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Inside Politics

Bush and Gore Take an Independence Day Break From Political Attacks; Lazio Touring Upstate New York

Aired July 4, 2000 - 5:00 p.m. ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GEORGE W. BUSH (R-TX), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Two hundred and twenty-four years ago today, a band of patriots pledged their sacred honor for freedom and independence. It was a day unlike any other day.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: On this 4th of July, standing in the shadow of Lady Liberty, we must resolve never to close the golden door behind us.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: You've got 4th of July fireworks, and we've got campaign fireworks. Plenty of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From Washington, this is INSIDE POLITICS with Judy Woodruff and Bernard Shaw.

BERNARD SHAW, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for joining us, and happy Independence Day.

July 4th, 1776 was a seminal day for the American political process, but 224 years later, this day is relatively apolitical, despite the fact that this is a presidential election year. George W. Bush took part in holiday festivities in Texas today, but, as our Candy Crowley reports, the Bush campaign probably didn't get much out of it except for some good pictures.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sweltering heat, kids and flags, horses and fire trucks, floats the state's marquee politician.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor George W. Bush! We're certainly honored today to have as our special guest the first family of Texas...

CROWLEY: A politician couldn't ask for much more, a purely Americana setting, Main Street in Belton, Texas, population 13,000, on a purely American day. BUSH: It was a day unlike any other day. For the first time, a new nation dedicated itself to liberty and proclaimed to the entire world its ideals, that all men are created equal, that government exists to be the people's servant and not their master.

CROWLEY (on camera): Bush walked the mile-plus parade route, joined in the final half by his wife. There was along the way nary a discouraging word and more than a few encouraging ones.

This Texas town is in a conservative but largely Democratic district which nonetheless trended Republican in the last presidential election. But the truth is, Texas is not exactly a battleground this year, and the world of politics was not exactly the buzz on the sidewalks of Belton.

(voice-over): Sure, there were signs and obvious supporters, but mostly for those who came to watch, this was a day about the sweltering heat and the flags and the floats and the kids.

BUSH: Today's the day to count our blessings, and they're all around us -- the friends we cherish, the families we love, the gifts of a prosperous land and freedom.

CROWLEY: In fact, the day was so devoid of political ramification that reporters, tracking the governor's movements from a flatbed truck, amused themselves with talk of how much time Bush spent walking the middle of the road, how many times he moved to the right and how many times he moved to the left.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Belton, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: And on this holiday, Al Gore is spending private time with his family. He left Washington for New York, where he will celebrate the first birthday of his only grandchild, Wyatt, whose 4th of July birth is one of Gore's favorite talking points on the campaign trail.

Well, Gore and Bush may not be paying all that much attention today to their respective searches for a running mate, but a group that promotes the election of women to the highest offices in the land offered them some unsolicited advice. It endorsed Senator Dianne Feinstein to be the vice presidential nominee for the Democrats and former presidential hopeful Elizabeth Dole to round out the Republican ticket.

Mosemarie Boyd, who is the head of that group, called American Women Presidents, joins us now from Los Angeles.

Ms. Boyd, what is this group?

MOSEMARIE BOYD, PRESIDENT & CEO, AMERICAN WOMEN PRESIDENTS: Well, thank you for having me. American Women Presidents is a new political organization dedicated to promoting the election of women presidents and vice presidents of the United States. WOODRUFF: And how did you happen to choose Dianne Feinstein and Elizabeth Dole? Why them over the other -- many other women in their respective parties?

BOYD: Well, they both have national appeal. They are eminently qualified to walk into the presidency, if necessary, and they've demonstrated outstanding leadership in national defense, international affairs and other critical policy areas, such as jobs and the economy and education.

WOODRUFF: But so have a number of other women politicians. Why these two?

BOYD: They've got star appeal.

WOODRUFF: Because they're both out in the public arena?

BOYD: That's right, and they've worked hard to construct backgrounds that would qualify them to be president or vice president.

WOODRUFF: Let me quote to you or cite to you a poll that was done late last year by the Roper Group for Deloitte & Touche. And in it -- this was done in late 1999. There were about 60 percent of the people who said that they expected in their lifetime a woman will be elected president. However, a third of the people who were asked, and more than that over the age of 55, said they still believe a man is more qualified to be president than a woman, in general.

BOYD: Well, I think that's a factor of how many women have served in the governorships and in the U.S. Senate and had military or international affairs leadership training.

WOODRUFF: And let me just cite you another finding in this poll. A majority, 51 percent in this survey, said they believe a man would do a better job than a woman, 12 percent, when it comes to leading the nation during a crisis. And there were also more who said they thought a man would do a better job of making decisions. How do you expect there to be the atmosphere favorable to electing a woman president when these attitudes are still prevalent among so many Americans?

BOYD: Have you read the Gallup poll that has been taken since 1945? In 1945, it showed that 30 percent of Americans would vote for a qualified American woman president, and in 1999, it showed that over 90 percent of Americans would vote for a qualified woman candidate. And I think that's the best response to that question. America is ready for a woman president.

WOODRUFF: But there still -- my point is simply that there still seems to be a residual attitude, if you will, that -- that -- on the part of many Americans that men would be better in a leadership role. Let me ask...

BOYD: Well, you know, Judy, I think what we're dealing with here is something that is not so much a reality but based on the fact that we haven't had a woman president. That's kind of the fall-back. So once we have a lot of women in governorships, and if we have women vice presidents this time around, November 4th, July 4th next year, this is not going to be a subject of discussion. We will have seen that women can do the job, based on the experience. And Senator Feinstein and Elizabeth Dole are both eminently qualified to be vice president or president. And I think that, you know, once they're given a chance to show that, American voters would see that it's not an issue.

WOODRUFF: Clearly, we've already had a woman selected as a vice presidential running mate, Geraldine Ferraro in 1984.

BOYD: That's right.

WOODRUFF: But there still is, as I was just suggesting, this residual resistance, perhaps, on the part of many Americans. And I guess the other question I have is what about the view that if a woman were selected, it would be seen as a risky move, perhaps done because she was a woman, not because she'd be the most qualified?

BOYD: Well, that is why Professor Allan J. Lichtman, author of "The Keys to the White House," attended our press conference this morning. I'm sure you've seen it. He was speaking on point that the VP pick will not tilt the election one way or the other, and he urged Al Gore and George Bush to choose women VPs or choose VPs based on other criteria, such as meeting America's diversity.

WOODRUFF: All right, well, Mosemarie Boyd, who is the president and the CEO of the group called American Women Presidents, we thank you very much for joining us on this 4th of July.

BOYD: Thanks for having me. Have a happy 4th.

WOODRUFF: Thank you. And you.

Bernie?

SHAW: The nation's best-known woman candidate spent this 4th of July with her husband and her daughter aboard a ship off their New York -- off their home -- new home state of New York.

CNN's Gary Tuchman reports on the Clintons and their role in the floating festivities.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This was a day for the president of the United States to proudly wear his commander-in- chief hat. Bill Clinton, his wife, Hillary, and daughter, Chelsea, were welcomed to the flight deck of the aircraft carrier the USS John F. Kennedy to review majestic tall ships from around the world, participating in Operation Sail 2000.

ADM. ROBERT NATTER, U.S. NAVY: Well, it's an opportunity to bring ships from our friends and allies overseas, fellow sailors who go to sea in ships, together. TUCHMAN: A swearing-in of new U.S. citizens took place on the deck as the ships went by. One of the women sworn in is a seaman aboard the Kennedy, Rosa Morales-Nunez, who was then given the honor of introducing the president.

SEAMAN ROSA MORALES-NUNEZ, U.S. NAVY: I am a little overwhelmed today by this honor and all the other attention I have received. This is my first hour as a United States citizen. I am so proud to finally be an American.

TUCHMAN: Mr. Clinton announced the Navy will honor the late admiral Elmo Zumwalt by naming its lead ship in the 21st century land attack destroyer class after him. But he also talked about the woman who introduced him and other immigrants.

CLINTON: We must resolve never to close the golden door behind us.

TUCHMAN: Earlier in the day, the president was aboard the cruiser USS Hue City, where he reviewed an 11-mile line of military vessels from 13 different countries as part of the sixth-ever international naval review.

(on camera): The president departed New York after the last tall ship passed the John F. Kennedy, but not after all the festivities. Sixty thousand fireworks shells will light up the skies of New York in the finale of the celebration.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: With the Statue of Liberty over his right shoulder.

And still ahead on INSIDE POLITICS: fireworks on the campaign trail, a look back at some of the explosive moments so far this election year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: What a picture. What music.

Well, as we mark the birthday of this republic with the traditional parades and fireworks displays, our Bill Schneider has a few thoughts on pyrotechnics and politics while on his holiday visit to London.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: What's the 4th of July without fireworks, Flag Day? And what's a campaign without fireworks, a political science class? Don't worry, you've got 4th of July fireworks, and we've got campaign fireworks, plenty of them. Grab a hot dog and let's watch.

(voice-over): There were some explosive moments in the primaries this year. Remember this confrontation in South Carolina? (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: That man wasn't speaking for me. He may have a dispute with you, but...

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: But he was...

BUSH: Let me finish, please! Please!

MCCAIN: He's listed as your...

BUSH: Let me finish! Let me finish.

UNIDENTIFIED MODERATOR: All right, let him finish.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: Sparks flew on the Democratic side, too. Here's a hot moment from the debate at New York's Apollo theater.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERT GORE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, racial profiling practically began in New Jersey, Senator Bradley.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: Fireworks are for celebrations. The biggest celebration this year had to be the night John McCain won the New Hampshire primary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: I think we finally have a poll without a margin of error!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: A lot of fireworks in that New York Senate race, too. Remember all the fuss over "Will she or won't she?"

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK SENATE CANDIDATE: I am honored today to announce my candidacy for the United States Senate from New York!

SCHNEIDER: And Rudy Giuliani was a shower of sparks.

MAYOR RUDOLPH GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK: I'm asking you to respect some part of my private life, if that's possible.

SCHNEIDER: Then he pulled out of the show.

GIULIANI: You confront your limits. You confront your mortality. You realize you're not a superman, and you're just a human being.

SCHNEIDER: And Rick Lazio was off like a rocket, a ground rocket.

Last month's Democratic Senate primary next door in New Jersey saw some heavy firepower.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FLORIO CAMPAIGN AD)

NARRATOR: Jon Corzine's campaign has sunk to a new low, using private detectives to spy on his opponent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: In both directions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, CORZINE CAMPAIGN AD)

NARRATOR: Remember when Jim Florio was governor, a $2.8 billion tax increase, 280,000 lost jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHNEIDER: Want to see a really big explosion?

SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: You've shown a contempt of Congress that borders on a supreme arrogance.

SCHNEIDER: Altogether now. Ooh! Ahh! For the big artillery, there's always the NRA.

CHARLTON HESTON, NRA PRESIDENT: ... especially for you, Mr. Gore. From my cold, dead hands!

SCHNEIDER: The tensest moment had to be the seizure of Elian Gonzalez.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Get ready -- they got the boy! They got the boy!

SCHNEIDER: But all's well that ends well. All in all, a pretty spectacular show. Time to go home now.

Bill Schneider, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SHAW: Come on home, Bill.

Just ahead on INSIDE POLITICS...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN GILLON, POLITICAL HISTORIAN: ... time reformers have tried to sort of stick their finger in the dike and stop water from leaking, they've opened up another gaping hole somewhere else.

(END VIDEO CLIP) SHAW: How reform efforts open the floodgates, a look at the unintended consequences that created today's campaign finance problems.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: A dramatic reading today of the Declaration of Independence at the National Archives on the 224th anniversary of that document.

SHAW: And as we celebrate everything America has achieved this July 4th, it might be worth remembering that not all great ventures turn out the way they were supposed to. Political historian Steven Gillon has written a new book on the unintended consequences of reform efforts, and our Jeanne Meserve sat down with Gillon recently to talk about his book, titled "That's Not What We Meant to Do."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Professor Gillon, thanks so much...

STEVEN GILLON, POLITICAL HISTORIAN: Yes.

MESERVE: ... for joining us today.

GILLON: It's my...

MESERVE: The name of your book...

GILLON: ... pleasure. Thanks.

MESERVE: ... is "That's Not What We Meant to Do." What does that mean, exactly?

GILLON: Well, the book tells the story of legislation that actually turned out to have just the opposite impact to what people intended it to have. So I look at a series of case studies, from the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to campaign finance reform in 1974 and a whole bunch in between, where politicians promised one thing and the results turned out to be the exact opposite -- not only different, but the exact opposite of what they had promised.

MESERVE: Well, since campaign finance reform is again a hot issue in Washington, let's talk about that example first.

GILLON: Well...

MESERVE: What was intended and what resulted? GILLON: If you go back the original legislation, for example, the 1974 Campaign Act, which really created the scaffolding of the modern system we work with now -- it grew out of the abuses of Watergate, and people were upset about fat cats and about slush funds. And one of the key provisions of the legislation established caps on both spending and contributions. The court threw out the spending caps, but it kept the contributions on individuals. And the idea was that this would prevent fat cats from channeling a lot of money into the parties.

But the fat cats didn't go away. What happened instead was they simply turned and created political action committees and funneled all their money there. So what you have then, by the end of the 1970s, sort of five years after the legislation is passed -- everyone's crying about the impact of political action committees. And one of the chief complaints is that they are taking away from the power of political parties, that candidates now, instead of turning to the political parties in order to get their money, are turning to these independent political action committees.

So the FEC, under heavy pressure from both the Democratic and Republican Parties, includes -- passed a rule which allows the political parties to solicit money outside of the 1974 regulations. And this tiny little loophole, which is designed to increase the power of political parties, later -- during the 1980s and especially during the 1990s and 19 -- and Bill Clinton's famous 1996 campaign, becomes the gaping hole where millions, tens and hundreds of million dollars of soft money is now being channeled through, and it's actually the main target of many reformers now.

MESERVE: Can the unintended consequences of legislation sometimes be positive?

GILLON: Yes, absolutely. And I think that's one of the points I try to make in the book. This theme of unintended consequences is something that conservatives have used over the past 30 years to beat up on liberals, and many of their complaints about liberal legislation is true. They have turned out to be different.

But the other point to make is that unintended consequences sometimes can be positive. People don't think about the GI Bill, for example, as being an unintended consequence, but in fact, it was. When Congress was debating the GI Bill in 1944, when Roosevelt proposed it, everyone was focused on the $20-a-week unemployment benefit that was a part of the legislation.

No one imagined that veterans by the -- by the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, would use the provisions that allowed for a free education to go back to college or that they would use the mortgage allowance and buy their first homes. And you see the explosion of suburbs in the 1950s. Much of it grows out of the GI Bill, something no one at the time anticipated.

MESERVE: Professor Steven Gillon, author of "That's Not What We Meant to Do." Thanks for joining us.

GILLON: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: And much more ahead on this 4th of July edition of INSIDE POLITICS.

SHAW: Still to come...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Behind the pageantry of the patriotic holiday, the increasingly combative New York Senate race continued.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHAW: Frank Buckley on pushing forward in the Empire State, holiday or not.

Plus...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL PACK, PRODUCER, "THE FALL OF NEWT GINGRICH": ... be just, you know, six months, average months on the Hill, and then everything changed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOODRUFF: An inside look at the fall of Newt Gingrich.

And later...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

"JACKIE STRIKE," VIRTUAL CANDIDATE: I, Jackie Strike, am an independent candidate for the presidency of the United States of America.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHAW: A high-tech option for campaign 2000? A look at one company's foray into politics.

Also...

WOODRUFF: Wrestling with controversy, a political misstep for Hulk Hogan.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: An eye-catching moment today, the president reaching out for his wife during their 4th of July appearance off New York.

Mrs. Clinton's Senate rival, Rick Lazio, may feel hard-pressed on this holiday to get anywhere near as much publicity as the first lady of the United States. But as CNN's Frank Buckley reports, Lazio vied for the spotlight anyway by hitting the streets and the Clinton administration's record.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY (voice-over): Hillary Clinton was on the deck of a U.S. Naval warship.

REP. RICK LAZIO (R-NY), SENATE CANDIDATE: Thank you very much. Nice to see you. Happy 4th!

BUCKLEY: Rick Lazio was pounding the pavement at parades in upstate New York. And behind the pageantry of the patriotic holiday, the increasingly combative New York Senate race continued.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Frankly, we don't have any super-carriers. We have to make do (UNINTELLIGIBLE) parades, and we're happy with that.

BUCKLEY: Mrs. Clinton's campaign was technically down. Her appearance at Op Sail was as first lady. But Lazio was on day two of a campaign bus tour, and he used an appearance before Korean war veterans to say, as a congressman, he helped to increase veterans' health benefits by $1.7 billion last year, in contrast to the Clinton administration.

LAZIO: They recommended a zero increase, a zero increase, nothing!

BUCKLEY: Lazio also saying the Clinton administration formula for allocating veterans' funds was hurting New York and favoring Southern states, including Arkansas, for which, he implied, Mrs. Clinton shared the blame.

LAZIO: When New York needed Mrs. Clinton to fight for veterans, for veterans' health benefits, where was she? When they were -- when they were fighting against that $1.7 billion increase, where was she?

BUCKLEY: While both candidates in the race are claiming the high road, they are simultaneously aiming a little lower.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, JUNE 13, 2000)

H. CLINTON: I think you're going to have a great time figuring out where he stands on issues because if you look at his record, it sort of depends upon who the last person he talked to was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BUCKLEY: Hillary Clinton criticizing Lazio.

ED KOCH, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR (Clinton campaign commercial): I like Rick Lazio, but I'm not voting for him. He's wrong on too many issues.

BUCKLEY: And running a series of critical TV commercials. LAZIO: And we're going to be all about making sure that we connect with people and remind people again that character does count, that it does mean something, that we need somebody who will represent us who has honesty and integrity!

BUCKLEY: Rick Lazio suggests he's the only candidate with the appropriate character values to be U.S. senator.

LAZIO: The Clinton camp would like nothing better than to drag me down in the mud with them. But you know what? I will not go there!

BUCKLEY: But in the same speech, he attacks Mrs. Clinton.

LAZIO: It's a fair question to ask our opponent. Can you name one single thing that Hillary Clinton has ever done for New York?

CROWD: No!

LAZIO: You might be able to name a few things that she's done to New York!

BUCKLEY (on camera): The intense effort on both sides this far away from election day an indication of how much is at stake right now. Voters already know who Hillary Clinton is. The race to define Rick Lazio is still on, and the winner of that race could very well determine who wins the Senate race in November.

Frank Buckley, CNN, Ticonderoga, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WOODRUFF: In response to Lazio's charges, the campaign of Mrs. Clinton issued a statement. Among other things, it starts out saying "Rick Lazio's rhetorical fireworks, all flash, no substance." It says, quoting once again, "Rick Lazio's rhetoric doesn't match his record. While Hillary Clinton worked to make treating Gulf war illness a government priority, Rick Lazio was voting to cut $1 billion from the administration's veterans' budget." And it cites a budget vote in 1995. The statement goes on to say that Mrs. Clinton was responsible for bringing attention to Gulf war syndrome and for creating the first presidential advisory committee on the syndrome.

Bernie?

SHAW: Turning now to Florida, where pro wrestler Hulk Hogan has been pinned down about his role in a political venture. He is featured in ads saying he will vote yes on a referendum next Tuesday which will decide the fate of a $300 million development plan for downtown Clearwater. But it turns out Hogan cannot take part in that vote because he lives a block south of the Clearwater city limits. The local Chamber of Commerce says it takes responsibility for the gaffe and will pull the ads.

Up next: Never before seen footage of Newt Gingrich the night his career nosedived. It's part of a PBS documentary on "The Fall of Newt Gingrich." We'll get a preview and talk to the producer after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOODRUFF: This fall, as part of its election coverage, PBS is airing a series of political documentaries, including one chronicling one of the most dramatic stories in recent memory, "The Fall of Newt Gingrich." At the heart of the program, the 1998 congressional election and its immediate aftermath, set amid the highly-charged impeachment debate. The following excerpt begins on election day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NEWT GINGRICH (R-GA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: We're going to win an election today. We're going to have more members of the House, more members of the Senate, more governorships, more state legislators. We're then going to modernize government, cut taxes, save Social Security and win the war on drugs.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: But there's also...

GINGRICH: That's not a...

FRANKEN: ... an impeachment. There's an impeachment going...

GINGRICH: Well, go -- you should go ask Henry Hyde. He'll be glad to talk to you. Thank you.

NARRATOR: Around 6:00 PM, Gingrich's staff begins filtering into the Cobb County Galleria, where they will spend election night.

CHRISTINA MARTIN, PRESS SECRETARY TO NEWT GINGRICH: He basically has interviews from 10:16 PM to 2:00 AM in the morning. And we'll turn around, and we'll do the morning shows. Power naps right now are extremely important!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had a war room set up for getting election results from congressional districts all across the country, so we were keeping track of what the results were.

JOHN MORGAN, GOP ELECTION ANALYST: Polls are not always accurate predictors of elections. You use polling. I mean, I don't want to take any less polls, but...

NARRATOR: John Morgan, Gingrich's election analyst, is tracking election results as soon as they come in.

MORGAN: We're living on rumors and anecdotes because nobody has exit polls yet, but everybody's feeling like this should be a pretty good night tonight.

That's very good! Yea, yeah, yeah!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) my shirt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it looks better than the red, though. JOE GAYLORD, SENIOR POLITICAL ADVISER TO NEWT GINGRICH: We still think it's going to be plus six or plus seven. And this was up until 7:00 o'clock that night. We were getting these kinds of totals from exit polls. So we said, "Well, not as good as the expectation we set but, you know, you can do a lot more with seven seats. It's a lot better than the -- than the current majority that we have."

PETER ROFF, POLITICAL DIRECTOR, GOPAC: She says it's a 1-point difference between Bunning and Basler (ph), and Basler's on top. And they say that western Kentucky and Louisville are going to decide it.

MORGAN: No, we're not that far down yet. I don't feel bad about that one at all.

ARNE CHRISTENSON, CHIEF OF STAFF TO NEWT GINGRICH: By 6:30 or 7:00, we had heard from Kentucky 4, which was not going our way. We had heard from Indiana 10, from Indiana 9, races that we hoped would go our way, that weren't going our way. In fact, we were losing badly. And those were three early bellwethers. So we were beginning to realize it wasn't going to be the evening we expected.

NARRATOR: At 7:00 PM, Gingrich goes to the war room to confer with his staff and get a handle on the situation.

GINGRICH: Hey, how y'all doing?

UNIDENTIFIED STAFFERS: Fine. Fine. How about you?

GINGRICH: Good. Very good.

I've been through election nights that are pretty tough, but usually, you can see them coming. You could understand it. You could discount it. You could say, "OK, we'll ride this out and rebuild." This was a night when I was genuinely confused. I mean, it was not the election I would have predicted.

Lungren refused to sign the "no tax" pledge and refused to campaign on taxes.

GAYLORD: Seven o'clock kind of comes and says it looks like it's going to be three, looks like it's going to be two, and then looks like it's going to be minus three, looks like it's going to be minus five. Looks like you could lose control. And it's, like -- you know, you go "What's going on here?"

NARRATOR: On the plus side, both Lee Terry and Helen Chenoweth are winning their races.

GINGRICH: What time do I need to get made up, and when do I (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

MARTIN: You need to go get made up in the next two minutes.

GAYLORD: The question that he did have was, "How bad is this going to be?" You know, "Tell me how bad it's going to be. What is the worst possible case?" I said, "Well, I think the worst possible case is that we could lose seven seats and have a one-vote majority." He was not pleased.

(BEGIN ON SCREEN)

Aftermath

November 4 - March 19, 1999

(END ON SCREEN)

MARTIN: He stayed up till 2:00 in the morning that night, despite the fact we were doing morning shows and a press conference which would require him to be out of bed probably some time around 5:30 in the morning. He sat with his family members. He consulted with his staff. He assured people that they had worked hard, that they had done well, but something had gone wrong. There was something we missed in our strategy

CHRISTENSON: Next morning, we put together call lists, and he immediately started calling members, trying to get a feel about where things were. And from the early -- early parts of Wednesday, we realized there were significant problems. Members who had been close supporters of Newt said that there was real unrest in the conference.

NARRATOR: Next a small group of congressmen try to stop Gingrich's reelection as speaker by announcing that they will not vote for him. They are led by Matt Salmon of Arizona, still angry over the budget deal.

REP. MATT SALMON (R), ARIZONA: I called several people and told them that I was not willing to vote for the speaker in the upcoming election and reminded them that with our small majority that it only took six people to make such a commitment in order to force a change in the leadership. And I did get right around seven people who agreed that they would be with me on that kind of a position. I went public with that information, and I think the rest is history.

FRANKEN: People were abandoning him. People were tired of him. They were angry at him. I think that it really surprised him that he had used up some reservoir of good will. So I think that couple that with the fact that his good friend, Bob Livingston, was saying, "I'm going to take Newt Gingrich on," which probably hurt him...

REP. BOB LIVINGSTON (R-LA): You all don't have some place to be on a cool day like this?

NARRATOR: Then Bob Livingston decides to run against Gingrich for the speakership.

LIVINGSTON: My wife, Bonnie (ph), and my daughter, Susie (ph).

BONNIE LIVINGSTON: Hi, everybody!

LIVINGSTON: I cannot say that I have a majority, but I do believe that when the dust settles that you'll see that I am the next speaker of the House.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. Livingston, if your friend, Newt Gingrich, were here today, would he be saying "Et tu, Brute"?

LIVINGSTON: Nice question.

REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I talked to Newt the next day, and I said -- and he knows I am a vote counter, and that he needs to go out and check out where the support is because all of a sudden there was some hard feelings about the election from some of our members.

GINGRICH: They were tired. They were demoralized. They wanted somebody who could shepherd them. And I'm essentially a very high- tempo, high-risk offensive coach. You know, I want to get things done. I want to take risks. I'm willing to be in fights, if that moves the ball towards where we want to go. And it was clear to me that I would have to spend so much of my time and energy placating and managing and nurturing that it wasn't a job I was capable of doing. I mean, I have real limitations as a human being.

I called Marianne and said, you know, "I think this is reality." She said, "Well, let me -- let me take a shower and come over." Our house is two hours -- I mean, two miles from the office.

MARIANNE GINGRICH: When we thought about it, we thought it'd be best -- we talked it out -- it'd be best for the country and for the party if Newt went on and did something different.

GINGRICH: Then I -- I began calling key players. I called Dick Armey, told him what I was doing. I called Trent Lott.

SEN. TRENT LOTT (R-MS), MAJORITY LEADER: At first, I was mad, and I expressed that anger on the phone to Newt, that the ingrates were treating him the way they were. Then I was pragmatic. I said, "Newt, you're tired. You're disappointed. Just wait a while. Take week or two. Be cool, now. Don't -- don't overreact. Don't let this thing get out of control and shove you overboard."

At which point, he said, "No, it's the right thing to do, and I've made up my mind I'm leaving."

NARRATOR: On Friday morning, Gingrich goes public with his decision.

GINGRICH: A bigger entourage than I was ready for.

And I think there comes a time when you've got to step out and let a new team take over, let a new team try to do the best they can, keeping the majority, winning the presidency in 2000, doing the right things for America are going to take every ounce of effort that the House Republican and the Senate Republicans can put together. And I don't want -- I don't think anybody should be a distraction. I think the country's bigger than all of us. The country's bigger than our party. And the party should be bigger than any individual. And I've tried to make my decisions in that kind of framework.

Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. Speaker!

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Mr. Speaker!

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think you'll become an elder statesman now?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) make any comment at all to us?

GINGRICH: We both looked really happy because we were really happy. I mean, it was like this thousand-pound weight was off of our shoulders, and the news media's ability to beat us around the head and shoulders was gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHAW: Now, since his resignation, Gingrich has virtually disappeared from the public eye, with the exception of the furor surrounding his divorce from his wife, Marianne.

Recently, I spoke to the man who produced "The Fall of Newt Gingrich," filmmaker Michael Pack, and I asked him if he still marvels at how up close and personal he was able to get.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL PACK, PRODUCER, "THE FALL OF NEWT GINGRICH": I consider myself very lucky. Newt Gingrich gave us great access, and...

SHAW (on camera): Why?

PACK: Well, I think -- it's hard to know. You know, I was grateful to get it. But I think he liked our previous show that we did on Congress, called "Inside the Republican Revolution: The First 100 Days." And he thought we would -- he would get a fair shot from us.

Also, don't forget, we planned this six months before the actual events, so it was supposed to be just six quiet months in his life. It was just going to be a day in the life of the speaker. It was going to be an easy fall congressional season in '98, a simple off- year election, and then beginning of the next Congress. It was going to be just, you know, six months, average months on the Hill. And then everything changed.

SHAW: When did you realize you were present at the beginning of the end?

PACK: It took me a long time to realize it. I may be slow. And not only that, I kept trying to make my original show. It took me a long time to realize that the show had become something else and that I was actually lucky to be there for it. It all kept looking to me like bad news, like, the impeachment seemed to be bad, the fact that they lost the election. How was I going to get my next footage in January? And it took me just an enormously long time, like, even into the editing process, before I actually realized the show that I had in my footage.

SHAW: How did Newt Gingrich so misjudge his troops, describing himself as "high-tempo, high-risk offensive coach"? He said the members would have needed nurturing, placating, managing, nursing. He said he would have spent most of his time doing that. How did he so misjudge his troops?

PACK: Well, I think he was right about them at that moment, which was that they wanted, after the election, a different kind of speaker than he could be. I think that he would say that he pushed them hard and achieved things and then burned out, but that having burned out, he has the achievements to rest on before then. Yeah, others might see it differently. Others might say that he could have done it other ways. It's hard to say.

SHAW: And then there's the political irony of Newt Gingrich having walked the plank, Bill Clinton did not.

PACK: Our show was really hinged on that. I mean, the battle between Clinton and Gingrich. At the beginning of our show, September, '98, Clinton had just admitted an affair with Lewinsky, and it looked like his presidency was in free fall and Newt Gingrich was on the peak of his power, maybe the most powerful man in the country. And less than six months later, Gingrich was out of office and the president was still in office.

But I think it's a -- we and the show with the question of who won that battle, and I think it's -- there are a lot of factors that go into it, and it's not so easy to assess.

SHAW: In terms of history, political history, the speakership and this man, where is he placed? And what does the viewer get from this intimacy?

PACK: Well, I think what they get from the intimacy is that our show is not an analysis of Newt Gingrich. We don't have a lot of pundits. It is a chronicle, it's a story of these last six months. And they get to see the political process working out at a moment of great tension, a unique moment in American history. They get to see the process work out.

I think that Gingrich will be remembered as somebody who had a huge impact on the history of this country. I think he did succeed in altering the direction of -- both of Congress and of the nation's politics. And then I think his revolution was based on this idea of shrinking the size of government and releasing the entrepreneurship of America. And he did do that.

He also had this amazing end, and I think history will weigh those things out.

SHAW: Last quick question. How much character do you think he showed by saying good-bye?

PACK: Well, at the time, I thought it was the wrong thing to do. But I -- now I think that it did show character. I mean, I think that -- one thing I was -- I'm struck by is Bill Clinton in the same position would never have resigned. That we know about Bill Clinton. He would have clung to power at all costs forever. And I think that is just not always the right thing to do.

PACK: Michael Pack, congratulations, and thank you.

PACK: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SHAW: "That's Not What We Meant to Do" runs 90 minutes. It's scheduled to air nationally on PBS on August 30th.

WOODRUFF: When we return: A new presidential hopeful throws a virtual hat into the ring.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SHAW: For undecided voters, there's now another choice in the presidential race.

WOODRUFF: That's right. A German company is offering up a technological candidate who is virtually human. Chris Burns looks at the candidate and her high-tech platform in today's Political Bytes segment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

"JACKIE STRIKE," VIRTUAL CANDIDATE: I, Jackie Strike, am an independent candidate for the presidency of the United States of America.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Yet another contender in an already crowded horse race.

"STRIKE": I'm in it to win.

BURNS: Now if she can just figure out that Teleprompter...

"STRIKE": Just over four months remaining before the government -- before the November election...

BURNS (on camera): If Jackie's got a bit of work to do on her delivery, her creators got their point across crystal clear. A group of German tech-sector companies are seeking U.S. business and investment by launching their own presidential candidate and wrapping themselves in the American flag on July 4th.

(voice-over): Their computer-generated candidate, her real likeness kept secret, is a way to show off some complicated technology.

CHRIS GOOLD, BOETTCHER HINRICHS AG: It tracks the movements of a person, transmits them through computer information to a virtual person -- in this case, Jackie Strike.

BURNS: Beyond entertainment or politics, it can be applied in e- commerce by making it easier to shop on line.

OLAF SCHIRM, CEO NO DNA: By getting in contact with this person, virtual person, they -- you can start selling over this figure, this virtual figure.

BURNS: And they're developing other uses for virtual people for market research, even for psychological counseling for children. The technology's been around for a while, with characters like the wacky talk show host Max Headroom and the adventure robo-heroine Lara Croft, and now as a presidential candidate with a Web site and software soon to go on line allowing interactivity with, yes, Jackie herself.

So where does she stand on the issues, like national missile defense, for instance?

"STRIKE": "Star Wars" was a good movie, but not a great plot in reality.

BURNS: And what about the line in her bio saying she reached the non-existent rank of Eagle Scout when she was a Girl Scout?

(on camera): Could you explain that part of your record that apparently is not exactly right?

"STRIKE": Oh, excuse me. That was a typo.

BURNS (voice-over): She's learning fast.

Chris Burns, CNN, Herth (ph), Germany.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SHAW: Can you imagine interviewing her?

WOODRUFF: She'd have all the answers.

SHAW: All the answers, whether you like them or not.

That's all for this edition of INSIDE POLITICS. We'll see you again tomorrow, when our Patty Davis will be on the campaign trail with Al Gore in Philadelphia.

WOODRUFF: And of course, you can go on line all the time at CNN's allpolitics.com.

I'm Judy Woodruff.

SHAW: I'm Bernard Shaw.

We leave you with another look at the tall ships in New York harbor. "WORLDVIEW" is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

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