The Spin Room

How Safe Is the President?

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think it's fair to say that anytime anybody has a weapon that they are discharging, there is a safety problem for all concerned.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Sometimes, the best thing a White House press secretary can do is state the obvious.

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Because sometimes even spin has limits. And nobody knows that better that tonight's guest, former White House Press secretary Jake Siewert.

PRESS: Good evening, everybody, Wednesday evening. This is THE SPIN ROOM. Welcome. Thanks for joining us. I'm Bill Press.

CARLSON: And I'm Tucker Carlson. And tonight's topic is the White House. Our guest is Jake Siewert, the last press secretary of the Clinton era.

And the first question we're going to ask Jake Siewert is how safe is the president?

PRESS: And we're also going to ask him about that big battle that supposedly Al Gore and Bill Clinton had right in the final days of the White House. You will have your own points and comments and questions we're sure for Jake Siewert.

You've got to join in, folks. That's what makes this show so special. You know how to do it. 1-800-310-4CNN is the telephone number. You can join our ongoing chat room at CNN.com or e-mail us of course to spin@CNN.com.

Tucker.

CARLSON: People will do all of the above I think. It was a huge day in downtown Washington. Happily, the Secret Service jumped right in immediately and saved the day apparently.

Let's take a look at what the current White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer said about it this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLEISCHER: The president full faith in the Secret Service. So the president understood that he was not in any danger. And the president -- again, we all have full faith in the Secret Service here. They are professionals. They do their job. And they do it well.

It's unfortunate that it ever comes to this point. But if it ever does, the Secret Service serves our nation very, very ably.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: If you follow politicians around, Bill, after a while, you think the only thing the Secret Service does is elbow you out of the way at media veils. Nice to see them do something different.

PRESS: No, I was going to say that myself. If you are around president at all, or if you're around the White House at all, which we get to do living in this town and working in this town once in a while, I mean, sometimes you wonder, is all of this security necessary? And something like that happens, and you realize damn right it's necessary because there are always idiots out there. And in this country, there are always idiots that can get their hands on a gun.

And fortunately, you have that kind of perimeter. And you have those kind of people, who are trained to just get there right away.

CARLSON: It's going to be a tough sell to me, someone living in Washington, that all the security is necessary. But I have to say I was amazed that there is helicopter somewhere near the White House that just sort of appears on the scene the minute there is a problem.

PRESS: It was there right away. And I wonder about working at the White House, how ready they are for this. Jake Siewert is our guest tonight. He was the final press secretary of the Clinton administration. Did a great job in those final months.

Jake Siewert, thanks for joining us tonight.

JAKE SIEWERT, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Thanks for having me on.

PRESS: Let me ask you, working at the White House, how aware were you of this constant security threat to the president, but also to the all of you guys who were working in the White House?

SIEWERT: Well, it's hard not to be reminded of it. I mean, just in my office, the office I had, the lower press office in the White House, that had been shot up at one point and new glass had been installed. So it was a reminder every morning when you came in that you weren't exactly safe there.

Some guy had taken out a gun on Pennsylvania Avenue and shot up the West Wing. So it's hard not to be reminded that it's a dangerous environment. And particularly when you are traveling, there is always some security risk when president leaves the White House, and particularly overseas where the Secret Service goes out of its way to anticipate risks that may or may not be out there and take extra precautions.

PRESS: Yeah, because your office is right there on the -- I guess -- I hope I'm not giving anything away, but on the front part of the White House facing Pennsylvania Avenue. The Oval Office is in the back. The president is a lot more protected, as he should be. You're right in the line of fire.

SIEWERT: Yeah, although I have to say the only thing I ever took a lot of flack from was the press. But that was the area that was shot up. In fact, the press were actually in more danger than anyone I think who worked there because they walk back and forth in that one area there that does -- that if someone just walking down Pennsylvania Avenue took a shot at, that's where those bullets go.

CARLSON: Well, I have to say, Jake, I'm glad to hear you point out the perils of covering the news. It really is a risky business.

So where do the helicopters come from?

SIEWERT: There is a base. Marine One I know is based in southeast Washington. And I think they fly over from Paddon (ph). I assume that if a helicopter got on the scene pretty quickly it's probably based out there. They can be over at the White House in a couple of minutes. CARLSON: So what are your instructions? I mean, you must be prepared for this kind of thing. Every White House press secretary must be. What are you told to do if there is an incident like this?

SIEWERT: Well, we take our cues from Secret Service. And you develop a working relationship with them, particularly when you are traveling on the road.

So when something like this develops, you follow the lead of the agents and try to -- in some cases, if there's something that's ongoing -- we had some high security risks when we were traveling in the subcontinent. In Bangladesh and Pakistan, it's one of those few times when you really have to guard information carefully because the security risk is ongoing over the course of a trip.

PRESS: Did you actually go through training in terms of White House staff, and you particularly as press secretary, about what to do when a threat to the president is made, or the White House?

SIEWERT: Not in this sort of instance. But there is -- someone from each office actually still goes through sort of Cold War training that explains if there's really a high level, a DEFCON-5-level threat, what kind of situation -- if that arose, what to do.

PRESS: What was worst scare around President Clinton when you were working with him in the White House? Can you tell us? SIEWERT: I think, actually, I think in -- there were a number of instances when we were traveling in Pakistan and Bangladesh where there were a lot of active terrorist networks, particularly in Pakistan, where the Secret Service very much was covering -- a lot of times they rely on the local law enforcement and military to supplement their efforts. But in this case, they wanted to double check and triple check everything.

And you may remember there was that decoy plane that was used that looked as though the president were in it. It turned in he came in on an unmarked plane. And Secret Service agents themselves went up in the plane that most people probably thought the president was in, surprising the press, and hopefully anyone who had mischief in mind.

CARLSON: Now what is the attitude within the White House to the coverage of something like this? I mean, all sorts of whackos went after Clinton. And each time it got a huge deal of press. Is there any sense that this is inciting future crazies to come and do something like this?

SIEWERT: I never got that sense. It is hard because people -- in the era of 24-hour cable, people want instant information. You saw CNN interview one of my favorite cameramen on the scene just because there was so little information and he happened to be an eyewitness.

But you're trying to find out what happens and quickly. And there's just not enough information to please the media beast on an ongoing basis. And you want to make sure you get the information right before you dispense it. They can afford to be wrong. But you can't really afford to be wrong.

But I'm not a psychologist. I have no idea whether this leads to more instances or less.

I do know that it can be difficult to provide the media in that situation a minute-by-minute-second-by-second update when Secret Service themselves is busy trying to pinpoint what happened and secure the area. They're not that interested in taking my calls.

PRESS: One of the big issues in this town is the closing of Pennsylvania Avenue, which happened under President Clinton because the Secret Service, after that truck was blown up in front of Marine barracks in Saudi Arabia killing so many young Americans over there, the Secret Service says, "Gee, somebody could park a truck on Pennsylvania Avenue" when the avenue was open to vehicular traffic, and blow up part of the White House or do damage to the White House.

So Pennsylvania Avenue has been closed now for, what, three or four years or whatever.

SIEWERT: Right.

PRESS: And yet there is a big push, particularly on the part of Washington taxicab drivers, who are inconvenienced by having to go around it, to reopen Pennsylvania Avenue. If the Secret Service says it shouldn't be, is what happened today a reminder that maybe the Secret Service is right?

SIEWERT: Well, I had to deal with that question a lot because Washington press loved to come in and ask about it. And they would come in every couple of weeks or so.

I mean, I think the Secret Service made the absolute right call. The president did it very reluctantly. I think he actually did it in the wake not of Khobar Towers, but in the wake of the Oklahoma City bombing incident.

But I don't think there's any doubt that that's the right call. And I know that in the campaign, the Republican Convention, they made a lot of noise about opening up the avenue. I hope now that they've listened very carefully to the Secret Service and maybe rethink that campaign promise because it would be nice to reopen it. I'd like to be able to scoot across Pennsylvania Avenue a little quicker myself some days. But I think it's pretty critical that the Secret Service keeps that area closed down so that they have a more secure environment around there.

Blair House is also right there, and a lot of foreign dignitaries are there. And the street is just, it's very close. It's close to my old office. It's close to the Oval Office.

CARLSON: Well, there are, let's not forget, just some risks inherent in being in the public eye.

But let me, speaking of risks, let me ask you. You were press secretary right at the end. And I don't know what were you expecting when you came in, but you wound up having to deal with the huge number, relatively speaking, of different issues.

You had the final Clinton executive orders. You had, of course, the pardons. Then you had the gifts. And then you had the furniture. I mean, did you expect anything like this when you took the job?

SIEWERT: Yes, actually.

(LAUGHTER)

SIEWERT: I had been in the White House on and off for seven or eight years. And I was used to a fairly high level of excitement. And the media, even now that he's not president, I find myself reluctantly enough answering a lot of questions still.

I wish I got fewer calls, but I don't. But I knew, I mean, Joe Lockhart handed me over the job saying, "Well, maybe it will be quieter for you." But he knew that wasn't true. And I knew it wasn't true either.

I mean, I started on a week when things really got out of control in the Mid-East in a tragic way. But it never stopped. And it didn't stop up to the last day. And as I've found since, it hasn't really stopped since then. And I think it may be time for the media to find someone new to chew on and somewhere new to project their theories about the world. (CROSSTALK)

PRESS: Surely you could not have anticipated all the stuff that happened in that first week out of White House.

SIEWERT: No, and look, I knew it would be busy. I knew things would continue. But I was planning on heading out of town and taking a little vacation.

PRESS: Guess what.

SIEWERT: Yeah. That didn't work out. I was off the government payroll, but not off hot seat.

CARLSON: You're not off this hot seat yet either, Jake. And we've been pretty nice in the first segment.

SIEWERT: OK.

CARLSON: We're going to ask you the tough questions when we come back.

PRESS: Yeah, we've got to know about this...

SIEWERT: OK, I'll get ready.

PRESS: ... bloody battle between Gore and Clinton. We've got know about that when we come back.

CARLSON: We can't wait. And we will be back.

Send us an e-mail. Join our chat room. Or call us with your nominations for "Spin of the Day." We will be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PRESS: There he is.

CARLSON: Welcome back to THE SPIN ROOM. You know who that was. That was the former President Bill Clinton, who is still around somehow.

We are talking about the White House with former White House Press Secretary Jake Siewert. We're also reading your e-mail.

Bill, this is I have to say an interesting point. This comes from Jimmy (ph). He says: "Is it safe anywhere in D.C.?" Now as obviously upsetting as this is, I think we ought to be reminded that the president cruises around town with an enormous motorcade in a bulletproof limousine. And there are people in Washington who are not safe at all who are not pampered or protected in the way the president is. And in fact, there are places in Washington far more dangerous than the White House.

PRESS: As in any city in the United States. Here's from Lynn Foster (ph), Shifris (ph), Indiana: "I'm glad the Secret Service did such a great job today. But this incident has made me wonder what exactly is the setup in the street surrounding the White House? What prevents someone with an automatic weapon from firing into the grounds?"

You know what? I think nothing until Secret Service gets there.

CARLSON: A lot of bullet proof windows. But says Jamie (ph), "They already closed Pennsylvania Avenue. If they close the south street, we will all need telescopes to admire the great White House."

That is a good point. And there is a symbolic issue here. This is a democracy and the people ought to have access to the White House.

PRESS: Absolutely. On this one, Chris, an American living in Canada has a suggestion for THE SPIN ROOM, Tucker. "Bill and Tucker, I wonder if you two could switch positions and argue for the other side one night. I sometimes feel that Tucker might be a closet Democrat and hat Bill might have a few buried Republican sentiments."

I just want to say, Chris, I can't tell you how wrong you are about both of us.

CARLSON: It would have to be a pretty deep closet.

OK, speaking of, Jake Siewert, newly liberated from the Clinton White House joining us here on THE SPIN ROOM.

Now, Jake, we promised you the tough questions. Let's get right to it. It was reported in the "Washington Post" the other night...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Yes, Bill Clinton sitting in a restaurant in New York with former Secretary Kerry of Nebraska tells a lesbian joke loud enough for people at other tables to hear. Cheryl Mills (ph) apparently told him to be quiet. Does he tell a lot of lesbian jokes?

SIEWERT: Not that I've heard. I mean, look, the president is a private citizen now. He's having dinner with some friends. I don't know. I wasn't there. I don't know what he said. But I think it's gotten to the point where the press has got to lighten up a little bit and maybe ratchet back a little bit and find someone new to eavesdrop on.

But when he's with some friends, he'll tell some jokes once a while. I have no doubt that it was just a jest with some friends. But I have no idea. I wasn't there.

PRESS: Well, let me ask you about another "Washington Post" story, this one this morning by John Harris. And here's just a little clip, a byte from his story this morning in "The Post."

He reports that for more than an hour, in what sources close to both men described as uncommonly blunt language, Gore forcefully told Clinton that his sex scandal and low personal approval ratings were a major impediment to his winning the presidential campaign. And according to Harris, Bill Clinton shot back, "No, Al, it was your unwillingness to take credit for the progress we made in the Clinton years that caused you to lose the election."

Did that agreement take place? Were you there? Was it as vehement as John Harris describes?

SIEWERT: Well, this is one of those quintessential "Washington Post" stories where no one was actually in the room that talked to the press. But the press talked to people who talked to people who were in the room and decided that they knew what had happened in there.

I wasn't there. It was president and the vice president. They had heart to heart about the campaign, about their respective roles in it, or non-roles, as it were.

And I don't know what they said. I have never bothered to ask. And, frankly, I thought it was just a chance for the two of them to catch up and talk this through.

And look, there were some hard feelings after this campaign. I'll admit that. And I'm sure that they saw it very differently.

But I don't know what is true in that story and what's not true. I do know that we had different strategies. Everyone thinks they're a genius afterwards and could have won the campaign or lost the campaign.

CARLSON: Well, we will take your word for it that you're a genius. What side do you come down on? Do you think Gore people didn't use Clinton often enough or do you think that Clinton was this millstone on the campaign?

SIEWERT: Look, I worked for President Clinton I think. And I respect Vice President Gore. I think he won the campaign on the merits in reality. And they ought to just pat themselves on the back for that and move on.

But the Supreme Court ruled otherwise. And so we're left with some finger pointing.

But I think President Clinton is a tremendous asset to any campaign. He worked exhaustively for Democrats around the country. He was very good out in California where we did spend the last couple of weeks. He helped pull three or four races across the line out there, congressional races.

He was an enormous asset to his wife's campaign for the Senate in New York and did a lot of good work there. We went to Arkansas in the last week of the campaign, a very tight race where the Democrat was down four or five points. Mike Ross ended up beating Jay Dickey in that race by couple points...

PRESS: OK...

(CROSSTALK) PRESS: Jake, look, I defended the Clintons as often as I can when I agree with them. But you know, look, as they leave the White House they end up taking furniture that somehow belongs to the White House. And they've got to send it back, a couch and a sofa and a table or some other stuff...

CARLSON: Did you take any, by the way?

SIEWERT: No, I have no furniture in my home.

PRESS: How could that happen? Was it just sloppy at worst or best maybe?

(CROSSTALK)

SIEWERT: No, I think this is a story. I think there are some legitimate questions about the president's last couple of days in office. And tomorrow Congress is going to be looking at this pardon of Marc Rich, which is legitimate field of inquiry. I mean, I think the president did it on the merits. I think he thought he made the right call. And I think he had all the facts at his disposal. And people can disagree with him. But that's a legitimate question.

This furniture story is a lot of garbage, though. I mean, this is just the president and the first lady had furniture in their residence upstairs. They were told it belonged to them. They were told it didn't belong to White House.

It turns out now someone eight years ago wrote a note to the people who sent it in saying that it was -- it actually belonged to the Park Service and that the Park Service had accepted it on behalf of the White House. They didn't know that when they took it from the White House. So they sent it back. So case closed.

But they were very careful. They followed all the rules. And it turns out now someone eight years ago had a different point of view. And so they're sending it back. It's sort of a silly story, though.

PRESS: Yeah, but case sloppily closed...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Who hasn't taken someone else's furniture?

PRESS: That's right. Hey, Jake Siewert, thanks so much for joining us tonight. We know you're going to be somewhere always around Bill Clinton, whatever you wind up doing. So we want to get you back and keep on track of the ongoing Bill Clinton saga.

Jake Siewert, thanks joining us.

SIEWERT: Thanks for having me.

PRESS: Thanks, Jake.

All right, "Spins of the Day" and your nominations coming up... CARLSON: Oh, yes, there are many.

PRESS: ... in the next segment, 1-800-310-4CNN is the telephone number. Or just send us your e-mail to spin@cnn.com. We will be right back.

CARLSON: We will.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Welcome back to THE SPIN ROOM, where all the furniture is actually ours.

PRESS: You could have my chair.

CARLSON: I dig the chairs. People often talk about the grand media conspiracy. And I think it's time for us to admit that we are really at the center of it.

We had Terry McAuliffe on the program last night, this morning's spinning, this morning's "Washington Times" -- can we put this up? -- has an editorial. And there it is. "McAuliffe, full spin ahead."

We call the shots. The editorial writers listen.

PRESS: That's it exactly. What power. And speaking of power, this is a very, very important announcement that the Vatican announced today that there is now a saint of the Internet.

CARLSON: Of course there is.

PRESS: A patron saint of computer. His name is St. Isador. St. Izzy. And I just want to point out that any saint of the Internet is by nature -- there he is, St. Izzy, with computer on his lap. This man died in 636 AD. He had the first computer in existence, even before Al Gore. He had his computer.

And, of course, if he is the saint of Internet, he is also of course the patron saint of THE SPIN ROOM.

CARLSON: That is absolutely right. And I thought that was pre- iMac.

We have a "Spin of the Day" by phone. That would be Jeremy (ph) in Manitoba, Canada.

PRESS: Hi, Jeremy.

CALLER: Hi there.

CARLSON: Hi. What's your "Spin of the Day"?

CALLER: All right, it's ironic how TV shows are always saying that the vice president is going to be doing all the work. And this morning when the shooting took place, he was the one in the office while Bush was off exercising. PRESS: Oh, yes, but Bush had been working before that, we have to admit.

CARLSON: That's right. And I thought people were getting on Dick Cheney's case for not exercising enough.

PRESS: That's right.

CARLSON: Can't win either way.

PRESS: I just have to say this is someone who sums up the last discussion we had with Jake. "I did not have an argument with that man, Al Gore." Quote, unquote. Guess who said that?

CARLSON: I can imagine. Or it was Al Gore's fault.

OK, Bill, we're ready to unveil our "Spins of the Day."

PRESS: Ready for my "Spin of the Day." My "Spin of the Day" is a double, actually. George W. Bush still selling his tax plan was out there today. We'll see him right here surrounding himself with what he says is the typical family, families -- there they are -- families that he met during the campaign, families who will benefit from his super-across-the-board tax cut.

Actually, we at CNN in THE SPIN ROOM are going to show you next the people who will really benefit. This real family that will benefit from the president's tax cut, people like Bill Gates, Steve Forbes, Donald Trump, Dick Cheney, and of course, George Bush himself, because it does go to those people who are multimillionaires. Most of it goes to the people multimillionaires in this country. That's the real truth about the tax cut.

CARLSON: Leaving me again in the position to defend the multimillionaires. Bill, you will be so glad to get that new CD changer in your Bentley that it's going to be thrilling news for you.

OK, time for my "Spin of the Day." It comes from Tom Daschle, that would be the Senator Tom Daschle, Democrat -- asked today about George W. Bush's tax plan and how he felt about it. Listen to what Tom Daschle said in reply.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: Oh, if we sound frustrated, I'm not giving you the right impression of my mood. I'm not frustrated at all. I'm encouraged, actually.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Encouraged actually. Let me do brief translation. Actually, Tom Daschle is a wit's end, red in the face, ready to explode. This man is so frustrated you can see frustration coming off him in droplets.

He's thinking to himself: "Here's a man I thought was dumb. And he's out-maneuvering me politically. He'll get everything he wants. We'll get nothing." He's frustrated.

PRESS: What have you been smoking? George Bush is not going to get what he wants, which is why Tom Daschle is not frustrated.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: For a man presented as mentally retarded, he's doing a pretty good job, I would say.

PRESS: Speaking of getting what you want, I just have to say that what most of the people who send us e-mail want are mugs like these.

CARLSON: That is absolutely right.

PRESS: I know, folks. But we have the only two in the world.

CARLSON: We're going to get more soon. Have no fear.

PRESS: Eat your hearts out. And thank you for joining us tonight. Now it's time.

CARLSON: And we will be back. And so will the sports people on "Sports Tonight."

PRESS: Coming right up.

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