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CNN Talkback Live

What Should be Done About Racial Profiling?

Aired April 12, 2001 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR CHARLES LUKEN, CINCINNATI, OHIO: Gunfire went off like you might hear in Beirut. It is dangerous and it is getting more dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBIE BATTISTA, HOST: Rioting, looting, arson and vandalism rake Cincinnati, Ohio after a young black man is shot by a white officer during a weekend arrest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUKEN: The violence on our streets is uncontrolled and it runs rampant.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to be heard, you know. It's been -- thing's been going on too long.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BATTISTA: Nineteen-year-old Timothy Thomas was the fifth black man killed by local police since September.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUKEN: There is a very legitimate and real problem with race relations.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shot me here, shot me here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm standing on a public street. I ain't threatened nobody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I tried to stop them. That didn't work. And here come about 20 more of them. They started beating the truck and beating me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BATTISTA: Wednesday night, a policeman is shot. A state of emergency is declared along with a curfew, and the National Guard could be called in. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUKEN: The only issue that we are focused on today is getting the criminal element off our streets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BATTISTA: But what about tomorrow? What's happening in Cincinnati? And is it happening anywhere else?

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. Between U.S.-China negotiations and the release of the U.S. servicemen and women, the explosive events unfolding in Cincinnati have been somewhat eclipsed in the news this week. But it is a story that we want to explore today -- it's a big story -- and see if we can't uncover what's behind the violence.

Let's get the latest developments now from Cincinnati from Cincinnati's Brian Palmer -- Brian.

BRIAN PALMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Bobbie. We have two major developments actually. The Ohio State Police, troopers from the state police will arrive tonight in Cincinnati at about 6:00 to augment the officers from the Cincinnati Police Department. We've learned that from the chief of police, who you'll be speaking to shortly.

The second major development, at 5:00 p.m., there'll be a press conference at a local church held by the leader of the national NAACP, Kweisi Mfume. There will be a community meeting following that -- Bobbie.

BATTISTA: So everything is quiet now, Brian, I presume?

PALMER: Everything is indeed quiet at this moment, Bobbie.

BATTISTA: What have you witnessed in the last 24, 48 hours?

PALMER: Well, we've witnessed a lot of interesting things. We talked to a number of people on the street. What struck me the most is I seem to see sort of a generational divide. You have community leaders a bit older all reaching out to the folks on the street, but communicating to them is sometimes a little bit difficult because they sometimes speak a different language -- Bobbie.

BATTISTA: All right, Brian, thanks very much for joining us. I'm sure we'll be getting updates from you throughout the day.

With us now is Cincinnati police chief Thomas Streicher.

Chief, thanks very much for joining us. I know this is a busy day for you. We heard the mayor say earlier on this morning that there is a legitimate race relations problem in Cincinnati. Would you also admit that there is a race relations problem between the Cincinnati Police Department and the minority population there? THOMAS STREICHER, CINCINNATI POLICE CHIEF: Well, Bobbie, I don't think that you would confine it simply to a police public matter here. I think this is something that's true throughout America at this time. There are some problems between the races in America, and it stretches much beyond police community relations. I think it's something that is encompassed by all the different aspects of society right now, the perception that there's some unfair and perhaps unimpartial (sic) -- if that's the correct term to use -- treatment of some citizens here. And we certainly believe that it's a matter that's beyond the scope of law enforcement.

BATTISTA: In the last five months, though, or since September, there have been five deaths of young black men. Have all of those been cleared or proven to be justified, or is there a pattern here?

STREICHER: Well, they're not -- not all of them are finished with being under investigation at this point. In one of the incidents that occurred back in November of last year, we have two officers that are currently under indictment for that situation. There was another incident in November that was exonerated.

In fact, there was a police officer shot in the forehead and also in the hand in that one. Return fire did result in the death of the suspect. This case we're most familiar with here from this past weekend is under investigation between our agency and also the Hammond County prosecutor's office. In fact, we met with him as recently as yesterday and turned over our entire investigative file. And the legality of it is going to be determined by the prosecutor's office.

BATTISTA: So is there anything you can tell us about this most recent case or not?

STREICHER: Well, we've concluded the investigation. We certainly believe that we've determined exactly what occurred in that investigation. I'm quite confident that we have. I would just simply have to say because of the legality of the circumstances and on the advice of the prosecutor's office, in every single homicide investigation, we're advised not to speak to the actual elements of the crime or actually what occurred, and we have to defer to the prosecutor for that.

BATTISTA: Have most of these incidents since September involved white police officers and black victims?

STREICHER: Actually, I think in the first one that I spoke of, the two officers or actually five officers involved in the one in November, two officers were indicted in that. They were mixed officers, some black, some white. And the offense where the police officer was shot in the forehead and in the hand, that police officer was white. The police officer that returned fire was a black officer in that instance. In this instance that we had this past weekend was a white officer and a black suspect in that incident.

BATTISTA: Why do you think that this last incident that happened over the weekend caused the city to go over the edge, if you will? STREICHER: Well, I think again there's a lot of other frustrations that emanate from society; certainly there's been a lot of attention focused on the deaths of citizens here. We've certainly been concerned about them. We've done a number of proactive things over the past couple of years trying to improve relations and trying to enhance our training and our response to incidents as they occur here. This is a very, very unfortunate incident, quite a reaction from the city here. And at this point, we're trying to get things back under control.

BATTISTA: Let me bring Alicia Reese into the conversation, also. She's a member of Cincinnati's city council.

Ms. Reese, your city lately has been described as a ticking time bomb. What brought this situation to this point in your mind?

ALICIA REESE, CINCINNATI CITY COUNCIL: Well I think there's a combination of things. I mean, it's been an issue that's been festering over the last five years with incidents involving African- American males and our Cincinnati police department. We have tried on several occasions to come with since the citizen review panel. We've also have come with the racial profiling legislation of the last two weeks. But I think now what we need is bold, new leadership as it relates to our safety department, where we can become proactive and not reactionary after an incident occurs. And I think that that's one of the things that's very important.

I do want to say that our police and our fire department have been working around the clock to be responsive to this issue and what's going on. I think what's important right now is we have to have safety and calm, but at the same time, to my colleagues and to people of the business community and others in the community -- community leaders, we have to also work toward resolution and work toward the some action so that we can move the city forward toward the healing process once we have everything under control.

BATTISTA: Well, to do that, you have to definitely identify the problem. Now what do you think the core of the problem is there?

REESE: Well I think there are a couple of things. One, I told you a proactive plan as it relates to police community relations, that's number one and foremost.

BATTISTA: How would you describe that? How would you describe your police community relations there?

REESE: Well I think that we have a -- we have to improve on it. I think what has happened in the last couple of days is evident, that we've got to improve on it. And we can't just work on it after we have an incident, but we've got to work on it before we have an incident. And I've tried to introduce several initiatives that allow us to be proactive.

BATTISTA: Let me take some quick questions from the audience if we can.

Yvonne (ph), go ahead.

YVONNE: Hi. I was just wondering, I mean, this is obviously something to think for -- to plan for the future. But I was just curious, what kind of alternative research you're doing in alternative methods for law enforcement compared to Europe, for example, and different methods that they use that might be applicable?

BATTISTA: Let me ask the captain how receptive the police department is to, you know, finding a solution to this situation and what steps that you would take in order to try to improve your community relations?

STREICHER: Well, I think the first steps we have to take here, obviously, is to try to resolve what's going on now here in the city. We have to regain some control over the city and we have to get some cooler heads to prevail here. There's long-term solutions here. And again, as I said before, I think it would be highly inappropriate to simply combine this to something saying it was a problem between the police and the African-American community. That is not consistent with what's going on through America at this time. It's not consistent of what's going on in here in the city.

There's a tremendous number of concerns that are alive here as they are throughout America. There are a tremendous number of systems that are failing in America. And as a result of those systems failing in America, uncomfortable things happen. When those uncomfortable things occur, that's when the police are called in. We're not called in when everything is going well in other systems. We're not called in when other things are going great here. We're called in when things are going bad and when things are going wrong. We deal in controversy. That's what our job is, is to come in and try to address situations when something else has failed. And, unfortunately, we wind up at center of the controversy and dealing with someone else's controversy.

And I'm not trying to simplify matters, but I'm trying to tell you what that fact is, and that you just can't simply say, "Is this is a police-community problem?" It's a much larger issue. Am I interested in the alternative resolution? Absolutely. I'm interested in hearing from anybody who can help us to improve the organization here and to improve life here.

BATTISTA: Let me ask you this, because racial profiling, there are charges that that is at the core of this. And let me ask the chief this. That, as a rule, do you think the police officers do engage or need to engage in racial profiling?

STREICHER: Well, I guess one thing I'd have to ask you to do is to define for me what racial profiling is, because typically, we find that if you ask 10 people what racial profiling is, you'll get 10, maybe even 15 different definitions of it.

For the police division, it's a legalistic matter and it's simply -- and it's unethical. In fact, it's illegal to base any type of enforcement action on a person based simply -- or based solely on race, on gender, on sexual preference, on any aspect. What there has to be for us is a legitimate law enforcement concern for us to engage in some type of contact with the citizen. It's not simply a thing of going out and looking at: Are you a certain color, are you a certain gender, and then saying, "I'm going to do something." If that occurs, it's wrong.

But we know that the issue of racial profiling -- and people throw that term out -- has a myriad of different definitions. And I think that's one of the things that leads to the confusion of saying exactly what you mean by racial profiling.

BATTISTA: Captain Streicher, if I can have you stand by and Councilwoman Reese, also, if you would. We have to cut away for just a moment or so. The president is going to have some remarks upcoming here about the return of those U.S. Navy men -- Joie.

(INTERRUPTED BY CNN COVERAGE OF A LIVE EVENT)

ANNOUNCER: Police have arrested 66 people since the protests began. Charges include disorderly conduct, criminal rioting, obstruction, felony assault, theft and breaking and entering.

BATTISTA: Welcome back. We are talking about the situation in Cincinnati, a city that's been under siege, if you will, the last couple of days, due to racial tension there between the police and the community.

Congresswoman Reese, where do you go from here, assuming you get the city back under control here in the next 24 hours or so? The criticism has been that these talks have happened before and it stays in the news and it stays in everybody's minds for a couple of days and then it goes away, and everybody moves on with their lives and forgets about it, and it just starts to simmer again. Where do you go from here?

REESE: Well, I think that you're absolutely right about talk. And that's what has built over the last five years. There's frustration on both sides: the African-American community, the Caucasian community. And originally, it started out as nonviolent protests. And I've heard from people out here on the street. I've talked to community leaders. I've talked to young people who are against the lawlessness, want the lawlessness to stop. However, they want us to take action. They want us to take a bold step in leadership.

We better now be about a pro-active police-community relations plan. That's one that I've been speaking of for a long time. I asked -- you know, one of the ideas is the chief to get out and talk to the people in the community, form relationships. I'm a supporter of community policing, which I think this is so important. Secondly, I think we've got to take a bold step administratively to make sure that police-community relations is not just coming from the community but it's coming from the administration, enhance the backing. And I certainly think a national search to bring in someone who has experience with the sensitivity and dealing with the diversity that we need in the city. But first, we've got to have calm, and second, we've got to the move toward action. And the people have to be confident that the action that we take is action that we're going to practice every day and not just when an incident occurs. We have to recognize that there are legitimate frustrations that are not just police-community relations but deal with housing issues, affordable housing. There's been several issues and fights on the council floor to fight for affordable housing in the city. I've been a leader of that. Secondly, we have to recognize youth employment opportunities. We had cut out summer youth employment. Now we have an incident, we want to talk about the youth employment. These are issues that we have to deal with on an everyday basis, and we've got to be proactive at this.

BATTISTA: In the meantime, Captain Streicher, do you feel like you have your city under control?

STREICHER: At this point, the entire city is extremely stable. One of the things that we're seeing, Bobbie, is that in the daytime, even if there are people out who are expressing themselves in some sort of anger or frustration, it's a very common, very well-controlled crowd that perhaps may want to be a little bit antagonistic but they've not been a problem. They have not resorted to any violence.

Our troubles are coming when nightfall gets here under the cover of darkness. The crowd, the complexity of the crowd completely changes when we get a group of people out here that are simply bent on lawlessness, destruction and a tremendous amount of violence. And those are the people that we hear that we really need to address. So nighttime is the most difficult time for us right now. And I want to express to you the overwhelming majority of citizens here in the city of Cincinnati both in the white and the black communities here are assisting us in a tremendous manner, and they are conducting themselves in a very good manner. And this is a very small number of people who are committing the lawlessness.

BATTISTA: Well, we hope that you have a peaceful night. And we thank you both very much for joining us, Alicia Reese, a councilwoman there in Cincinnati, and Police Chief Thomas Streicher. We appreciate both of you taking the time.

STREICHER: My pleasure.

REESE: Thank you.

STREICHER: My pleasure.

BATTISTA: A couple of e-mails that we've got here before we go to break.

Laurie in Scottsdale, Arizona says: "I am the sister-in-law of the officer who was involved in the shooting on Saturday morning. All I want to say is that this officer has dedicated his life to protecting everyone. He is an honorable and respectable man."

Jennifer in Cincinnati says: "This incident has escalated to this point because there is a level of racism in Cincinnati that is the norm. It is accepted, tolerated, and expected. As a Caucasian female and a mother, it sickens me that every day I have to teach my child that the racism we experience here, both subtle and overt, is not the norm."

I have Nikki (ph) on the phone from Cincinnati. I'll take her when we come back. We're going to take a break first. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: All right, we're back. And Nikki (ph) has been holding on the phone from Cincinnati.

Nikki (ph), go ahead.

CALLER: Yes, ma'am. I have two different views of what's going on here. And on one hand, I'm sympathetic to the police officers who deal with these people on a nightly basis. But on the other hand, I feel like far too many people are being killed. They're pulling the triggers before they even know if they have weapons on them. This boy had no violent crimes in his past. It saddened me to think that his child is going to grow up without a father.

I have three kids, and I'm scared to take them to certain parts of the area. They can't even go to soccer practice because of everything that's going on here. It's scary. I wish that people would realize that they're hurting each other with the rioting. They're not helping the city with all the violence.

BATTISTA: All right, Nikki (ph). Thanks very much. Appreciate your call.

Joining us now is Lincoln Ware, a radio talk show host on WDBZ in Cincinnati.

In New York with us is Gerald Kelly, a former narcotics detective in the New York City Police Department. He is the author of the book, "Honor for Sale: The Darkest Chapter in the History of New York's Finest."

Also with us, Kenneth Meeks. He is the author of the book, "Driving While Black: What to Do if You are the Victim of Racial Profiling." Welcome to all of you.

Lincoln, let me start with you. I have read more than one quote in my research today from both black and white citizens of Cincinnati saying that they are afraid for young black men. It is not a good time for young black men to be walking the streets in Cincinnati.

Do you agree?

LINCOLN WARE, WDBZ RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, with the record, you have to agree. I mean, you've got 15 deaths in the past six years and it seems like there's no letup. When it will it end? I guess people counseled -- our political leaders, no one stepped up to the plate to say: "Let's end this now," until it's too late. Now I think it's too late, and everybody wants to step up and find solutions. And what are the solutions? We need instant solutions. We don't need something that's going to take effect three, four, five, or six years down the road. People want satisfaction now. They haven't gotten it up to now, so they decided to take it to the streets.

And I guess it's too late. It's just like if you cheat on your wife, you cheat on her over and over again, and then you still come back, begging. Finally, she gets fed up and she leaves. And I think the citizens -- the black citizens of Cincinnati are probably to that point now. They're fed up and they say they're not taking it anymore. They want changes. But not only do they want changes, they want changes now!

BATTISTA: Well, Kenneth, Cincinnati isn't the only place where this sort of thing is going on or has gone on in the past. What is happening in this country where there has been such a breakdown of trust between young black men and police officers in particular?

KENNETH MEEKS, AUTHOR, "DRIVING WHILE BLACK": Racial profiling is happening across the country. What's going on in Cincinnati isn't necessarily isolated to Cincinnati. It's going on all over the place. I think every one of us knows at least one person in our community who has been victimized by police brutality. And not necessarily shot, but you know, harassed, stopped, inconvenienced -- racially profiled.

BATTISTA: Gerald, as a former police officer, you do defend racial profiling. Why is that? You think it's a good tool.

GERALD KELLY, FMR. NYPD NARCOTICS DETECTIVE: Nice to talk to you again, Bobbie. How are you?

BATTISTA: Good, thanks.

KELLY: It is a good tool because racial profiling at the police department is really a criminal profiling. We can't just put 20 men in a certain area, in a good area, and bad area. Police officers and police departments use their resources into these high-crime areas. They know where the crime is being committed, and people -- we're putting our resources in there.

We're told to go out there and get the bad guys, and we go out there and get the bad guys. And then we're told it's racial profiling. It isn't. You know, Bobbie, how I talk about racial profiling is -- that captain gave a good explanation. What is it? Nobody quite knows.

But, I, routinely -- if I saw a white person when I was in narcotics going into a building at 126th street in the middle of Harlem, I racial profiled him and said: "I think he's copping drugs." Is that bad to do? Was I supposed to say: "Well, maybe he's going up there at 3:00 in the morning just for a tea." No. That's what racial profiling is to me, and criminal profiling.

BATTISTA: Well, racial profiling aside, though, what we're been seeing lately is more like the incident that happened this weekend in Cincinnati. I mean, what justification is there for a police officer to shoot and kill -- it's always the same thing. "I thought he was going for a gun," before the gun -- if there is one, and there usually isn't -- is even drawn.

KELLY: I couldn't agree with you more. I does lead (sic) to be very suspicious. But i don't know and I can't just say that officer in Cincinnati deliberately did that this morning. I am quite certain he didn't get up this morning and say, I'm going to kill myself an African-American.

He -- it's the only job in the world where you go out in the afternoon to go to work, you get in a hostile situation and they're shooting at night and more than likely you could be going to jail the next day. I watched with interest as you asked Captain Streicher there about those situations for the last police officers that were shooting. I mean, it makes me (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to think, oh, two were indicted and one was black and white.

Bobbie, if we had an all-African-American police department in Cincinnati, as Mr. Ware pointed out, 15 shootings -- if it was all African-American, in six years there still would've been 15 shootings. It is essentially not about a black and white issue as much as it against -- as a good and a bad situation. It's good against the bad guys out there, and that's what it all comes down to.

BATTISTA: Lincoln, is there any empathy at all for police officers and the fact they put their lives on the line every day?

WARE: Well, the fact is there have been black officers who have shot victims, but the incidents are very few. It seems like a black officer can relate more to a black suspect. They can talk to them better; they just relate better, and you very seldom find a black officer shooting a suspect, whether he's black or white. You just don't see it that often; very seldom...

KELLY: Yes, because Lincoln, there are so many more white officers out there in these areas than there are black officers.

WARE: No, no; that is not it. You can't -- don't blame it on numbers; it's not numbers, it's how you relate to a person if you know -- xenophobia is what the white officers suffer from...

KELLY: Well, do you think we should have all-black police officers in those black communities? Is that what you're saying?

WARE: No, I don't think -- I think you need to train the white officers. They need to know who their -- who the citizens are; they need to take some kind of courses (sic), some type of training to learn the culture...

KELLY: We know the color -- it's obvious we're putting white officers -- many of them -- in these areas. We know what we're looking at. We're not going up to grab you or many of the citizens or most of them, but there are a certain segment -- I think you would you probably agree with me -- that are very hostile and very tough, and there's a lot of bad guys and Crips and Bloods and Latin Kings that permeate these communities. And that's what the police officer is looking for.

WARE: Right; and black officers are able to deal with those people fine...

KELLY: How do you know that?

WARE: The attitude makes the difference. It's the attitude.

BATTISTA: Let me get the audience in on this here quickly, because I have been ignoring them a bit.

Al (ph), go ahead -- your thoughts.

AL: Sure. I'm listening to this, and I'm slightly disturbed by the comment by the comment by the gentleman in New York. The issue is not how you look. I have been on Stanford's campus with a suit on and been stopped by two police officers. It's all about leadership and how you look at someone who approaches you. And I think we've got a country, now, of hostages -- being minorities -- and especially with Bush coming into office right now I think there's a whole attitude of having more and more anger toward minorities and less compassion and less unity. That's how I feel.

KELLY: I disagree with you.

BATTISTA: Go ahead Gerald.

KELLY: No, I do; I disagree with the gentleman. I hate to think that we're getting President Bush, after a month in office, into a conversation here because of a policy here. That wasn't what killed this gentleman last night.

A man went to work last night; he thought the guy probably was doing something and he took action. He didn't want that shoot him. The last thing he wanted to do was shoot him. And he knew one minute after he shot him that he was in major trouble and more than likely he could be going to jail for this. We have U.S. attorneys in those cities that look over the police department's shoulder every day. They will make sure that justice is done here.

BATTISTA: I've got to take a break. We'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Ten states in the past two years have passed laws meant to stem racial profiling. Thirteen other states are considering similar legislation. In Oklahoma, police officers can be criminally charged for the practice.

E-mails: Vanessa (ph) in Cincinnati says, "There are both African-American men and Caucasian men that get into trouble and run from police to avoid apprehension. The difference in the two situations is the price they have to pay for running." Tess (ph) in Jackson, Wyoming says: "I spent my whole life in Cincinnati and only recently moved away. I think the issue of racial tensions is being blown out of proportion. Also, the media has failed to point out the inordinate number of officers killed and wounded over the past few years while on duty."

Let me go to the audience -- Shelly (ph).

SHELLY: Hi. I'm originally from Ohio, and I think it's very sad and tragic for everyone involved. I think this stems from a lot of fear and threatening and people need to learn to communicate much better. And the councilwoman did an excellent job. Racial profiling, I feel, is very, very sad and wrong because it's pointing out an ethnic group. And as far as the National Guard coming in, I think that, you know, for safety reasons -- but I still think that everybody needs to learn how to communicate and stop overreacting to situations when they're feeling threatened.

BATTISTA: And let me take Vera (ph) on the phone from Illinois.

CALLER: Hello?

BATTISTA: Vera, are you there?

CALLER: Yes.

BATTISTA: Go ahead.

CALLER: I'm the mother of a young man who was murdered by Chicago police in a routine traffic stop, they claim. My son was two weeks from graduating from Northwestern University and he was on his way home for the weekend to spend with his family. He wasn't speeding, he wasn't doing anything wrong, he just had tinted windows, when the officer decided to follow him.

Well my son, not doing anything wrong, didn't know that they were after him. They bumped him off the road, broke out his car window, opened the door and, while his hands were up and in clear sight they told him to got ought of the F-ing car. He said, why do I have to get out of the car and the police officer shot him and killed him.

Now his son has to grow up with no father -- a father that he's never seen and will never know all because he was a black man driving home.

BATTISTA: You know, Vera, you -- bless your heart.

Kenneth, what do you do if you're stopped?

MEEKS: You know, I think there are several things that we need do when we're stopped by police officers. I think that we need to be cognizant of where we are, take mental note of where we are, but be aware of our behavior because what we do, it's the difference between life and death.

You know, I think white people could take for granted that, when they're stopped by police officers and they're asked to produce ID, they can reach and unbuckle their seat belt. But when it comes to us, you know, we have to tell the officers with our hands on the steering wheel: "Listen, officer, I have to unbuckle my seat belt first, do you mind?" You know, doing things like that, step by step. So, and that's just one thing.

BATTISTA: Kenneth, let me ask you this. I just got another e- mail from Cincinnati. Stephanie from there says: "One of the problems here is that the police get no support and no respect, not from those that they protect, and certainly not from the city council. I do not believe last weekend's shooting was intentional, but brutality inflicted by those rioting, however, was nothing but deliberate."

Is she correct? Do you think the police get no respect?

WARE: I think I can answer that one. Would you mind if I came in on this one?

MEEKS: Be my guest.

WARE: Just a couple months ago, there was a white guy who let police on high-speed chase through the streets of Cincinnati, putting lives in danger. This guy, he hops out of the car, he runs into the darkness of the night. The police catch him. He ended up living -- they just beat him -- they beat the hell of out of him, but he is still alive. The same situation with this guy, there were a few traffic warrants on him, he runs from the police, he is black, but he ends up dead. So, respect -- who gets the respect?

KELLY: Well, I think that you are really making a lot of supposition there, Lincoln. Lincoln, things happen, there have been white men that have been killed, and there have been black men...

WARE: But this only happens to black men!

KELLY: Well, it doesn't only happen to black men. But still, to answer that lady's communication, she is right on target. Police have very little support among many of our politicians here. And the...

(CROSSTALK)

WARE: The politicians are afraid of the police because they need the FOP endorsement! The politicians are afraid of the police because they cut the endorsement from the FOP, especially when you have a strong FOP like we have here in Cincinnati!

KELLY: Well, I don't know what you have in Cincinnati, but I think...

WARE: It's strong.

KELLY: ... the politicians are afraid of also of a lot of minority communities also, and their power to vote also. But the problem is -- what the gentleman here with me just said about keeping his hands on the steering wheel, this is true, and many times police officers do approach black people a little differently. But let's face it, Bobbie, most police officers in the last 20 years, or 50 years have been murdered also by black men.

BATTISTA: We will take a break and be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Lincoln, let me ask you this: what do you think is going to happen in your town tonight?

WARE: Well, hopefully the violence will end. I think with the state of emergency curfew from 8:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m., hopefully that will curb some of the vandalism, the looting -- and we had some sporadic gunfire last night, and that what worries me the most, the sporadic gunfire. I even saw a guy -- young teens driving down the street, firing their weapons in the car -- up in the air last night. So hopefully, we can keep those teens off the streets, and it will be much safer place.

How long will this have to take place? I don't know, but hopefully it will end soon, and we can get down to business and straighten this situation out here in Cincinnati.

BATTISTA: Yeah, we hope so for your sake too. Lincoln, thanks very much for joining us, we appreciate it. Gerald Kelly and Kenneth Meeks, we thank both of you for joining us as well today.

And we're out of time, so we will see you again tomorrow at 3:00 p.m. Remember, it's our Friday free-for-all, so you won't want to miss that.

We've been reading your e-mail suggestions for the Friday free- for-all, by the way, so see if your ideas make the air. Join us tomorrow.

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