Saturday Morning News

Did Bobby Thomson Hit the Greatest Home Run in History?

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it's been called the greatest home run in the history of major league baseball. That may be debatable, but let's go with it, shall we? Cast your mind back a half a century to 1951, the National League playoffs in New York. This week, a new discovery is placing that event in a new light, as CNN's Garrick Utley explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARRICK UTLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The moment became a legend the instant the ball left Bobby Thomson's bat. 1951, the deciding play-off game for the National League pennant, bottom of the ninth, two out. Bobby Thomson and the New York Giants beat the Brooklyn Dodgers. But what happens when a legend gets a rewrite 50 years later?

When we learned, as we did this week, that inside the old polo grounds on that day, the Giants had a spy, out there, behind a window in the center field clubhouse, a spy stealing the signals of the Dodgers' catcher with this telescope and sending them through a telephone line to the Giants' dugout and bullpen, where a teammate would signal the batter whether a fast ball or a curve was headed his way, all within seven seconds.

So does this news, dug up by reporter Josh Prager, make the greatest home run ever hit something less than that?

JOSHUA HARRIS PRAGER, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Baseball has always been an ambiguous game and I really think it's for each person to decide, as well as for the ball players to decide if it was immoral.

UTLEY (on camera): So now our story is about more than baseball as a game. Bobby Thomson's home run is about morality and ambiguity, with enough ethical questions to delight the most profound philosopher and fervent fan in the bleachers.

(voice-over): Except there was nothing ambiguous about Giants manager Leo Derocher (ph), who lived by his motto, nice guys finish last. That bothered Thomson even after his home run.

BOBBY THOMPSON: A lot of times if I didn't take signs, I didn't feel good about it. But look, hey, you play for Derocher, win at all costs, and, you know, I go along with that. UTLEY (on camera): And how often do we find ourselves going along? In 1951, what the Giants did was not illegal and Bobby Thomson says he did not take the sign on that famous pitch. Still, there's a lingering question in this story. Who was the real hero?

(voice-over): Enter Ralph Branca, as he did in the bottom of the ninth on that October afternoon to pitch to Thomson with runners on second and third. History has cast him as the big loser. But now we learn that he has known since 1954 that the Giants were stealing his team's signals and he never complained to anyone, even to Bobby Thomson, who became a good friend.

RALPH BRANCA: Bobby and I have never talked about it. He knows that I knew and I know he knows that I knew, so we have never talked about it. We, it's just been like pushed aside, swept under the rug and it's, you know, and as I said, I don't want to take anything away from him. He hit a hell of a pitch.

PRAGER: It's sad, though, that Ralph Branca had to deal with this for 50 years. Fifty years is a man's life and he really suffered for much of it.

UTLEY: When the facts change, so does history. Now we'll always see this moment a little differently. The hero will not only be Bobby Thomson, who did hit that fast ball into the left field stands. There will also be Ralph Branca, who kept quiet about the sign stealing to preserve a friendship and a legend, to show that nice guys don't always finish last, even if it takes half a century for us to discover that.

Garrick Utley, CNN, New York.

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O'BRIEN: Thank you, Garrick.

And half a century later we are joined this morning by the man himself, Bobby Thomson, dialing in from his home in New Jersey, just having finished breakfast. And also with us in New York is the distinguished baseball historian and writer Roger Kahn, author of "The Boys of Summer" and his most recent title, "The Head Game: Baseball Seen from the Pitcher's Mound." And by the way, he attended that famous game back in 1951.

Mr. Thomson, I'd like to begin with you. Now that the secret is out after 50 years, is it in some sense liberating?

BOBBY THOMSON, FORMER NEW YORK GIANTS THIRD BASEMAN: Yes, it is. I think I used that word when I talked to your fellow Dave and it was liberating for Ralph. It was a sense of vindication for Ralph. And you know what? Heck, I'm an honest guy. I think my morals are pretty good. I'm not perfect. In fact, I've really gotten a kick out of this, as I told Dave when we interviewed at my home the other day.

It's been fun. That was a great interview. We talked openly and what's been interesting is reading all the papers. I went out and got all the papers that day, which I've never done in my life. And interesting, some of the things I read.

Heck, I didn't remember half this stuff. I realize I'm pretty old and sometimes don't remember what happened yesterday, but, you know, I've been asked questions -- well, I've heard how they, Leo had a meeting to ask us whether we wanted signs and I was reading where half of the team wanted them and half of the team didn't. So I've been asked well, which half were you?

I said oh, well, an honest guy like me, I must have been the good half. But being realistic, I don't remember and who cares? It's over with. And I've kind of forgotten about all this stuff. And I did tell the writer from the "Journal," I said well, congratulations. Your timing is wonderful but -- and under my breath I was saying about him you S.O.B.

But, you know, I really do, it's good that this thing is in the open and Ralph and I are friends and we, when we go out we're generally together, obviously, doing something. But...

O'BRIEN: All right, well, let me send it over to Roger Kahn as we look at some of the pictures of jubilation after that incredible swing, hit, line drive home run. Roger, just take, you were there. That must have been an amazing moment to share in. What do you recall about it personally?

ROGER KAHN, BASEBALL HISTORIAN: The noise. It was amazing. The place wasn't sold out. It was a kind of a threatening day and there were maybe 10,000 or 15,000 empty seats. But this had been what I still think is the most exciting of all pennant races. The Giants were 13 1/2 games back and here they came thundering on. Now, stealing signs is an old baseball tradition. You can read about it in the book by Christy Matthewson, the great Giant pitcher, published in 1912.

They didn't only win it home with the signs. They also won on the road. The first game of the play-off, it was a three game play- off, the Giants won in Brooklyn and when Bobby Thomson hit a home run in Ebbits Field (ph) that day, we had...

THOMSON: Nobody told me they were taking them on the road. I wish they had told me about that because that's ridiculous.

O'BRIEN: Well, gentlemen, before we get away here, I've got to ask you, you know, for both of you, and I'll begin with you, Roger, does this, how much at all does this diminish that experience or that memory for you?

KAHN: Not at all. There is a very brief poem about pro sports, right or wrong is all the same when baby needs new shoes, it isn't how you play the game, it's whether you win or lose.

O'BRIEN: Bobby, does it diminish it for you in any way? You say that the man...

THOMSON: You sound like a man...

O'BRIEN: ... having a clear conscience.

THOMSON: ... being -- oh, I've got a clear conscience. Nobody, I haven't heard anybody write about my story about this thing. I did not get the sign. It was, and a moment would take a few minutes to discuss and nobody, because Amir (ph) was sliding into third base and hurting his ankle to me made the whole difference and I've rationalized that since 1951.

When he was lying on the ground in real pain and I was down there with a bat in my hand and it just took my mind completely off the game until they carried him off the field. Now, Derocher says to me I've been a, I realize, hey, there's a ball game going on here. And Derocher says to me, "Bobby, if you ever hit one, hit one now," and I didn't even look at him. I thought you're ridiculous, Leo.

But what happened from that point walking from third base to home plate is something that I'd never done in my life before. I psyched myself up. I told myself to get up there and do a good job, wait and watch, give yourself a chance to hit. And I called myself an S.O.B. all down the line just to, I guess, get determined, get mad, get aggressive.

O'BRIEN: All right, that's going to have to be the last word from a pair of nice guys, Bobby Thomson in New Jersey, Roger Kahn at our bureau in New York. Roger, once again, the author of most recently of "The Head Game," who has written wonderful books about baseball over the years.

We appreciate you both being with us and helping us rewrite a little bit of baseball history. No worse for the wear are any of us.

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