dr. No," Ursula Andress; back in L.A., one of the silver screen's cool, classically beautiful blonds, Tippi Hedren; and in New York, actress, author and beauty expert Arlene Dahl. It's all next, on LARRY KING LIVE.
LEEZA GIBBONS, GUEST HOST: Welcome to our rather glamorous pajama party. Thanks for tuning in. I'm Leeza Gibbons, sitting in for Larry King.
We've got girl talk tonight of the star-studded variety. What happens when a Hollywood sex symbol, a glamour queen or a knockout girl next door gets older. Joining us, five remarkable women who've celebrated a lot of birthdays but still know how to push those beauty buttons: In Los Angeles, the unsinkable Debbie Reynolds, Janet Leigh, who worked with both Alfred Hitchcock and Orson Welles; in Rome, we have Ursula Andress, the original Bond girl; and also with me in Los Angeles, actress and animal protection activist Tippi Hedren; in New York, one of Hollywood's ravishing redheads and author of numerous beauty books, Arlene Dahl.
Welcome ladies. I can't wait to get into this with you.
DEBBIE REYNOLDS, ACTRESS: We should have worn pajamas.
GIBBONS: We should have.
REYNOLDS: We should have worn very sexy nightgowns and had Larry be here.
GIBBONS: Larry is missing it. Forget it, Larry is missing it wherever you are.
REYNOLDS: But he had baby, so he's not missing it, right?
GIBBONS: That's true; he has it all.
Youth is a temporary gift. What's that?
ARLENE DAHL, ACTRESS: I said I feel like this more than a pajama party. I think it's an old home week, because Debbie, and Janet and I used to report at MGM for our films, and of course, I know Ursula in Rome and Tippi from Paramount. So hello everybody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Arlene.
URSULA ANDRESS, ACTRESS: Hello.
white: Arlene, I have to say this now, because Arlene, I don't know why she ever went into makeup. She would arrive in makeup, we would arrive looking really grunge -- you know, no hair, and I mean, no hair done and no makeup, and jeans or something; she would arrive same time impeccably dressed, perfection on her face, and I'm saying, why she did she even come in? She didn't need to come in?
GIBBONS: Full tilt all the time.
Well, Arlene, your husband said at one time he never even saw you without makeup.
DAHL: Well, I don't think he said that. I think the words were put in his mouth, but that's all right.
GIBBONS: All right, one of those vicious rumors.
Let's talk for a minute, though, about youth. It's a temporary gift. We must all surrender it. And when it fades, when it ripens into middle age, maturity, what happens to you and to us in terms of our emotional sense of who we are and to our marketability, our desirability as women? Tippi, you first?
TIPPI HEDREN, ACTRESS: I don't ever deal with age or any particular age, I never have. I don't think I ever will. I try to stay current with what, you know, the latest fashions are, because I think if you get caught in an age where you think you really look good and don't progress any further than that, I think that's very aging, but I really -- I feel just as young as I did when I was, you know, doing the films and whatever. I refuse to acknowledge it, frankly.
GIBBONS: You know what bugs me? It seems to me, Janet, that the -- that older people in general, and women especially, are really marginalized on television and in film. I mean, for instance, we hardly ever see a mature character have a sex life.
JANET LEIGH, ACTRESS: Well, it'd interesting. I don't know...
GIBBONS: And on that note...
LEIGH: I mean, I was married to my present husband at 35, and it was pretty good. So, I mean, I don't know how you define "mature." I don't know when maturity. Where is the line? I mean, what -- I'm like Tippi, I never addressed age as something that I had to say, oh, it is the 4-0, or the 3-0, or the 5-0, or 6-0. It doesn't -- I never really sort of think about it. I'm so busy thinking and doing other things that I don't have time.
GIBBONS: Well, I would say -- Arlene, see if you agree -- the standard of beauty has changed. I mean, you know, what 50 looks like now, you know, some directors in town will tell you good luck if you want to cast a 50-year-old, because most of them simply don't look it.
DAHL: Well, grandmothers are get younger every day. I mean, you can be grandmother at 30 now, you know. I mean, if you start early enough. But I think that age is a matter of attitude. And you have to change with times. You can't get stuck in the period that you thought you looked the best. That's aging -- if you don't change your hair, if you don't change your makeup, if you don't change your attitude, and some change their mates.
GIBBONS: Ursula, let me ask -- I think all of us here have done that once or twice.
GIBBONS: Ursula, let me ask you this, because you, you know, have a European experience and life history? Do you think that we are more youth obsessed here in America than anywhere else in the world?
ANDRESS: You're more youthful...
ANDRESS: I didn't understand the question. Obsessed with what?
GIBBONS: That we are "agephobic" here. With staying young, looking young.
ANDRESS: I don't know. I really don't know. I don't like -- like everyone else said, I don't have time to think about age. There are so many things to do, and I suddenly find out that I'm 60, and I get shocked by the number, because I feel like I'm 20. And I think to live, because it's going to be over soon, so I don't really have time to get busy thinking...
GIBBONS: It seems that none of you have been limited by your looks at all. I mean, would you say that's fair, Debbie?
REYNOLDS: Well, I think we all agree that really it's a state of mind. It's the way you walk. It's how you think -- well, everything is how we think. But we stay young we love. We're life grateful we have it. We don't think of ourselves as old, because it's just like a circle. I mean, we're not kids and climbing up. We are on this side, but we're also terrific.
GIBBONS: Yes. REYNOLDS: Yes, we're funny. We take good care of ourselves. We exercise. We eat right. We honestly -- I know all Arlene at MGM and Janet and I are like sisters, and she's very special and a wonderful human being.
I think also let's not forget what all women do for other people. Everybody here is involved in charity, something for somebody else, and that is true. Keeps you young.
GIBBONS: Let me breakaway here for a second. We can talk about that. And also these three ladies with me in L.A. anyway all have daughters who learned about beauty partly from watching mom. They are all famous. They are all beautiful as well.
I want to know, generationally, is it different, is it easier somehow for them? A lot more. We'll be right back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "WHAT'S NEW PUSSYCAT")
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Good afternoon.
ANDRESS: Good afternoon.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Might I ask where you came from?
ANDRESS: I fell from the sky. I'm a parachutist, and I missed my mark.
Where you going?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: To the Chateau Chantel (ph).
ANDRESS: May I use your telephone?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: By all means.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIBBONS: Welcome back.
Throughout the hour we'll be seeing some film clips, some of them vintage clips from some of remarkable guests today. And before the break, we saw Ursula Andress.
And it is a good question for any of you, but since that was a ravishing, young Ursula, let me ask you, what is it like for you all when you confront your younger selves, when you look at those images, and you were and are painfully beautiful?
ANDRESS: Well, thank you, what a compliment, but I'm always shocked when I see myself because I don't recognize myself. I -- it's -- I hate to look at myself in a mirror, and I never go and see films. The moment I sometimes see on the TV, I am shocked by myself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well we're not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You look so beautiful right now. You look super.
GIBBONS: But it's interesting, because for a lot of people, you are frozen in time. Is there a disconnect with the public between, you know, the myth of perfection and the reality that, you know, our most glamorous stars will age? I mean, you know, some stars, Janet, have gone into hiding because of it.
LEIGH: Well it's interesting, in my particular case, when you're an ingenue, and if you're a pretty young lady, somehow they never attach talent with that. It's a pretty face and a nice body, you know, and then of course when I started, you know, the body had to be there. You couldn't buy it, you know. You had to get it the hard way.
GIBBONS: You had to earn it.
LEIGH: You had to, you know, be blessed with it. And so it was hard, I think, for people to once they said, oh, this is a pretty, young beautiful face, that then they would never sort of acknowledge the fact that there was something there, a depth, and I did probably the three most well-known pictures of my career in my 30s. I mean, "Psycho," "Manchurian," and "A Touch of Evil" were all -- I was 35, you know, 34. "Bye Bye Birdie" was 35 -- '6.
REYNOLDS: They used to write for us, you know. They took us through the ages. They'd start us out when we were 16 and 14, like Elizabeth, was a little girl of 12, and so they'd write for her to put her into leading roles when she was only 16, 17. And they'd write for us right up through like Greer Garson worked until she was in her middle 50s.
LEIGH: That's what studios gave us, was continuity. They gave us continuity.
GIBBONS: And that's gone now.
REYNOLDS: And we could age. It didn't matter, and our audiences loved that.
GIBBONS: Well you know, was it -- you know, in the studio system when you were turned out, when you were told what color your hair should be or the arch of your eyebrows, and you know, what to wear and how to stand and all the rest of the things.
LEIGH: That's not true. I have to I disagree. I don't think that that's exactly what happened at all. Perhaps in some cases, but when you went were makeup, it depended what kind of a role. If you were playing a 16-year-old naive mountain girl, as I was in the first picture, I didn't wear any makeup, because you didn't want any makeup. The reason I got the role was because I looked that way.
REYNOLDS: Leeza, you're talking about you as Janet Leigh. You're not talking about the roles we played.
REYNOLDS: You're talking about the star.
GIBBONS: Within the system.
LEIGH: Right, but what I'm saying is the roles dictated the way that you looked.
REYNOLDS: For the movie, but she's saying as a star.
LEIGH: But as a star, they never told me what to wear, or what -- I would have to borrow something to wear to an affair because I didn't have money to buy one.
GIBBONS: Is it easier for your daughters than for you to compete in an industry that trades on beauty, where that is a commodity, and where sometimes women have to pick, do you go with beauty, or do you go with the brains?
HEDREN: I think it's always been difficult. I think everybody works hard at it. Everybody is always looking for a job, you know, since the studio, the whole thing where you were under contract, and you did one film after the other. That was, you know, that was a rather comforting time, I should think. I didn't do that. I was under contract to Hitchcock, and I did the two films with him, and that was wonderful. But now contracts don't exist any longer.
LEIGH: You're on your own.
HEDREN: You're always looking for job.
LEIGH: So it's much more difficult I think for our children than it was -- today -- than it was for us.
GIBBONS: I want to know, and I know people watching want to know, how do you do it? Beauty that lasts that is eternal, from inside out?
We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: What about the letter you wrote me? Is that a lie, too?
HEDREN: Yes, I wrote the letter.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: What did it say? HEDREN: It said, "Dear Mr. Brenner, I think you need these lovebirds after all. They may help your personality." That's what it said.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: But you tore it up
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Why?
HEDREN: Because it seemed stupid and foolish.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Like jumping into a fountain in Rome.
HEDREN: I told you what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: You don't expect me to believe that, do you?
HEDREN: I don't give a damn what you believe.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I'd still like to see you.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: You might be fun.
HEDREN: Well that might have been good enough in Rome, but it's not good enough now.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: It is for me.
HEDREN: Well, not for me.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: What do you want?
HEDREN: I thought you knew. I want to go through life jumping into fountains naked. Good night!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "TAMMY AND THE BACHELOR")
REYNOLDS: Mr. Bryant?
I said I suppose I lots of married folks argue.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I suppose they do.
REYNOLDS: But then I suppose lots of unmarried folks argue, too.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I suppose.
REYNOLDS: Well, are you going to tell me or not?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Tell you?
REYNOLDS: If you are, or you ain't.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: If I are or I ain't what?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Oh. Ain't.
REYNOLDS: Oh! Ain't.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIBBONS: Leslie Nielsen, very handsome.
REYNOLDS: That was his first movie.
REYNOLDS: I said I didn't recognize Leslie.
LEIGH: Me either.
REYNOLDS: Very serious New York actor, and he hated being in that movie, "Tammy," with a goat, and Walter Brennan, and Debbie Reynolds, who acts crazy, and Walter Brennan who's funny.
GIBBONS: And you were how old.
REYNOLDS: I was 22.
GIBBONS: But, you're -- I mean, you say don't recognize him, it's you. There was not a better girl next door than Debbie Reynolds, right?
REYNOLDS: Well, there's Doris Day, Janet Leigh and Jamie Powell and Ann Blythe.
You know, when Tippi was saying that she didn't get to be -- like it's a university at MGM. It was really like a school, and Esther Williams said that, and she's right about it, and we all stayed good friends, too. There was no jealousy of all the girls. Ann Miller and Katherine (ph) Grace said, we all love each other.
LEIGH: At that time...
DAHL: That's right, Debbie. That's right. I like to think of it as a finishing school.
DAHL: We had such fun.
GIBBONS: Do you think then that it's harder for today's beauties? I mean, Sharon Stone or Melanie Griffith, is it harder for those women?
DAHL: There's no direction, there's nobody looking after you, the studio system is gone, and I think it's very hard today for an actress. The difference between the days when we were at Metro and now,is we used to own our own clothes, we used to wear our own jewelry. We -- it's like "Cinderella," they borrow things; dresses are sent to them from all over the world, and jewelry, and they have to give them back at 12:00. I mean, it's not the same; it's not glamorous anymore, I don't think.
REYNOLDS: That's why a lot of stars are coming from models. You know today...
DAHL: That's right.
REYNOLDS: ... the models today that are so beautiful, Cindy Crawford, et cetera, are being sought after for films because they are that glamour. We have wonderful girls. You know, Sharon Stone is quite beautiful. Your daughter is a killer, Melanie, you know.
GIBBONS: What do you think Melanie learned about beauty, Tippi, from watching you?
HEDREN: Well, Melanie is very, very independent woman. She always has been.
LEIGH: Aren't they all?
GIBBONS: Jamie Lee I know is, too.
HEDREN: I think a lot of it, you know, rubs off when -- from what your parents do, from what your mother does and you watch. I used to sit with Melanie, and we both put on makeup, you know, this little tiny little postage stamp face of hers, and we'd put makeup on together when she was very, very tiny.
GIBBONS: I remember reading when she was in "Lolita," the remake of Lolita," and she played Blond, she that said it was kind of an adjustment for her ego, and that if she could take her head put it on 20-year-old body at that time, she would. I don't know why, because she has perfect body.
HEDREN: She has perfect body, she does.
GIBBONS: Would you ever go back, any of you? Debbie, if you could, would you go back?
REYNOLDS: Go back to having a perfect body.
GIBBONS: Twenty years old?
REYNOLDS: Oh, no. It's silly to even talk about it. You don't want to go back, because you really like what you know now, right girls?
LEIGH: Oh, yes. REYNOLDS: I do like -- I really feel that God has been a good to me. My life has been wild, and crazy and miserable at times, but I've learned a great deal.
LEIGH: But that's life.
REYNOLDS: Well, that is life.
GIBBONS: Why don't we value it? I mean, Arlene, why don't we -- we're the. You know, we're growing to being the elder members of the tribe, and there should be an awful lot of respect and stature that comes with that, and it seems that in our country, it's not valued like it should be.
DAHL: Well, I think it is important for a woman to mature and contribute to life. I think that keeps her young, keeps her mind going. It keeps her spirit involved. And course, I have three children. My oldest son is Lorenzo Llamas. He's working all the time. My daughter is with CNN right now doing special projects. My youngest son is a sculptor. And I have seven grandchildren. And that keeps me very busy. Plus which I'm working with the Pearl Buck foundation to raise funds for Amerasian children, and I'm working on bringing the Broadway walk of stars to fruition with city of New York, so, I keep busy. I'm also working on three books right now, and I write astrology column. So I don't get time to get bored. And I'm married to man who's 18 years younger, so that's a challenge.
GIBBONS: You go, girl!
We'll be right back. Give me a couple of minutes.
GIBBONS: The beauty bar, if you want to call it that, seems to be raised higher and higher, and my guests tonight are all women who continue to reach that standard. But when you look at how we view beauty in our culture, what -- how do you define it? Who defined it for you?
I mean, who was the standard of beauty for you growing up, Debbie?
REYNOLDS: Well, Debbie loved all musicals as far as films were concerned. It wasn't about beauty, it was about dancing and music. And that movie took me somewhere. We were very poor. Most of us were poor, and it took you somewhere. It made you say, that's wonderful, I could have that life. Maybe even if you didn't go there, you just felt so good. When you'd go to the films, it would cost a dime, and you'd work hard to earn that money. So beauty wasn't it for me, it was the talent, you know; it was Betty Hutton, you know, was not known as beauty. She was my favorite. Judy Garland -- and I loved Judy -- not, again, none as "the" beauty.
LEIGH: Yes, I echo that completely. For me, the beauty was what I felt from what I was getting on the screen, whether it was a dance number, whether it was an emotional pull at my heart, and the imagination of living all those characters, not thinking of being up there, but just the fact of being taken to all those places, and you became Madam Curie, or you were, you know, Marie Antoinette, I mean, you were everybody that you ever read about and thought. And so really I never thought about beauty, I thought about what it said to me.
REYNOLDS: They looked beautiful, so it wasn't about us ever striving to be beautiful.
LEIGH: It was what they did, and what message they sent.
GIBBONS: But isn't it a shame that it seems that we exist within an industry where image is more important than substance, and women of certain age that coy euphemism for being over 40, are just not given the opportunities.
HEDREN: You know, but the beauty and how you look -- you can make, you know, a good impression, but if you can't -- if you don't do anything other than be a pretty face, or whatever, that gets to be very boring, and I should think it would be very boring to just be a pretty face, you know, without having anything to do that's meaningful, that's important.
LEIGH: It's interesting, because people say, well, aren't you glad you are not doing those silly ingenue roles anymore? And I say to them, no, I don't consider them silly at all. I was 18, what am I supposed to do? I couldn't play "Psycho" at 18. And I couldn't at the age then play Rosie Rich. I mean, you know -- you play what your age is, you grow up and mature.
REYNOLDS: Well, that's what writers did do for us.
LEIGH: And the one thing I'm saying to you to tell Carrie -- I do it in novels. In both of my novels, there are great roles for mature women, OK, there you go. And tell Carrie you do the same thing.
GIBBONS: I've got to breakaway, but, Tippi, I heard recently that there was a role that you are up for that you did not get, and I want to share with the audience why you were passed over, when we come back.
GIBBONS: We are back. I'm Leeza Gibbons. I'm filling in for Larry King, and we're continuing our discussion about beauty that stands the test of time inside and out.
Joining us, five women who obviously know a lot about slowing down the clock. With me in L.A., Debbie Reynolds. This lady keeps a schedule that would exhaust a kid. Another Oscar nominated actress, Janet Leigh -- she has said, by the way, it's true, "Psycho" did put her off showers for life. In Rome, we have Ursula Andress, who walked out of the sea in "Dr. No" and into millions of men's fantasies. And, again, in L.A., Tippi Hedren, she's gone from starring in "The Birds" to saving big cats. And in New York, a longtime inspiration for the glamour impaired, Arlene Dahl.
So, Tippi, you're up for a role, I understand, as a grandmother?
HEDREN: No, I was up for a role as a mother.
GIBBONS: As a mom.
HEDREN: As the mother to Jacqueline Kennedy. And they said I looked too young. And I thought, well, you know, what's -- this is -- these are movies why can't they make me look the way I should, or supposedly, what they have in their mind. But apparently that's very difficult for some people to do. It's just amazing to me.
GIBBONS: But, see, is it true -- remember Goldie's character in "First Wives," where she said there are three ages for women. It's babe, district attorney, driving Miss Daisy. What you're saying, it sounds like that's kind of true.
LEIGH: And it's very frustrating.
REYNOLDS: It's extremely frustrating.
LEIGH: I find that sometimes, people don't really want to acknowledge how old you are, because then that has to make them acknowledge how old they are because you've been around in the business as long as they have. So if they know that I'm 72, they say, 72, that makes me 75. She's not -- no, no, no, no.
GIBBONS: But, see, you just put it out there, I'm 72. You have no issue with it.
LEIGH: I have no issue. I tell you, this is a true story, that I know of an actress who lied about her age -- this is true -- lied about her age. The reporter who asked her knew exactly how old she was. It's in the records. You don't have to, you know, it's not any big deal. And -- but she lied. And so to punish her, he added years to -- when he did the story, he added years to her. Boy, I never lied about that.
And when you say you try to look good, I'd rather somebody say, god, she looks good for 72, rather than somebody saying, oh, my god, she looks terrible for 60.
GIBBONS: Well, I loved Melanie's campaign for Revlon, I guess it was: Don't lie about your age, defy it.
HEDREN: You know what? Melanie did David Letterman one night. And David Letterman has a tough time talking to her. He really has a difficult time. And...
HEDREN: But he said -- he said, Melanie, how old are you? And she said, oh, I just hate it when people ask me. She said, my mom just hates it, you know, when I tell how old I am. She said, I don't know what she was so worried about. She had me when she was 12, which is very funny. Of course, by that time the whole issue was over, and he went on to talk about other things, which I find is best way to handle when somebody asks me how old I am.
GIBBONS: Just move on.
HEDREN: Move on, just make up a story.
DAHL: May I -- Leeza, may I make a comment on age?
DAHL: When I interviewed, Coco Chanel for my book many years ago, she said to me, she said, you know, a woman who will tell her age will tell you anything. So with Debbie and Janet and I, we had to have our contracts OK'd when we were 18 because we couldn't get our money, all of it, until we were 21. So our age is a matter of record. So we can't -- I'm 72, Janet's 72. Debbie was younger than we were, but you can't lie about your -- and why? Every day should be a celebration.
LEIGH: Here, here.
DAHL: Because the alternative is not something I want to consider right now.
GIBBONS: And that is...
REYNOLDS: I agree.
GIBBONS: That is true beauty. We'll be right back.
Stay close, if you can.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "GOODBYE CHARLIE")
REYNOLDS: OK, George, I didn't want to hurt you, but you're asking for it. Last Christmas, just three months ago, you were in San Moritz with a model from Harper's, Elsa Underwood. You were crazy about her. You even talked of getting married. But she got a telegram from Dick Avadon and had to rush to Paris for retakes.
TONY CURTIS, ACTOR: Dick Avadon my foot. That telegram was a phony. She came back to meet some guy, and they were shacked up in some hotel.
REYNOLDS: Paris, George, in a suite overlooking the Plaza Vandome (ph). It was me, George. I'm sorry.
CURTIS: You dirty rat. I should have known.
REYNOLDS: She was no good, George.
CURTIS: And my good friend Charlie Sorel's got to be the one to prove it to me, right?
REYNOLDS: Yes, you were getting serious about her. I couldn't let...
CURTIS: You double-crossing...
REYNOLDS: I did it for you, George.
REYNOLDS: My word of honor.
CURTIS: Charlie Sorel's word of honor.
REYNOLDS: You could have been badly hurt, George, and I didn't want...
CURTIS: That's enough, Charlie. Drop it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE BLUE ROOM")
ANDRESS: Have I come to right room this time?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Yes, Countess.
ANDRESS: I like countess..
May I offer my congratulations?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: You may. Can I get you a drink?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: I hope you'll be able to be there tomorrow.
ANDRESS: Of course. I want to -- I want to.
Please, I want to talk to you.
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Talk?
UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: All right -- talk.
GIBBONS: Ursula Andress brought to the U.S. as the new Dietrich. I can imagine there must have been a tremendous amount of pressure on you. Was there?
ANDRESS: Well, you know, I was under contract to Paramount. They wanted to make me into somebody which I was not. So I got so scared and rebelled, so they threw me out of the studio, because I never went to school. I never went to the --diction of the -- of the English, to acting school, because I was so scared because I saw them -- I'm going to be something incredible, and I couldn't live up to it. So I chose to run away.
GIBBONS: You said at the beginning...
ANDRESS: It was -- it was too, too hard on me.
GIBBONS: I can imagine. You said at the beginning of the hour that you didn't see what the rest of us see when you look in the mirror. Do you not feel that you look sexy?
ANDRESS: I hate the word "sexy."
GIBBONS: Because the three of us were talking about it.
ANDRESS: I -- I just -- I -- it is a word that gives me like -- I don't know. I don't like -- I don't like the expression. For myself, not at all, no.
GIBBONS: But when you...
ANDRESS: I like myself more -- pardon me?
GIBBONS: When you look at, for instance, the spreads you did for "Playboy," you look at those pictures, you have to appreciate the sheer beauty of that body.
ANDRESS: Well, my ex-husband took those photographs, and I'm -- I have no problem with nudity. I can look at myself. I like walking around nude. It doesn't bother me. I see all the people walking around nude; it doesn't bother me.
But I don't -- I don't use my body to seduce, no. I don't think so. I just -- I just -- stand there.
GIBBONS: What if "Playboy" said to you now, "We want you to do a nude spread"?
Janet says, oh please.
Would you do it?
ANDRESS: My god! My god, no, no! No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) offered me one about 10 years ago, and I said, no, I can't do it. No. No, no. I'm happy to cover up now.
GIBBONS: Now, why is that such an absurd idea, ladies?
LEIGH: Well, I think that with maturity, you also have a responsibility, because I, at my point, I have never thought that showing everything was -- was the most exciting. I have always found more interest in something that made me use my imagination.
GIBBONS: A little mystery.
LEIGH: A little mystery there. So I wouldn't have done it, you know, even when I was young.
REYNOLDS: Janet has size...
LEIGH: I don't mind -- I mean, you know, that's fine. I'm happy to stick them out there. But I'm just saying to...
LEIGH: Yes, and fine. And I got a lot of salutes. But...
GIBBONS: They're all serving them up here in the studio.
LEIGH: Oh, we're all just terrible now. But what I'm saying is that I don't think that just baring all -- and I'm not putting anything down, anybody who does it. That's fine. That's just my take on it, that's all.
So I wouldn't have done it before, and I certainly wouldn't do it now.
REYNOLDS: Well, nobody did. Harlow didn't do it. Lombard didn't do it.
LEIGH: Yes, you know...
REYNOLDS: Nobody -- and they were as sexual as anybody could ever be. Always a piece of chiffon or coming out behind the curtain. It's like the hidden treasure.
LEIGH: Something -- excuse the word, but titillate.
GIBBONS: We'll excuse the word.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good word.
LEIGH: No, but it is. That's what you want to do.
LEIGH: Yes, Arlene.
DAHL: Leeza, I'd just like to say something. Janet mentioned the mystery, and I think a woman who loses her mystery loses a lot.
A man doesn't want to know it all unless she's his woman, and then he can have it all. But I think if she shows it to everyone, they won't care anymore. So a woman should always keep a mystery about her. Never show it all.
HEDREN: It's very important to be very, very special, and have that -- that, you know -- I think people who kind of flaunt all of it are -- I don't find that very interesting.
GIBBONS: Are you offended by the level of skin that you see? I mean, for instance, on all the award shows, it's like up to here and down to here.
HEDREN: Yes, it's -- it's -- it's just, I think, just unattractive.
It's not that I'm offended.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) need to do it. They don't need to do it.
HEDREN: It isn't necessary.
GIBBONS: Tell me the secrets, ladies -- and anybody jump in. We'll get to New York and Rome as well. What do you do, Debbie?
REYNOLDS: Criss-cross Maidenform bra.
Jane Russell said it's her criss-cross Maidenform bra that keeps -- what is the...
I'm not -- I was never known as a, you know, the sex (UNINTELLIGIBLE). So you should really talk to -- I mean, Ursula Andress is a beauty.
GIBBONS: I mean, to your youth and your beauty and your energy and your vitality -- what do you do?
REYNOLDS: Well, I try retain all of that by being an interesting person, by studying. I've always studied, and all the girls here have said that. And you know, we never give -- stop your brains, because, you know, it's one thing, that we should all be interesting and as sexual as one -- as God gave you for that. Everybody has -- has a different libido about it.
You know, I myself make such poor choices in husbands that I'm always available. So I'm...
I don't -- I'm never -- I'm not the person to talk to about men anyway, because it's just horrendously frightening. But as far as desiring to be good-looking and interesting and wear really pretty clothes and keep your figure right and have a nice body that men would enjoy just looking at -- I mean, I think we all care about how we look very, very much.
LEIGH: No, I think of the fact of being alive. I mean, I am busier now than I was when I was younger. I used to have time to read for pleasure. Now I have to read for research to write my books. I travel more than I ever did.
I don't know. But I don't have time to sit down and barely read the paper.
GIBBONS: Stand by, and Leeza Gibbons sitting in for Larry King, and we'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE")
LEIGH: At the police station, they told me you had just beating up a very large Chinese gentleman.
FRANK SINATRA, ACTOR: Not Chinese, Korean. At least I think he was Korean.
LEIGH: A very large Korean gentleman. But that you were a pretty solid type yourself, according to Washington, with whom they apparently checked. So I figured if they were willing to go all the trouble to get a comment on you out of George Washington, well, you must be somebody very important indeed.
And I must say it was rather sweet of the general, with you only a major. I didn't even know you knew him.
If they were the tiniest bit puzzled about you, they could have asked me. Oh yes, indeed, my darling man, they could have asked me. And I would have told them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIBBONS: I have got five beautiful women as my guests tonight. But all of you have rich, fulfilling lives where you don't depend on your beauty to sustain who you are.
Arlene, do you find that beautiful women, though, are not taken as seriously? In youth, let's say.
DAHL: Well, that's -- that -- yes. Well, that used to be, of course, if you did certain roles and if you wore these clothes and you looked beautiful on the screen. And it took a whole department to put you out there to make you look beautiful. Then you weren't supposed to be able to act.
And I had to go to back to the theater to find roles that I could act in. And I love beautiful clothes. God knows every woman I know loves to look her best and loves beautiful clothes. But if you are an actress, I think you need to explore the different facets of a woman -- all ages. GIBBONS: I look at women like Susan Sarandon, for instance, who has managed to continue to work and get meaningful roles -- I mean, Meryl Streep, of course. But they're few -- few and far between.
Is it because there are men making the decisions and they have some male adolescent fantasy of what a woman should be or look like?
REYNOLDS: Well, men always ran the industry, so I don't think that's changed. They always did before.
LEIGH: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) powerful women coming in.
REYNOLDS: Oh, there are. Sherry Lansing. You have some wonderful. But they -- the performers today find their own product. The girls find their own. Sally Fields, Goldie Hawn, you know, Bette Midler, they buy their own books. They buy their own projects in order to stay right current with their age and be wonderfully gifted, which they are. We didn't do that.
LEIGH: Also there's a difference in product. I mean, "Boys Don't Cry" would never have been made when -- when we were younger.
LEIGH: And so, that -- that -- you know, there's a different -- there's a larger arena now where women can be taken as an actress and not just looks.
In -- when we started, it's almost like you had to wait until you were 29 and 30 and 35 before, you know, they would take you seriously as a dramatic actress. But...
REYNOLDS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) beautiful -- Michelle Pfeiffer is a wonderful actress.
LEIGH: Right, but you can also -- you don't have to be beautiful. I mean, Hilary Swank is beautiful, but she certainly isn't your -- it's a different kind of beauty. And the role would never have been made -- you weren't allowed to make those -- any, you know...
LEIGH: Any kind of realistic or different -- something different. Whereas today young people get a chance to do that much more than we ever did.
GIBBONS: I want to ask you -- they're telling me I've got to break away again. But now we know so much more about stars. You know, there is so much more available about them. And when you talk about mystery, that -- the -- it's been a complete unveiling. Does that help or hurt?
We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "WOMAN'S WORLD") DAHL: Jerry, I have a confession to make. I fell in love today.
VAN HEFLIN, ACTOR: How's that?
DAHL: I fell in love today. Desperately.
HEFLIN: Oh, with that young Mr. Andrews.
DAHL: No. With New York. Oh, Jerry, this is the most fabulous, exciting, thrilling city. Oh, we just have to be here. Well, this is where all the most important people in the world are.
HEFLIN: Carol, could it be that you're just a bit of the social climber?
DAHL: Well, if I am, then New York is Mount Everest.
HEFLIN: Suppose it doesn't work out?
DAHL: It just has to.
HEFLIN: I wonder what would happen if you had to make a choice between New York and me.
DAHL: Oh, darling, as if there could be any choice.
Why can't I have it both?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GIBBONS: I have got just a couple of minutes. I want to get final comments and find out what everybody is up to now -- Debbie.
REYNOLDS: Well, I'm on the road, working theaters, one-nighters everywhere. Hilton, Atlantic City, and Westbury, Long Island.
LEIGH: I have a picture coming out called "Fate Totally Worse Than Death." I have my fourth book coming out called "House of Secrets." A good role for us. And...
GIBBONS: And young.
LEIGH: And young, and young. I'm not prejudiced. And...
GIBBONS: Mix it up.
LEIGH: Yes, and I'm planning a TV special as well.
GIBBONS: Tippi, I know you're saving the world, as always. HEDREN: I'm saving the world. I'm saving a lot of animals. And I'm working on a bill, which I've been working on for four years, called the Shambala Wild Animal Protection Act, which is hopefully going to be dropped in the House and the Senate, with -- in this session, with Tom Lantos as sponsoring on the House and John McCain on the Senate side. And of course, you know as director of the Shambala Preserve.
And I've got a film coming out called "Storytellers." And I'm working on film preservation with American Movie Classics.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are busier than ever.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Crazy.
GIBBONS: Arlene, another book for you?
DAHL: Yes, my 15th beauty book I'm working on. It's called "Lasting Beauty for the Woman Over 40," to 90 to 100, and my autobiography, finally.
Ursula, first of all, bless your buns. It's like 3:00 a.m. in Rome while we're doing this.
GIBBONS: What are you doing? What are your plans?
ANDRESS: My plans are, you know, I'm -- I live here in Italy, and I'm going to go to bed soon. I visit my family in Switzerland. I -- I'm waiting for my son to come back from Africa, where he does some voluntary work. And I take care of my flowers and my cats. And that's living.
GIBBONS: Boy, it's such a different life, isn't it?
ANDRESS: And enjoy food.
GIBBONS: And she enjoys food. Someone to admit it with us. Good deal.
I have had a lovely time. It's not just your physical beauty, but it's your passion, your intelligence, your commitment as moms, and your ability to navigate yourself to this stage in life and continue to be fresh and reinvent. And that's what it's all about, I guess, isn't it?
Thank all, ladies, so much. I have certainly enjoyed it. Thank you, Larry, for loaning me the chair for tonight. Take good care. Good night.
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