The Point With Greta Van Susteren

The San Diego School Shooting: What Can Be Done to Spot Troubled Kids?

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN.

The warning signs were there.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody liked him. Everyone picked on him. He had no friends.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How funny it'd be to do a re-enactment of the Columbine, how funny it'd be to get attention.

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ANNOUNCER: How come no one stopped him?

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because he said he was joking, so we didn't want to tell on him.

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ANNOUNCER: What teens tell each other, and don't tell their parents.

THE POINT: Schools under siege. What we have learned from past incidents.

Among our guests, the governor of Colorado and the father of a student killed at Columbine.

Dick Cheney goes home from the hospital, and the president's eager to have him back at work.

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GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's plenty strong and plenty capable of carrying the workload that he's been working in the past.

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ANNOUNCER: Tonight, veteran correspondent Helen Thomas on Washington workloads, and workaholics.

And say it ain't so, Senator Byrd.

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SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: And I just as soon quit talking about it so much.

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ANNOUNCER: THE POINT. Now, from Washington, Greta Van Susteren.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Could it have been stopped? Clearly, the answer is yes. So why wasn't it? That's the question haunting all of us, especially the people in Santee, California, where a gunman killed two students at Santana High School yesterday and wounded 13 others.

Tonight's "Flashpoint": Schools under siege. Here are the latest developments.

For the first time, we've gotten a look at the school where the shootings happened. Authorities say the gunman hid in a bathroom, opening the door and shooting people at random.

This afternoon's tour was arranged during an inspection, as officials prepare to reopen the school tomorrow. Outside Santana High School students and parents have created a makeshift memorial to the victims of the shooting, bringing flowers, mementos, and other tributes.

The alleged gunman, 15-year-old Charles Andrew Williams, he goes by Andy, will be arraigned tomorrow. The charges against him include murder, assault and weapons possession. The boy's mother, who's divorced from his father and lives in South Carolina, today apologized to the victim's families.

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LINDA WELLS, SUSPECT'S MOTHER: My heart goes out to them. They've lost their babies, their hopes their dreams for their futures.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you say something about Andy?

L. WELLS: He's lost.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's lost?

L.WELLS: His future is gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: If that's not a warning sign for school violence, what is? And haven't we learned anything from similar tragedies?

I'm joined by four guests: California Governor Gray Davis is in Sacramento, and in Denver is Colorado Governor Bill Owens. He was in office during the Columbine High School shootings.

In Stapleton, Colorado, Brian Rohrbough. His son, Daniel, was killed at Columbine. And in Santee, California, is district school Superintendent Granger Ward.

Governor Davis, first to you. Senator Feinstein on this air, on Wolf Blitzer's show a half an hour before, said this never happened when she was growing up, school shootings. Why do you think that we're seeing so many of them now? It didn't happen when I was growing up.

GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, it didn't happen when I was growing up either, Greta. But the fact is, it's happening. It happened in Columbine. It's happened elsewhere, and we have to go forward.

After Columbine I called together a whole bunch of experts: law enforcement personnel, school personnel, students, and we came up with a menu of items and allocated 245 million dollars from which schools could choose. And they could choose an armed security officer, they could choose a counselor, they could choose these magnetometers. There were a variety of things that they could choose to try and enhance safety. Cleary...

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Having said that, Governor, let me ask you then, you have this menu, you have this 245 million and unfortunately within your state you still have this tragedy yesterday. What broke down?

DAVIS: Well, I was going to say, clearly we have not done enough. I mean, parents need to do more with their kids. We need to be better listeners. If kids are being picked on and teased and then they say they may do something horrendous, even if they say they're joking, we have to take that seriously.

If you're at the airport and you just joke that you have an explosive in your luggage, boy, those authorities whisk you aside and they look through everything you brought with you and they'll detain you for hours. So, we have to be just as serious at schools because we saw yesterday how grave the consequences are when we don't take this seriously. I mean, it may sound like a joke but wounding 13 people and killing two kids is clearly no joke.

VAN SUSTEREN: Governor Owens, let me take the issue of jokes versus threats. Where do we draw the line between juvenile behavior and clearly criminal behavior? How do parents and teachers know the difference?

GOV. BILL OWENS (R), COLORADO: Well, I think that you just simply don't want to take any risks. If somebody is joking about it, you, once again to use the airport analogy, you treat it seriously and you, you investigate it.

I think it's clear that based on what we've seen in California, based on what we've seen in Colorado and other states, that if adults or children hear other children talking about acts of violence we need to take it seriously. We need to pursue it, investigate it, clear it.

VAN SUSTEREN: Governor Owens, you put together after the tragedy in your state at Columbine a summit on school safety prevention. One of the suggestions was a hot line for students to report when other students are making threats. Do you think, is that something that you would recommend that they do across the country?

OWENS: It is, and it's being done in a lot of states. It very well may be something that's in operation in California. And, those hot lines have worked well here in Colorado. There have been a number of instances where students and others have used hot lines to report on an anonymous basis if they want to be anonymous.

It's a very serious problem in a country of more than 250 million persons. There are always going to be some misguided, perhaps sick individuals who do these things. Our challenge as adults is to try to listen to the warning signs, try to learn from these tragedies as we, in fact, learned a little bit from Columbine so that we can reduce these in the future.

VAN SUSTEREN: Brian, you know, we thought we learned a lot from Columbine but since you lost your son, unfortunately others have lost children. What, what do you think this -- what's causing this? Is it guns, is it copycat crimes? Do you have any sort of thought about why we're seeing such a spate of these horrible tragedies?

BRIAN ROHRBOUGH, COLUMBINE VICTIM'S FATHER: It's a difficult issue to narrow down to just one or two things but I think President Bush hit the nail on the head when he said we need to teach right from wrong. And I think that when we start enforcing the laws we have, and we start holding criminals accountable, instead of making accuses for them, we can probably drop a lot of this type of violence.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, let me address that obviously difficult question for you, the issue of holding criminals accountable. The young man or young boy in California is 15. Should he, in your mind, be held accountable as an adult.

ROHRBOUGH: Absolutely. What he did was cold blooded murder. He carried out a terrorist attack public on a public school. And he should be punished to the full extent of the law, and certainly I hope he's given the death penalty and that it's carried out swiftly.

VAN SUSTEREN: Granger, what efforts were made prior to this tragedy in your school, in Santee, to prevent this in light of what happened in Columbine?

GRANGER WARD, GROSSMONT SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT: In fact, the governor mentioned the incredible support that's come from the state in terms of funding for safe schools. And this one of the schools that has been using that money extensively in training with students, and bringing additional staff on to the campuses to provide a secure environment, and working with kids and a variety of programs teaching respect, and self respect.

So, we've been able to use a large amount of those funds to address needs of our kids on the campus and particularly in Santana.

VAN SUSTEREN: But Granger, I hate to be the devil's advocate and I hate to pour salt in a wound when there's been such a terrible tragedy but the governor has talked about funds, you talk about the funds and how much been done, but the fact is it happened again yesterday in your school where you have those funds. So it doesn't necessarily prove to me that we're on the right track.

WARD: Right. It definitely did happen and we have to deal with that. But what we've seen is extensive work at this school, in particular, and throughout our entire district where we've been training kids and teaching them, as I said, about respect. How not to call names and how to report. And we have been hammering that into kids, "report if you hear, report if you hear."

It obviously didn't work in this circumstance with the students who allegedly heard, and the adults who allegedly heard, because there was no reporting to the school or to law enforcement and that's one of the greatest tragedies.

VAN SUSTEREN: Governor Davis, sound like we maybe should rethink, at least in part, how it's been done. I mean, I mean if your state actually took steps and we have the problem in your state, is there, are you going to go back to the drawing board on this?

DAVIS: Yes, I think we have to, Greta. I'm not sure today is day to do it but we have to assess what went wrong and what we can do to minimize the chances that this could happen again in the future.

There are some good things are happening. We had 500 weapons confiscated over the last two years. As I said before, there is no excuse for a child, none, to bring a weapon on campus but we are finding those things and preventing other tragedies from occurring around the state.

Up in De Anza College near San Jose people took seriously some concerns that a young person would bring explosives onto a campus -- checked his apartment, found the explosives and prevented a tragedy. So the most important thing we can do I think is to listen more attentively -- and excuse me, my voice -- and take seriously any potential threats.

VAN SUSTEREN: Governor Owens, what strikes me most about all these horrible tragedies, it seems like they're copycat crimes. I keep referring to that, but it seems almost like it's become in vogue crime for some, you know, some child who wants to act in a criminal fashion. What about that? Do you think that's some part of it, and how do we address that if I'm right?

OWENS: You know, Greta, I think you probably are right. I think that the testimony has shown so far that this young man knew about Columbine, his friends talked about Columbine. They talked about avoiding Columbine, not doing a Columbine there in California. But it clearly is something that has stuck in the psyche of some of our students.

We had a near copycat incident in Fort Collins, Colorado, where luckily students and adults reported the student, and that student has been arrested.

It's not ever going to be perfect. We're never going to be able to establish a perfect world. But what I think we can do is follow up on what Brian Rohrbough said, and that is to try to teach our children better the difference between right and wrong, respect for life. In many ways this is a question of culture and value as opposed to good things like better security at schools and things that both Gray Davis and I have worked on.

But underlying it all is the question of values of these children and what sort of sea they're swimming in that leads them to do these horrible acts of violence.

VAN SUSTEREN: Granger, are you opening the school tomorrow and trying to do business as usual in spite of the tragedy?

WARD: Well, it will not be business as usual, but school will open tomorrow. We're going to have all the kids back into school, and we're going to bring in massive support in terms of trained clinicians and support personnel so that we'll have individuals in every single classroom so that we can begin the healing process for our students. It's a similar process that we began today with our staff, and we've continued with our parents and staff in community centers since the tragedy occurred.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. We have to take a break. My thanks to governors Gray Davis of California and Bill Owens of Colorado as well as Brian Rohrbough and Granger Ward, for joining us.

In a minute, the heart of power in Washington, health crises past, and maybe present, when THE POINT returns.

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VAN SUSTEREN: Dick Cheney's not only out of the hospital, he's working, or at least sending e-mail from home. And he expects to be in the office tomorrow. The vice president spent less than 24 hours in the hospital and says he feels good even though he underwent a balloon angioplasty yesterday.

President Bush says there's no doubt Cheney's up to the pressure of his job.

Dick Cheney has a unique and powerful role in this administration. No one -- and I mean no one -- knows more about the inner workings of the White House, and presidents and their vice presidents than Helen Thomas. She's been a White House correspondent since the Kennedy administration. And no one -- and I mean no one -- is more direct and candid than Helen Thomas. She joins me tonight to talk about Vice President Cheney.

Helen, thank you for joining me.

HELEN THOMAS, HEARST NEWSPAPERS COLUMNIST: Thank you, and what an introduction.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, you deserve it.

THOMAS: I better quit while I'm ahead.

VAN SUSTEREN: Helen, let me -- let me ask you something. Do you -- are you satisfied the American people know all there is to know about Dick Cheney's health? Are we getting a clear picture?

THOMAS: Well, I think we had -- we did have a conflicting report when he had his earlier heart attack and they didn't call it a heart attack. I think they're trying to be very candid, I really do. I think it was very difficult to tell what it was at first. They always opt on the safe side, saying it's precautionary and so forth. But I think the truth always comes out.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you think we have a right to know? This is the vice president, not the president.

THOMAS: Absolutely.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why?

THOMAS: Absolutely.

VAN SUSTEREN: Doesn't he have any privacy? I mean at least let him...

THOMAS: That's not a question of privacy. It's a question of, you know, they're in a very, very important position, they make very, very important decisions.

VAN SUSTEREN: He's vice president.

THOMAS: I don't care. He's still involved. He's still very powerful in the White House, apparently. And he's -- he's one heartbeat away.

VAN SUSTEREN: Yeah, but you know, I remember sort of when President Clinton hurt his knee, we had -- even CNN put pictures up and maybe even a little music with the pictures, when President Reagan had problems. But even though it's the vice president, not the president?

THOMAS: I think so. Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right...

THOMAS: I mean, we're not going to get the blow by blow probably on him unless we shoe, the media shows that interest. But I do think it's very important to know what's going on.

VAN SUSTEREN: What kind of vice president -- is he busy?

THOMAS: Bigger?

VAN SUSTEREN: Busy. Is he busy?

THOMAS: Oh, I think he's very busy, because he's the gravitas of this administration. It's very clear that they've loaded him with a lot of extra duties. You know, the level head, feet on the ground, so forth.

VAN SUSTEREN: Compare him to other vice presidents, to Quayle and Gore?

THOMAS: I don't think he's a Svengali, but I do think he is the eminence grise.

VAN SUSTEREN: But is he -- is he different in terms of his workload compared to what Vice President Gore did and Vice President Quayle?

THOMAS: Yes. I mean, what I gather -- and I honestly don't know for sure -- but the others were very, very busy, but they were separate in a way, although, you know, Truman was never told that we had an atomic bomb. When he took over, I mean, he said, boys, the moon and the stars fell on me. If you've ever prayed before, pray for me, when he suddenly found out what was in his hands.

Well, since then we have tried to keep vice presidents a little better informed. They do attend the foreign policies meetings. I mean, they get briefed and so forth. But in this case, I think Cheney is really inner circle.

VAN SUSTEREN: And -- and that's a departure from before?

THOMAS: Well, I -- no. I think Gore definitely was, Mondale was, and so forth. But this is -- I think he plays a bigger role in decision-making because this president, President Bush says, I'll rely on my advisers. So I think there is a heavy reliance on Cheney.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now...

THOMAS: Because he's been there, done that.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now we have a microscope on President Bush and a microscope on Vice President Cheney. Is it too soon to judge how they are doing? We always talk about the first 100 days. Is that fair?

THOMAS: I think it's very fair. I think you should -- they should be judged every day.

VAN SUSTEREN: And what about access? Are they giving appropriate access, in your mind? Do you want more access? Should the media have more access to them? THOMAS: Well, I think -- I think they're trying. Definitely the president has had a news conference. He's had also two joint news conferences with foreign leaders and so forth. And I think they are coming around. He's on the road a lot, and he does seem to be answering questions.

But -- so I think they've got a lot of access.

VAN SUSTEREN: What about the...

THOMAS: So far.

VAN SUSTEREN: So far. What about the media? In your view, has the media done a good job of...

THOMAS: No, I think not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why?

THOMAS: I think there are a lot of questions they should be asking on what's happening. They're so focused on Clinton's pardons for so long when this administration was taking over that I think they've got to play catchup now.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, what should they be focusing on? What's the media missing?

THOMAS: I think, you know, definitely where Bush is intending to go. I mean, he talks about bipartisanship, but he sure has a one- track mind. I haven't seen him give an inch yet.

VAN SUSTEREN: What about any particular issues in the White House? Is the media a little soft on Bush or hard on Bush?

THOMAS: Well, I think they should question the injection of a religious office in the White House for the first time in our history, 200 years plus in which we were able to do without one.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why should they focus on that?

THOMAS: Because it's a very, very important constitutional issue, and because it will impinge on all of our social programs. I think we ought to know where they're going, how much will be spent, who is it going to be spent on.

VAN SUSTEREN: The White House correspondents at least appear to me to be sort of a tight-knit group. Does this group -- if indeed that's true -- does this group like President Bush personally better than they liked President Clinton or do they like President Clinton better?

THOMAS: I don't know. I don't think that we're a group, but I think every individual makes his own -- or her own -- decisions.

VAN SUSTEREN: Who had it easier, do you think? Was there sharper... THOMAS: I think, you know, Clinton never had a minute of honeymoon. Not one second in the White House. President Bush has got a honeymoon. It's still on, although I think the newspapers tried to declare it an end on Saturday. I think it's still going on.

VAN SUSTEREN: My thanks to "Hearst" newspapers' columnist Helen Thomas. Her new book, by the way, "Helen Thomas Front Row At The White House: My Life and Times."

In a minute, a powerful slip of the tongue, or a Freudian slip? THE POINT returns after a quick break and our "MONEYLINE" update.

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VAN SUSTEREN: Aha! Caught in the act? Or was it a mistake?

Tonight's "final point": Sometimes saying you're sorry just isn't enough. Sunday, Senator Robert Byrd had this to say during a nationally broadcast interview.

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SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: My own mom told me, "Robert, you can't go to heaven if you hate anybody." We practice that. There are white niggers -- and I have seen a lot of white niggers in my time (UNINTELLIGIBLE) use that word. But, we've all -- we all -- we just need to work together to make our country a better country. And I would just as soon quit talking about it so much.

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VAN SUSTEREN: Byrd's office later issued an apology which states in part: "I apologize for the characterization used on this program...the phrase dates back to my boyhood and has no place in today's society. As for my language, I had no intention of casting aspersions on anyone of another race. In my attempt to articulate strongly held feelings, I may have offended some people." Unquote.

Here's the problem: It isn't "may have offended." He did offend some people -- me, for one. I worry when so-called "slips" might mask unexpressed feelings. And today, House Majority Leader Dick Armey's comments that Byrd would be forgiven because he's a Democrat certainly didn't put the matter to rest.

Senator Byrd has made another grievous mistake in his life. In the 1940s, he joined the Ku Klux Klan. To his credit, he's acknowledged this membership publicly and says he's not proud of it. I hope this remark is not a revelation, but rather a misjudgment on his part. Senator Byrd has been critical of others, including former President Bill Clinton, for -- quote -- "lowering the standards of our culture." Unquote.

My take: an apology is a great first step, but not the last step. I think he owes us all -- black, white and everyone else -- more than just an apology. He's in a wonderful position, as a United States senator, to show African-Americans what he really thinks about them. I look forward to seeing what he chooses to do since actions speak much louder than words.

Let me know what you think. Send an e-mail to askgreta@cnn.com. That's one word, askgreta.

I'm Greta Van Susteren in Washington. Next on "LARRY KING LIVE": a lineup of psychics, but I bet you already knew that.

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