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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

U.S.-China Standoff: President Bush Makes Conciliatory Comments

Aired April 05, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: a CNN special report, "U.S.- China Standoff." President Bush adds his regrets over the collision, but offers no apology.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our relationship with China is very important, and -- but they need to realize that it's time for our people to be home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: As the United States and China step up efforts to resolve the dispute, we'll go to the White House, the Pentagon and to Beijing. And I'll speak live with former United Nations ambassador Richard Holbrooke, who's often been the U.S. go-to guy when it comes to conflict resolution.

And I'll also speak live with Congressman Mark Kirk, a naval reserve intelligence officer who flew on a similar reconnaissance plane during the Kosovo conflict.

Good evening. Welcome to our special report: "The U.S.-China Standoff," day five. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.

President Bush today offered conciliatory comments toward China, although there was no public sign the Chinese government has eased its demand for a formal U.S. apology. There were indications the pace of secret diplomatic activity is picking up. One sign of that, Secretary of State Colin Powell was still working in his office last night at 2:30 a.m. But 24 members of the U.S. Navy surveillance plane remain on the ground in China, so the standoff continues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): President Bush echoed Secretary Powell's expression of regret, but carefully avoided a formal apology.

BUSH: I regret that a Chinese pilot is missing, and I regret one of their airplanes is lost, and our prayers go out to the pilot, his family. Our prayers are also with our own servicemen and women, and they need to come home. BLITZER: The White House says the U.S. and China are heavily engaged in sensitive, behind-the-scenes diplomacy, including Powell sending a letter to China's top diplomat, asking that the crew be released. U.S. officials say they see some encouraging signs. A State Department source tells CNN China's ambassador to Washington delivered a "positive response" to the Powell letter.

Chinese President Jiang Zemin, visiting Chile, said both sides should try to find a solution. Still, he appeared to continue to insist on an apology.

JIANG ZEMIN, PRESIDENT OF CHINA (through translator): I have visited many countries, and I see it as very normal that when people bump into each other, it is normal that these people say "excuse me" or "pardon me."

BLITZER: The Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman called the U.S. crew "lawbreakers" and confirmed they had been questioned. The White House refused to call it an interrogation, once again insisting the crew did nothing wrong, and that no apology would be forthcoming.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The best way to determine the exact facts and circumstances of the accident which took place over international waters in international airspace is to talk to the crew.

BLITZER: U.S. officials remain frustrated. A second meeting between American diplomats on Hainan island and the crew has not yet been approved.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: As the United States adopts a more conciliatory stance and steps up its talks with China, is the end to the standoff any closer? Joining us live, CNN senior White House correspondent John King. John, what do we know about behind-the-scenes diplomatic activity?

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: All day long, Wolf, terms like "guardedly optimistic," "we're beginning to make progress," coming from senior U.S. officials to us here at CNN. They acknowledge, however, the true test of all that will come in the hours ahead.

It is daybreak in China now. Senior U.S. officials telling us they have received indications, but no flat guarantee that those U.S. diplomats will be allowed a second meeting with the 24 crew members Friday, that's today in China right now.

We're also told the U.S. is urging the Chinese to show their good will by letting crew members phone home. One other key point in these negotiations: we're told both sides are discussing a joint commission to investigate the accident. Now, the U.S. side has made clear from the beginning they would agree to such commission after the crew was released, but we're told by one senior U.S. official tonight, the Chinese are making that a sticking point. They want such an agreement before they release the crew.

BLITZER: John, late this afternoon, Secretary of State Colin Powell went up to Capitol Hill to brief lawmakers. There are some lawmakers that are pretty irate right now, aren't there?

KING: A lot of lawmakers complaining about Chinese conduct, threatening sanction, anywhere from trade sanctions to other actions against the Chinese government, support for military sales to Taiwan. So, Secretary Powell went to Capitol Hill today with several missions: one, to bring members of the Senate Foreign Relation Committee up to speed on the conversation with the Chinese, at least as far up to speed as he's comfortable telling the lawmakers.

He also wanted to urge the lawmakers to refrain from any inflammatory statements in the next day or so, as these negotiations reach what senior officials say is a critical point. And thirdly, there have been complaints from the senior lawmakers on Capitol Hill that they weren't getting any guidance from the administration. Secretary Powell, up on Capitol Hill tonight, to ease those complaints.

BLITZER: John King at the White House, thank you very much.

While China has been questioning the crew of the U.S. plane, the Pentagon has been questioning the tactics of China's fighter pilots. We get more from CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sunday's collision was not the first time U.S. surveillance planes had a close encounter with Chinese pilot Wang Wei. Pentagon sources say U.S. air crews on previous reconnaissance missions had identified the F-8 pilot as a "cowboy" who seemed to revel in acrobatic moves designed to intimidate American pilots.

SEN. RICHARD LUGAR (R-IN), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Let me characterize his history as being one who was obviously interested in the assignments, to the point of taking pretty daring maneuvers.

MCINTYRE: Sources say Wang Wei was photographed by one U.S. crew in January. The Pentagon won't release the picture, but sources say in it, the Chinese pilot is dangerously close to the U.S. plane, and is holding a sign that appears to have an e-mail address on it. After that incident, the U.S. formally complained to China that its planes had come as close as 10 feet to U.S. planes.

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: A very strong protest was launched back in January. These fighter aircraft coming within a matter of feet of the reconnaissance aircraft.

MCINTYRE: Not wanting to disrupt delicate negotiations for the release of the Americans, the Pentagon is trying to appear nonconfrontational in public, refusing to take offense, for instance, at the Chinese questioning of the crew. REAR ADMIRAL CRAIG QUIGLEY, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: I don't think it would be a big surprise that the crew of the EP-3 would be interviewed.

MCINTYRE: And the Pentagon is scoffing at the suggestion from some retired military officers that the pilot, Lieutenant Shane Osborn, should have ditched his plane at sea rather than let it fall into the hands of the Chinese.

QUIGLEY: I have read that. I discount it completely. They cannot possibly understand what that pilot was going through at that moment. Only one person can -- him.

MCINTYRE: In fact, CNN has learned that the crew's pre-flight briefing orders said: "Emergency destruction is secondary to air crew safety."

(on camera): The Pentagon still insists the Chinese fighter is at fault. Based on damage to the U.S. plane, some here think the Chinese pilot came up under the left wing, effectively robbing it of lift, and causing the wing to drop down onto the Chinese plane. But officials won't know until they can talk to the U.S. crew.

Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: China is calling the U.S. expression of regret "a step in the right direction." Let's go live to CNN Beijing bureau chief Rebecca MacKinnon. Rebecca, you heard Jamie McIntyre's report, basically blaming, according to Pentagon sources, that Chinese pilot for being reckless in his interception efforts against the American plane. What are they saying in Beijing about the pilot?

REBECCA MACKINNON, CNN BEIJING BUREAU CHIEF: Well, this pilot here in China is being portrayed only positively, with reports about the loss that his family has incurred. But also, the reports here consistently are that the accident was entirely the U.S. plane's fault, that it turned sharply and bumped into the Chinese plane, and there's an insistence that absolutely the Chinese pilots were not to blame.

The Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman was asked about this pilot's flying record. He said he had no information about that -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Rebecca, what about the latest flurry of be behind-the- scenes diplomatic activity? Here in Washington, it seems like they're making some progress, are you getting the same impression there?

MACKINNON: Yes, we are getting that impression here. In fact, we spoke to some people at the U.S. embassy just this morning, as they were getting up and getting the word from Washington, and they say they are quite hopeful that there could be a meeting today between the U.S. diplomats waiting down in Hainan and the U.S. crew members. They say they've received no specific information, but the people are very hopeful at this stage -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Rebecca MacKinnon, it's already Friday in Beijing, thank you very much.

Up next: he knows a thing or two about resolving conflicts. I'll speak live with former U.N. ambassador and diplomatic troubleshooter Richard Holbrooke.

And later, I'll talk live with Congressman Mark Kirk. He's a reserve intelligence officer who's flown in a similar electronic surveillance aircraft. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER : Welcome back. A tense standoff, delicate negotiations, finding the right balance to resolve the conflict. Sounds like a job for Richard Holbrooke. The former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations has a long history of diplomatic troubleshooting. He helped broker an end to the war in Bosnia. Long before that, he headed the State Department's east Asia bureau when the United States established full relations with China.

Richard Holbrooke joins me live from New York to discuss the current standoff.

Ambassador Holbrooke, thanks for joining us. And let me get right to it. What has to be done right now to resolve this standoff?

RICHARD HOLBROOKE, FORMER AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Well, let's start with the bottom line. This is not yet a crisis, it is a problem. The Chinese have entirely it in their own capacity to either end it before it becomes a crisis or extend it in time until it really destroys Sino-American relations and affect Taiwan arm sales and 2008 Olympics and trading status with china, as your earlier reports made clear.

In the end, we're going to get the 24 men and women back and I think the bottom line to begin with, is the extraordinary courage and bravery of that pilot bringing the plane in with its nose sheared off.

Now, where we stand tonight, a few reports from Beijing and Washington are correct. The Chinese are beginning to realize what they didn't realize in the beginning because they're in their own cultural time zone. And that is, that since they're going to give these people back anyway -- this is not the Hanoi Hilton, this isn't the Iran hostage crisis, this isn't Americans held hostage.

This is an accident caused by a mistake by a Chinese pilot who's life is now gone because of it, and because Colin Powell very adroitly made his expression of regret without an apology, an apology being inappropriate. This can only end one way, with their release. But every day counts, because they're going to lock themselves in with consequences.

BLITZER : You know, historically speaking, coincidentally, today, the National Archives released some of the documents with the late President Richard Nixon and the opening up of china. Let me read to you one piece of advise he received from his national security team during that moment. That advise is this:

"Anything they (the Chinese) do has to look as if the initiative comes from them and that they are acting spontaneously out of sheer generosity. Your approach should be very low key."

Is that still good advice today?

HOLBROOKE: It's good advice in general. And I wouldn't overdue it. Those memos, which I read in 1977, have a historic quality to them. But we've learned a lot since then. It's 25 years later; the cultural revolution is over. We know each other, we're no longer adversaries, and that kind of attitude -- which has kind of a kowtow to the middle kingdom quality -- it treats the Chinese as some mysterious power in the middle of nowhere is a little bit overdone.

The Chinese are different, they have a long and continuous culture, and it's true that face is important to them. The fact is, they're holding 24 American men and women, they have to release them. And they and they alone control the speed in which they release them and the speed in which they release them, in turn, will directly affect their own interest and trade, the Olympics, Taiwan arm sales, and so one.

So, that kind of rhetoric and that wonderful memo you just read, I didn't realize it was released it today. But I remember vividly reading it for the first time when Carter (sic) replaced Nixon. And thinking, wow, this is some kind of history. It's not really relevant today.

BLITZER: The -- you won't be surprised when I read for you an excerpt from today's editorial in The "Wall Street Journal," which criticizes the Clinton administration's dealings with China. Let me read to you this excerpt.

"So Chinese President Jiang Zemin wants an American apology because one of his supersonic jets knocked down a lumbering U.S. spy plane over international waters. This is the kind of kowtow China had come to expect from the Clinton administration, which is why President Bush needs to send precisely the opposite message."

HOLBROOKE: You're in a reading mood tonight, Wolf.

BLITZER : What do you say about that kind of criticism with the administration you served in?

HOLBROOKE: I think that's gratuitous, it's speculative, I have absolutely no doubt that the Clinton administration would have reacted just as firmly as the Bush administration; an apology is not called for.

You, in your earlier segment, had a very important discussion with John King about the idea of an investigative commission. If that takes place, you could actually take out of this crisis -- it's not a crisis, excuse me -- out of this dilemma, which could become a crisis.

You could also turn it into an opportunity, for better liaison to avoid this kind of thing. You yourself know from your coverage of the State Department that's what happens between U.S. and the Soviet Union during the Nixon and Kissinger period afterwards.

Let's not get overheated here. Neither Clinton nor Bush kowtows in Beijing. Chinese-American relations will be long-term, for the rest of our lives, the most important by bilateral issue. We've got to get them right. I'm not going to suggest that the Clinton administration was perfect in relation to China, because they got off to a rather stumbly start in the first few years.

But as you yourself know, in the latter part, things were on an even keel and headed for a strong improvement and kowtowing, which is what that editorial accused Clinton of, is simply not justified by the facts.

BLITZER : All right, Richard Holbrooke, former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., thanks for your insight and thanks for joining us.

HOLBROOKE: Thank you, and I want to be clear, Wolf, this thing will resolve itself, but the Chinese must understand that the longer they delay, the higher the cost to them. They're not going to damage our national interest and those people will come home safe and the Bush administration is doing the right thing.

BLITZER : Thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador.

Just ahead, we'll speak with a U.S. Congressman and Naval Reserve officer for an inside look at the EP-3 surveillance aircraft. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Tonight on "The Leading Edge," a behind-the-scenes look at the Navy's top secret aircraft. Republican representative Mark Kirk of Illinois is a naval reserve intelligence officer and has flown in a EA-6b prowler, similar to the EP-3.

He joins us now live from Capitol Hill. Congressman, thank you very much for joining us. Take us inside that EP-3, during that half- hour after the incident, before it landed on Hainan island. What was the crew doing to sanitize the classified equipment and information?

REP. MARK KIRK (R), ILLINOIS: Well, Lieutenant Osborn is a hero tonight, and that of his crew. They would have been trained in emergency destruct procedures to protect the classified information and electronic intelligence collected by the aircraft. They would have zeroed out their computers, and they would have heaved as much of the classified documents as possible over the side in weighted bags.

BLITZER: How long would that normally take to get the job done to protect U.S. national security interests?

KIRK: It would take at least a couple of minutes. And of course, as we were briefed in the Armed Services Committee, that aircraft lost quite a lot of altitude quickly, and their standing orders are to protect their lives first, and I'm sure that they put on their life preservers, as they also carried out the auto-destruct sequence.

BLITZER: So, do you believe, based on what you know -- not only the inner workings of the plane, but what you have heard in these briefings -- that the crew did manage to completely disabled the equipment, so there's no great national security loss?

KIRK: I'm sure the crew carried as much of the auto-destruct as they could, but this is still an intelligence loss to the United States. Much of the equipment on the aircraft is bolted to the floor, it could not be heaved over the side, and so that equipment is now in Chinese hands.

BLITZER: So would you say this would represent a bonanza for China if, in fact, they keep that plane and go through all of the sensitive equipment?

KIRK: I think it would be outrageous if the Chinese do keep that aircraft. It's U.S. property that was in international airspace. But if they keep it, it will yield an intelligence benefit for the Chinese military.

BLITZER: How serious is the loss for the United States?

KIRK: It's a serious loss. The U.S. military will now have to do a vulnerability analysis to see what the Chinese could exploit from that aircraft, and will have to change our equipment and our procedures accordingly, which will be quite expensive.

BLITZER: Congressman Kirk, it was kind of you to join us, thank you very much.

KIRK: Thank you.

BLITZER: And just ahead: for one day at least, the bulls are back on Wall Street. We'll show you today's remarkable numbers.

And the Bush administration reverses course on a school lunch proposal after critics' beef. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. CNN has just learned the United States is temporarily closing three American embassies in South America. State Department says embassies in Ecuador, Paraguay and Uruguay will be closed until further notice because of, quote, "active security threats."

In other news tonight: strong earnings reports sent stocks surging on Wall Street today. The Dow Industrials soared 402 points to close at 9,918, its second largest point gain ever. The Nasdaq jumped 146 points, almost 9 percent, to end at 1,785. Much of the gains followed higher-then-expected earnings reports from Dell Computer and aluminum maker Alcoa.

Harsh words from the United States today regarding the Middle East conflict. State Department spokesman Richard Boucher calls Israel's plan to expand West Bank settlements provocative, saying it risks inflaming tensions with the Palestinians. The announcement to expand Jewish housing came hours after Israeli soldiers fired on a convoy of top Palestinian officials. Israel and the Palestinians are at odds over who fired first.

A combination of hydraulics system failure and software problems is being blamed for a deadly Osprey crash in December. The Marine Corps released its findings today, and acknowledged it was aware of one of the defects before the accident. The crash was one of two last year that led to a widespread investigation into the safety of the aircraft, which takes off like a helicopter and flies like a plane.

The Bush administration reversed course today, saying it will continue to test school beef for salmonella. Last week, the administration proposed dropping salmonella testing, opting instead to tighten meat processing standards. Critics accused the government of putting children at risk.

Remember, you can e-mail me your comments and read my daily on- line column by going to our WOLF BLITZER REPORTS Web page at cnn.com/wolf.

Please stay with CNN throughout the night. Among Larry King's guests at the top of the hour, Cokie Roberts and Sam Donaldson. Up next: Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by to tell us what she has -- Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN": Wolf, tonight we have two members of the House International Relation Committee, and we're going to talk about the Bush White House strategy in the standoff in China -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Greta Van Susteren, thank you very much. Sounds good.

Tomorrow night, I'll talk with former U.S. Defense secretary, William Cohen. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

"THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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