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Larry King Live

Doro Bush Koch Discusses Her Brother's Presidential Candidacy

Aired July 31, 2000 - 9:00 p.m. ET


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight it's curtains up for the GOP national convention in Philadelphia.

Joining us, George W. Bush's younger sister, Doro Bush, Senator John McCain, who's released his delegates to vote for Bush, the Republican standard-bearer four years ago, Bob Dole, Bush campaign global policy adviser Condoleezza Rice, and another architect of GOP international policy, former secretary of state George Shultz, plus the honorable Ann Richards, former Democratic governor of Texas and Jack Kemp, co-director of Empower America and Bob Dole's running mate four years ago.

And they're all next on this special edition of LARRY KING LIVE at the 37th national Republican convention.

Good evening from Philadelphia, a special edition of LARRY KING LIVE. We'll be here all this week at our regular time this time. We'll also be back again live at midnight Eastern time with a live show every night, Monday through Thursday.

And we begin with Dorothy "Doro" Bush Koch. She is the younger sister of George W. Bush, who is now, or who will be on Thursday the candidate of this party for president.

How do you feel about it?

DORO BUSH KOCH, GEORGE W. BUSH'S SISTER: I am so excited, Larry. It's such a thrill to be here. George is a great candidate, and I'm a proud sister.

KING: I'll be. You're "Doro," just short for "Dorothy"?

KOCH: That's right.

KING: Did they call you that as a kid?

KOCH: Everybody calls me "Doro," and my dad called me that when I was little.

KING: You never met your sister, right?

KOCH: I never met Robin. Of course, she was born after -- after George was born, and so I've never -- never met her, but always wished I'd had a sister. KING: What was it like growing up a Bush?

KOCH: It was always wild and fun. I have four older brothers. My parents made life a lot of fun for us. And of course, later in life, it became very exciting. And who would have ever thought that I would have had not only a father who became president, but a brother, as well. It's...

KING: And a grandfather who was a senator.

KOCH: That's right.

KING: You're a dynasty.

KOCH: And a brother who's a governor of Florida.

KING: A brother -- you're the Adamses.

KOCH: Well, I don't know. But we -- we're very privileged and honored to serve this country, and I'm a proud supporting sister.

KING: And your husband is an active Democrat, is he not?

KOCH: That's true. That's true. He's an active Democrat.

KING: So you're like Matalin and Carville.

KOCH: Not exactly. I'm honored to be coupled with Mary Matalin, who I think the world of, but James Carville is no Bobby Koch because Bobby Koch is a Democrat for George Bush.

KING: Oh, he is?

KOCH: He is.

KING: Because in the past, he's supported Republican -- Democratic candidates, right?

KOCH: That's right. But of course, he has to live with me, Larry.

KING: Did he support Clinton against your dad?

KOCH: No, he did not. He did not. He...

KING: Has to live with you.

KOCH: Well, that, and he was not very fond of President Clinton.

KING: What role will you play in this adventure?

KOCH: I've been working for George for over a year and a half. I did fund raising at the beginning, and then I did all the primaries, a bunch of primaries for George. I went to New York and Delaware and New Hampshire and South Carolina and lots of states for George. And then I work locally in Maryland, which is not the most Republican- friendly state, but I think we can win it. And then, of course, I'm working here at the convention. And then I'll go out in the fall and -- wherever they want me to go, I'll go.

KING: What was -- all big brothers and little sisters have their moments. What was he like, growing up?

KOCH: George was a lot of fun. You know, George is 13 years older than I am, so I guess it was after college that George and I got to know each other better. Of course, when I was born, he went off to school and...

KING: That's right. You were -- he was 16, you were 3, right?

KOCH: Yeah, that's right.

KING: So you were that little person in the house.

KOCH: Yeah, I was the baby sister and -- but George is a great brother. He and I are very close. He was just always fun, always had a sparkle and a twinkle and made life fun.

KING: Were you surprised at how well he's done in politics?

KOCH: I'm not surprised because George has all the skills to be a great leader. He was a late bloomer and...

KING: Yeah, that's what I mean. Everyone thought...

KOCH: And people have...

KING: ... it would be Jeb here tonight, right?

KOCH: Well, that's true...

KING: If you look 20 years ago, you would have said Jeb.

KOCH: That's true, but obviously, George has a lot of good leadership skills, as well. I've got four very talented brothers, I have to say, and we're proud of George.

KING: Now, your dad's going to be with us tomorrow night.

KOCH: He's here. Oh, here on...

KING: I know, but he's on this program tomorrow night.

KOCH: Oh, good.

KING: And it's always great seeing him. He gets younger, your father.

KOCH: He does. He does.

KING: And your mother, the true matriarch of this family, right?

KOCH: Well, that's true. She's definitely the boss. And of course, George takes after my mother a lot. They both have a quick wit, and both are -- have great discipline. And so they're -- they've been great parents.

KING: Was politics, like, always around you?

KOCH: The first job I remember my dad having was Congress. It was a congressman from Texas.

KING: And you lived here, of course.

KOCH: I lived in Texas, yeah, of course. And then -- so I've always been around politics.

KING: I said "here." I meant "here" being Texas...

KOCH: Right. Right.

KING: ... not Pennsylvania. And you went back and forth to Connecticut and Maine and...

KOCH: Maine was always sort of our center because, of course, my parents moved lots of times, and -- I don't know how many, but a lot.

KING: A couple of other things. What kind of -- you expect this to be a very rough-and-tumble race?

KOCH: I expect it to be a close race, but I think with George's pick for vice president and after this convention, I think it's going to be -- it's going to help George a lot. But I do think it's going to be a close and a difficult race. But George is going to run a positive campaign, and I think there's evidence here at the convention, because he's not going to have the night, the tearing-down night, with...

KING: There's no keynoter. There's no...

KOCH: No. No. And I think George is going to -- he'll -- he'll counter-punch, if necessary, but he will...

KING: He won't throw the first...

KOCH: No, he won't.

KING: ... salvo. And tell us a little bit, in the minute remaining, about your sister-in-law.

KOCH: My sister-in-law...

KING: We're going to -- everyone's going to see her in an hour.

KOCH: I am really excited about tonight because everyone's going to get to know Laura Bush. Laura's been an outstanding first lady of Texas. She, of course, was a former librarian and teacher, and she has done great things in Texas for literacy, and she's been an advocate of children's issues. But more than that, I think people are going to love her style, her charm. And she's a strong woman. KING: Yeah. She enters...

KOCH: And a great...

KING: She enters...

KOCH: ... great partner for George.

KING: She enters the room well.

KOCH: She does.

KING: Yeah.

KOCH: She's lovely and beautiful on the inside.

KING: So are you. Thanks, Doro.

KOCH: Thank you, Larry, for having me.

KING: Doro Bush Koch, the younger sister of the Bush boys, all of the Bush boys. She's the baby.

When we come back: Senator John McCain of Arizona. Don't go away.


KING: We're at the 37th annual -- or not annual, quadruple Republican convention. They meet every four years. We're in downtown Philadelphia. And that's the scene, and there is the former president and his wife, George Bush and Barbara bush. Their son will be anointed here on Thursday. George Bush will be our guest tomorrow night on this special edition of LARRY KING LIVE at 9:00 o'clock Eastern.

We now are joined by Senator John McCain. He's at the Sheraton Society Hill -- joining us. He will speak to this convention tomorrow night. We'll spend a few moments with him, and then former senator Bob Dole.

John, were you disappointed at the "shadow convention" yesterday when you got booed?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: No, it was a lot of fun, Larry. You got to -- you got to go into the enemy camp and have fun and -- look, there was a lot of people that agreed with me. You know, one of the things that was missing in the story, when I said I supported Governor Bush, there was a lot of people that applauded. There was a lot of people that didn't. That made it a lot of fun. And look, we got to get those independent voters. We got to -- we got to go out in their territory. And basically, that's why I think Governor Bush is doing so well is that he's -- he's going out and playing on the enemy's turf, and I think he's doing a good job at it.

KING: Were you surprised at some hostility at all, or did you expect it?

MCCAIN: Oh, I felt -- I felt -- it was an eclectic group.


KING: To say the least!

MCCAIN: So I sure expected it. But look, it's not the first time I've been heckled, nor the last, I hope, because I enjoy that.

KING: Is it tough for you, Senator, to -- emotionally, now -- to support Governor Bush because, as well all know -- I sat between you in South Carolina. There was a lot of hostility there. Is it hard for you?

MCCAIN: No, Larry. Look, that's behind me. That's over. That's behind us. Americans don't like sore losers, and I'm not going to be one. We fought the good fight, and I'm proud of it. Governor Bush won. I said all along I would support the nominee of the party. Our relationship is cordial. I'm looking forward to campaigning with him after the convention is over, and I'm going to do everything I can to elect him.

KING: Anything about the platform disappoint you?

MCCAIN: I think the -- you know, in the interests of straight talk, the platform becomes less and less relevant. Somebody said a long time ago it's what candidates stand on during the convention and run away from during the campaign. So I wasn't too concerned about it. Obviously, I'll continue my advocacy for reform and also campaign finance reform, but that battle's not going to be won in what's written in a platform. It's going to be won in the court of American public opinion.

KING: Do you think you'll ever see your goal attained? Do you think you'll ever see campaign finance reform in this country, as you see it?

MCCAIN: The problem has become so pervasive, and the evil is so pernicious and so penetrating in American political life, I know we will have campaign finance reform. We have majorities in both houses -- look, there was just a fund-raiser held where you could buy a ticket for $500,000. Don't tell me that people buy a ticket to a political fund-raiser for $500,000 because they want good government.

"The Washington Post" not too long ago said the officeholders in Washington aren't for sale, but the offices are. They got it right.

KING: And when you -- when you're given a lot of money, frankly, you have to take the call, don't you?

MCCAIN: Absolutely. And there is -- the United States Supreme Court a few months ago declared, and I think I quote accurately, too much money in America, in American politics, corrupts the process and alienates the voter. And we had the lowest voter turn-out in history in 1998. I hope and pray we do not have that same occurrence in this November, but I'm afraid we will because young people, particularly, feel they're disconnected from the process because of the influence of special interests. And guess what? They are.

KING: Were you ever interested in those stories that you were -- you got suddenly interested in the vice presidency? Was that ever true?

MCCAIN: No, Larry, it wasn't. I appreciate the enthusiasm of some of my supporters and party elders who wanted to contact me. But when I asked Governor Bush not to consider me in our meeting in Pittsburgh, he honored that request. I was never in the process, and I'm very pleased and proud that an old friend of mine, Dick Cheney, is the running mate.

KING: Were you -- when the Cheney record came out, were you surprised at some of those votes?

MCCAIN: Not really because when you have -- when you cast thousands of votes, as Dick had, and the circumstances sometimes were under, quote, "suspension," where we couldn't amend -- look, I know of no Democrat or Republican that views Dick Cheney, when he was a member of Congress, as some kind of right-winger. He was widely respected. He was a leader of our Republicans in the House. And of course, people will judge them on their resume.

You know, I had my voting record selectively described in the campaign, so I know what it's like. I think that there -- every person, no matter how partisan they were, on both sides of the aisle, viewed Dick Cheney as an outstanding congressman.

KING: And in a nutshell, can you tell us what your topic is tomorrow night?

MCCAIN: Well, basically, three. One is we have to reform the institutions of government, and that includes campaign finance reform. But we also have to do everything we can not to be complacent and sit on this lead here and elect Governor Bush and Dick Cheney. And third, I'm going to talk about the greatness of America and what I learned about how ennobling it is and what this great opportunity to bring peace, freedom and democracy to the world.

KING: Thank you, John. Always great seeing you. We'll see you here tomorrow night.

MCCAIN: Thanks, Larry.

KING: Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona.

We are at the Republican convention. We go from one war hero to another, who also gave up some things for his country. Senator Bob Dole is next. Don't go away.


KING: We're back at the Republican national convention in the City of Brotherly Love, Philadelphia. This is a special edition of LARRY KING LIVE.

By the way, we will return at midnight with another live show.

And it's always great to welcome to this program, convention or anywhere, Senator Bob Dole. He was this party's nominee...

Is it funny to come back?


KING: Of course, this is your -- your first time here as a non- elected person, right?

DOLE: That's true. It's been a long time, way back since 1964 I've been coming to conventions and...

KING: And you've been nominated here twice. You -- not in Philadelphia, but you were vice president...

DOLE: Vice president in '76...

KING: ... for Gerald Ford, and then 20 yeas later, nominated for president. At least you sort of get a feel for the convention this way. Before, you'd go into -- maybe you have to do a TV interview, then you go back to your room because you were supposed to sort of be quiet until election -- until you gave your acceptance speech.

KING: So how does it feel?

DOLE: It feels good. I've met a lot of good people out there, and I think we've got a good ticket. I know Dick Cheney very well, and he's a man of integrity, and I think it's very important.

KING: Is this a kinder, gentler party?

DOLE: I think -- well...

KING: Or certainly platform.

DOLE: I think so. I think a lot of us have been -- well, we like to consider ourselves "compassionate conservatives." We think we've done a lot of things. But we need to continue to reach out. From that standpoint, Governor Bush is doing, I think, a great job. You know, I watch television. I listen to his speeches. I watch his demeanor. And people like him, and that's going to make a big difference.

KING: What is that quality? What would you call it? You're a veteran of the political game. What quality does he have?

DOLE: I think people want to see sincerity. They -- do you really -- does he really believe this, or is he just mouthing something that somebody else wrote for him? And you can almost sense it, I think, after a while. I mean, I've heard so many speeches on the Senate floor, thousands of speeches that somebody else has written, including some of mine. And you get up there, and the first time you read them is when you give them on the Senate floor. And so you can detect fairly well.

KING: What about...

DOLE: And I think Bush has grown as a candidate. When he first started off, when McCain was in the race, and it was pretty tough, and Forbes was spending some money, it was a little shaky. But he's really grown.

KING: A man you have served with, Al Gore. If George Bush were to ask you, "How would I approach him," say debate-wise, what would you say?

DOLE: Well, Al Gore's a bright person. He's intelligent. He does his homework. He'll be prepared. It's just what he says that people don't agree with.

KING: So you think he'll be a good candidate?

DOLE: Yeah.

KING: Forgetting on whether they agree or not.

DOLE: Sure. Oh, I think -- certainly. I think they've picked a good candidate, and he won the primaries, and he deserves to be the candidate. There was only a two-person race with Bill Bradley, and both good friends of mine, good people from the standpoint of human beings. But it's philosophical is what the election's about. And it's competition for ideas. And I really -- I think Bush talking about education, reaching out to people, Hispanics, blacks, Asians, is a big, big plus for our party.

KING: Did you -- did you think Elizabeth had a shot at being the running mate?

DOLE: No. I didn't think so. I mean, I thought if it were -- if Bush had maybe been very close or behind a few points, where you'd have to maybe gamble on what might happen. But he's got at least three things going for him. Buchanan's gone, Clinton's gone and Newt's gone. And Newt's a friend of mine, but he's a polarizing force. And every ad in '96 was "Bob and Newt" joined at the hip, and it was -- and Newt said, "Well, what can I do about it?" I said, "You can't do anything about it, Newt." You know, that's the same thing we'd do to them, but...

KING: (INAUDIBLE) funniest time phase was seeing you in the Green Room sitting next to Jack Kemp -- the ticket!

DOLE: The ticket. Yeah, right.


DOLE: Yeah, Jack's coming on CNN later.

KING: Yeah, he'll be on this show in a little...

DOLE: Yeah, we had a good ticket, and we did our best. And we didn't win. We accept responsibility for that. But I think now it looks good this year.

KING: Before I ask you about Dick Cheney, is there a Democrat you would fear the most -- you've always been straight up with us...

DOLE: Yes.

KING: ... if select -- if Gore selects?

DOLE: Bob Kerrey.

KING: Bob Kerrey? I keep hearing that name. Why?

DOLE: Well, Bob Kerrey's a Medal of Honor winner. He's an open- minded person. He's from the Midwest, not that that makes him any more open-minded, but he's willing to cross party lines to work together on issues, whether it's Social Security and Medicare, whatever it may be. He's not afraid to take a position.

KING: And he'll get a lot of independent voters, then, right?

DOLE: I think he might. I think he'd get a lot of independent voters, and he would appeal to veterans. And of course, he's from the Midwest. That's going to be a battleground, some of those farm states. And Ohio's a farm state. Illinois's a farm state. Michigan's a farm state. Even Pennsylvania, a lot of agriculture in Pennsylvania.

KING: So what you're saying is, you're hoping he does not select Senator Bob Kerrey of Nebraska.

DOLE: Don't select that Kerrey. There are two of them.


KING: Another hero.

DOLE: John. John's a good friend of mine, but I just think just looking at it, on the -- I don't -- Gore -- I don't imagine Gore will ask me for my assistance...

KING: No, but he might listen.

DOLE: Might. But I don't know. There are probably a lot of good -- Bob Graham's another good choice. And they're all -- if you're looking for a state, I'd take Bob Graham.

KING: But Bob Kerrey jumps at you as the -- it would be the toughest.

DOLE: Bob Kerrey, yeah.

KING: We'll be right back with Bob Dole, and we'll talk about maybe the misunderstood Dick Cheney after this. Don't go away.


UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I don't have much time left, but let me tell you that this church and this community...

KING: We're at the Republican convention in Philadelphia, and Robert Dole is our guest. In a little while, Condoleezza Rice -- she is George W. Bush campaign global policy adviser -- and the distinguished former secretary of state, George Shultz.

All right, tell us about -- a little bit about Dick Cheney. I mean, we all know the man, Dick Cheney, but you know him probably better than anybody, or certainly as good as most.

DOLE: I go back to when he was chief of staff and Bush -- President Ford was looking for a running mate, and I was in the...

KING: He picked you.

DOLE: Right. Yeah, he picked me.

KING: Cheney picked you. OK.

DOLE: Well, I don't know that Cheney did. President Ford picked me, but I think...

KING: Is it...

DOLE: ... Dick Cheney was in on it.

KING: Is it fair to look at his voting record? Is that fair...

DOLE: Yeah, I think...


DOLE: I voted 12,000 times, and they picked out "Bob Dole voted against Medicare." But they didn't tell you I voted for elder care, which had prescription drugs. So you got to be very careful, and you just pick out one vote or two votes or four or five votes. If they're saying that they only disagree with five of his votes, it means they must agree with the other 3,000. And I don't think that's the case.

KING: John McCain just said he is not an extreme right-winger.

DOLE: No, he's not -- he's not extreme in any way. I mean, this -- as I've said, he has adversaries, not enemies. He's that kind of a person. He has opponents, not enemies. Nobody ever got mad at Dick Cheney and thought he was out there to get them or blister them. And as he said himself, he's not going to do that.

KING: And is that always a plus?

DOLE: Oh, I think it's a plus. I think Jack Kemp...


KING: ... successful candidates had enemies.

DOLE: ... was pretty much the same way. You know, we -- we need to put a smile on the face of the Republican Party, and that's what the Bush-Cheney ticket will do because people will look at us if we're smiling. If we're scowling, they're going to turn around and run. And I think -- a great opportunity. And the thing about Cheney is that not only in the campaign, but he'll be a big, big asset when it comes to governing.

KING: And he'll be a cog in that government?

DOLE: Oh, he'll be a big cog. I mean, he -- you know, my view is he could be chief of staff and vice president. Why not? You know, he's...

KING: Colin Powell as secretary of state?


KING: Is that, like, a given already?

DOLE: Well, first you have to win the election.

KING: But you could say "He's who I would appoint, if elected."

DOLE: You can say that, but you want to be a little careful because once you say that, then the press starts focusing on that person and takes it away from the campaign. We thought about naming -- we knew we were behind -- naming all of our cabinet, but you know, we might have -- might have made a mistake somewhere, so...

KING: Are you going to campaign for this ticket?

DOLE: Naturally.

KING: Elizabeth, too?

DOLE: Oh, yes.

KING: You'll both be...

DOLE: She's been campaigning. In fact, she was in California recently. She's much more popular than I am. I assume she'll be doing more campaigning than I am.

KING: And how's the World War II memorial coming? You raised the money, huh?

DOLE: Great. I'm going to speak about it tomorrow night. Not about the memorial, but about veterans. And we're -- we've raised $139 million. We're still about $6 million short. President Clinton has promised to go to Hollywood with me, and we could raise the rest there.

KING: Yeah, we'll do it.

DOLE: I think he will do it.

KING: Is it going to be there in the -- by the Washington and Lincoln and...

DOLE: Yeah, that site was dedicated in 1995. And I didn't dedicate the site. I didn't -- I'm not the architect. I'm just the fellow who, along with Fred Smith of Fedex, who's been raising the money.

KING: It's always great seeing you, Robert.

DOLE: Thank you.

KING: Elizabeth will be here tomorrow, and you'll speak tomorrow night.

DOLE: She'll be here Wednesday.

KING: Wednesday night. You know the whole schedule, right?

DOLE: I know the...


KING: Senator Robert Dole.

And when we come back, we'll talk foreign policy with Condoleezza Rice and George Shultz, two fans of Bob Dole's. Don't go away.


KING: The Republicans promised a show, and they're doing that. The Bill Jolly Choir is on deck now, and as you can tell, they're whipping it out pretty good. Laura Bush is going to speak at the top of the hour, and then Colin Powell will close out the evening. He'll also be with us on our midnight edition of LARRY KING LIVE, coming up two hours after we leave the air at 10:00.

We now welcome to our program Condoleezza Rice. She is George W. Bush's campaign's global policy adviser. She's going to speak tomorrow night. She's also a delegate from California, and another Californian, George Shultz. He was Ronald Reagan's secretary of state for seven years. He is a delegate as well.

George, you know Condoleezza well.


KING: Yes, what do you think of her being the main adviser of things international?


KING: Isn't she a little young for that?


KING: She knows the game? SHULTZ: Listen, she was provost at Stanford University for about six or so years. She did a wonderful job. She left the university in great shape, and she did something that very few university administrators have the guts to do.

KING: Which is?

SHULTZ: She closed the department.


KING: Why?

SHULTZ: But she enhanced the quality of the university tremendously.

RICE: Well, I'd like not to be know for just closing a department, but I think George is just saying we had to make some tough choices at Stanford, and sometimes you have to do those things.

KING: What got you interested in international affairs?

RICE: I was a failed music major. I started out life as a piano major. I was going to be a great concert musician. I could read music before I could read, and it suddenly occurred to me that I probably going to end up teaching 13-year-olds to murder Beethoven for a living, because I wasn't that good, and I looked for a major. Fortunately for me, I took a course in international politics that was taught by a man named Joseph Corvell (ph), Madeleine Albright's father, and he turned me on to this world that really opened up the Soviet Union for me, and I found a passion in the study of Russia.

KING: And you know, of course -- were you an admirer of George Shultz? Was he your kind of secretary of state?

RICE: Absolutely. George Shultz was a great secretary of state, because he understood America's interest, was a great negotiator, but he was tough, and he and Ronald Reagan left this world a much better place, and indeed, sowed the seeds of the end of the Cold War. There's no better legacy than that.

KING: If elected, how well, honestly, George, do you think the other George will do in the fields of the things international?

SHULTZ: Well, I think he'll do very well. And let me tell you how I came to that conclusion. He was in San Francisco giving a speech about two years ago, maybe a little more than that. And afterwards, the next day, we found he was having a breakfast down our way, a luncheon and something in the late afternoon. So I invited him to my house down on the Stanford campus. We spent about two, two and a half hours in the morning and the same amount in the afternoon. Conde came, Mike Boskin, John Taylor, the usual suspects.

KING: The crowd.

SHULTZ: People who have experience in government and various fields and who are smart and interesting people. And we sat there for four and a half hours talking policy. That's all we talked about, one policy problem after another, and he had lots of ideas. He had argued. When he came across something that he didn't know much about, he's get somebody talking about it. And then the thing that impressed was he could ask not just the first question, but the second question, the third question, and a fourth question. In other words, he knew how to dig into a subject and find out about it, and also find out about the person doing the talking. So I was impressed?

KING: And you surprised, too?

SHULTZ: I didn't have any notion to be surprised or not.

KING: What about you, Condoleezza?

RICE: I remember that session very well, and what George describes about the governor's temperament as a person being advised is very much true of the way the last year or so has gone. He really makes you confront the implications of what you're suggesting. When you go in as an adviser and you say you've got the following options, he's going to say, well, why might you be wrong? Not just, why might you be right? And probably the most important question that you can ask an adviser is, why might you be wrong? If President Clinton had asked Secretary Albright, why might you be wrong when she said that Milosevic would cave in three days, we might have fought the war in Kosovo differently.

So I see Governor Bush as somebody of tremendous intellect, but somebody who can just bore in and really get to the essence of the question.

KING: Here you see Laura Bush arriving. Of course she will be the featured speaker tonight, her and Colin Powell. She's arriving of course through the private entrance with all the security attendant to it. And she will be speaking in a little over a half hour from now, and of course you'll see it all live.

You were going to add, George? I'm sorry.

SHULTZ: Well, I was going to add a note about the governor's experience with Mexico. Here he is, Governor of Texas, so he realizes that it's got a long border, lots of Mexicans, Mexican-Americans, Mexicans in Texas. And so he better have a constructive, realistic, strong relationship with Mexico and work out problems, and he did it. Probably he has, of all Americans right now, he probably has the best relationship with the Mexican government, in a constructive way, not sort of giving away things, but a constructive, hard-headed way.

KING: We'll be right back with Condoleezza Rice and former Secretary of State George Shultz. We'll ask Condoleezza about her plans in a Bush administration, if there is one, right after this.


KING: We're back at the Republican National Convention. Still to come, the address by Laura Bush and then by Colin Powell. And there you see the former President George Bush, and his wife, the former first lady, Barbara Bush.

You were both involved with him, were you not, Condoleezza? Is his son a chip off the old block in interest in international affairs?

RICE: Governor Bush and President Bush share a lot. They share a great love of this country. They share an understanding that America has to play an active role in the world. They share an of the importance of free trade, but it's a different time, and Governor Bush's foreign policy would be different because there's no Soviet Union. President Bush had the great task of ending the Cold War. Governor Bush would have the task of building on the new world that's there.

KING: And the governor said last -- 10 days on this program that he thought Clinton had done quite a job in that Middle East Discussion, even though it failed. He has right on top of it, and he, George Bush, would continue that effort.

RICE: This show something very important Governor Bush. He is going to give credit where credit is due, regardless of the source. And clearly, he follows in a bipartisan tradition of support for the Middle East peace process. There's no shame in bringing together the participants in the peace process, even if they can't get all the way to an agreement.

KING: We're one country after all.

RICE: We're one country, and we need to speak with one voice.

KING: The truth, George, you miss it? You miss being secretary of state? You miss government?

SHULTZ: I miss it. I miss the people.

But I would like to say to people who are listening in and have a chance to serve in the government, it's an opportunity and a privilege, and I regard it as certainly a high point in my life, my time as secretary of state.

KING: Al the jobs you had, even labor, too.

SHULTZ: Yes, labor.

KING: You would tell people go?

SHULTZ: But it was the tough job. I wouldn't want to go back to that.

KING: You would say (UNINTELLIGIBLE) government...

SHULTZ: You're always saying no to everybody. Treasury is a wonderful job I had.

KING: Condoleezza, everyone is saying Colin Powell secretary of state. What role do you see for yourself if George Bush is elected? And don't say you don't see a role. RICE: I feel very strongly we need to get Governor Bush elected first and then let him choose his administration. I can tell you one thing...

KING: But you have a particular one.

RICE: No, no. I don't plan my life that way, that far ahead. I was going to be a music major, remember, so I'm not a very good long- term planner.

Governor Bush is going to have terrific administration because he's comfortable with experienced, knowledgeable people around him. He gives them a sense of confidence that he listens to them. You can say anything to him. This is not someone for whom you have to sugar- coat the message, and so he's going to draw very, very good people around him. And that's the core.

He's so right: A presidency is more than just a president.

KING: If Governor Bush said to George Shultz, "What job do you think Condoleezza would fit best?" what would you say?

SHULTZ: She can do anything. She can do anything. She's...

KING: You'd appoint her to any Cabinet post?

SHULTZ: Well, let's try out secretary of the treasury, for instance.


KING: You'd make her secretary of the treasury?

SHULTZ: Well, I don't know.


SHULTZ: I think -- I think...

KING: She'd learn it fast.

SHULTZ: She would be wonderful in the White House as the national security adviser. She's be a great Cabinet officer. She -- she's a very talented person.

KING: National security adviser is the most...

SHULTZ: I think one of the things about -- I've watched the governor and Condie (ph) together...

KING: I know.

SHULTZ: ... discussing what-not, and they have a very comfortable relationship with each other. So what that tells me is that she's the kind of person, as is Dick Cheney, that when you have an important issue and you're struggling with it -- whatever it happens to be -- you want people who have common sense and judgment and who are loyal to you. And she fits that bill.

KING: You'd really like to be commissioner of baseball?

RICE: Football. I'd really like to be NFL commissioner. I tape almost major sport, to be truthful. But I would love to be...

KING: So if George Bush had the clout and Tagliabue was going to leave tomorrow...

RICE: I'm there. I'm there. I'm ready to go.

KING: There's the real heart and soul.

RICE: That's the real heart and soul. That's the dream job.

KING: How much of -- a few more things. How much of dealing with things international is common sense?

RICE: A lot of it's common sense. The fact of the matter is foreign policy decision-making is not that different from any kind of decision-making. You have to have someone who can set an agenda, who can make good choices, tough judgments about what to do, can bring people together around that agenda, and then who can execute. And that's true of any decision-maker.

Governor Bush has been an executive. Every day as governor of Texas he got up having to make decisions knowing that the book stopped in the governor's office. That's very good experience for being president of the United States.

KING: So dealing with France could be like dealing with the speaker of your House?

SHULTZ: Dealing with France is always tough.


KING: Thanks, George. Great seeing you.

SHULTZ: Good to be with you.

KING: Good seeing you.

RICE: Thank you. Nice to be with you.

KING: Our guests have been Condoleezza Rice and George Shultz. Condoleezza is George Bush's campaign global policy adviser, and as George said would make an ideal national security adviser. And George Shultz is the former secretary of state.

And when we come back the former congressman, former secretary at HUD, former vice president nominee of his party, Jack Kemp, and the former governor of Texas, Ann Richards -- next. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: We're back at the Republican convention. We welcome two of our analysts: the Honorable Ann Richards, the former Democratic governor of Texas. She is with us from our bureau in Washington. She would not be a welcome addition -- well, they love her. She'd be welcome here.


And Jack Kemp, the vice presidential candidate and co-director of Empower America.

We asked -- we asked Senator Dole if it was tough for him. Is it tough for you, Jack?


KING: No, because you were the king of the hill here four years ago.

KEMP: Second spot. But it was a thrill. It's always an honor to be picked by your party. So I wouldn't trade it for the world.

But I'm -- it's a new day, it's a new century, and we've got a great ticket in Dick Cheney and George Bush.

KING: Governor Richards, he defeated you, did George W. Bush for governor. Did you ever think at that time you might be watching this scene here tonight?


KING: Really?

RICHARDS: Yes, I did. I told my daughter that guy's going to run for president of the United States. I didn't say he was going to be elected, but I did say he was going to run, yes.

I want to tell you that tonight I'm really happy that they're not going to leave any children behind. Isn't that the theme for the...

KING: Yes.

RICHARDS: ... evening? And I'm hoping he'll come home and take care of some kids in Texas like...

KING: By the way, hold it one second, Ann. They've asked eveyrone here at the convention to stand up and face the cameras as the people who run this convention all assemble on the stage. And you see all the delegates. And this is a way of saying thanks. And if you appreciate what you're seeing, those are all your delegates from all over the United States attending this convention, the Republican national convention.

Again, Laura Bush will be speaking following the top of the hour, and then Colin Powell will wind up the night.

Are you impressed with the ticket, Jack?

KEMP: Yes, I really am. I think the governor, despite what Ann Richards said, is going to be the type of president...

KING: But she predicted he would run...

KEMP: Well, not so much running, but she kind of took a dig at him that he might leave someone behind. I don't think he wants to. I think he is sincere in his desire to keep the economy growing and grow even faster and further. He picked a good vice presidential candidate, an outstanding one in Dick Cheney. Can make a great ticket.

And I'll tell you what, when they introduce Colin Powell tonight, they won't say secretary of state, but you alluded to it. With Condoleezza Rice at the National Security Agency, I think it's going to be the type of a ticket and team that will overwhelmingly win in November.

KING: Ann, are you, as a Democrat, are you fearful of this ticket?

RICHARDS: I think it's a very -- yes, I think it's a tough ticket. And since I ran against George Bush I can tell you that he's a very tough campaigner, and I have to say that with some respect. But I think it's real important, Jack: I'm not taking any digs, just talking about the record. We've got a million-and-a-half kids in poverty in Texas. We've got -- one out of four live in poverty. Over a million-and-a-half with no insurance.

KING: By the way, Dick Cheney -- hold it, Ann. Hold it, Ann. Dick Cheney has just arrived, taking a seat to the -- with his wife, Lynne, to the applause of the crowd. There's Dick Cheney.

Go ahead, Ann. I'm sorry.

RICHARDS: Anyway, I just -- you know, I agree we shouldn't leave children behind, but I think the Bush administration has done that in Texas.

I listened a while ago to my good friend -- and I mean that -- Bob Dole. When Bob was talking about Cheney's record, that if they're just picking out one or two votes here and there. But the reality is that, you know, Dick Cheney is a terrific guy. But he is philosophically as far to the right in his voting record, having voted 100 percent with the NRA and zero on any environmental issues.

So it's not just a few.

KING: And Jack -- Jack is shaking his...

KEMP: At least we know where he stands. Al...

KING: Let me get a break. As we watch Dick Cheney, we'll come back with our remaining moments as we lead into the speeches of Laura Bush and Colin Powell. We'll be back with Jack Kemp and Ann Richards from the Republican convention.

You're watching a special edition of LARRY KING LIVE. Don't go away.


KING: We're back on LARRY KING LIVE and we're watching the very popular R&B artist, Brian McKnight (ph), entertaining this crowd. Following him, we'll have a presentation by KIPP, the Knowledge Is Power Program. That's an academy founded six years ago with 500 students.

And that will lead into Laura Bush and then, of course, following Bush and Colin Powell, there'll be another edition of our coverage of the convention with our gang of troops following it here: Bernie and Judy and Jeff. And then, we'll come back at 12 o'clock, and Colin Powell will be one our guests at that time.

Jack, you like Dick Cheney, right?

KEMP: Yes, I like him a lot. I think...

KING: Is he being malign because Ann Richards...

KEMP: Well, I think...

KING: ... just said you get a 100 percent rating from the NRA...

KEMP: Yes, with all...

KING: ... it's an issue, isn't it?

KEMP: Yes, it is.

KING: Fair issue.

KEMP: Al Gore had a 90 percent rating with the NRA back when he was in the Congress. I don't think they're going to be able to demonize Dick Cheney. He's not Newt Gingrich, he's not Pat Buchanan. He's going to be tough to demonize. And you watched him on all the talk shows on Sunday: he was fabulous in answering the questions, bringing perspective.

And I -- you know, I don't think Ann Richards -- they're going to try. They try all the time, but I mean, I don't think he is any more to the right than Al Gore is to the left. In fact, Al Gore is ideologically left wing and the American people are not left wing. They're in the center. I frankly think they lean a little bit to the right on the values...

KING: But Cheney's voting record wouldn't be in the center.

KEMP: Well, I think he explained it very well on Sunday. But it remains to be seen. But he's not a demon. They can't make Newt Gingrich out of him.

KING: And you would agree with that?

RICHARDS: The questions isn't whether people are demons or not. That isn't the issue at all. The issue is, a guy who is going to sit to the right of the president of the United States, who we just -- someone just said, my gosh, he ought to be the chief of staff and he ought to be the head of national security, if that is the case, then I want to know what he thinks about the things that I care about where kids are concerned, and where my community is concerned. And guns and education and school lunches and head starts, all of those things are important issues to me.

KEMP: Sure they are.

RICHARDS: It isn't a matter of trying to make a demon out of Dick Cheney.

KING: No, you can disagree without making a demon...

RICHARDS: Absolutely.

KEMP: I'm not saying that she is, but I'm saying the Democratic Party wants to demonize his voting record and I think it's going to be tough.

KING: But demonizing -- by pointing it out is demonizing?

KEMP: Well, saying that he -- as Jesse Jackson pointed out the other night -- that he is a wolf in sheep's clothing, he's not. He is what you see. He's very transparent. He's not going to change from day to day, but he is strongly supporting the educational agenda of Governor Bush, and that is a good agenda. More people of color -- latino, Hispanic and black -- improve their reading and math scores in the state of Texas than any other state in the union, circa the last four years.

KING: And also...

RICHARDS: No, no, no, no, wait a minute. Now, that's not true. The recording that they did from the Rand Institute, when they were looking at the numbers in education in Texas, ran from 1990 to 1995, four of those were my years and one of them was...

KEMP: Well, congratulations, congratulations.

RICHARDS: And I voted -- and listen, I know it, I feel good for the kids of Texas, and I'm grateful that George Bush didn't tear down what we did.

KEMP: Well, then, you ought to give him credit.

RICHARDS: I just did.

KEMP: Good.

KING: Ann, who do you want your...

KEMP: Vote for him.

KING: Who do you want your party to make vice presidential nominee?

RICHARDS: Oh, I don't know. Honest to God.

KING: You don't have a preference?

RICHARDS: Honest to God, I don't know. I heard Dole say a while ago he'd like Bob Kerrey. I'd love Bob Kerrey. I think Bob Kerrey...

KING: Dole said that Bob Kerrey would be the toughest.

KEMP: He'd be good.

KING: You agree?

RICHARDS: I think he'd be a really tough guy to beat.

KEMP: Yes, I do. Yes, Bob Kerrey's good. So would George Mitchell. Senator Mitchell would be terrific.

RICHARDS: I like him a lot. I love -- of course, George is in my law firm, I liked him very much. There's a whole -- there're a lot of good choices...

KEMP: Bill Bradley would be good.

RICHARDS: ... that we could make.

KING: Really?

KEMP: Yes, Bill Bradley would be fabulous.

RICHARDS: But Bradley has said he doesn't want it.

KEMP: Well, you don't know...

KING: Right.

RICHARDS: You know, he really did.

KING: Lyndon Johnson didn't want it.

RICHARDS: No he didn't.

KEMP: Yes he did.

RICHARDS: Different deal, Larry.


KING: We've got about a minute and a half left. We'll be seeing lots of both of you. This going to be close?

KEMP: Very close. Al Gore is disciplined, as Bob Dole pointed out. He's tough, he's left of center, and that's going to be tough to defend. You cannot defend this tax cut. And he's in the position of defending the status quo.

I think the Bush-Cheney message will be reform of Social Security, reform of taxation, reform of education. Those are good messages right now, particularly building upon the reform of welfare, which worked out pretty well, thanks to a Republican Congress.

KING: We're still close.

KEMP: Very close.

KING: Do you agree, Ann...

RICHARDS: It's going...

KING: ... about it being close?

RICHARDS: Yes, yes. It's going to be a tight race. I've been all over the country, Larry. I've been concentrating, trying to help people win congressional races, and -- yes, I think the election is going to be close because that swing vote in the middle is not paying attention now. They really are not, and it'll be a while before they are. It'll be a while before we know where this race is going.

KEMP: I agree with Ann on that.

KING: You do?

KEMP: Yes.

KING: So, we can write head that late into the night, with Illionis keeping us up, right?

KEMP: Or Texas.

KING: Or Texas -- not Texas.

KEMP: Florida, maybe.

KING: Florida may be good for folks.

RICHARDS: Yes, Florida is going to be tight.

KING: Thank you both very much.

KEMP: Thank you.

KING: We'll see lots of you.

KEMP: Thank you, Ann.

KING: Jack Kemp...

RICHARDS: Yes, good seeing you guys. KING: Jack Kemp, former secretary, former football star, former vice presidential nominee and former congressman from Buffalo, New York, and Governor Ann Richards, the former governor of Texas, we thank them all. We thank all of our guests for being with us.

Stay tuned now as Jeff and Bernie and Judy take back over the coverage. You'll be seeing the speech, in its entirety, of Laura Bush and then Colin Powell. Then they'll come back, and we'll be back at midnight.

As we leave you, the entertainment continues as we salute the KIPP, Knowledge Is Power Program. This is an academy founded in 1994, 500 students, and they will lead into the introduction of Laura Bush.

From the Republican National Convention, for all of our guests, I'm Larry King. Thank you for joining and stay right there.



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