Skip to main content /transcript


Navy Crew Returns From China; Cincinnati Declares State of Emergency After Protests; Victims' Families Allowed to Watch McVeigh's Execution

Aired April 12, 2001 - 17:00   ET


ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington: this is INSIDE POLITICS with Judy Woodruff.

The return and the relief. Back on U.S. soil, 24 crew members begin to put the China standoff behind them.


GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know I speak for all Americans when I say, welcome home to our flight crew.


ANNOUNCER: Plus, Cincinnati in a state of emergency after three days of violent protests.


MAYOR CHARLES LUKEN, CINCINNATI, OHIO: The violence must stop and the violence will stop.


ANNOUNCER: And, many of those hit hardest by the Oklahoma City bombing have a wish fulfilled by the Bush administration.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks for joining us. We are standing by for an NAACP news conference in Cincinnati, where the police shooting of an unarmed black man has sparked violence in the streets. We'll carry that live when it happens.

But first, now that those 24 U.S. servicemen and women are safe in Hawaii, President Bush apparently feels less constrained in his comments about China. Less than two hours ago, Mr. Bush seemed to revert to a tougher line about the 11-day standoff between Washington and Beijing, as our Major Garrett reports.


MAJOR GARRETT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With the crew's jubilant return to U.S. shores, back in Washington, the president welcomed them home and sent a stern message to China. BUSH: The kind of incident that we have just been through does not advance a constructive relationship between our two countries.

GARRETT: The president said the U.S. plane flew legally and did nothing to cause the collision. Both nations will discuss the incident on April 18th.

BUSH: I will ask our United States representative to ask the tough questions about China's recent practice of challenging United States aircraft, operating legally in international airspace.

GARRETT: Senior officials say the standoff has taken a toll. The extent of damage won't be fully known until the U.S. secures the crippled surveillance plane still on Hainan Island.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: There is still a lot ahead of us. This meeting is ahead of us. And I think that we will look to see if we and the Chinese can find a way forward.

GARRETT: Free trade was supposed to smooth over other differences. China sends 80 billion in goods to the U.S., and the U.S. is eager to sell food, electronics, software and cars to China. Business leaders concede some damage has been done.

JERRY JASINOWSKI, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MANUFACTURERS: Well I don't think the Chinese did themselves any favors with the American public, or some members of the Congress by allowing this to go on as long as it did.

GARRETT: Mr. Bush also complained about Chinese sales of military equipment to U.S. adversaries. He did not mention Taiwan's request to buy sophisticated U.S. destroyers, a move China strongly opposes. A decision is due this month.

SEN. GEORGE ALLEN (R), VIRGINIA: This only I think fortifies those of us who think Taiwan has a just cause and a just reason to be fearful of adventuristic and aggressive activity from the People's Republic of China.


GARRETT: After reviewing his prepared remarks, in that welcome home statement, Mr. Bush personally added a line about the disagreements with China about the human rights and the religious freedom, placing those issues on the side with the issues like trade, Taiwan and weapons proliferation that his policy staff had pushed.

The bottom line from all this, White House advisers say, that Mr. Bush wants to make it clear to the Chinese that the standoff has made all of these issues a bit tougher to resolve -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Major, at this point, what does the White House expect from the meeting next week between U.S. and Chinese representatives?

GARRETT: Well, they expect the Chinese to raise a dead issue in their mind; that is, the issue of continued surveillance flights along the South Chinese coast. The administration has made it abundantly clear those flights will continue. For their part, the administration wants to push the Chinese on when and how to reach the crippled EP-3 surveillance plane, and the Chinese response, advisers say, will be very crucial in determining just how fruitful the next advance in the U.S.-China relations can actually be.

WOODRUFF: And Major, just quickly, do we know whether those surveillance flights will continue before that meeting next week?

GARRETT: The White House, to use a word that has been batted around a lot during this standoff, has been a bit opaque on that question. Clearly, they say the flights will continue. They may, in fact, decide not to continue or not to restart them until after this meeting, so it's not to at least intentionally ruffle any Chinese feathers. But no official announcement on that so far, Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Major Garrett at the White House.

In the wake of the U.S./China standoff, two Congressional committees have scheduled hearings on the relationship between the two countries. A Senate panel has invited Secretary of State Colin Powell and others to testify on May 1. A House panel plans to hear from experts on U.S./China relations on April 26.

Now, let's go to Hawaii, where the crew members released by China are being debriefed after receiving a hero's welcome earlier today. CNN's Mike Boettcher is in Honolulu -- Mike.

MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Judy, this whole day was called Operation: Valiant Returned; and it happened very early and quickly at about 6:30 in the morning Honolulu time. The door opened from the C-17 cargo aircraft and immediately, the 24 crew walked out, led by their captain and they were met by the military press and local politicians and a throng of about 300 people with homemade signs and welcoming them home.

Shortly after that, they were marched to the terminal, where they boarded buses and they will be taken -- were taken them to Pearl Harbor, where they will be debriefed for the next couple of days. Now upon the return, immediately, Lieutenant Shane Osborn, the captain of that ill-fated airplane, made a statement to the gathered crowd.


LT. SHANE OSBORN, MISSION COMMANDER: I'd like to thank everybody's support all over. We didn't hear much about it at first, but I'd like to thank the support for these past 12 days. It's -- it definitely helps. Now that we are back, we obviously have some business to take care of. We need to be debriefed and briefed on the situation. So, we can get home to our families for Easter.

With that note, I would like to start that process now so we can get home; and on behalf of Combat Reconnaissance Crew, I would like to thank you once again and God bless America.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOETTCHER: To fit that process in so they can return home Saturday morning, they will spend 12-14 hours a day of being debriefed by 12 separate debriefed teams at Pearl Harbor at the Pacific fleet headquarters there. Again, that will take two days.

They will go over their medical aspects, psychological, and also, there will be intelligence officers asking questions about how the accident occurred, were they able to destroy equipment on the plane? And what kind of questions did the Chinese ask them?

And Judy, we received some late color about their flight coming up from Hainan. On the way from Hainan to Guam, we are told they watched the movie, "Men Of Honor." And like the rest of us, had the choice of trout and chicken.

And on the flight from Guam to Honolulu, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld placed a call to the aircraft and spoke to Lieutenant Osborn, the commander of that aircraft -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Mike, tell us anything you can about how they were? How they seemed as they got off that plane and then the moments after?

BOETTCHER: Judy they seemed very, very healthy. We have seen these sorts of returns and other place like at Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany, and those are people held for a long period of time in bad circumstances, everywhere from the Middle East to Kosovo.

This was a different situation. They appeared in very good spirits. They had their uniforms on. They had the patches back on that were taken off while they were in the custody of the Chinese. Some had, not the American flag patch, but little flags stuck in -- to their shoulders of their uniforms. And they came down, shook hands very briskly and then when it was over, they seemed very willing to go and get this debrief over so they could go back to Whidbey Island on Saturday morning.

WOODRUFF: No doubt they are anxious to get it over. All right. Mike Boettcher in Honolulu, thanks.

An even more emotional homecoming is expected on Saturday, when the crew members arrive at the Whidbey Island Naval Air Station, where many of them are based. CNN's Brian Cabell is on Whidbey Island in Washington state -- Brian.

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Judy, we are now getting a clearer picture of what will happen on Saturday when they arrive home. Arrive here at about 4:00 on the base here behind me. They will come off the plane, greeted by their families who are being flown in all over the country, they'll be greeted by some Navy brass; also the governor of Washington and two U.S. senators from Washington and the Mayor of Oak Harbor will be here.

Then they will be escorted into a hangar and then the Navy band will play, there will be some speeches; and then, they will go home to be with their families. On that day Saturday, there will be no parade. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR PATTY COHEN, OAK HARBOR, WASHINGTON: The most important thing that wept to do with this visit is to get them home with their families and make them known that the service that they have provided by being out there in the defense of their country is appreciated.


CABELL: As one official said, they wanted to give them space, some time to be alone, to be private with their families. There will be a parade for them on April 28 -- that's in a couple weeks -- that will coincide, more or less, with another parade, the so-called Holiday Happening Festival here in Oak Harbor, and they will be, more or less, the grand marshals of that parade. And the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders will be here. They offered to come, and that was graciously accepted.

In the meantime, preparations are under way, though, for the town to welcome them back on Saturday. More ribbons are going up, more signs are going up. Merchants, we are told, are putting together, "Welcome back" baskets for all of the 24 crew members. And I think it's fair to say that they will all be treated like kings and queens over the next few weeks here in Oak Harbor. That's only appropriate, the mayor says, because of the very close relationship between the base and the town.

MAYOR PATTY COHEN, OAK HARBOR, WASHINGTON: This relationship that we have with Whidbey really defines this community. And we think it's something that you don't find anywhere else in the country.


CABELL: How big will the celebration be here on Saturday? Well, the Navy says they are preparing for 10,000 people. This is normally a closed base, it will opened up that afternoon. Ten thousand people. Keep in mind, the town only has about 20,000 residents.

Judy, back to you.

WOODRUFF: All right. Brian. If anybody deserves to be treated as kings and queens, they surely do. Thanks very much.

And we want to the remind you that CNN plans live coverage of the crew's return on Saturday to Whidbey Island Naval Air Station, near Seattle.

There is much more ahead on INSIDE POLITICS, including new efforts to end three days of violence in Cincinnati.


The only issue that we are focused on today is getting the criminal element off our streets.

WOODRUFF: The mayor says, enough is enough. We will tell you what the city is doing to try to restore calm.

Also ahead: survivors and victims' relatives learn if they will be allowed to watch the execution of Timothy McVeigh.

Plus, America's military personnel are free, and U.S. relations with China, more complex than ever. We're explore the economic and political realities later, on INSIDE POLITICS.


WOODRUFF: Attorney General John Ashcroft has spent the past several days in Oklahoma City, touring a memorial to the victims of the 1995 bombing, and meeting with bombing survivors and victims' families.

CNN's Gary Tuchman reports that Ashcroft announced his decision today on requests for a closed-circuit broadcast of next month's scheduled execution of Timothy McVeigh.


GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Carrie Lenz was 26 years old and six months pregnant when she died in the Oklahoma City bombing. Her mother was one of many who pushed for a chance to witness the execution.

DORIS JONES, MOTHER OF VICTIM: I think Carrie would be very pleased that I have taken a stand and I have been outspoken in her honor.

TUCHMAN: Doris Jones was one of those invited to tour the Oklahoma City National Memorial Center with Attorney General John Ashcroft on Tuesday. Later, she and about 100 other survivors and family members pleaded with Ashcroft to allow a closed-circuit feed of the execution so they could witness it.

And on Thursday morning, Ashcroft said it will be done. In addition, he says 10 survivors and relatives, two more than planned, can view it in person at the U.S. penitentiary in Indiana.

JOHN ASHCROFT, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: All witnesses will see Mr. McVeigh on the execution table, and they will be able to hear any final statement Mr. McVeigh makes.

TUCHMAN: Priscilla Salyers suffered serious injuries after tumbling five stories in the Murrah building after the explosion. She, too, toured the museum with the attorney general, and is pleased with the decision, but isn't yet sure if she will watch the Oklahoma City closed-circuit presentation.

PRISCILLA SALYERS, BOMBING SURVIVOR: I do not know if I will go into the room when the time comes. It's just something -- I won't know until that day what happens. I do -- but I will still be around my support, but I will have the option of actually going in or staying out.

TUCHMAN: A point of concern for many here: that Timothy McVeigh will use his last words to taunt family members watching.

ASHCROFT: Obviously, we have no way of anticipating what his last words will be.

SALYERS: I do feel good about having my strong support, the other families and survivors, and I know that they will be there with me. It's going to be a very hard day.


TUCHMAN: The exact location for the closed-circuit viewing here in Oklahoma City still hasn't been chosen, but it will have to be a large room. Approximately 250 people will be invited to be witnesses. The scheduled date of the execution: May 16, which means if everything goes as expected, Timothy McVeigh only has 34 days of life left.

Judy, back to you.

WOODRUFF: Gary, all the family members have been wanting to watch this? Only some of them, is that correct?

TUCHMAN: Right, what they are saying here in Oklahoma City is that 250 people have petitioned to be allowed to watch the execution. So as it stands right now, 10 of them will be picked by lottery to watch it in person in Terre Haute. The rest of them, if they want to, can watch it here on the closed-circuit presentation.

WOODRUFF: All right. Gary Tuchman in Oklahoma City, thanks.

Separately, President Bush today asked Attorney General Ashcroft to speak with Ohio officials about the continued violence in the streets of Cincinnati. A White House spokesman also said that two Justice Department officials have arrived in Cincinnati to serve as mediators between city officials and community leaders.

At least 86 people have been arrested in the violence that began after the fatal police shooting of an unarmed black man Saturday night. Since 1995, 15 black men have died in altercations with Cincinnati police, including four just since last November.

Today, the mayor declared a state of emergency, which includes a city-wide curfew.


MAYOR CHARLES LUKEN, CINCINNATI, OHIO: We don't like the fact that we have to declare a curfew in our city. We know the law-abiding citizens of Cincinnati, for 99.9 percent of our citizens, the curfew is completely unnecessary. We ask the citizens of our community to bear with us. We ask the citizens of our community to just give that one message today: It must stop, and it will stop.


WOODRUFF: CNN's Brian Palmer is standing by in Cincinnati, and he joins us now with the latest -- Brian? BRIAN PALMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Judy. We are waiting for a news conference and a community meeting, to be held by the NAACP Kweisi Mfume.

Earlier today, he met with Mayor Charlie Luken and the mother of Timothy Thomas, the 19-year-old man fatally shot by a Cincinnati police department officer early Saturday morning.

The meeting tonight is being held at a church in the Avondale section of the city, a part of town that was particularly hard hit by race riots in 1968, in the late '60s. Now, times have changed. Progress is made. This is not the late '60s. There is a black middle class in the city. There are black police officers on the police force. But some people are saying that the new disturbances reflect lingering problems between black and white in the city of Cincinnati.


PALMER (voice-over): Recent violence and vandalism after the fatal shooting of Timothy Thomas, a black man, by a white police officer, has reopened an old and deep wound in Cincinnati.

REV. DAMON LYNCH, NEW PROSPECT BAPTIST CHURCH: We used to be called a great place to raise your kids. Nobody says that anymore about Cincinnati. We're a small, little river town that's afraid to face it's real issues, and race is our main issue.

PALMER: It's an issue that resurfaces with regularity here, sometimes explosively, like when the Ku Klux Klan comes to town, as it has several times in the past decade, to erect its cross in fountain square, across from a Hanukkah Menorah. But the issue is most often black and white, and ignored in a city that is increasingly becoming African-American as whites head to the suburbs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The antagonism that exists is sometimes right below the surface. There's a lot of anger.

ALICIA REECE, CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: Unfortunately the only time we are serious about reacting is when an incident happens.

PALMER: It's hard to rewrite this history of misunderstanding between black and white, particularly given recent controversies surrounding actions by the Cincinnati Police Department in the black community, including accusations and lawsuits of racial profiling and a string of fatal shootings.

CHIEF THOMAS STREICHER, CINCINNATI POLICE: Certainly there's an issue here where a large number of African-American males have died in confrontations with police officers. It's of great concern to us here as an agency. It's also a great concern to the community here.

PALMER: I just lost IFB. So, we are -- we are still awaiting the arrival of Kweisi Mfume for this meeting. We are hoping that he will be showing up shortly for this meeting -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right. Brian Palmer reporting from Cincinnati, and as Brian was saying, there is going to be this NAACP news conference. Kweisi Mfume who is the president of the organization will be holding a news conference in just a few minutes.

Still to come: The volatile relations between the United Sates and China, and the reason leaders on both sides keep trying to make it work.

But first, a check of the day's other news, including new medical privacy rules on the way, after a little tweaking by the Bush Administration.


WOODRUFF: We will have more of the day's political news coming up, but now a look at some other top stories: following up on a story reported by CNN. Within the past half hour, a worker in Gainesville, Georgia, just north of Atlanta, plucked safely from a cell phone tower by the crew of a military helicopter.

The worker apparently collapsed at the top of the tower some 200 feet above the ground. The local fire department called in the military, which evacuated the worker to a hospital. The cause of his collapse is not yet known nor is his condition.

An exploding fuel tank is being blamed for a blast aboard a Thai Airways Boeing 737 parked at the Bangkok airport. It's the same kind of explosion that brought down TWA flight 800 off of New York. NTSB investigators tell CNN that air-conditioning units in both flights were running hot under near-empty fuel tanks. But they say it's too early to draw any conclusions. Boeing is now advising pilots to use outside air conditioners to cool planes waiting for long periods on the ground.

Pregnant and nursing women are being warned against eating certain types of fish because of possible mercury contamination. Mercury can damage the brains of developing babies. In January, the Food and Drug Administration advised pregnant women to avoid shark, swordfish, king mackerel and tilefish.

A new report by environmentalists and health advocates says those standards need to be tightened. They want gulf oysters, tuna, marlin and halibut added to the list.

The Bush administration says medical privacy rules will remain in effect with some minor changes. CNN correspondent Christy Feig has details.


CHRISTY FEIG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The privacy rules will be the first national protections ever to safeguard a patients' medical information.

TOMMY THOMPSON, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: The patient can feel, you know, really secure about knowing that if they go see the doctor, those records are private between that person and their doctor.

FEIG: Under the rules patients must give written consent before their medical information can be used by anyone other than their provider. Patients can review their records and suggest changes. If the information is misused, there are penalties.

These rules were originally introduced by President Clinton. The Bush administration will modify a few of the rules it thinks are too strict.

THOMPSON: If the rules were strictly enforced and interpreted, the way that some people think they are, the doctor would not be able to talk to the lab technician about your lab reports unless you signed the consent report to allow that to happen. And you don't want that to take place.

FEIG: Another rule that will probably be changed involves who can pick up prescriptions.

THOMPSON: You would have to sign a consent and you would not allow your husband or your wife to go pick it up, and that's going to cause a lot of confusion.

FEIG: Advocates for privacy protection are pleased even if some of the rules will be changed. Janlori Goldman of the Health Privacy Project at Georgetown University says one out of six people use less health care, because they're afraid their information will be misused.

JANLORI GOLDMAN, DIRECTOR, HEALTH PRIVACY PROJECT: People have been putting their own health care at risk to protect their privacy. And with these new regulations, we know that people will now have greater trust and confidence in our health care system.

FEIG: One medical ethicist says there's a drawback, these rules won't cover everyone.

ART CAPLAN, BIOETHICIST, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: The private sector isn't always covered by these rules. So if you work at a big company that's self-insured, they may choose to go along, but they don't have to go along.

FEIG (on camera): Experts say there may be some added benefits to these rules. They will help protect patients from genetic discrimination, and even protect doctors who voluntarily report medical errors.

Christy Feig, CNN, Washington.


WOODRUFF: The stock markets rebounded from morning losses to end the day with sizable gains. The Dow closed up more than 113 points. The Nasdaq also ended the day gaining in value, up 62 points. In just this past week, the Nasdaq has jumped more than 240 points, or almost 15 percent in value.

There's much more on the markets coming up on the MONEYLINE news hour. That's at 6:30 Eastern, right after INSIDE POLITICS.

When INSIDE POLITICS continues, we'll focus on U.S./China relations, from the history between the two countries to the impact of the spy plane standoff. We'll be right back.


WOODRUFF: As we reported earlier, President Bush took a tougher stand with China today, saying its decision to detain American crewmembers was, quote, "inconsistent" with a desire for positive relations. The president's comments may signal that rough diplomatic waters still lie ahead.

CNN's Mike Chinoy takes a closer look at the complex, sometimes turbulent, relationship between the two countries.


MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): First, there was Tiananmen Square and the wave of American outrage that was over China's bloody suppression of pro-democracy demonstrators. Then, a decade later, the U.S. bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, triggering a wave of Chinese anger against the United States. Now the spy plane crisis has spawned harsh feelings in both countries and called the future of Sino-American relations into question.

REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: In both China and the United States, the people feel very strongly against each other -- strong senses of nationalism in both countries.

CHINOY: And yet, ironically, the episode, with its compromise ending, has served to underscore how much both governments value their relationship. For the Bush administration, the crisis showed the importance of being able to work with China, whatever the campaign rhetoric about strategic competition. And for China's President Jiang Zemin, retreat from a demand for a full-fledged American apology indicated recognition of how important the United States is for China's future hopes of development.

JOSEPH CHENG, CITY UNIVERSITY OF HONG KONG: It is of paramount importance to those goals. Without a good Sino-American relationship, China cannot expect a peaceful international environment; China cannot expect ample assistance from the West in support of China's economic modernization and opening to the external world.

CHINOY: But this confrontation was different from earlier ones because as the diplomats talked it became clear that fundamental and competing security interests were at stake. Chinese armed forces, with their demand for an end to U.S. surveillance flights, trying to limit American power in the Pacific, the U.S. trying to monitor the development of China's military capabilities.

It's a clash that's likely to be played out on other issues in the coming months: Taiwan's request to buy advanced U.S. weapons systems, China's ambitions to play a dominant role in the South China Sea. (on camera): More than 20 years after the establishment of formal diplomatic ties, the U.S. and China are linked by a web of relationships so complex that a complete rupture would be extraordinarily painful for both sides; and yet the inevitable tensions between the world's sole superpower and its largest rising power almost guarantee that this confrontation won't be the last one.

Mike Chinoy, CNN, Hong Kong.


WOODRUFF: Joining us now with his "Reporter's Notebook": Bob Novak of the "Chicago Sun-Times."

Hello, Bob. What are you hearing in terms of reaction to the president's handling of this U.S.-China situation?

ROBERT NOVAK, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES": As to his -- excuse me -- as to his style, Judy, almost entirely positive. What I hear from people inside the administration and outside of it, is compliments for his calm and his coolness. There was no fist-shaking; he didn't raise his voice; he didn't do any histrionics. And that, I think, added to a calm and a coolness in the country. I think he did very well.

He may not be a very good war president, but he showed that he can be a very good peace president, or at least a diplomatic president.

WOODRUFF: Bob, what about among conservatives out there in the Republican Party? What do they...

NOVAK: Well, there are some misgivings that the U.S. was too soft, but the unspoken fear they have is a secret deal with the Chinese. You know, we didn't find out for years -- for decades, that there were some secret protocols on the ending of the Cuban missile crisis. Now, they worry very much that there's some deal that they're going to cut back on U.S. monitoring of the Chinese operations and their missiles. The people in the White House swear that's not the case; that the surveillance flights will continue. This issue will come up in the so-called maritime commission meeting coming up later this month. And I do find, among -- as we reported of the president -- among people in the administration they feel that there is going to be some coolness in relations with China now.

WOODRUFF: All right, turn the page in your notebook because I want to ask you about some politics. Some good news for Montana Democratic Senator Max Baucus.

NOVAK: He ought to just be the happiest guy in the world because former Governor Racicot, who is now a Republican -- former Republican governor now practicing law...

WOODRUFF: Very prominent during the recount.

NOVAK: Very prominent during the recount. He has made it very clear to everybody, and people have finally given up, he will not run against Senator Baucus. He wants to make a little bit of money to support his family before he goes back onto public life. He would be a heavy favorite against Senator Baucus. I don't know if Senator Baucus will be reelected anyway, but he has a real fighting chance; he wouldn't against Racicot.

WOODRUFF: Now, conversely, some bad news for Florida Governor Jeb Bush.

NOVAK: All the polls, Judy, on Governor Bush show he doesn't get up to 50 percent in the polls against any candidate -- Democrat running against him. The Democrats are far behind him, but he doesn't get to 50 percent; that's bad for an incumbent. And there also seems to be a clear democratic favorite; that's former Congressman Pete Peterson, who is still the U.S. ambassador to Vietnam. He was a Vietnam POW; very substantial person. A Peterson versus Jeb Bush fight -- I think Jeb Bush would be in for a terrific fight because he has faded in popularity somewhat.

WOODRUFF: What would the timetable be for Peterson and having to make a decision?

NOVAK: Oh, I think within the next six months.

WOODRUFF: All right, Arctic Wildlife Refuge -- Reserve plans for oil drilling there; now where does all that stand?

NOVAK: Well, they don't have the votes to pass it in the Senate as right now. The people in the administration tell me they're very gloomy about getting the votes. But they have one asset, and that's a senator from Alaska named Ted Stevens, who wants the drilling in the ANWR very much. But why would one senator make a difference? Because he is chairman of the Appropriations Committee and there are reports he is going to play some tough games on this because the people who vote against the ANWR drilling may lose some of their pork, some of their public works projects and some famous public works projects that maybe we'll talk about later, may be endangered by people who vote against the ANWR reserve.

WOODRUFF: But you're still hearing it's in trouble?

NOVAK: Oh, it doesn't have the votes right now.

WOODRUFF: All right; Bob Novak, thanks very much. Bring your notebook back any time.

Just ahead: the campaign begins again as two Democrats vie for the endorsement of the outgoing mayor and a term in city hall; the latest from Los Angeles when we return.


WOODRUFF: In Los Angeles, the two candidates in the mayoral runoff wasted no time asking outgoing mayor Richard Riordan for his endorsement. But the Republican mayor says it will be a few weeks before he announces his support, if he makes an endorsement at all. Former State Assembly Speaker Antonio Villaraigosa and city attorney James Hahn, both of them Democrats, have less than two months to pick up new support.

CNN's Charles Feldman takes a look at how the runoff campaign is shaping up.


CHARLES FELDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In this corner, L.A. city attorney James Hahn, with strong support among the city's African-American community.

JAMES HAHN, MAYORAL CANDIDATE: We are going to have a campaign that is going to make history in this city.

FELDMAN; And in this corner, Antonio Villaraigosa, with the backing of L.A.'s politically emerging Latino community could become the first Latino mayor of the city in more than a century.

ANTONIO VILLARAIGOSA, MAYORAL CANDIDATE: There's no campaign in this city that represents the breadth of the future of Los Angeles quite like this one.

FELDMAN: And the fight between the two Democrats in this non- partisan race for mayor of the nation's second-largest city could be brutal.

SHERRI BEBITCH JEFFE, POLITICAL ANALYST: This is going to be a knock-down, drag-out, free-for-all, going after the swing vote, which in this election is the moderate Anglo vote.

FELDMAN: While much has been made of coalition building in this race, there is also the very real potential for sharp divisions.

(on camera): You've got one candidate who has been called the surrogate black candidate -- Hahn -- with a strong African-American base, and another candidate who clearly has the Latino vote. Does this promise to be a pretty nasty campaign then? Is this going to break down along racial and ethnic lines?

HAROLD MEYERSON, EXECUTIVE EDITOR "L.A. WEEKLY": Well, the swing vote in this campaign therefore becomes the white vote, but I think certainly this is not going to be an easy moment for African- American/Latino relations.

JEFFE: What concerns me is the possibility that there may well be friction between Antonio Villaraigosa's Latino base and Jim Hahn's African-American base. And what concerns me even more is that if that friction isn't intense, isn't real, then that is what the media may focus on.

FELDMAN: Politicians all across the U.S. will be watching the mayoral race in L.A. very closely to see how strong the Latino voting block really is, and to try to figure out how that might impact their own elections, especially in states with growing Latino populations.

Charles Feldman, CNN, Los Angeles.


WOODRUFF: And to find out more about Tuesday's primary vote, Tuesday of this week, we turn to our own Bill Schneider out in Los Angeles.

Bill, hello. First of all, what was the most striking feature of the vote on Tuesday, would you say?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Judy, take a look at African-American voters here in Los Angeles and Latino voters. We've just heard something about the division, take a look at this. Jimmy Hahn showed a strong appeal to African-Americans. He's white. Why? Because his father's name, Kenneth Hahn, his father was a revered name, because he had a strong record of constituency service in the black community.

Villaraigosa dominated the Latino vote, even though he had to compete with another highly credible Latino politician. Does this portend polarization between blacks and Latinos here in Los Angeles? That -- you just heard Sherri Jeffe say, that's what a lot of people are worried about.

But you know, both candidates are liberal Democrats. There's no reason Villaraigosa should be a difficult candidate for blacks to accept, or Hahn a difficult candidate for Latinos to accept. The question is, will blacks feel they are being pushed aside by growing Latino power? One important figure: 14 percent of the voters on Tuesday in this city were black, 20 percent, an all-time high, were Latino.

WOODRUFF: So, Bill, is Villaraigosa running as the Latino candidate?

SCHNEIDER: Well, he -- he says -- I interviewed him yesterday here at CNN, and he has been careful not to pitch himself as the Latino power candidate. He wants to be unifying figure, and he's making a very conscious effort not to be polarizing.

When "The Los Angeles Times" exit poll asked voters if what -- the voters who said they were looking for a candidate who bring people and the city together, those who are looking for that quality, clearly favored, by a majority, Antonio Villaraigosa, the Latino candidate, over Jim Hahn, the Anglo candidate.

Villaraigosa did show considerable appeal to Jewish voters, white liberal voters, to gay voters, to union voters. In fact, more gay voters voted for Villaraigosa than for another candidate who was openly gay.

WOODRUFF: So given all that, Bill, who do you think the swing vote are here?

SCHNEIDER: Well, there's a lot of talk about whites, they are a still -- believe it or not -- they're still a majority here in Los Angeles, though only barely. They're the majority of the voters, not of the population. White liberals are a very particular constituency, they voted, as you can see here, for -- very heavily for Villaraigosa. They liked his message of inclusion. The swing voters are the white, moderate and conservative voters, most of whom didn't vote for either Hahn or Villaraigosa.

Hahn is generally seen as more moderate. But Villaraigosa, interestingly, got the endorsement of the moderate Democratic governor, Gray Davis. What's going to be important for that constituency is who gets the endorsement of the Republican candidate who was eliminated in the primary, Steve Soboroff, the independent, Joel Wachs, and of course, the all-important endorsement of mayor Riordan, because those voters tend to follow the lead of those more moderate and conservative politicians.

WOODRUFF: Finally, Bill, the issues -- what are the issue differences between these two candidates?

SCHNEIDER: That's a good question. I interviewed, as I said, Villaraigosa yesterday, and I asked him, what's the biggest issue difference between you and Jim Hahn? And he said, you know, there really aren't any big differences. They're both fairly liberal Democrats.

They're going to have seven, six, eight debates, something like that. What are they going to debate about? Well, I asked the same question today of Jim Hahn. And he said, clearly, he says that Villaraigosa is to the left of me. He intends to make an issue of public safety. He thinks that he, Hahn, is a stronger candidate for law and order.

Another issue difference that is likely to emerge is labor. Antonio Villaraigosa came up as a labor organizer, and a lot of those moderate and conservative voters are worried that if Villaraigosa gets elected, labor unions will have a lot of power in Los Angeles, perhaps too much.

Then, there are some questions about Villaraigosa's judgment. He supported energy deregulation, a big issue in most of California, though, interestingly, not in the city of Los Angeles, which has its own power supply. But a wild card in the election: Villaraigosa, six years ago, wrote a letter, asking President Clinton to review the case of Carlos Vignali Jr., the young man who was convicted of drug trafficking, whom Clinton eventually commuted his sentence for. Now, that hangs over this campaign. It could become a very big issue. Believe me, there are going to be questions raised about Villaraigosa's judgment.

When I asked some voters what they saw as the difference between the candidates, they said, well, Villaraigosa has passion. He's a real passionate candidate, he excites people. You know, that can get a lot of voters out to vote for him, but a passionate candidate can also create a backlash with a lot of voters voting against him, because they're concerned about what he is going to do as mayor -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: All right, Bill Schneider. And we're all passionate about you. Thanks very much.

SCHNEIDER: Thank you.

WOODRUFF: The latest Democrat to launch a congressional campaign in Maryland is a member of the Kennedy family. Mark Shriver, son of Sargent and Eunice Shriver, and nephew of President John F. Kennedy, announced his campaign for Congress today. Shriver is seeking the seat currently held by Republican Constance Morella. Morella has not indicated whether she would run for re-election, although her spokesperson says that she will be running for, quote, "something in 2002." Shriver's cousin is Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, Maryland's lieutenant governor.

Just ahead, a Hollywood star heads south to talk movies, politics and history in Cuba.


WOODRUFF: Actor Kevin Costner is in Cuba this week, trying to bridge the political divide with film. Costner traveled to Cuba on a cultural exchange license, to show the movie "13 Days," which dramatizes the Cuban missile crisis, to a Cuban audience.

As Lucia Newman reports from Havana, even Cuban leader, Fidel Castro, was in the audience.


LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a movie premiere like few ever seen in Cuba, presented by one of the best known American movie stars, even here.

KEVIN COSTNER, ACTOR: Movies have moments we'll never forget for the rest of our lives.

NEWMAN: A moment unforgettable for most Cubans: The Cuban missile crisis, a moment in history that brought the world to the brink of a nuclear war. Kevin Costner presented his new film, "13 Days" to President Castro who, he said, watched with great interest.

COSTNER: It was an experience of a lifetime to sit only three or four feet away from him and watch him relive an experience that he experienced as a very young man. To watch his counterpart, a young man, John F. Kennedy, and see a dramatization of how he suffered, himself.

NEWMAN: Many ordinary Cubans who attended the first public screening were also intrigued, but for a different reason.

"We've always heard of our version of what happened," says this student. "And to see it treated from the American point of view, I think, is very important."

(on camera): Some things have changed since the Cuban missile crisis. The fact that all these people are coming in to see the Hollywood version of what happened, the fact that Kevin Costner is even here, but politically, not all that much has changed in the last 40 years between the United States and Cuba...

(voice-over): ... which is part of the reason why those who made the film decided to bring it to Cuba, in the hope that it can contribute to better understanding between two countries that are still living the Cold War.

Lucia Newman, CNN, Havana.


WOODRUFF: People like movie stars everywhere.

Straight ahead on INSIDE POLITICS: an update on the arrival of U.S. military personnel in Hawaii. And the sensitive issues left unresolved in the agreement that brought them home.


WOODRUFF: A snapshot from Hawaii, where the U.S. crew released by China is a big step closer to home.

President Bush seems to walk a less careful line on China, now that the crew is free.

And: on a day of tribute to Thomas Jefferson's legacy, historians revisit his love life.

ANNOUNCER: From Washington, this is INSIDE POLITICS with Judy Woodruff.


After their ordeals in the air and on the ground in China, those U.S. crew members, who arrived in Hawaii today, are understandably eager to complete their journey home. But first, they must take care of some final business: two days of debriefing, although, as CNN's Mike Boettcher explains, there was some time to celebrate, as they landed on the tarmac in Honolulu.


MIKE BOETTCHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They survived a midair collision, a difficult emergency landing, and 12 days in Chinese custody. It was the long way home. But home it was for the 24 Navy crew men and women who were met by military brass, local politicians, and a throng of well-wishers at Hickam Air Force Base near Honolulu.

The spy plane's pilot, Lieutenant Shane Osborne, who wrestled his crippled aircraft safely to a landing on Hainan island, spoke for his crew.

OSBORNE: I'd like to thank everybody's support all over. We didn't hear much about it at first, but I'd like to thank the support for these past 12 days; it definitely helps.

BOETTCHER: U.S. Pacific Fleet Commander Thomas Fargo congratulated the entire crew.

THOMAS FARGO, COMMANDER, PACIFIC FLEET: We're lucky to have men and women like you protecting the interests of our nation. So, it's wonderful for me to have the pleasure to say both welcome back and well done.

BOETTCHER: The Navy fliers looked unhurt and healthy. And after the brief...

welcoming ceremony marched quickly to buses to begin two days of intense debriefing sessions at Hickam Air Force Base. They will be asked precisely how the collision with the Chinese fighter jet occurred, and how much sensitive equipment they were able to destroy before the Chinese boarded the aircraft.

The crew, all smiles in this photograph taken shortly after a charter jet carried them from China, will also be asked about their 11 days in Chinese custody.

(on camera): The welcome home in Hawaii was relatively low-key, that's because in two days, when debriefings are over, the crew will be flown to home base, Whidbey Island Naval Air Station in Washington state, where family, friends and thousands of well-wishers will welcome them, marking the official end to a mission that became an international incident.

Mike Boettcher, CNN, Hickam Air Force Base, Hawaii.


WOODRUFF: Like many Americans, President Bush watched the crew members' arrival in Hawaii on television. Later, he placed a phone call to welcome them home. Mr. Bush also spoke publicly about their return, and the U.S. relationship with China. CNN's Major Garrett joins us from the White House -- Major.

MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Judy, just as the president and the vice president joined millions of Americans in watching that jubilant return of the U.S. crew to Hickam Air Force Base, the White House also knew many eyes would be on the president when he made his first statements about the incident once the crew made it to U.S. soil.

And the president made it very clear that during this standoff that China had made the wrong move.


GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: During the last 11 days the U.S. and China have confronted strong emotions. Deeply held and often conflicting convictions and profoundly different points of view. China's decisions to prevent the return of our crew for 11 days is inconsistent with the kind of relationship we have both said we wish to have.


GARRETT: Now the president almost went through a checklist of issues he wanted to bring to the Chinese attention at this particular moment, first saying, according to all evidence that U.S. spy plane was doing wrong, flying in international airspace. He also said he expected the U.S. officials representing the U.S. government at it's meeting with the Chinese on April 18 to ask what the president described as tough questions about Chinese harassment of U.S. surveillance planes operating in international airspace.

The president also said that he remains concerned about issues dividing the two countries such as human rights, religious freedom, weapons proliferation and other issues. The clear signal, Judy, from the White House is, this episode has made all of those issues much more difficult to resolve -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Major, what is the next -- the next phase of this? And by that I mean, when Congress takes up, whether it's trade, whether it's sales to Taiwan, what is it the administration is bracing for?

GARRETT: Well April really is a, sort of, action-packed month dealing with this entire episode. You can circle on your calendar April 18. That's when the U.S. and China will meet. The Chinese will bring to that meeting an agenda talking about surveillance flights. The president made clear those flights are going to continue.

The U.S. is going to bring to that meeting a strong desire to regain custody of that crippled surveillance aircraft, and advisers have said the Chinese attitude toward that U.S. request will be crucial in plotting the future of relations between the two governments. But also Congress returns from a two-week Easter and Passover recess after next week. Congress will come back to town with a different attitude about China.

There possibly will have to be another vote in Congress on reaffirming China's permanent normal trade relations status. How Congress deals with that will be a key issue. The president also must decide, some time this month, whether or not to approve Taiwan's request for four sophisticated U.S. destroyers, equipped with the most sophisticated radar the U.S. has to offer, something China objects to, and has said it would consider a threat to itself. All of those issues will come to a head in the coming weeks.

WOODRUFF: All right. Major Garrett at the White House. At the Pentagon, officials are trying to get a better picture of the air collision that led to the standoff with China, based on the information they are now getting from the U.S. crew.

Let's check in with our military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE,CNN CORRESPONDENT: Judy, with the Navy pilot Lieutenant Shane Osborn and his crew now free, the U.S. is no longer pulling punches about who's to blame. You heard President Bush said today that the U.S. EP-3 did nothing to cause the accident.

Based on initial accounts of the aircrew, Pentagon sources saying that the EP-3 surveillance plane was flying straight and level on autopilot, not turning, when the Chinese F-8 fighter approached rapidly from a 45 degree angle. It passed just under the left wing of the prop plane, and then pulled up its nose to slow down, causing its tail to hit the EP-3's left outboard propeller.

The Chinese jet then broke up as debris hit the EP-3's nose cone, which, in turn, knocked out the inboard engine on the right wing. The badly crippled plane dipped to the left, and did an almost 90-degree roll, dropping 5,000 to 8,000 feet and turning nearly upside down before the pilot, Lieutenant Shane Osborn, regained control.

Sources also tell CNN that Osborn considered ordering his crew to bail out, and then, after righting the plane, thought of ditching it at sea. Finally, he decided he had a good chance of landing at the Lingshui Chinese Military Base that was only 40-50 miles away. And there is new evidence tonight of how close Chinese fighters come to surveillance flights.

These photographs, obtained by CNN, are believed, by Pentagon officials, to have been taken by the just released crew, and e-mailed home a few days before April 1 accident. The photos include one, that, based on the jet ID number, appears to be Wang Wei, the Chinese pilot who was killed in the latest collision.

With China still holding the $100 million surveillance plane, sources say that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is sitting on far more damning evidence, including the photos and video tape that document hair-raising stunts by the hot-dogging Chinese pilots including, sources tell CNN, a video in which the nose of a Chinese fighter can be seen between the propellers as it flies dangerously close to an EP-3 on patrol -- Judy.

WOODRUFF: Jamie, what can you tell us about Pentagon plans or plans being on hold to resume these surveillance flights near China?

MCINTYRE: Well, sources confirm to CNN that there have been no surveillance flights since the incident. And U.S. military officials are anxious to resume those flights and start intelligence gathering again. The pentagon won't comment on this at all publicly. And apparently behind the scenes, there is still a question about whether the U.S. wants to resume the flights, which China sees as provocative, while it's still negotiating for the release of the $100 million plane.

WOODRUFF: And also while that meeting with the Chinese is still a week away. All right, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Thanks very much.

And now let's focus on one of the big question marks in the aftermath of the standoff between Washington and Beijing. Will the Bush Administration green-light arms sales to Taiwan despite opposition by China?

CNN's David Ensor has the latest on the pending decision.


DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In less than two weeks, the Bush Administration is scheduled to tell Taiwan whether it can buy sophisticated Aegis destroyers and missile defense systems. Waiting time: eight years, Kidd-class destroyers: available now, Diesel electric submarines and antisub surveillance aircraft. All are on the longest military shopping list Taiwan has ever presented.

Administration officials say though some of the specifics, like whether to include Aegis and Patriot missile batteries, are not yet decided, it will be a robust military package.

DAVID SHAMBAUGH, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY: China's not going to like this package. China has drawn lines in the sand this year over the package, and we are going to cross those lines. It's clear. Beijing is really going to be unhappy, and that's going to come right into the atmosphere, the sour atmosphere, in Beijing coming out of this spy plane incident.

QIAN QICHEN, CHINESE VICE PREMIER (through translator): What I have said is that should such arms sales go forward, the repercussions would be very serious.

ENSOR: The president and his advisers stress, they will make their decision on arms for Taiwan based solely on its military needs because of the Chinese buildup along the Taiwan straits. But Beijing, by its actions against the plane and crew has assured more arms for the Taiwanese, according to its critics in Congress.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I think that this incident relates to their not wanting any reconnaissance flights to show their buildup in any respect.

REP: DANA ROHRABACHER (R) CALIFORNIA: They have all but assured the fact that the United States of America is going to provide Taiwan the weapons it needs to defend itself and deter attack from the mainland of China. They have only themselves to blame.

ENSOR (on camera): The crisis over the plane and its crew forced the new Bush Administration and the Chinese leadership to make some difficult compromises. Now they will need all the diplomatic skills they can muster to get through the Taiwan arms decision and some other minefields that are coming up. David Ensor, CNN, Washington.


WOODRUFF: For many Americans, the latest tensions with China have evoked memories of the not so distant past, when confrontation with communist countries drove U.S. international policy.

CNN's Bruce Morton has been thinking about then and now.


BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A confrontation with China: Does that mean back to the Cold War with a new chief enemy? Probably not. The United States and the Soviet Union were superpowers, with, between them, enough nuclear bombs to destroy the planet. Their alliances, NATO and the Warsaw Pact, rubbed elbows in Eastern Europe for almost half a century. Incidents there: the Berlin Wall, Soviet troops marching into Hungary or Czechoslovakia. Incidents elsewhere, like the Cuban Missile Crisis, could have triggered World War III.

Now? The United States and China don't share Europe or a border. They are not military equals. China is a nuclear power, but not on the scale of the United States. It has a huge army, but cannot command air and sea space as the U.S. can.

The two countries do have points of conflict. Some in the U.S. remember and resent the Chinese occupation of Tibet. U.S. arms for Taiwan are an issue, though the U.S. officially subscribes to the idea that there is one China. Some Americans remember and resent the Chinese army's attack on Chinese students in Tiananmen square in 1989. But there are common interests, too.

BUSH: It's important for the Chinese to recognize that our relationship is going to change from one of strategic partner to one of competitor, but competitors can find areas of agreement, such as in trade.

MORTON: The U.S. has encouraged China to move into the modern world, join the World Trade Organization. And in trade, China had a trade surplus with the U.S. last year of more than $83 billion, serious money for a poor country. China wants the Olympics in 2008. Feuding with the West could threaten that goal.

Once, Mao Tse-tung ruled China. Later, Deng Xiaoping did, announcing, "to be rich is glorious." Now, reports suggest no one person is in charge. The military may want to flex its muscles. Others may prefer trade and more consumer goods. And President Bush seems to see a more modest role for the United States, less hands-on everywhere, than Bill Clinton did.

BUSH: We will have a foreign policy that is humble. We will have a foreign policy that is present, but humble.

MORTON: The world is more diverse now. Not just free world and communist, but China and Russia and Iran and Iraq and more for an American president to watch and deal with.

Still, this new president, surely, can now heave his first international sigh of relief.

Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.


WOODRUFF: There is much more ahead on INSIDE POLITICS, including a White House ceremony honoring the memory of America's third president.


BUSH: No wonder America sees itself in Thomas Jefferson. He was what we are: marked with faults, inspired by strong ideals.


WOODRUFF: When we return, Thomas Jefferson's legacy to the nation and to his own family.


WOODRUFF: As both a slave owner and the man who penned the phrase "all men are created equal," Thomas Jefferson's personal contradictions are well known. And DNA test results that showed Jefferson may have fathered a child by a slave only added to his controversial legacy.

Today at the White House, President Bush hosted descendants of Jefferson from all parts of the family.

Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.


JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is the kind of recognition descendants of Sally Hemings have sought for years: inclusion in a White House ceremony honoring Thomas Jefferson. They believe, along with many historians, that their forbearers were the offspring of Jefferson and his slave, a tangible reflection of the third president's contradictory legacy.

BUSH: The same Thomas Jefferson who wrote the original ordinance banning slavery in Northwest territories lived on the labor of slaves. The same Jefferson who denied racial equality spoke ringing words of equal rights.

MESERVE: But as the president spoke, a new study was unveiled disputing the Hemings-Jefferson connection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None of this is close to being proven.

MESERVE: This group of scholars concludes that Jefferson probably was not the father to any of Hemings' children. DNA tests have proven that some member of the Jefferson family fathered Hemings' youngest child, Eston, but not necessarily Thomas Jefferson. These historians say Jefferson's correspondence indicates Hemings was only a minor figure in his life, that the historical record shows no special treatment of Hemings or her children.

Hemings did conceive her children during times Jefferson was at Monticello, but this study says Jefferson relatives would have come to visit when he was home, and any one of them could explain the Jeffersonian physical characteristics in Hemings' children. They say that until recently the oral history was that "an uncle" of Jefferson's was Eston's father, and they speculate that might have been a reference to Jefferson's brother Randolph.

PROF. ROBERT TURNER, JEFFERSON-HEMINGS COMMISSION: We found several letters that refer to Randolph Jefferson, as "Uncle Randolph is coming to visit, Uncle Randolph is here." So Randolph Jefferson was the one person that we known of that was routinely known as Uncle at Monticello.

MESERVE: Some Jefferson descendants were relieved at the findings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How can the same man, who wrote all of these great American ideals, at the same time quietly be having an affair with someone who has a child? That makes him a liar, fraud, and a hypocrite to many people.

MESERVE: But one Hemings descendant says the report only shows that some people will never accept that Jefferson had black children. "I am who I am," she said, "he is my grandfather, six generations back."

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.


WOODRUFF: Still to come on INSIDE POLITICS: a second look at the fast moving events of the past 24 hours.


WOODRUFF: These are live pictures at a Baptist church in Cincinnati. Cincinnati, the scene over the last four days of protests set off after police shot a black man said to be unarmed. A 19-year- old man had been sought on 14 different misdemeanor warrants. He was shot last Saturday, died. This was the 15th time a black crime suspect was killed by Cincinnati police since 1995. A period during which there were no police killings of white suspects. Today this town meeting in Cincinnati sponsored by the NAACP, and we are expecting to hear any moment now from NAACP President Kweisi Mfume.

Let's listen in.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS) UNDERGROUND: ... the situation we got here in Cincinnati because we can't walk the street. The same people we call to protect us is (sic) killing us. This is ridiculous. Killing unarmed citizens is not acceptable. That is absolutely not acceptable, and something has to be done about it right now! Not later on, right now changes have to be made.

I'm underground; my name is underground. Right now I want to bring to you Mr. Mfume who is going to try his help -- try his best to help us make the changes necessary for us all to live to be old people without being gunned down by some trigger-happy police officers.

So thank you for hearing me, and to all my young friends downtown who've been fighting to be heard, you can relax. Changes are about to be made in your favor. Chill.

Mr. Mfume.


KWEISI MFUME, NAACP PRESIDENT: (OFF-MIKE) it's good to see you because I know you've been out there. I want to thank you and a lot of nameless and faceless black people like you whose hair is gray, whose wrinkles are recessed, whose cataracts are more pronounced, but loved us in your time and in your generation more than we loved ourselves. And for all of you who made your bodies bridges that some of us could run across 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years to get here, we say thank you out of a great deal of respect for our homies.


MFUME: I want to thank Ms. Davis (ph). I want to thank the young people who head up our youth and college divisions who have worked with her and worked with our regional director and our field director. I want to thank those of you who don't know me so that as we get to the know each other, we understand one real thing, and that is that we are family. Oh yes, we are. We are family, and when it's all said and done; when there are no cameras and no lights and nowhere else to run, we have each other because we are family.


MFUME: I came here to Cincinnati not for form or fashion, but because I'm sick and tired of going to teenage funerals and consoling teenage mothers. I'm tired of burying people. I'm tired of getting old and watch people never live at all. And I'm tired of watching us, in some respects, get caught up in what they want us to get caught up in instead of building. We were builders. We were fighters. And we still are.

When I got here today, the first thing I did was to go to visit with Mr. and Mrs. Leisure (ph). We're in pain, but we don't know their pain. They've got a boy to bury on Saturday; 19 years of age. And as I held on to them and held on to his baby, who's less than a year, who can't walk or talk, who doesn't understand this moment, who will never know what his father was or could have been, I recognize we are family. And we have an obligation, and we must be frank, and we must be honest.

Now, there are some people who may not like what I say because they will say that I'm a trouble maker. There are some who will say, well, I don't know about him, I don't trust him, why is he here? I'm here because there's Cincinnatis in every state of this union. Every state of this union.


MFUME: And when I looked at that baby today and watched his mother's eyes well up with tears, I recognize this pain I have is nothing compared to theirs.

And so we left there; we went to meet with the mayor. The mayor had not met with Mr. Mrs. Leisure.

WOODRUFF: We're listening to the president of the NAACP, Kweisi Mfume, in Cincinnati at a town meeting among a large group of mostly African-Americans. That city racked by protest over the last four days in the aftermath of police killing -- shooting of a 19-year-old black, unarmed man, 19 years old. This was the 15th shooting of a black man since 1995.

More on this story tonight on "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN," that's at 8:00 Eastern here on CNN.

I'm Judy Woodruff; thanks for joining us.



4:30pm ET, 4/16

Back to the top