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Larry King Live

What's the Best Way to Lose Weight?

Aired June 9, 2000 - 9:00 p.m. ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight: Does this woman look like fat is her friend? Well, Suzanne Somers, says it is. And she's here with the "real skinny" about her approach to food and fitness. Also weighing in here in Los Angeles, eating exercise guru, the one, the only Richard Simmons. They'll both take your calls. Sounds like a quiz show. It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

We're going to put both of these people on a desert island for 30 days. At the end of those 30 days...

RICHARD SIMMONS, FITNESS GUIDE: We've known each other for 20 years. We could get along.

KING: ... the audience will vote on which one they want off the island. That person will -- never mind.


KING: We're here to discuss diet.

SIMMONS: Is that the last thing you want to say? Is that your last answer?

KING: That show -- that show got whipped already. We're looking on now.

SOMERS: It's easier to be with your 15-month-old, isn't it, than with Richard?

KING: Same thing.


SOMERS: Same thing.

SIMMONS: See, she started already.

KING: Wait a second, we have -- both of these are laymen. They are not doctors, understand that.

SIMMONS: We're not nurses. We're not doctors.

KING: Both are very, very popular in field of losing weight. Suzanne, actress and entertainer with multiple bestselling books and videos, and Richard, the food and fitness guru, also with multiple bestselling books and videos.

So let's start with how do you know where to go? I mean, every -- you go into a store, there is more diet books than anything else. Really, what's right? How do you know?

SOMERS: I have to say, I just have to say, that with my program the food is so great. See, I could get you back eating lamb chops again. Remember, you told me that what your missing the most is lamb chops with the fat on it, and they're crispy, and you get to eat all the fat.

KING: No, that wasn't the question.


KING: You go into a bookstore. There is 80 diet books -- eat this, eat that, eat slow, eat...

SIMMONS: What do I say, because I've been doing this for 28 years. I've had my exercise studio, Slimmons, for 28 years.

KING: What do you say?

SIMMONS: I am an addictive. I would say that they have to go to a doctor and get a physical. That's the first thing.

If someone is overweight, before they buy a book, before they spend a dime -- and you know that about 70 percent of Americans don't have -- get a physical every year. You first have to know what your body is saying.

KING: Would you agree with that?

SOMERS: Well, I think -- you know, Richard does incredible work with obese people, and I think definitely that you have to go to a doctor, but...

SIMMONS: But what about a woman who hasn't to be on doctor in 10 years, Suzanne?

SOMERS: Well, everybody should go to doctor. You know, in Europe they think you don't go to doctors ever, and here, we are very proactive about our health. But I think if you need to lose 20 pounds or 30 pounds, you can go to the bookstore and pick the one that appeals to you the most.

SIMMONS: At 30 pounds, you could be a diabetic.

SOMERS: That's true.

SIMMONS: At 30 pounds, you could have hypertension or high-blood pressure. You must see a doctor.

KING: So in all case -- but you're saying don't see a doctor. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) think he's going to disagree with you, right?


SOMERS: No. Actually I have some doctors on my program. More and more doctors are tending toward this.

You know, Dr. Atkins started this whole thing of the high protein diet. No, no, no, there are great things...

SIMMONS: I have something in my throat.

SOMERS: There are great things about his program, and he's done a lot for the American public.

KING: With great dispute.

SOMERS: With great disputes. What I think is missing from that program is carbohydrates. I don't think you can deny yourself one of the important foods.

SIMMONS: See, Suzanne and I did not invent food. God invented the six food groups. They're dairy, fruit, vegetable, starch, protein, and fat. Those are the only six food groups. There's no more coming, only these six food groups.

SOMERS: Yes, but there a lot of fakes foods out there.

SIMMONS: And a lot things like you shouldn't be eating, but we're eating it because -- look, I have to tell you, I'm a compulsive eater. You talk about addictions in your book and I talk about addictions. I'm a compulsive eater, OK?

KING: You've been a compulsive...

SIMMONS: All my life. New Orleans, fried foods, selling pralines on the street corner. I'm a compulsive eater.

I opened up this studio because I built my career around my compulsion, and I believe that overweight people are treated like lepers in America.

SOMERS: That's true.

SIMMONS: And I picked this little teeny place Slimmons, and people come in. Last night I taught, there were people that looked just like Suzanne, and they were people who were 500 pounds.

KING: You still haven't answered the question. How do you know what to eat and what not to eat?

SIMMONS: I think you have to go to the doctor, and I have to -- you have to see what your cholesterol is, you have to see what your blood pressure is, you have to start knowing about your body, you can't dispute that.

KING: She says no.

SOMERS: Well... KING: She says you could have high cholesterol and eat meat.

SOMERS: No, not exactly that. If -- people don't understand that the new information that's come in now is that fat does not manufacture cholesterol. Fat does not manufacture cholesterol.

KING: That's not fact is it.

SOMERS: It's in the "American Journal of Medical Science."

SIMMONS: The Food and Drug Administration just put out what the president on a Sunday radio...

KING: Yes, we're going to get to that.

SOMERS: Can I just finish.

SIMMONS: You've got to watch the fat. And if anyone tells you...

SOMERS: Let me just finish. It is excess sugar in your system that the liver manufacturers into cholesterol. Americans eat too much sugar, and they don't know what sugar is. Americans don't know what sugar is. You cannot overeat fat.

KING: You're saying fat is good?

SOMERS: You need fat for healthy for healthy cell reproduction.

SIMMONS: You need fat, but you need portion control. The only way that anybody in my 28 years of doing what I'm doing -- and I'm a certified aerobic instructor. Last year, I took endocrinology and physiology. This year in September, go back to school to get my BS, and I want to be a doctor. Don't laugh, because in six years, I could be giving you a physical.

SOMERS: I know. I know. I know.


SOMERS: Oh my God.

SIMMONS: Can you think that? And we'll do it on...

KING: Wait a minute, I'm trying get some semblance of sanity here.

SOMERS: Can I finish my -- we need fats in our diet for healthy cell reproduction. Every -- we are made up of cells. You are, I am -- every human being. Cells are made up of protein, fat and carbohydrate. We need fat in our diet. You can not overate fat, the right kinds of fat. I'll explain to you. If I put a whole bowl of sour cream, a whole bowl of whipped cream, or whole of olive oil, you would eat to a certain degree, you would eat some of it, and then couldn't eat anymore, because... SIMMONS: That's not true when you're a compulsive. You've never been compulsive eater. When you say to somebody they can eat all olive oil they want, my thighs quiver. You know, fat has to be...

SOMERS: I think, you know -- I think we're talking about two different things, because I think a compulsive ...

SIMMONS: No, we're talking portions. But you see, in the radio address, President Clinton and the government never talks about the emotions of an overweight person. You can talk about emotions of one addiction, which is alcohol. There is drugs, there is alcohol, but most people, there is food. These are the six food groups, and I invented something called "the food mover," and when eat, you drop windows, so that you are accountable.

KING: What does it accomplish? At the end of the day, if you count your windows...

SIMMONS: Well, at the end of the day, you've had your calories, you've had your water, you've had your exercise.

KING: Is this a one-day thing?

SIMMONS: One day, and then all the windows go up, and then you read these little motivators -- I'm worth it. I'm going to be -- I'm going to say...

KING: You go nuts with something like this.

SIMMONS: No, because this is accountability. This is -- I -- for me to stay at my weight, I have to eat 1,800 calories day and 20 grams of fat. If I go over this, I will gain a pound to a pound and half a week. For instance avocado. One-eighth of an avocado, whether Suzanne in her book, or in my book, it's five grams of fat.

KING: What does the public do?

SIMMONS: The public's got to try.


KING: They're listening tonight. You're saying don't eat fat, you're saying eat fat. Neither of you are doctors.

SIMMONS: We both say eat fat.

SOMERS: I'm saying eat fat and watch your carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are what are going to make you fat, because carbohydrates are sugar.

KING: So, I mean, don't eat what? What don't I eat?

SIMMONS: Can I ask you a question?

SOMERS: High-starch vegetables, the obvious sugars -- cakes, pies, cookies -- high-starch vegetables -- white rice, white flour. KING: No bread.

SIMMONS: Wait, I have to tell you something.

SOMERS: Well, yes, whole grain bread is good, but at the right time. You can't have.

SIMMONS: I have to tell you what he eats for breakfast. Cheerios.

SOMERS: Cheerios. You eat Cheerios for breakfast?

KING: Yes. Well, I've lost 22 pounds in two years and I look pretty good.

SOMERS: No, you look great. But Cheerios, I love Cheerios.

KING: I didn't tell you to tell him, I just said I would whisper this to you, and all of a sudden now, you did that to me, and I...

SOMERS: Well, I didn't know that this was betraying you.

KING: Hold up, let me get a break.

SIMMONS: I thought I could have some...

KING: Let me get a break. Hold on. Hold on.

SIMMONS: I thought...


KING: We'll be right back. We'll be right back. Hold it. Hold it. We'll be right back. We'll have two interpreters present when we return. And as we go to break, here's an example of Richard Simmons and one of his video classics.


SIMMONS & UNIDENTIFIED MALES AND FEMALES (singing): Celebrate good times, come on!

SIMMONS: Have we got a lot to celebrate today.

Hey, do you all want to dance your pants off? Do you want to dance your pants off? Just clap your hands and move your legs. We're going to sweat. We're going to dance. We're going to have such a good time, we're going to melt those pounds away!



KING: "People" magazine does a cover, a story, diet wars. Diet books selling like hot cakes. By the way, do hotcakes really sell well? SIMMONS: Very well.

KING: OK, I just want to -- yet despite all this, Americans are gaining weight. So the president came out with this program, and I'm going to read basically what it said. Among his recommendations, use the food pyramid as a guide, low saturated fats, moderate total fats -- you're shaking your head already. It's the president who said this.

SOMERS: I know.

KING: Moderate intake of sugars, less salt, a brisk 30-minute walk five times a week. Some say it's too general.

SIMMONS: It is general, but it's a starting place, and we haven't had this start placing in long time. What he left out here -- that Suzanne and I will difficult agree in a minute, but what he left out here is he forgot about emotional struggle of being overweight and the stress that it causes. He doesn't address there are people out there who need help who are overweight.

KING: You're not talking about 10 pounds.

SIMMONS: I'm talking -- well, I had a girl on my cruise that was 100 pounds, and she said if she didn't lose 10 pounds, she'd kill herself. So to each person, it's different. To each person...

KING: That's right. If you think you're fat, you're fat.

SIMMONS: But at least this is some guidelines. It took the government -- and if only President Clinton would take Suzanne and I to become head of the President's Council on Physical Fitness, because we know more people and have helped more people than anybody really out there.

KING: That's not the answer -- I understand what you're saying.

SIMMONS: It was just a statement not -- but it was a plea -- OK, it was a cheap plea for the president.

SOMERS: But you know what, I think it is too general. I think what Americans really have to understand is the enormous amounts of sugar we consume. The average American consumes 42 gallons of sugary drinks a year. I love sugar. I love sugar. It's very hard to get over your sugar cravings, but that is what people are addicted to. It's the same addiction as alcohol...

SIMMONS: Not the sugar substitute.

SOMERS: The sugar substitute has Aspartame in it. Aspartame has been known to cause brain damage in laboratory rats.

KING: How about Sweet N' Low?

SOMERS: Sweet N' Low has Aspartame.

KING: Just got cleared.

SIMMONS: But the Food and Drug Administration...

SOMERS: Well, Sweet N' Low has saccharine. Yes, saccharine they took out the carcinogen list, I remember that.


SOMERS: So, yes, so use the sugar substitute. It's just that from very earliest age -- like you have two little children now -- you will find very soon what they want to eat are peas, pasta and then dessert. That's sugar. Peas are sugar. The body recognizes sugar as sugar. It doesn't matter if it comes in the form of a high-starch vegetable.

KING: But it's an energy tool for the body, isn't it? It's a fuel.

SOMERS: Yes, but here...

KING: What are you, noid? One minute you haven't spoken...

SIMMONS: I'm just meditating.


SOMERS: Here is what I want to say. Take off your clothes, stand naked in front of the mirror.

KING: Sit down Richard.

SIMMONS: Let's do it.

KING: Sit down.

SOMERS: Stand naked in front of the mirror. If you are thick through the middle, that means you have an elevated insulin level. What does that mean? That means that your cells have stored all the sugar that it can hold from carbohydrates that you eat. From that moment on, any sugar, even a carrot, which the body recognizes as sugar, will be stored as fat, for women, in the reproductive areas, which is the hips, the stomachs, the butt, and then after that's filled up, it starts filling up the rest. And for men, it's the gut, it's the beer belly. An elevated insulin level, you're on a track to disease. So I'm not saying everybody should be thin. I'm just saying, if you want to be healthy, live long, and do you not see old, overweight people. That's the bottom line and you know that.

KING: What was wrong with what she just said?

SIMMONS: My feeling is, as I said, the president has a good start with the food pyramid, and with what he just put out in his radio address. Where he's missing is the emotion that goes with being overweight, and I have anorexics on my -- I just did a cruise to lose. I had 300 people. I had 40 diabetics. I had lupus. I had -- you can name everything, and I had it. But what comes first, the chicken or the egg? The weight are the illness? You know, bottom line is, if you're overweight, it takes a toll on the body. So for 28 years, I've just said this: Watch your portions of everything, like yourself, and exercise. Now we would not look like this if we did not exercise. We may disagree about the sugar, or the fat or whatever. But I think both of us have to say that you must drink water.


SIMMONS: You must exercise, and you must east from all seven food groups. She has done food combination. I do portions. The person out there has to decide what they can live with.

KING: Do you agree with what she said about sugar or not?

SIMMONS: No, I do not.

KING: You think you can have...

SIMMONS: Well, both of us, again, we're not doctors.

KING: You've said that a lot.

SIMMONS: I use -- I don't use Sweet N' Low. I use real sugar.

SOMERS: Actually, I am a doctor.

SIMMONS: I use real sugar. I try to -- what I say to people who are trying to lose weight is if that they go back to the basics, go back to a chicken breast, go back to a baked, -- stop the lasagna and the fettucini alfredo, and the kung pao chicken for a while, and get back to eating four pieces of fruit. Most people don't do that. Go back to eating vegetables.

KING: Let me get a break. We'll come back with...

SOMERS: This is what my program is, yes.

KING: Let me get a break. We'll come back with more. Our subject is diet. We're going to discuss a lot of areas. We're going to take your phone calls.

SIMMONS: Did I behave better that time?

KING: Better.

SIMMONS: Was that better Suzanne?

SOMERS: Better. You listened. It was good. It was good.

KING: Will you let me get a word in.

SIMMONS: I'll do the commercial if you want to rest, or if you just want to have a child.

KING: Just say "Watch Suzanne at work."

SIMMONS: Right now, we have put together a clip of Suzanne at work.



SOMERS: You feel the burn, and within, a very short period of time, you start standing -- you know, we all stand in front of mirror and kind of do that thing. But it's stand in the mirror, and you go, I'm looking good. It's about staying firm when your body doesn't want to be firm anymore. This has been most amazing thing. Well, you can't see, but when I don't have my clothes on, you can see my ribs here, which is kind of exciting, because I haven't seen my ribs for a while.



KING: Will you agree, both of you, that when you hear lots of programs -- sorry to bother you, Richard. When you hear lots of programs, and lots of concepts and lots of books, that the public is confused.

SIMMONS: They are confused. But you know what, Suzanne and I can right now steer you in the right direction. You must eat from all six food groups.

KING: She's not saying that.

SIMMONS: Yes she is.

SOMERS: Yes, I eat real food, only real food. If you can hunt it, shoot it, pick it, milk it, grow it, you can eat it -- no chemicals. no chemicals.

SIMMONS: We're trying to say try to go back to basics.

SOMERS: Eat real food.

KING: That eliminates things like what.

SIMMONS: Whole wheat.

SOMERS: Manmade foods, fake fats, fake fats -- Olestra, margarine.

SIMMONS: Fat-free this, fat-free that. See, when you take the fat out, they put sugar in it, and they put fillers in it.

SOMERS: So you agree with me.

SIMMONS: Don't point at me like that.

SOMERS: No, but this is a nice thing.

SIMMONS: I feel like I'm on "The Practice."

KING: Wouldn't fat-free, sugar-free be heaven?


SIMMONS: No, I use real sugar.

SOMERS: I don't eat any sugar.

SIMMONS: I love sugar.

KING: But fat-free, sugar-free.

SOMERS: Fat-free, sugar-free. If they could come up with a sugar-free that is nonchemical, it would be fantastic. It could change country. It could it change the health of the American people. I mean, really, look at all these...

KING: But you eat anything -- you eat bacon.

SOMERS: I eat bacon, but I eat...

KING: You would give bacon to a 300-pound woman?


SIMMONS: How many pieces would ask you her to have?

SOMERS: I would give her three eggs, because that's what fills me up. What I have for breakfast about three or four times a week are three eggs, and two or three pieces bacon or sausages.

SIMMONS: Would you feel my thighs, because they're quivering right now?

SIMMONS: Did you feel them?

SOMERS: I did. That's very good. But what's missing from the this breakfast is the toast that you normally have with the potatoes, because for me a plate that is going to not put any weight on me is a plate that does not have anything on it that spikes your insulin. Insulin is the fat-storing hormone.

KING: I have a scooped-out bagel, just the bagel crust, but it fills me.

SOMERS: Right, but I know, I know, but that bagel is -- that bagel is accepted by your body as sugar. You are so watching your intake. You are just doing it another way, and what you're doing is working. And what Richard is doing -- I had Richard on my talkshow when I had my talkshow for that minute, and you were excellent and I saw the way he talked to women.

KING: He cares.

SOMERS: He really cares, and that is what is so great about you. A woman stood up, and he talked to her in a way that I would be afraid to talk to someone. He said, "Are your knees bothering you?" She said, "Yes," and he said "You've got to stop, you've got to lose the weight," and she started to cry, and this whole scenario took place, and I thought, you are providing such an incredible service, because you are dealing with the not what you eat, but why you eat.

KING: You would never give bacon to a 300-pound woman.

SIMMONS: Well, I would ask you make better choice than bacon, because bacon is all fat, and this where I disagree. I eat 20 grams of fat a day. It I eat more than that, I would gain weight.

SOMERS: And I eat -- I don't know how much fat I eat. I eat no sugar during day. I eat...

SIMMONS: I could eat a chicken, a tuna, chicken sandwich, but on your program, you can't have that.

SOMERS: No, on mine, I would have the tuna salad with mayonnaise, and all the things you...


SIMMONS: Yes, and I've got have the bread. I've got to have the bread.

SOMERS: But I would put mine in a nice lettuce leaf roll up like taco and eat it, because the bread is the carbohydrate, an when you put protein with carbohydrate, they digest differently.

KING: You don't have high cholesterol or heart disease.

SOMERS: No. My husband did. My husband's cholesterol went down 100 points eating my way...

KING: Eat fat.

SOMERS: ... having bacon, and eggs and fat, because, honest to God, it is sugar that manufactures cholesterol, it's not fat. That is old news.

KING: What are you praying for Richard.

SIMMONS: Peace on Earth. I -- no, I pray that people get educated and know that we may disagree on this, but the thing that we really agree on, and you have to agree on it, and all people out there, is you have to exercise, you have to break the sweat.

SOMERS: You do have to exercise.

SIMMONS: You know, and most people out there most people out there do not exercise. They browse in the mall, or they'll do something at their desk, or when I see a video, "How to Exercise in Your Car," you should be driving Phyllis?

SOMERS: Well, you could you use a Thighmaster in the car.

SIMMONS: I have mine on right now. See, you've got another plug-in.

KING: Let me get a break. I want to get into the mental aspect of this, too. We'll be taking your calls for doctors Somers and Simmons.

SOMERS: Actually I do have my doctorate.

KING: We'll be right back with more of the pair after this.


KING: We hope you're learning.

SIMMONS: They are learning. Did you just snort?

KING: Yes, you're damn right.

SIMMONS: You know, if you go on this, you're going to snort away your husband.

KING: What are you...


KING: You can't say everything is fat.

SIMMONS: For instance -- can I tell you something?

KING: Follow you your program, you will lose weight?

SOMERS: You will lose weight.

KING: Definitely.

SOMERS: Definitely.

KING: Bacon and eggs three times a week.

SOMERS: And you will be healthy, because my program balances your hormones.

KING: And if we follow your program, you will lose weight?

SIMMONS: If you watch your portions of all of the six food groups that God made, not either of us, and you exercise, and you drink your water and you get motivated -- we talked about this. The president needs to us motivate. Well, there is no P.E. in schools anymore. The nutrition books are old. We're not teaching kindness. We're not teaching how to you, know know -- there are so many people that make fun of overweight people.

SOMERS: That is true.

SIMMONS: And they've got to stop, because -- and the government won't give me any money.

SOMERS: I never understood the pain of weight gain until I got into these writing books, and the letters...

SIMMONS: And the letters you got.

SOMERS: ... the letters that I get from people.

KING: Why, folks, is there such -- in other medical fields, there would not be this disagreement that we have here and across the country.

SIMMONS: We are lepers of overweight people...

KING: Why is there such disagreement about what to do, what causes it?

SOMERS: Because the foods that we have been eating have changed. You know, in -- before the 1950s...

SIMMONS: No, wait a minute, tell them there's a lot of diets out there that are bad diets.

SOMERS: There are. There are fat diets.

SIMMONS: And if you take the word fad, and you know, you twist it, it becomes "daf." And either daffy people who are trying to lose 30 pounds in 30 days...

SOMERS: There are more obese today than ever before.

SIMMONS: Because we're not moving.

SOMERS: We're not moving. We're eating too much sugar.

SOMERS: How do you know what's a fad?

SIMMONS: A fad is something where you go own for two weeks, and they you have to you go off of it.

SOMERS: My program you stay on for life.

SIMMONS: OK, a fad is something we can only eat food a certain time, in my opinion. A fad is something...

SOMERS: My program you can eat unlimited portions, no...

SIMMONS: You can have a caesar salad, but you can't have the croutons.

SOMERS: You can't have the croutons.

SIMMONS: Hello fellows, When I want a caesar salad, I want to lick the croutons, but in the right portions. So where we disagree, is she is into food combinations, and you should get her book. Now they sent me the book to read that I wish I had here. It's "365 Days of Inspiration." Told me that's what she was going to talk about. I sat up to 3:00 in the morning. Thank God for eye cream. And I read the wrong book. But she believes in food combination, and I believe in food portions.

Where we agree is that you have to exercise, drink water and like yourself, because you can't look like this unless you look in mirror. And for all these people...

KING: Unless you have the right genes.

SIMMONS: Unless these people...

SOMERS: Yes, I have the -- see, there are three kinds of people,. There is person who's born with a perfect metabolism -- me. You're one.

KING: My wife eats anything, but size four.

SOMERS: Shawn is born with a perfect metabolism.

KING: Gives birth, two days later, size four.

SOMERS: Right, and she is lucky, and I was that person.

KING: She's watching and nodding her head to everything you say. She eats everything you mentioned.

SOMERS: She's beautiful. Hello, Shawn.

SIMMONS: Have you met her?

SOMERS: Shawn -- yes, I have.

SIMMONS: Well, I guess I'm on the second list.

SOMERS: Long before they were married. You take everything so personally.

SIMMONS: I'm half Catholic half and half Jewish -- what am I supposed to do?

SOMERS: Oh my God, poor thing, poor thing.

KING: Shawn was born with a perfect metabolism, so was I. So therefore...


SOMERS: So no, then when I reached age 40, my metabolism slowed down, and that is the most common thing that happens. People can eat anything they want all of their life, and then all of a sudden, they reach middle age, and their metabolism slows down, and so I continued eating what I was eating in my 20s when I was 40 and put on 20 pounds.

SIMMONS: And let me ask you this, if I said you could not use any of your "masters" anymore -- your Thighmaster, your Armmaster. If I said you couldn't exercise anymore, do you think you'd put on weight?

SOMERS: Oh yes, you have to exercise. We are in agreement there.

SIMMONS: Oh, wait, let me get a gold star.

SOMERS: OK. Now, what might happen to Shawn at middle age would happen to me, which is a big shock, is that my metabolism betrayed me. So therefore, you can't eat the way you used to eat, because now everything that you eat is going to be converted to fat.

KING: Let me get a break. We'll come back. We're going to include your phone calls. Richard has got a great video coming out the end of this year with Broadway showtunes. We'll talk about that, and we'll take your calls for Suzanne Somers and Richard Simmons.

By the way, Monday is the sixth anniversary of the murders of Nicole Simpson and Ronald Goldman. And in that regard, our guests are going to be Chris Darden and Johnnie Cochran together -- Chris Darden, the prosecutor, Johnnie Cochran, the defense attorney...

SOMERS: Oh, I want to watch that show.

KING: ... Monday night. We'll be right back.

Don't go away.


KING: Our guests are two of the best-known people in the field of diet and dieting.

SIMMONS: When do we get to the phone calls?

KING: Now -- Suzanne Somers and Richard Simmons are with us. By the way, it's reported that one out of every 10 children in America are overweight or obese.

SOMERS: Terrible, terrible.

KING: And they base that on the supersizing of junk food, right?

SOMERS: Yes, absolutely -- fake food again.

SIMMONS: I think it's that, plus they don't move.

SOMERS: Fake food and they're eating sugar. Once a child takes...

SIMMONS: Can you stop this with the sugar?

SOMERS: Because it's so important.

SIMMONS: My hair transplants are falling out.

SOMERS: It's so important to understand the effects of sugar on the body. Do you know that insulin must be present for food to be stored as fat? Insulin is sugar.

KING: I'm taking a call.

SOMERS: Did you hear that? Insulin must be present for food to be stored as fat.

KING: OK, let me take a call.

SOMERS: It's the only way.

KING: Kansas City, Missouri -- hello.

CALLER: Hello. Hi, Richard.

SIMMONS: Hi. Am I behaving myself OK?

CALLER: Yes, you look wonderful.

SIMMONS: No, but Suzanne says I'm not behaving myself so I've got to change.

KING: What's your question, caller?

CALLER: I went on this low-carbohydrate diet. My dietitian put me on it through doctor's office.

SIMMONS: And are you successful?

CALLER: No, I gained weight. My cholesterol skyrocketed. I then, as soon as I went off of it, I had a double bypass surgery.

SIMMONS: Well, tell me how you feel.

SOMERS: Did you eat enough vegetables?

CALLER: I'm sorry?

SOMERS: Did you eat enough vegetables? I mean, vegetables are a huge part of a protein meal.

CALLER: I ate...

SIMMONS: No, wait...

CALLER: ... tons of salad.

SIMMONS: ... but can I get back to you had an intestinal bypass, which means -- tell the viewers what that is.

CALLER: I had a double heart bypass.

SIMMONS: So what the doctor put you on is not working.

CALLER: No, and so then...

SIMMONS: So I say...

CALLER: ... I called your telephone program, and I got the Food Mover.


CALLER: And that works wonderful.


CALLER: I feel it's because I'm eating balanced.

SIMMONS: You're eating portions.


SIMMONS: And are you exercising?

KING: And how are you able to...

SIMMONS: Are you exercising?

CALLER: Yes, I am.

KING: Do you still have a lust for food, though, ma'am?

SIMMONS: We always will. I will always -- if there was a pizza stain right here, or even on her -- I'd lick it off. The compulsive...

SOMERS: And I wouldn't.

SIMMONS: You're not a compulsive eater...

SOMERS: No, but I have no craving for sugar.

SIMMONS: ... you're a compulsive sugar.

SOMERS: But I have no cravings for sugar anymore. Pizza is sugar.

SIMMONS: Oh, but I do. I must have -- I must have sugar. Instead of eating eight pieces, I eat one, and I enjoy it. And I lick the pan.

KING: You can have it now, Suzanne. You could have a piece of pizza.

SOMERS: I can because I...

SIMMONS: Are you drinking water.

CALLER: Richard...


CALLER: I'm also a diabetic, and...

SIMMONS: Do you have to prick your fingers and take insulin? CALLER: Four times a day.

SIMMONS: Oh, my goodness.

KING: So what's your question?

CALLER: Well, I just want to know why, if Richard knows why, when I went on this diet...

SIMMONS: Because it wasn't balanced. Either -- to me, if you're taking one of God's food groups away, it's not good for your body. He meant you to eat all six food groups in the right portions.

KING: Every day?

SIMMONS: Every day, seven days a week. when you eat -- if you eat seven days a week, you must exercise seven days a week. You have to pay the piper.

KING: Mocton, New Brunswick -- hello.

CALLER: Good evening, Larry.


CALLER: My question's for Suzanne.

KING: Yes.

CALLER: She had mentioned just before break that she lost 20 pounds. I was wondering how long that took you and what type of diet you used at that point?

SOMERS: I -- it's the program that I have in my book, "Somersizing." It took me the two months to lose the 20 pounds, and I really did not lose anything up until the very end, and I thought it didn't work for me. But what I didn't realize was that I don't retain water, so all that weight on me was fat, it was not water. So that initially when people lose weight, they lose that first flush of the water, the water loss.

It took me two months, because during that time my body was eating off its own fat reserves. And at the end of two months, suddenly it was like a melt happened. I lost it everywhere, in my neck, my chest, an even weight loss. And it was a beautiful weight loss because there was no sagging of the skin or anything...

KING: Now, you just...

SOMERS: ... and that's what I think is so fantastic about it.

SIMMONS: I just came off a cruise.

KING: You just lost 11 pounds.

SIMMONS: I came off a cruise with 300 people, and I taught every day. You know, I've been a certified aerobic instructor with my "Slimmons," and I lost 11 pounds because you have to climb stairs. You know, I teach class. These people never -- worked an hour every single day for six days in a row.

SOMERS: That's incredible.

KING: But you've got to eat.

SIMMONS: I ate 1,600 calories and 20 grams of fat.

SOMERS: It's just a different approach to weight loss. His works and mine works. It's just whatever you like. Mine works...

KING: So you could have a different theory and still lose it?

SOMERS: Mine's a different theory. Mine is don't...

SIMMONS: Hers is sugarcoated and mine is portion-coated.

SOMERS: Mine is not sugarcoated. There's no sugar in mine at all.

KING: Hers is unsugarcoated.

SOMERS: Unsugar. But...

SIMMONS: Oh, I'm sorry. Yours is unsugarcoated...

SOMERS: But on mine, I happen to like sauce and I happen to like -- I like fat.

SIMMONS: And for your, when there's no cake?

SOMERS: Yes, on my birthday I would have cake. But that's what I call a cheat. And after you've lost some weight...

SIMMONS: See, I don't call it cheating because I think it's not balanced.

SOMERS: And after you've lost the weight, then you can incorporate the things, the sugars you miss the most, in moderation. And that's how it works.

SIMMONS: Why can't you start at the beginning in moderation? Everybody...

SOMERS: Because you have to get -- for my program, you have to get the sugar craving out of your system.

SIMMONS: It will never -- you know when it will be out of my system?

SOMERS: It's out of mine.


KING: On that note, hopefully, we'll come back with both of our guests.

Don't go away.

SOMERS: Or maybe just...


KING: Something strange has developed between these two. During the last break...

SIMMONS: You know what? She sells -- I'm on QVC...

SOMERS: I'm on Home Shopping.

SIMMONS: ... and she's on Home Shopping, and so she -- did you smell her?

KING: No, I didn't. You've been...

SIMMONS: She smells great. She sells this jewelry that Teresa, my housekeeper, I have to buy.

SOMERS: See, he wants me to give him some free jewelry.

SIMMONS: I never...

SOMERS: Don't get -- there he goes again. Quick, bring in a caller because I can talk now.

KING: Anaheim -- you know, Richard, you know, why I like having you on the show?


KING: It makes me feel mature.

SOMERS: Me, too.

KING: Anaheim, California -- hello.



CALLER: I'd like to ask them both, how do they get motivated to exercise every day? I just can't do it. I just...

SIMMONS: Suzanne, why don't you go first?

KING: Most people can't.

SOMERS: Why thank you, Richard.

KING: All right, what do you do? Because you don't want to do it.

SOMERS: No, I don't really want to do it.

KING: No one wants to.

SOMERS: But I work out three times a week because I really think you have to move every day.

KING: And what do you say to yourself when you don't want to do it?

KING: And what do you say to yourself when you don't want to do it?

SOMERS: I just say -- just, yes -- you've got to do it.

You know what word is? "Commit." You can say: "I want to have a great body. I want to be thin. I want to be healthy." And all you will get is wanting. You have to commit and do it -- now.

KING: It becomes an obsession. Like I workout every morning. Now this morning, I got up -- it was in Chicago. I didn't...

SIMMONS: But it's because your heart...

KING: All the way home on the plane, I'm thinking: "I've got to work out. I've got to..." I worked out as soon as I...

SIMMONS: Yes, but it's because you had -- you had this surgery...

KING: I had an episode.

SIMMONS: ... you got scared, and you started to exercise. And it changed your life. It changed your..

KING: What if someone who doesn't have that? How does it motivate...

SIMMONS: Well, I'm a certified aerobic instructor, and I've been teaching for 28 years. And I learned from Gilda Marks and from a girl named Nina. And I opened up this little studio on Civic Center Drive.

KING: I know, but how do you motivate?

SIMMONS: You have to look in the mirror and say: I'm worth it; I can do it; today is going to be positive day. Many of these quotes are coming from Suzanne's book. I'm going make time for myself today. I'm going to like myself no matter what I weigh. Fill in some more, because you did 365 days. Give us two more affirmations from your book.

SOMERS: It just -- "commitment" is the biggest word. I will do it.

SIMMONS: Give me two from your book. I read the whole...

KING: She doesn't remember. SOMERS: I will do it. I will do it.


I will be -- I will forgive others, I will - who made fun of me. I will forgive myself for all the times I tried before.

SOMERS: But that's -- I mean, we're talking about a whole other arena there. That is the why...

SIMMONS: This is the motivation.

SOMERS: Exactly, exactly. And I agree with you.

SIMMONS: You've got to get up in morning, and you have to say: "I don't care what I weigh, I'm going to look my best. I'm going to make time to exercise. I'm going to eat some sort of way where I'm getting the six food groups. And I'm going to make inventory and count my blessings."

SOMERS: You know what motivates me the most? I swear.

SIMMONS: Alan Hamel.

SOMERS: I swear. It's true.

SIMMONS: Alan Hamel!

SOMERS: When I take off my clothes, there's a look my husband gives me that I love. And it's a kind of a -- up and down, and it's just so...

SIMMONS: Excuse me, I've seen you a in a leotard, and honey...

SOMERS: It's so great to be looked at like that. It motivates me.

SIMMONS: She's 53, I'm 52, so we're 105 years old.


What are you laughing for?

SOMERS: It's funny.

SIMMONS: Oh. Anyway...

SOMERS: Did that hurt your...

KING: What was your point?

SIMMONS: The point is: We look like this because we exercise.

KING: Toronto, hello.

CALLER: Yes, hello. I just wanted to first make a comment to Suzanne Somers. What is the nutritional value in a sausage or bacon? I don't really think that you're talking enough about protein. If these people were eating omega fatty acids, which have good fats in them, then they would be able to have the energy to work out and look good. I know a lot of people who eat sausage and bacon who have had heart conditions, and...

SOMERS: Well...

CALLER: I wanted to commend Richard Simmons because I recently tried to take the tough gun (ph) in helping a 600-pound man lose weight, and ...

SIMMONS: I got -- today I got...

KING: Well, let her finish.

SIMMONS: ... five letters from men who weigh over 700 pounds. You don't see these people because they're house-bound. I get calls from them every day.

KING: Caller...

SOMERS: May I say something, though, about -- because I feel that she was kind of attacking me there, and -- eggs are loaded with omega 3s and omega 6s. So eggs are really...

KING: You can take capsules, too, omega 3s.

SOMERS: Yes, you can, you can. But you can -- it tastes better in an egg than in a capsule.

KING: I hate eggs.

SOMERS: OK, so you hate eggs.

SIMMONS: Why do you hate eggs? That's a very...

SOMERS: So the sausage, the sausage is protein.

KING: Hated them since childhood.

SIMMONS: Little teeny white things, hello.

SOMERS: You don't have to have sausage. You don't have to have bacon. If you'd rather have a small, little steak or a chicken patty or something, it's getting protein, fat and a small amount of carbohydrate, will make healthy cells.

KING: Because there is no nutritional value in sausage. Fried sausage cannot have nutritional value.

SOMERS: You know, there's whole foods here...

KING: If it does, we'd all be online (ph).

SOMERS: There's whole foods where they have nitrate-free, hormone- free, antibiotic-free -- you have to be sensible about where you buy your meats, chicken and fish.

SIMMONS: Oh, that's very important.

SOMERS: It is.

KING: Why are making...


SIMMONS: Safety is important. And that's in the president's council.

SOMERS: It is. And -- and...

SIMMONS: People don't -- they cut chicken and they don't clean their knife. There's a lot -- you know, people right now, after this show -- and then they have to re-watch it at what time? 9:00?

KING: 9:00 and then 12:00...

SIMMONS: 12:00.

KING: ... on the West Coast

SIMMONS: But then, they should clean out the kitchen.

KING: Three hours later.

SIMMONS: And they should see: Is there's spices above the oven? Then those probably are old. Stuff in the freezer? All the -- a lot of processed food. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) once in a while. I have ice cream in my freezer. You know, I have -- I do. I don't have...

KING: What are you making a face for?

SIMMONS: ... bacon. Hello.

SOMERS: Because I just -- I guess. If they make...

KING: How about fat-free ice cream? You don't like...

SOMERS: Fat-free is all loaded with sugars.

SIMMONS: No, that's chemicals. I'd rather eat the Hagaan Daas mango than to eat now something that's full of junk.

SOMERS: And I would rather have a creme brule than an ice cream. Because it's very low...

SIMMONS: Well, I would like to have that...

SOMERS: because it's very..

SIMMONS: ... but my thigh says no.

SOMERS: That is true, but it's very low in sugar, and it's eggs and cream and you're...

SIMMONS: If I ate a creme brule, I would have to...

SOMERS: ... and if you had creme brule with a steak and vegetables...

SIMMONS: Are you -- let's have dinner together.

SOMERS: You -- and no potatoes, you would lose weight.

SIMMONS: You know, if they just checked us having dinner together, this would be fabulous.

SOMERS: You know, the thing is they're both -- your program and my program are great. He -- you have millions of people. I have over 2 million people on my program. People are losing weight and are happy, and people are losing weight on yours and are happy.

KING: Let me get a break. If I had a creme brule, I'd drive to the hospital. Well, I'd just wait.


SIMMONS: I would just get on my knees...

SOMERS: No, but I swear you wouldn't.

SIMMONS: ... and I'd do sit-ups and push-ups and I'd say: Dear Lord, please remove that from my body.

SOMERS: I could make you so happy, Larry. You could have lamb chops and creme brule with me. Honest.

SIMMONS: And you know, Larry, I'll make you a Caesar's salad, you'll never go back to Dantanas (ph).

SOMERS: Lamb chops and creme brule or Caesar's salad -- duh.

SIMMONS: Come on, come on.

SOMERS: Come on, Larry, come with me.

KING: The devil made me do it.

SOMERS: Lamb chops...


SOMERS: ... creme brule.

SIMMONS: Hey. Let me get you a nice, nice, nice fresh chicken salad.

KING: Anybody rather..

SIMMONS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) SOMERS: Let me get you a chicken picata.

KING: Anybody got any matzah.


We'll take a break, and we'll be right back. Don't go away.


SOMERS: I want to give it to you.

SIMMONS: I don't want it.

KING: Menomonie, Wisconsin, hello.

CALLER: Hello.

SIMMONS: Hi, Wisconsin. Kenosha, Fond du Lac.

KING: Speak.

CALLER: Hi, Richard. Hi, Susan.

SOMERS: Hi, there.

SIMMONS: Suzanne. Suzanne.

CALLER: I have a question I want to ask you.

KING: Hold it. What's the question?

CALLER: OK, now today, everybody doesn't drink as much water as they should. They figure diet drinks are going to take the place of water. And like, I don't drink diet drinks. I just drink a little of the regular drink because of what's in diets.

SIMMONS: You know what's better?

SOMERS: I agree. I agree.

CALLER: What's your opinion on...

SIMMONS: What's better...

KING: What's your opinion on diet drinks?

SOMERS: I think diet drinks are like drinking poison. It's Aspartame. Aspartame is dangerous.

KING: So you don't drink Diet Coke, Diet Pepsi.

SOMERS: Not at all. But if I was going to have one, I'd have a real one. I'd rather have the real sugar. It's a real food -- it grows.

SIMMONS: It's the real thing.

SOMERS: It's the real thing.

SIMMONS: Now for me, this makes 524 days, because I was addicted to diet colas and Snapple diet tea -- peach. I used to pour it all over myself. Please, you don't want to know.

I lost 16 pounds, and all I drink now is what you see we're drinking -- is water. For every ingredient you add to water, your body has to do something with it. So water is a purifier, and if you really want to lose weight -- and if you say no to this...

SOMERS: I won't say no. I'm right with you.

SIMMONS: ... I'm taking my clothes off.


SIMMONS: If you lose -- no -- if you drink water, you will lose weight more efficiently.

SOMERS: Yes, that's true. Water flushes the system.

SIMMONS: My clothes are on. Sorry, didn't win.

KING: Jackson, Michigan, hello.

CALLER: Hi, Larry.


CALLER: This is just such a neat opportunity to be able to say hi, but I did have just one question, maybe a statement. And it's: How realistic it is to actually ask people to take away things, such as sugar, from their natural eating process.

SIMMONS: I'll let Suzanne answer that one.

KING: Well, let her finish the sentence. Yes, ma'am.

CALLER: The only reason I that say is because from the beginning of time, you know, they said: Don't eat from the forbidden tree, and since then, everybody has eaten from forbidden tree.

And to me, I love Suzanne dearly and I have her program, and it works as long as I work with it -- just as many do. But it's the idea that it still is hard for me to be able to encourage people to do something that takes away something that is natural -- not in the process of what the food is -- but natural for people to eat...

KING: Well, let her finish the sentence.

Yes, ma'am.

CALLER: The only reason I say that is because, from the beginning of time, you know, they said, don't eat from the forbidden tree, and since then everybody's eaten from the forbidden tree. And for me, I love Suzanne dearly and I have her program. And it worked as long as I worked with it, just as many do. But it's the idea that it still is hard for me to be able to encourage people to do something that takes way something that is natural, not in the process of what the food is, but natural for people to eat sugar.

KING: Hardest thing to do.

SOMERS: Yes, but the question is do you want -- do you approach this because you want to lose weight? If you want to lose weight, you have to give up something. So I'm asking you to give up sugar while you're losing the weight but eat fat in the process.

SIMMONS: I'm not asking you to give up anything.

SOMERS: Eat fat in the process. Eat fat in the process.


SOMERS: And once you give it up -- it only takes about two weeks to get over the craving, as long as you...

SIMMONS: Well, I'm 52 years old, and if you had a Kit-Kat bar...

SOMERS: But you've never given it up. You've never given it up.

SIMMONS: Yes, I had one at point.

SOMERS: Completely, cold turkey?

SIMMONS: And then one day, I just all of a sudden went...

(singing): ... give me a break, give me a break, break me off a piece of that Kit-Kat...

... and then all of a sudden I had -- I have them in my freezer. I can't give them up.

KING: You're doing a -- you're doing a video with Broadway's tunes.

SIMMONS: First time. Toning videos and exercise videos...


SIMMONS: ... all done to songs by...

KING: When's it coming out?

SIMMONS: It comes out of the end of the year.

KING: What songs...

SIMMONS: Am I allowed to talk about this?

SOMERS: I think it's incredible. I can't believe... KING: Great idea.

SOMERS: It's a great idea.

SIMMONS: I've got L'Chayim from "Fiddler on the Roof." Thank you.


(UNINTELLIGIBLE) Barbara Montgomery. I've got -- I've got one from "Chorus Line." I've got "Annie." I've got "There's No Business Like Show Business." "Cabaret." "Shall We Dance" from "The King and I."

KING: Great. That's great.


SOMERS: Incredible. I would get that video. I think...

SIMMONS: You know what? I'm going to give that to you...

SOMERS: Thank you.

SIMMONS: ... because you told those people that I wanted those earrings for (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

SOMERS: I'll give you -- I'll give you those earrings for free.


KING: Rochester, New York, hello.

Rochester, hello.

CALLER: Yes, hello. My question is for either of the panelists.

SIMMONS: She'll get it.

CALLER: I'm a nursing mother. I've been nursing my baby for 10 months and I haven't lost any weight at all.

SIMMONS: Are you exercising?

CALLER: What can I do? Pardon?

SIMMONS: Are you exercising?

CALLER: Yes, I walk a mile a day on my treadmill.


KING: Ten months nursing.

SOMERS: Well, what are you eating?

SIMMONS: Have you been to...

SOMERS: What are you eating?

SIMMONS: Before we answer this...

SOMERS: That's the most important thing.

SIMMONS: ... have you been to your doctor to discuss this? Remember, at the beginning of the show, we're not doctors, we're not nurses. Have you been to your doctor and discussed this problem with him?

CALLER: I talked to a nursing consultant, and she just said that once I stopped nursing, that then I would lose the weight, because of the fat intake right now, that the baby (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

SIMMONS: Well, I would really -- I would really -- I always send anybody that has had a baby, anyone that has gained weight, you know, because of a problem, an emotional problem...

KING: Should see a doctor.

SIMMONS: I think you've got to see a doctor. Doctor Geller (ph), thank you for 18 years.

SOMERS: But what we don't know is what she was eating, too, because it's obviously -- it's obviously -- what she's eating is keeping the weight on.

KING: Is 10 months a long time to nurse?

SOMERS: No. My -- my daughter-in-law nurses until two years.

SIMMONS: Two years?

SOMERS: Two years, yes.

SIMMONS: Long time.

SOMERS: Well, it's great for the baby. It's great.

KING: We'll be back with our remaining moments with Suzanne Somers and Richard Simmons, after these words.

SIMMONS: Two years?


KING: If you're just joining and wondering who these people are -- not been near a television or come from another planet -- they are Suzanne Somers, the actress and entertainer, who has written a series of bestselling books and...

SIMMONS: You're reading this like James Earl Jones, for crying out loud.

KING: I'm not reading it. I'm adlibbing it.

SIMMONS: I think any moment she's going to get an award.

KING: I'm adlibbing it. This is an adlib.

Also, with us is Richard Simmons, the food and fitness guru, the multiple bestselling books and videos as well. They are two dominants in their -- dominants, T-S -- in their field without being doctors. And that's the big thing that we all hitch on.

SIMMONS: And we've e discussed that we're both going to go -- you want to be a doctor. You said you were going to be a doctor.

SOMERS: No, I -- I was given an honorary doctorate.

SIMMONS: I'm talking about...

SOMERS: I would like -- I could have been a doctor. I would have liked to.

SIMMONS: Why don't we do this together?

SOMERS: What I would...

SIMMONS: Why don't we go to USC together and go to medical school?

SOMERS: No, I don't want to. No, I don't want to do that.

SIMMONS: Come on. We could get a series and everything.

SOMERS: I don't want to do that. But I do think that both Richard and I are doing what I think is the best thing. We are doing well while doing good.

People are losing weight on my program, and people are losing weight on Richard's program.

SIMMONS: We have just two different...

SOMERS: Whatever -- whatever your approach is.

KING: But you love really obese people, right? And you...

SIMMONS: I love everybody.

KING: You're not...

SOMERS: I thought...

SIMMONS: I had people on my cruise that were -- that were very thin. I deal with -- we both deal with anorexic people, bulemic people. I used to throw up; I used to take laxatives. But I don't anymore. I exercise.

KING: But your books aren't for the grossly obese? SOMERS: I thought I was doing my book for 20, 30, 60 pounds.


SOMERS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I have had people lose 100 pounds, 200 pounds, 250 pounds. In fact, this woman that just called in about nursing, I have a letter in that book you just saw, "Get Skinny on Fabulous Food," from a woman who got pregnant, and she wrote me a letter and she said: "I am ashamed to say that when I found out I was pregnant with my second child I was not happy about it, because I had just gotten rid of all the weight and it was so hard for me to get rid of the weight." She said: "I started your program." She said: "When I gave birth, I weighed less than when I started my pregnancy."

And people were getting mad at her because they thought she was starving the child, and yet she was eating more than she had ever eaten in her life.

KING: And you get the most satisfaction when people come over and they've lost...

SIMMONS: Well, I travel...

SOMERS: Oh, it's incredible.

SIMMONS: I travel 250 days of the year, so...

SOMERS: He does. I see him on airplanes all the time.

SIMMONS: And you know, there is...

KING: You call people and you -- you get involved in their lives.

SIMMONS: Well, I have -- I have 11,000 files, and I'm now going to begin -- I have a Web page, -- and I'm now going to start files on my Web. So it will most probably go to hopefully a million.

KING: Hey, thank you both very much, as always.

SOMERS: Congratulations on your new baby.

SIMMONS: Congratulations.

KING: Thank you. Thanks, Richard. Suzanne...

SIMMONS: We're going to try to see -- I'm going to try to see if Mr. Hamel will let us do like maybe a little series of, you know...

KING: Her husband.


Suzanne Somers and Richard Simmons. Tomorrow night we'll repeat our interview... (CROSSTALK)

Hold it. Hold it. Hold it. With Leslie Van Houten, who was denied parole again this week. And Monday night, don't forget -- we'll bring them together, Chris Darden and Johnnie Cochran.

CNN "NEWSSTAND" is next. They're going to discuss the newest phase, fad in television, voyeurism TV. Hey, what's next?

Thanks for joining us, have a great weekend and good night!



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