Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

The U.S./China Standoff

Aired April 06, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KATE SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tonight, a CNN Special Report: "The U.S./China Standoff." American diplomats meet again with spy plane crew members, and find them in "good health" and "fine spirits," as negotiations continue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we think we're making progress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: But China still blames the United States for the collision that led to the loss of a Chinese fighter jet, and is still demanding an apology.

We'll go live to our correspondents at the White House and in Beijing, and at Whidbey Island Naval Air Station in Washington State, where relatives are running out of yellow ribbon, as they wait for a homecoming.

And what goes on in Washington's inner circles at times like this? Wolf Blitzer speaks with former Defense Secretary William Cohen.

Good evening and welcome to our Special Report: "The U.S./China Standoff, Day Six." I'm Kate Snow reporting from Capitol Hill. Wolf Blitzer is off tonight.

The negotiations have been going around the clock. When it's nighttime in Beijing, it's daylight here in Washington, and negotiators in both cities are burning the midnight oil. As the talks between the United States and China continue, the outline of a possible compromise is beginning to emerge. But 24 American crew members remain held in China. So, for now, the standoff continues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUSH: We're working hard to bring them home through intensive discussions with the Chinese government. And we think we're make progress.

SNOW (voice-over): President Bush was up at dawn, talking with his national security adviser as diplomatic talks continued between capitals half a world apart. COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm encouraged because there has been movement, and because we are exchanging rather precise ideas as to how to bring this to a conclusion.

SNOW: Friday evening, the Chinese ambassador to the U.S. visited the State Department. U.S. officials wouldn't elaborate on what ideas were on the table, but there were clues: A key Republican senator said a letter was being drafted to establish how the two sides would review the accident itself.

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R-VA), ARMED SERVICES CHAIRMAN: I would say that this letter is an integral part -- I wouldn't characterize it as a deal --an integral part of the meeting of the minds of our two governments.

SNOW: On Chinese television, the pilot of a second Chinese fighter jet flying next to the American EP-3 blamed the U.S.

CHINESE FIGHTER PILOT (through translator): It was directly caused by the collision of the U.S. plane, veering at a wide angle toward our plane, making it impossible for our plane to avoid it.

SNOW: Privately, U.S. officials maintain the American crew did nothing wrong. That crew met alone with U.S. diplomats Friday, who reported back to President Bush.

BUSH: They are housed in officers' quarters and they are being treated well.

SNOW: Secretary Powell says U.S. diplomats expect to meet again with the crew on Saturday, and Pentagon officials are quietly working out logistical plans to bring the crew back to the United States if they are released.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

With the detained crew members said to be in good spirits, administration officials are also upbeat, amid signs the standoff may be moving toward a resolution.

We're joined now live by CNN senior White House correspondent John King. John, here on Capitol Hill there is talk from Senator Warner possibly having a letter or some kind of joint statement coming out of the U.S. and Chinese governments. What's the latest on that and what are the details?

JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: We're told, Kate, they're still working on the language tonight. After the Chinese ambassador visited the State Department, senior officials telling CNN, the diplomatic discussions expected to go on into the weekend. But some optimism that this could all be over by the weekend. As for the details, we do know in discussions they are hoping in this joint statement to have it say that it calls this collision unfortunate, or perhaps use the word "regret," but assigns no blame. The United States is not going to apologize. They're also talking about clearing the way for a joint investigation, not so much about what happened in this collision but to develop ways so that such an event would never happen again. We also know though, from our sources that there have been some hang-ups along the way. Among them: The Chinese demand for an end to such U.S. surveillance flights, and the Chinese also want language acknowledging that this U.S. plane entered into Chinese airspace and landed at that Chinese military base without permission.

Still some hang-ups over the language, but as Senator Warner said today, and administration officials later confirming, this language being reviewed at the highest level of the United States government, that means President Bush, and we assume he was correct in saying President Jiang Zemin will have to sign off as well -- Kate.

SNOW: John, the time frame on all this, you say, perhaps, over the weekend, does that mean that the White House remains engaged all weekend long?

KING: All weekend long. We expect the diplomacy to pick up again once it is daybreak in Beijing, the White House very much hoping it does not drag on into a second week. They believe the president on pretty good political footing here in the United States right now. But they do believe if this entered a second week, you would have more people in Congress calling these 24 crew members hostages. More pressure on the president to prove why he has been so optimistic in public about the diplomacy if you cannot show any public results that those crew members are on their way home.

SNOW: John King reporting from the White House, thank you.

As officials in Washington point to positive movement. Let's check in with CNN Beijing bureau chief, Rebecca MacKinnon.

Rebecca, there is a lot of talk of optimism here. Is there that kind of talk coming out of Beijing at this hour?

REBECCA MACKINNON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not publicly, Kate. The kind of talk one hears here is very different in public and in private. In private, I'm being told by diplomats here, the Chinese officials speaking to the American counterparts and trying to figure out a deal are being very pragmatic, talking about how a solution needs to be found.

However, in public, the rhetoric is quite different. Repeating the demand for an apology. Repeating the demand that the United States take full responsibility, that the United States plane was entirely in the wrong and caused the accident. One new development in the media this morning, the media is running a letter from the wife of the lost pilot Wang Wei to President George Bush. She accuses him of being apathetic and says: "You are too cowardly to voice an apology, and have been trying to shirk your responsibility repeatedly and defame my husband groundlessly."

So this is the kind of tone we're hearing in public, still very angry. In private, though, it's much more pragmatic -- Kate. SNOW: Rebecca, on that note of the possible apology that's been sought by the Chinese government. You heard John King talking about the outlines of a potential agreement that would not include a formal apology from the U.S. government. How would that play with the Chinese, any indication?

MACKINNON: Well, it really depends exactly how the agreement is worded. How it is translated in Chinese, how it's couched, the way in which the joint agreement is presented, the context around it. All of these things matter a great deal so that the Chinese government can at least show the Chinese people that it has been treated with respect, that the United States has, in some fashion, respected the feelings of the Chinese people who are very angry, not only about the loss of a pilot, but there's a great deal of anger here about the extent of spying that's going on.

So they need to have the kind of wording, the kind of context of this agreement that will enable a face-saving solution -- Kate.

SNOW: Rebecca MacKinnon in Beijing, thank you.

Yellow ribbons hang in the community around Washington state's Whidbey Island Naval Air Station. That's the home base of the Navy EP-3 and its crew. CNN's James Hattori is there and joins us now live -- James.

JAMES HATTORI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Kate. It is a time of optimism yet uncertainty for family members of the 24 crew members still in China. Within the past couple of hours Navy officials did brief family members in the Whidbey Island Naval Air Station, and there was, indeed, good news to report especially with the increased visits, both for today and one planned tomorrow, with the crew members and the embassy team in Hainan.

Also at the briefing this afternoon was Washington's governor, who was there to express his concern and support.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): Washington state Governor Gary Locke who visited briefly with about 10 family members of the U.S. flight crew detained in China says this is still a trying time for them.

GOV. GARY LOCKE (D), WASHINGTON: The family members are very tired. They're under a lot of stress. They very, very much appreciate the support that they've received from friends and family and acquaintances from college days all across the country.

HATTORI: Locke says the families are encouraged by reports that the EP-3 crew is being well-treated and by the apparent progress in negotiations to secure the release of their loved ones.

LOCKE: But everybody was encouraged. Everybody simply wants to be reunited with their family members, their loved ones.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HATTORI: And when that reunion occurs the family members here on Whidbey Island express a desire that it occur here on Whidbey Island. But, of course, Navy officials say that depends how long this drama plays out and, if need be, they would be transported to another location, perhaps somewhere in the Pacific.

Kate, one other note, the family members also conveyed an expression of condolence to the wife and child of Chinese pilot Wang Wei who, of course, was missing and is presumed, at this point, dead -- Kate.

SNOW: James, thank you.

Up next, what goes on behind the scenes when Washington's caught up in an international drama? Wolf Blitzer speaks with former Defense Secretary William Cohen.

And later, what do you do when your lumbering spy plane collides with a Chinese fighter and loses two of its engines? We'll explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SNOW: Welcome back. We'll continue our report on China in just a moment. But first, some breaking news. CNN has learned that in Los Angeles, Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian national, has been found guilty on nine terrorism-related counts after 10 hours of deliberations. Ressam was apprehended after trying to cross into the United States in December of 1999, shortly before millennium celebrations.

What goes on in the situation rooms and crisis centers when an international incident heats up? Wolf Blitzer sat down with former Defense Secretary William Cohen for the behind-the-scenes view.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (on camera): Secretary Cohen, take us behind the scenes. You were involved in crisis kinds of situations at the Pentagon. What's happening in the inner circles right now?

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, undoubtedly, there is a line of communication that is running pretty heavy right now between Washington and Beijing -- that U.S. diplomats are making contact with their counterparts. Secretary of State Powell has sent a message to his counterpart to try to calm the rhetoric, certainly to cool it, to try to have to some reserve in his expression, because he understands -- I think as does the president -- that you can escalate the rhetoric much easier than you can lower it.

BLITZER: When you were in China in July of 2000, you spoke at the Chinese National Defense University. Among other things you said this: "We want to create a relationship not of distrust, but one of dialogue, and above all, one that does not endanger, but enhances the security of all of our citizens, our allies and our friends in the region."

This relationship of trust doesn't seem to exist right now. It seems to have been badly shaken.

COHEN: Well, it's an incident like this that only reaffirms the need for us to have greater lines of communication with the Chinese, that -- when you can anticipate that, from time to time, you may have an event that will occur, an accident such as this one, it becomes all the more important that you establish personal relationships and a very strong line of dialogue with the Chinese government and the officials.

And so, this only reaffirms the need to be closer in terms of our communications, rather than more distant.

BLITZER: If the situation were reversed, if a Chinese spy plane were flying near U.S. airspace off Hawaii or off California, and there was an accident, and an American jet fighter, an American pilot were missing, and the plane was forced to make a landing on U.S. soil, would the U.S. be behaving any differently than the Chinese right now?

COHEN: Obviously, there would be high emotions, as there are in this particular case. But as Admiral Blair, who's the commander of our Pacific Command, indicated, the first thing we would do is make sure that the crew and the pilots were safe. If they needed treatment, they would receive it. And then they would be sent back to China itself. I think we would handle it quite differently.

BLITZER: You don't think the U.S. would want to, as part of the investigation into the accident, question members of the Chinese crew, in that kind of a hypothetical situation?

COHEN: I think the United States would want to abide by international law. And under those circumstances, we would certainly want to have an investigation or an exchange of information, as Secretary Powell has recommended. But we would abide by the rules of international law.

BLITZER: And you think the U.S. would have quickly let that plane leave the United States, that spy plane?

COHEN: I believe we would, yes.

BLITZER: Without going through it, looking for intelligence- gathering capabilities and doing what the Chinese presumably are doing right now?

COHEN: International law would require that the plane be returned, as well as the crew.

BLITZER: The 24 U.S. military personnel are stuck there, and the plane is stuck there. How long can this play out at that kind of level before the passion, the anger in this country explodes?

COHEN: It's hard to say at this point. Again, time is of the essence. And I would say that the quicker it's going to be resolved, the better for all concerned. We'll have to play it day by day, but one would hope that, within a matter of a few days, this could all be resolved. BLITZER: Wednesday night, I interviewed on this program Senator Shelby, the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. He spoke of those 24 U.S. military personnel not only as "hostages" -- the word he used -- but "prisoners," not detainees -- but he was using the word "prisoners." And others on Capitol Hill are beginning to use similar kind of language.

COHEN: Well, that would imply that we're in a state of hostilities with China, which we are not. This is an accident. And, as President Bush has said, let's see if we can resolve it before it turns into an international incident, and all of the complications and controversies that can generate.

I think it's in the interest of both of our countries to deal with this very quickly and professionally and diplomatically and not, again, escalate the rhetoric or try to characterize it in ways that become more difficult to resolve later on.

BLITZER: And, finally, the stakes: If this thing does drag on, what are the stakes for the United States if, in the end, the U.S. is forced to disengage with China?

COHEN: The consequences, I think, are evident in terms of trade relations, diplomatic relations and potentially military buildup and dealings with Taiwan, weapons to Taiwan, reactions on the part of the Chinese government. All of that can be very destabilizing to the entire region.

So there are vast consequences involved. And they can -- they need not evolve to that degree. I think that that's the reason why I say time is of the essence. What we ought to do is to resolve this and then get back to dealing on a very professional basis with the Chinese.

BLITZER: Secretary Cohen, thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: Just ahead: more on the U.S./China standoff. How do you land a plane that just has been in a collision? We'll look at what these pilots of that U.S. military surveillance plane had to deal with.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SNOW: Tonight on the "Leading Edge": What happened in the minutes after the collision off China? Imagine trying to land a U.S. Navy EP-3 safely, after an accident with a Chinese F-8 fighter in midair.

CNN national correspondent Frank Buckley looks at the process the plane's pilot may have used to land.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Photographs of the EP-3 show a damaged plane. And they tell a dramatic story of a pilot, Lieutenant Shane Osborn, attempting to fly a plane just involved in a midair collision: two engines damaged, loss of airspeed indicator and control over the wing flaps. The plane drops 8,000 feet as the pilot and crew attempt to regain control.

PATRICK RYAN, FMR. U.S. NAVY P-3 PILOT: There's probably not too many votes being taken. There's probably the pilot in command, who's acting very much like the pilot in command, and saying, "Let's do this, let's do that, let's do that. You help me with the controls and push on the right rudder," and, you know, that sort of thing.

BUCKLEY: Patrick Ryan is a retired U.S. Navy P-3 pilot, a former P-3 base commander in Hawaii. He says the pilot was likely attempting to regain control of the plane during the initial steep plunge.

RYAN: These are not normal failures, and the pilot must take whatever time is available to figure it out and come to some right conclusion. And I'm -- I'm in the process of giving this guy very high marks for airmanship.

BUCKLEY: As the pilot fought to save the plane, Pentagon officials say crew members behind the cockpit worked to destroy the secret data and equipment on board.

LT. GEN. TOM MCINERNEY, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Once the pilot gave the destruct order, they would go through a normal procedure, which they're briefed on, in 15-20 minutes, depending on their condition.

BUCKLEY: Officials here at the U.S. Pacific command in Hawaii are hopeful they'll soon be able to hear first-hand from the pilot on how the plane was brought in safely.

For now, however, they say they await the work of diplomats, as they engage in what they describe at the initial planning stages of the process that will bring the pilot and the crew back to U.S.

Frank Buckley, CNN, Honolulu, Hawaii.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SNOW: And just ahead, the Senate votes for a tax cut, but it's not quite the victory President Bush had hoped for. We'll have a live report.

And turbulent weather in the nation's midsection has many watching the sky tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SNOW: Welcome back. Looking at other top stories, the Senate voted today to approve a budget plan, but the tax cuts included weren't exactly what the president was looking for.

CNN Congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl joins me now live.

What happened today?

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, the Senate passed a tax cut of $1.2 trillion, plus maybe a little more for tax cuts this year. This was about $300 billion less than what the president wanted, and about $400 billion more than what Democrats wanted. So in the end, what you saw was the power of the moderates, especially John Breaux, the moderate Democrat of Louisiana, orchestrated a deal that was exactly what the moderates in both parties were looking for.

SNOW: This is the budget deal. Does this mean that we all get a tax cut? That American taxpayers get a tax cut this year -- effective this year?

KARL: Well, in this outline -- this is just a budget outline, they still have to get the specifics of the tax cut -- there was $85 billion worth of tax cuts for this year. The problem is, nobody's figured out exactly how to get that money back to you, back into your paychecks. So what they're looking at is possibly a rebate, that would go back to all taxpayers, maybe lowering the withholding on taxpayers. But, still, this is something that has to be worked out. This was just a budget outline. Now it goes back to the finance committees in both the House and Senate to figure out how, actually, to do this.

SNOW: A little bit more to go. Thanks, Jonathan Karl, Congressional correspondent, joining us on Capitol Hill.

Another sign the economy is slowing: the March jobless rate is 4.3 percent, that's up 1/10 of a percent from February. It is the highest level in 20 months. Businesses have cut 86,000 jobs since last month, and it's having an impact on Wall Street. The Dow dropped almost 127 points. The Nasdaq composite fell 64 points.

Strong storms hitting the central plains, leaving damage and bringing thunderstorms and tornado watches to several states, including Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas and Nebraska. Storm spotters have reported seeing funnel clouds in the Texas panhandle. The front pushing the severe weather is expected to continue to pose a threat for several more hours.

And please stay with CNN throughout the night. Merv Griffin is Larry King's guest at the top of the hour.

Up next, Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by to tell us what she has -- Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT": Kate, tonight we're going to talk about pilot fatigue. Last week we did a show on pilot fatigue. It stirred up a lot of controversy, so I have three commercial pilots who are going to join us tonight to tell us whether pilots are sleepy in the skies -- Kate.

SNOW: OK, thanks, Greta.

Wolf Blitzer will be back here Monday night. For now, thanks very much for watching. I'm Kate Snow on Capitol Hill.

"THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com