The Spin Room

The Week in Politics

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Yes, 12:00 noon on Wednesday and W.'s checking out for the weekend.

TUCKER CO-HOST: We have got to find the guy who negotiated his contract.

PRESS: Step right in to THE SPIN ROOM. Well you're there, and thank you for coming in. I'm Bill Press. Friday night, here it is.

CARLSON: Oh yes, the week that was. I'm Tucker Carlson, welcome.

We're talking about everything that happened this week. A huge amount in the political world. And we're talking tonight with GOP pollster and all-around supergenius, Frank Luntz. And we'll be asking Frank Luntz: the Clinton scandals: Will Bush ever emerge from Clinton's shadow?

PRESS: And we want to announce of course to the world, it's Frank Luntz's birthday. He has nothing better to do on his birthday than come into THE SPIN ROOM, so just for that, you've got to come some tough questions for Frank Luntz.

Here's how to do it. Phone: 1-800-310-4CNN. Join our chat room, cnn.com. Your e-mails to spin@cnn.com, or for the thrill of your life check out our new Web site. There it is on the screen. When you go to our Web site, which is cn.com/spinroom, you'll find tonight's Quick Vote, your vote. What was the biggest, hottest news story of the week? Was it the big superspy story? Was it the Clinton, continuing Clinton pardon story, or was it the sad death of Dale Earnhardt.

CARLSON: So weigh in. and of course on our Web site you can sign up for our daily e-mail that comes from us to you. It tells you what we're doing on the next day's show.

PRESS: This is another free thing that we offer, right? Free phone calls and free e-mails.

CARLSON: It's the discount show.

Ok, news of the week. Huge week in politics. We thought we'd frame it with the following piece of tape. This is our president, George W. Bush and Tony Blair of the United Kingdom.

PRESS: Today.

CARLSON: Today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Have you already in your talks, found something maybe that you, some personal interest that you have in common. Maybe in religion or sport or music?

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, we both use Colgate toothpaste.

TONY BLAIR, PRIME MINISTER OF ENGLAND: They're going to wonder how you know that George.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: George W. Bush looks like he's in a great mood, and I think he has every reason to be. He's just sort of stood back this week, and watched his political enemies set themselves on fire. He's very cheery looking.

PRESS: You didn't get the whole answer, unfortunately there. What he said was, "Well, we both have nice wives," and then he said, "And we're both fathers, and we both use Colgate toothpaste." I mean, I was ready for him to add they both have dumb dogs named Spot. I mean, you know, Tucker, I know Bill Clinton has not gone away, but I miss him already. Hell I miss Ronald Reagan when I hear George Bush talking.

CARLSON: See, I think, my theory is, Bill that his wit is so dry that it just goes right over your head. He's actually a deeply, deeply funny guy.

PRESS: Tucker, I'll tell you, it goes somewhere but it's not over my head.

CARLSON:; Well let's find out. SP -- well, let's go to Frank Luntz. First, happy birthday, Frank, and thanks for joining us.

FRANK LUNTZ, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: Thank you.

CARLSON: And tell us, does this help or hurt George W. Bush, that Bill Clinton has completely dominated the news this week?

LUNTZ: Well, obviously, it helps. It seems like Bill Clinton is that part-six of Nightmare on Elm Street. You know exactly what's going to happen at the end. There's going to be a lot of gore, no pun intended in that case. And you just want it over. You don't want to go see the next sequel. But unfortunately, Bill Clinton ends up more like Halloween 20, where even 20 years later you're going to be hearing about Bill Clinton and things that he's done.

The Bush administration is very different and he can be -- afford to be low-key. He's got some very tough things coming up next week, and the State of the Union address is going to be critical for him, in setting a tone. He can't depend on Bill Clinton's failures to prop him up.

PRESS: But Frank, unfortunately we do see the sequel already. And we saw the sequel just a little bit, just a minute ago. Let me show you the sequel as we saw it yesterday in President Bush's first news conference at the White House, where he made a startling announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I am concerned about the amount of acreage in cultivation -- for the growth of cocoa leaves. We've got to do a better job working with the Colombian government on it's eradication program.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PRESS: Now those people like me who like chocolate, when they hear him say we're going to wipe out the coco plants, Frank, we start, I mean, we start getting worried here, you know. I mean is it Mr. Malaprop, for four years? Is that what we're going to have?

LUNTZ: Well, as someone who's a hot chocolate fan, I agree with George Bush.

PRESS: There you go.

LUNTZ: You know what -- look, what's more important to the American people: the ethics of the individual, or whether or not he, on occasion, says something that doesn't come out quite right. I'll tell you something...

PRESS: All right, here's some spin.

LUNTZ: No, no, it's not spin; it's reality. We did a focus group within the last few days, and we looked at both Clinton and Bush. And what I found fascinating is: even among people who voted for Bill Clinton and still defend him, they still like the idea that you've got a change in Washington, that you've got a cleaner environment here with George Bush in office.

CARLSON: Yeah, but, Frank, you know, I hate to press the point, I know that the American people care more about ethics than they do about tangled syntax.

On the other hand, it's not just -- I mean, let's be honest here, it's not just a once-a-month occasion. It's virtually every time he speaks. I mean, he called John Ashcroft "Ashcraft." I mean, you can just go on and on and on, "the Kosovanians," "the Grecians," et cetera.

It's bad to get a reputation for talking like this, isn't it?

LUNTZ: Yeah, but Bill and Tucker, you know exactly what he meant to say. The American people know that...

CARLSON: Well, sure, but doesn't it feed the stereotype that he's dumb, unfair as that may be? LUNTZ: It feeds the stereotype that he's a human being, rather than a robot, and that's -- look, the American people voted for a human being in the year 2000. If they wanted to vote for an automotron, they would have voted for Al Gore.

They wanted to vote for someone who has the same emotions and the same feelings, and quite frankly, makes an occasional mistake or two, because that's what being human is all about. And that's why Bush beat Al Gore.

PRESS: Al Gore, who also made an occasional mistake or two and...

LUNTZ: With the truth. With the truth.

PRESS: ... was humiliated for it time and time again.

I want to ask you -- you keep bringing up Bill Clinton, and I don't know any Democrat -- who was not on Marc Rich's payroll -- who defends these pardons. But I want to ask you about the other side of it, Frank. And I want a real honest answer, right on your birthday.

Bill Clinton has always been blessed by his enemies. Aren't you embarrassed when you see Dan Burton huffing and puffing every day on television? I mean, this guy would investigate Clinton if he bent over to tie his shoes!

LUNTZ: Yeah, but the thing is, I know Dan Burton. Dan Burton is an honest man and a very decent man, and someone who loves this country. He's a patriot.

PRESS: Well, we all love our country.

(CROSSTALK)

LUNTZ: No, what Dan Burton and his colleagues believe that when you are elected president of the United States, you should uphold a higher standard. That being president -- it makes you a role model for other people.

And you would hope that at least on the last day of his presidency, that Bill Clinton would leave office with dignity, with a certain level of ethical behavior. And the problem is, Bill, he didn't do it.

PRESS: All right...

LUNTZ: He had the chance...

PRESS: No, no, no, Frank. Thank you. I agree. He did not do it, OK? But they're not going to amend the constitution, they're not going to get rid of the presidential power of pardon. They're not going to introduce any legislation. So, what's Burton doing? He's just doing a political song-and-dance. Wouldn't you agree? That's why I say, aren't you embarrassed by the overkill? LUNTZ: Not only am I not embarrassed -- look, you know that on many occasions, I've said that the Republicans were too angry and were too hostile during the entire Clinton impeachment affair. And let you know that I feel that the Republicans did as much harm to themselves as good.

That being said, the more that we learn about these facts behind these pardons, the more that we find out that there's some real unethical behavior behind it, and the American people are prepared to allow the facts laid out before them, and then make a judgment.

I actually think that this time the Republicans are behaving in quite an effective way by merely focusing on the facts and not doing the condemnation until the information is put out before them.

CARLSON: It sounds to me, Frank, from the Gallop poll that CNN has had for a lot of the day, that Clinton's numbers have started to slide even before, you know, the latest -- the Hugh Rodham story has had a chance to sink in. Why are the American people all of a sudden deciding, after Monica and all of the rest of it, all of a sudden, boy, this guy is a creep, now? Why are they deciding that now?

LUNTZ: And that's the question. I can give you the answer: because up until this point, it was a private, a personal matter with Bill Clinton. For the first time, you've got personal financial gain involved. You've got the ethical behavior of other individuals involved.

For the first time, people are seeing Bill Clinton not for practicing something that they didn't approve of in the privacy of the Oval Office, which one could still argue about, but you see him doing things that represent truly unethical behavior on a public scale, and now some people are actually making money off of this behavior. That is unacceptable.

PRESS: Well, Hugh Rodham liked it for a while.

CARLSON: OK! Frank Luntz, we'll be back.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Apparently not. We will be back in just a minute with Republican pollster and super genius Frank Luntz.

We're still awaiting your nominations for "Spin of The Day," so send them to us, call them in. We'll be right back.

PRESS: "Spin of The Day" is coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PRESS: It's THE SPIN ROOM. Bill Press and Tucker Carlson right here. Boy wonder Frank Luntz, Republican consultant is our guest tonight. We're looking back at this wild and wacky week in politics.

But there has been other political news of the day... CARLSON: There certainly has been...

PRESS: And we would not be doing our public's duty if we didn't bring it to you.

CARLSON: That's absolutely right, and of course, like all news, this news leads with Roger Clinton, who gave an extensive interview to "The L.A. Times." It turns out that Roger Clinton asked on behalf of six friends for presidential pardons, six buddies of his he thought needed to be pardoned. He took no money for that, and he didn't get any of them. There's a moral to this story, and I'm not sure what it is.

PRESS: And we move on to South Carolina. We mentioned our friend Lindsey Graham has announced that he's going to run for Strom Thurmond's seat. Strom Thurmond has another idea: he has put together a video addressed to the governor of South Carolina saying, I will retire ahead of time, early, before I turn 100, if you appoint my ex- wife Nancy to take my seat. The governor has said, nice try, Strom, no deal.

CARLSON: OK. And now, a bit of a correction here in THE SPIN ROOM. We referred a couple of times to a man named Lyle Prouse...

PRESS: We?

CARLSON: I! Who was famously a Northwest airlines' pilot who was convicted of FUI, flying under the influence, and he was pardoned by Bill Clinton. We shamelessly and heartlessly mocked him, until we received an e-mail from Craig Mills, a friend, who pointed out we ought to do a little research.

And so we did. It turns out that Lyle Prouse served his time, was fully rehabilitated and rehired by Northwest airlines; became a 747 pilot, the highest level at that airline, and retired with honor. He now flies medical mission flights for free. I should also point out that he was a Marine Corps aviator and a decorated war hero.

So it turns out that even Bill Clinton sometimes does the right thing. Probably by accident.

PRESS: I think that was very gracious of you, Tucker. And I would suggest, if you look at a lot more of the pardons, you'll find a lot more of them...

CARLSON: Right, Bill, no...

PRESS: ... were worthwhile.

CARLSON: Only one!

PRESS: Yes.

Here's a lot of e-mail -- a lot of e-mail about our comments about Rush Limbaugh. You know, Rush Limbaugh has said we are the cable show that nobody watches. Our viewers are incensed. Here's just one sample of the e-mails received: "Rush Limbaugh has got to be the biggest ass in talk show history. Bill and Tucker rock."

All I do is read them, Tucker.

CARLSON: I'm going to...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... after the show, I will be giving out, for all of you Rush Limbaugh fans out there, Bill Press' home address and phone number.

OK! Here's one to Frank Luntz. "Dear Mr. Luntz, what has happened in the last four years that has made Republicans decide the federal government ought to have greater control of education. How could a party go from wanting to eliminate an office to, four years later, wanting to expand it."

And that is a great question, Frank Luntz. What is this 11 percent increase for funding for the Department of Education?

FRANK LUNTZ, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: Well, I think it has to do with the public's demand that education in our school systems are failing. And, quite frankly, there's a split within the Republican party in Washington. There are a fair number of Republicans that don't believe that Washington should have any role in education, but the American people are demanding a greater role.

Quite frankly, what the American people are looking for is funding, but Tucker, as you know, whenever you get money coming out of Washington there are always strings attached. All it is it's, basically, the public saying to Washington, our schools are failing, we want better schools.

And by the way, I want to go back to one point about Strom Thurmond. You know what the Democratic strategy is to get Thurmond out over the next year before his term is up? It's to introduce him to Anna Nicole Smith, and then let -- let nature take its course.

PRESS: Hey! He would give her a harmless hug, just like he gave Hillary on the first day of the Senate.

Frank, I want to ask you about another politician who keeps coming up on the news, because he keeps doing things that are beyond his job. And of course, I'm talking about the governor of Minnesota, Jesse Ventura.

He's also issued -- his latest trick is -- I don't know if you can see this on the monitor -- that the media out there now in the state Capitol have to wear passes which identify them as "Jackals." Actually, he's proposed it, now he's delayed it for -- he says he's still going to do it, he's delayed it for a little bit.

What's up with Jesse Ventura? Is he still riding high? LUNTZ: No, the truth is, Jesse Ventura had one of the highest favorability ratings in the country for any politician, because he didn't sound like a politician.

And then, all of a sudden, he gave this interview to that well- known small publication, "Playboy," where he condemned people who are religious. And all of a sudden, his favorability numbers crashed from about 55 or 60 percent down into the 30s, and they've never come back.

The fact is, the American people do believe in God. They do believe in religiosity. They don't like the constant criticisms of religion. And when Ventura went that far, it was as though he went too far over the line. And so, he's no longer the credible individual that he once was.

CARLSON: So you won't see politicians in the next cycle, 2002, emulating his style at all?

LUNTZ: And I don't think you'll see many politicians doing interviews for "Playboy".

PRESS: Or...

CARLSON: Didn't work for (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

PRESS: ... color commentary to football games either, perhaps.

CARLSON: Well, that's -- yeah, that's absolutely right.

Now, tell me one thing that has just been baffling. We saw, I think, a couple days ago, several days ago, with these hearings where Jack Quinn was answering questions about the pardons. You saw Joe diGenova, Victoria Toensing and Dave Bossey (ph), famous Republican investigators sitting there, apparently representing Jack Quinn.

Is this -- what is this -- I mean, is this peculiar Washington arrangement here?

LUNTZ: It reminded me of the days when I used to drink in college and just could not focus. I thought I was, basically, having a flashback there. You know, it would be Timothy Leary on acid to expect all those people sitting in the same row.

Look, Washington is a very strange place. And you've all heard the line that it makes very strange bedfellows. I don't know how to explain it, except that maybe they just couldn't get a date, so they ended up together in the same room.

PRESS: I want you to put a Democratic hat on now. If you can, and if you were looking ahead, if you were a Democratic consultant, you wanted to put together the strongest candidate for 2004 to take on W., who would it be? Would it be Al Gore? If not, who else would it be?

LUNTZ: It would -- quite frankly, it would not be Al Gore.

And by the way, Bill, I don't know if you know, but this is the 54th anniversary today of the alien landing in Roswell, New Mexico.

PRESS: Actually, I did know. I'm heading out there after the show.

LUNTZ: And -- but did you also know that exactly nine months to the day that the aliens landed, Al Gore was born?

PRESS: It's an old joke. Old joke.

LUNTZ: That's exactly why he would not make the best candidate.

CARLSON: But who would?

LUNTZ: Joe Lieberman. Joe Lieberman clearly cuts across the ideological spectrum. He would be a surprise for a lot of people. I happen to think that he actually did relatively well during the 2000 campaign. And that -- he doesn't come from the liberal wing of the Democratic Party, and I think that would help him appeal to moderates and centrists.

CARLSON: Except when he's running...

PRESS: All right.

CARLSON: ... with Al Gore.

OK! Frank Luntz, happy birthday. Go get some cake. Thanks for joining us here on THE SPIN ROOM.

LUNTZ: Thank you.

PRESS: That's the trap door, Frank.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Buckle your seatbelt, thank you.

PRESS: Good to have you back. And we'll be back with "Spins of the Day."

CARLSON: We certainly will. Send us yours.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Welcome to the last segment of the last show of the week. This is THE SPIN ROOM. I'm Tucker Carlson, Bill Press...

PRESS: Glad it's not the last show...

CARLSON: That's right. Now, it's always been my contention: the Clintons are not a couple, they are a brain virus, and if you hang around them long enough they infect you. And I'm afraid last night you were infected. And I want to show what happened last night when you were talking about the Clintons. They just took over your nervous system. Watch. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESS: Actually Clinton...

CARLSON: You just called me Clinton.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PRESS: I did call you Clinton. I don't know what happened.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: It was sad.

PRESS: I do not care enough about you to compliment you that well...

(LAUGHTER)

PRESS: ... so it must have been a mistake.

CARLSON: OK.

PRESS: Thank you, Tucker. I'll get you.

We have some real mail for those who don't have computers. There are some of you out there, like Kathy McAdams (ph), who says, "I love your show. I never miss it, but, Tucker, give President Clinton a break. Let him enjoy his own private life now. I'm a young 78-years- old." Watch out for her, Tucker. Kathy McAdams, thank you.

CARLSON: Mrs. McAdams -- no chance!

OK, this is from James Miller from Squirrel Valley, California, asking news media organizations to perform a recount of the Florida presidential votes. Makes almost as much sense as asking the Boston Strangler to massage your sore neck.

PRESS: Squirrel Valley -- yes, we're big on squirrel brains around here.

Next, from Dorothy Rice from Copperas Cove, it looks like, Texas.

"Thank you for having an address for all of us old fogies that do not own a computer. Please pass on to whoever is the creator of your opening graphics/cartoons about your guest my congratulations. They are really eye-catching and intelligent."

We agree. She is Elaine Holbert (ph). She is the real star of the show.

CARLSON: She is the best.

PRESS: She does the graphics of the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) every night.

CARLSON: Send us letters.

You can reach us at: SPINROOM CNN, 820 First Street, NE, Washington, D.C. 20002. Now, of course...

PRESS: Of course.

CARLSON: We're here most of the time, but you know, fairly soon we may be taking THE SPIN ROOM on the road.

May I suggest Stillwater, Oklahoma?

PRESS: It's our first stop.

CARLSON: It's our first stop. We got a present here -- The Dragons Lair. Stillwater's premier gentlemen's club. "Strippers for Spin," says the shirt.

PRESS: Strippers for spin. This is signed by who?

CARLSON: Signed by every stripper at The Dragon's Lair (UNINTELLIGIBLE) including Candy and Brandy and Kara and Mary Jane and Tigress. So look for the THE SPIN ROOM coming soon to The Dragon's Lair in Stillwater, Oklahoma. Thank you, ladies.

PRESS: I also have my own stripper shirt. I'm very, very proud of this. I also want to thank you, ladies.

I just have to say, but, you know, Tucker, I think if I were in The Dragon's Lair I wouldn't be watching THE SPIN ROOM on television.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: We're almost out of time. I think it's time for our "Spins of the Day."

PRESS: Yes, except we have Valery from Florida here really quick.

CARLSON: Indeed we do.

PRESS: Hello, Valery. Quick phone spin.

CALLER: Well...

PRESS: Hi, Valery.

CALLER: The real tragedy is that we're still stuck with Bill Clinton but we've lost a true hero in Dale Earnhardt.

PRESS: Well, we did indeed. And thank you for the call.

CARLSON: OK. My "Spin of the Day" comes from Tony Blair, who was at the podium today describing his response to the Clinton scandals. Here's Tony Blair.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: As I've said to people before and I said a couple of days ago, Bill Clinton is a friend of mine, he'll always stay a friend of mine. But I'm not getting into all the stuff that's in your newspapers at the moment, if you don't mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: "In your newspapers." "In your newspapers"! Getting high-handed about the American press.

Well, OK, we checked all the British newspapers today and it turns out Hillary is on the front page of all of them. And I want to read really quick selected headlines from today in the British press.

"Severed Heads Paraded in Borneo Massacre."

"Jennifer Lopez is Not Known for Shy and Retiring Ways."

"Brother of Murdered Cellist Begs for Help."

"Painkillers Turn Stars into Junkies."

And my favorite, "Jennifer Aniston's Lesbian Shocker." Before you get high-handed with the American press, Tony Blair, read your own newspapers.

PRESS: You know what it sounds like? It sounds like ratings period for a local TV station.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: It does! It's sweeps on Fleet Street.

PRESS: I worked at a station in Los Angeles that had that.

So we have --, here's my "Spin of the Day" -- the new chairman of the Democratic National Committee had his words about what he thinks Bill Clinton should be doing for the next couple of weeks. Terry McAuliffe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TERRY MCAULIFFE, DNC CHAIRMAN: I would like the president to take some rest. We have a very important job here at the Democratic party to build on the successes we had in 2000 and go forward. Bill Clinton will be part of the Democratic party forever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PRESS: That is Terry McAuliffe. By the way, you can see that on "CAPITOL GANG" on CNN tomorrow. I love the fact that Terry McAuliffe said Bill Clinton should take a rest. Hillary said the same thing yesterday. They're piling on poor Bill.

CARLSON: America is saying that, Bill. PRESS: The biggest stories of the week -- you want to know.

Here's how you voted, folks. Thirty-four of you said the spy story was the biggest in our "Quick Vote" tonight. Forty-three percent of you said the Clinton pardon story was the biggest story, and 23 of you said the Dale Earnhardt tragedy.

Boy, what a week. I'm out of breath.

CARLSON: Big stories -- we're going to have big stories every single night next week on THE SPIN ROOM, 10:30 Eastern. Tune in. It's going to be a terrific week.

PRESS: OK. Thank you, strippers. Sports guys are next.

CARLSON: We'll be back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PRESS: A wild week, Tucker. I feel another wild week coming up.

CARLSON: Stillwater, Oklahoma? It's always a wild week. OK! On to "SPORTS TONIGHT." Hola, Vince.

PRESS: Hey, Vince.

VINCE CELLINI, "SPORTS TONIGHT": How you guys doing?

PRESS: Excellent.

CARLSON: We're ready for the weekend, man.

CELLINI: Oh, yeah. We're almost there, and I'll tell you what -- we got a jam-packed show here on Friday to get you started for the weekend. .

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