Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Secretary of Defense Faults China for Collision With Spy Plane
Aired April 13, 2001 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the Pentagon's top official comes out swinging with dramatic video and strong words about U.S. surveillance flights near China.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The F-8 pilot clearly put at risk the lives of 24 Americans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll get the latest from the Pentagon, and from Hawaii, where the U.S. crew is being debriefed. A lull in the violence, but not in the tension as another city struggles with a police shooting and racial anger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I worry that some of our communities will get scarred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: We'll get a live report from Cincinnati, where another curfew has just begun.
And how did President Bush handle his first international crisis? We'll ask "TIME" magazine's Michael Weisskopf and Clarence Page of "The Chicago Tribune."
Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Washington.
After holding his tongue almost for two weeks, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today directly blamed the Chinese fighter pilot for causing the collision of a U.S. surveillance plane. He showed up in the Pentagon briefing room with some dramatic video to back up his allegation.
CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre has our top story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "EP-3 PLANE VIDEOTAPE")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, we got a BID on him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he going out?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the videotape taken by an U.S. crew January 24th, a Chinese pilot, identified by sources as Wang Wei, the same pilot who died in the collision, is seen cutting so close in front of an EP-3 surveillance aircraft his jet wash creates turbulence that rocks the slow-moving prop plane.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "EP-3 PLANE VIDEOTAPE")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How far are we?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One's right there -- he's going to pass in front of us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa! He is going right in front of us. Same altitude. All right! Wow, we got bumped!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Felt that one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got thumped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld used the tape in a show-and-tell to document what he called the kind of dangerous flying that prompted a formal complaint to China last December.
RUMSFELD: Look at the plane's mushy behavior. You can see he's flying at a very slow speed for a fighter aircraft.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "EP-3 PLANE VIDEOTAPE")
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, this guy's having a little bit of problems. He's squirrelly, not real steady. He's having a hard time maintaining this airspeed. He's got his flaps down a little bit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUMSFELD: Those planes are not designed to fly at 250 knots.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh yeah, he's having problems.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld insisted the U.S. plane was doing nothing wrong, flying straight and level on autopilot, and never turned, as the Chinese claimed. RUMSFELD: For 12 days, one side of the story has been presented. It seemed to me that with the crew safely back in the United States, that it was time to set out factually what actually took place.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon says there have been an increasing number of intercepts by Chinese jets of U.S. planes, 44 since December. And they have grown increasingly aggressive, six times coming within 30 feet, and two times within 10 feet.
Contrary to initial reports, Rumsfeld said the crew destroyed only a major portion, not all of the EP-3's secrets, which may account for why the Chinese haven't given the plane back.
RUMSFELD: Well, there's no question in my mind but that one of the things holding it up is they're accessing that aircraft to see what they can learn.
MCINTYRE (on camera): And that's the biggest reason the U.S. wants its plane back. While it may never fly again, it could help U.S. intelligence experts figure out exactly what secrets were lost to China.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: In Hawaii, the crew is undergoing its second and final day of questioning in hopes of helping the military determine what sensitive information may have been compromised. Joining us now live from Pearl Harbor with more on that and other military matters, CNN national correspondent Martin Savidge.
Marty, first of all, what do we know so far about how these debriefings are going?
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that the debriefings are going very, very well. They are intensive debriefing. They're not interrogations. They are conducted in conference rooms, usually talking to each crew member individually, and there are 12 teams of debriefers working through all 24 crew members.
Each debriefing session lasts for about an hour at a time, then the crew members are given a break after being asked those specific questions. Usually during those breaks, we are told, most of the crew members quickly run to the phone and begin getting back in touch with their family members back on the mainland.
They went until 9 o'clock last night and expected to go until 10 o'clock tonight. Of course, this is expected the final day as the crew hopes to be at the airport, Hickam Air Force Base tomorrow morning.
They're going to hold a news conference at 6:45 a.m. local time. After that, they then board a plane and head off to Whidbey Island, go back home, and most important, get back to their families.
They did have access to religious services today. This, of course, being Good Friday -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Marty, shifting gears on another military story breaking in Hawaii right now, that three-admiral panel coming up with recommendations what to do with the crew of the USS Greeneville submarine, which, of course, had that disastrous collision with a Japanese fishing vessel not long ago.
What are you hearing about that recommendation?
SAVIDGE: At this hour, Wolf, we know that the three admirals that make up the Greenville's court of inquiry are meeting with Admiral Thomas B. Fargo. He's the man that originally called for the court of inquiry. What they're doing is handing over their findings and recommendations.
Now, sources close to the court of inquiry have said that these three admirals have been deeply divided over trying to come up over some sort of consensus. Should there be a court martial or courts martial for Commander Scott Waddle and the other officers that were focused on the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of the court of inquiry.
Right now, what is being discussed is the possibility of an admiral's mast. That is a nonjudicial punishment, something less severe than a court martial. And it could mete out a punishment of something like 30 days of house arrest, docking of pay for Commander Waddle, and also the prospect of just a letter of admonishment that would go into his file.
Either way, Commander Waddle is expected to retire later this summer -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Martin Savidge in Hawaii, thank you very much.
And crew members of that EP-3 will be reunited with their families tomorrow at Whidbey Island in Washington state, where preparations are well under way and welcome home signs are, of course, coming up.
Stay with CNN for live coverage of their homecoming beginning tomorrow Saturday at 6:00 p.m. Eastern, 3:00 Pacific.
And there's another major story we're following tonight, this one in the nation's heartland. Only minutes ago, another dusk-to-dawn curfew went into effect in racially tense Cincinnati, where the police chief says officials will decide on a day-to-day basis whether that curfew should be extended.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back please. Step back.
BLITZER (voice-over): The overnight curfew helped stem the violence on Cincinnati's streets. Dozens were arrested, but Thursday night was relatively calm after three previous nights of violent protests.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time, time for things to settle down and cool off.
BLITZER: Still, anger brews.
ROBERT RICHARDSON, STUDENT: The youth in this city are sick and tired of the police harassing us, killing us, undeservingly.
BLITZER: The protests began after the fatal shooting of 19-year- old Timothy Thomas, an unarmed black man, by a white police officer, as he fled down an alley. He was the 15th African-American man since 1995 to be killed in a confrontation with Cincinnati police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The same people we call to protect us is killing us. This is ridiculous. Killing unarmed citizens is not acceptable.
BLITZER: Police deny claims of racial profiling or excessive use of force, countering that between 10 and 15 of those shot were armed.
KEITH FANGMAN, FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE: Our police officers are not some band of rogue Nazis roaming Cincinnati, hunting down and killing black men. That is inflammatory, it's racist, and it's wrong. It's absolutely wrong.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: For more on the mood tonight in Cincinnati, we're joined live by CNN's Brian Palmer, who's there.
Brian, what's happening as far as you can tell right now?
BRIAN PALMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, we were just cruising the streets a little while ago, just minutes before the curfew descended. We're in the downtown area, as well as the Over- the-Rhine section, where a lot of the disturbances have happened.
Not a lot of cars on the street. Businesses are closed. We've seen some people walking around, kids riding their bicycles, riding scooters, but really not a lot of activity for what, a Friday night.
Now, the police chief told us earlier that he'd be adopting a policy of what they call soft visibility, which means less visibility, less proactive patrolling. But we've already heard that there's already been an arrest for a curfew violation -- Wolf.
BLITZER: We know the funeral is going to tomorrow of Timothy Thomas. That could be a source of some friction in the community. What preparations are being done as a result of that?
PALMER: Wolf, everybody is gearing up and holding their breath for the funeral tomorrow, police members as well as people in the community.
We talked to pastor Damon Lynch, who is the pastor of the New Prospect Baptist Church, which is going to be holding the funeral tomorrow. He's actually asked the Nation of Islam to provide security. His feeling was that the Cincinnati police division might provide a focal point for perhaps too much attention, perhaps some community anger.
So he's asked them to stand back and the Cincinnati police division is respecting that. But they will be out in force tomorrow, Wolf.
BLITZER: Brian Palmer in Cincinnati, thank you very much.
And when we return, how did President Bush do in handling the standoff with China? I'll talk with "TIME" magazine's Michael Weisskopf and Clarence Page of "The Chicago Tribune." And later, a look at how CNN was able to get those exclusive pictures of the end of the U.S.-China standoff.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. U.S. and Chinese officials are due to meet Wednesday in Beijing to discuss who's at fault for the collision and how to mend diplomatic relations.
Joining me now to talk about President Bush's handling of the situation and future relations with China, Michael Weisskopf, senior correspondent for "TIME" magazine, former Beijing bureau chief for "The Washington Post," and columnist Clarence Page of "The Chicago Tribune." Thanks for joining us.
Let's start with you, Michael. How did President Bush do in his first crisis that he really had to deal on an international level?
MICHAEL WEISSKOPF, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, "TIME": In the first 48 hours, Wolf, he did absolutely the wrong thing. He got the Chinese leadership in a corner of sounding aggressive. Over the next nine days, he did beautifully. He gave them enough room to get out of the corner.
Overall, the results are in the product. He got the 24 guys home. That's 24 good reasons for his success.
BLITZER: Clarence?
CLARENCE PAGE, "CHICAGO TRIBUNE": I agree. And also back here domestically he was able to keep his own hard-liners among Republicans here in Washington at bay. Bill Kristol at "The Weekly Standard" was about the only voice we heard saying he wasn't being tough enough.
BLITZER: In fact, Bill Kristol has an article with Robert Kagan in "The Washington Post" today.
PAGE: That's right.
BLITZER: Let me read an excerpt from that. He says -- and this is a conservative Republican. He says: "So far, the lesson is all too clear: When you bully the United States, the United States searchers for a way to apologize."
PAGE: Right.
BLITZER: That's strong criticism from the right on President Bush.
PAGE: And we're starting to hear a few more rumblings now about we're not being tough enough with China. We ought to clamp down now, sell the high technology to the Taiwanese and have even more flights along the coast of China. There's going to be a lot of that in the coming days.
But so far, though, this past week, President Bush seemed to do everything exactly right -- I agree with Michael -- after that early rough start. Colin Powell giving direction to the policy -- this was a very good week for him. And it seems that Donald Rumsfeld was sort of put a little bit farther into the background. He seems to be more of a hard-liner about these things.
The diplomatic route was the way they went.
WEISSKOPF: What you had here, Wolf, interestingly is the rare time when people in the Pentagon trusted the folks at State, primarily because the guys at State, particularly General Powell, once were in the Pentagon.
Usually, there's a tension going on, but you didn't have it this week.
BLITZER: Who blinked first, though, in this confrontation?
WEISSKOPF: Well, clearly, President Bush, if he didn't blink at least, he closed his eyes real quickly and opened them really quickly by putting out the olive branch and putting it in terms of regret. In the end, the Chinese blinked by giving back really what we wanted.
PAGE: Do you agree with that?
PAGE: Yeah, I do. And a couple of strange things happened. On Tuesday, the negotiations seemed dead in the water. Bush said it was a stalemate. Jesse Jackson was ready to step in. Then early the next morning, all of a sudden, boom, the Chinese came back and said this latest note is just fine. Maybe it was because they were -- that the Chinese move slower than we do. That's what the National Security Council was saying. Maybe it's that they really wanted to get this thing over with, too.
But it is true: The proper wording was given that enabled both sides to be able to claim victory.
BLITZER: Donald Rumsfeld, we did hear from him today, came out talking, pinned the blame directly on that Chinese fighter pilot, Wang Wei. He said that his reckless flying in effect was the cause of this plane -- and he pointed out it was an $80 million aircraft that the United States now has effectively lost.
When those negotiations begin on Wednesday, should the U.S. submit a bill to China and say, we want that money?
WEISSKOPF: I am sure that the Chinese will offer a bigger bill of sale in terms of the upkeep and feeding of our troops there. (CROSSTALK)
But the big question -- the big question is how will the Chinese leadership interrupt those remarks from Rumsfeld. Will they be alienated by them? And I think they'll probably see them the right way, which is the way I see them at this point, and that is that those remarks aimed as much at the Republican right as they were at Beijing in the sense that President Bush successfully tamped down that kind of criticism from his own party on the right. It gave him enough negotiating room and political space to resolve this issue. Now, those people have to be fed.
BLITZER: It would be easy right now, Clarence Page, for a lot of people to see that there's passions on both sides. They adamantly believe they were right in China. People here believe that the U.S. was adamantly right.
But there could be some serious problems if they don't work together. Tom Friedman, the foreign affairs columnist of "The New York Times," writes today this: "Those voices in the U.S. now calling for America to stick it to China and to teach them a lesson sound as silly as 'The China People's Daily' hectoring America. We may be doomed to a Cold War with China, but it is not something we should court."
PAGE: Well, I think most people would agree with that, that we don't want to court another Cold War. It was important for Rumsfeld from a negotiating position to throw down some markers, too: After a week of hearing the Chinese talk about how they have been wronged, how they have been injured, we had to point out, hey, you guys were the ones who -- who came up and really were at fault in this accident. That was what Rumsfeld was saying.
But they've got to start negotiating some new rules of the road as far as "rules of engagement" and the sticky question of continued flights. We've got to do them. I mean, there's no way the U.S. is not going to continue those flights. And the whole question of tensions over Taiwan are big questions that are going to have to be dealt with. This plane is just part of it.
BLITZER: Michael, you know, you spent five years in China, you know China. Put on your old China hat right now. And there seems to be a real raw nerve that the Chinese felt when there was discussion of the 2008 Summer Olympics, which they badly want to host. The ambassador here in Washington sending a letter to every member of Congress saying, don't interfere in that.
WEISSKOPF: This was a country, Wolf, don't forget, which was totally isolated just 20 years ago. It is emerging. It's economy is running at a pace of 18 percent a year. It is building itself militarily. It wants international respect.
Don't forget: It wasn't long ago that China joined the United Nations. This is yet another big step in that direction. The WTO is as well. BLITZER: You know -- you're going to get the last word, Clarence. We only have a few seconds. But if Bill Clinton had made this exact deal with China, what would the right wing of the Republican Party be saying right now?
PAGE: I think they would have been a lot more vocal than they've been in regard to President Bush. But you know, Wolf, you've got to remember, too, China this week, their public image was damaged around the world in many ways. This was a setback for them. We got to see China's ugly side. There was more talk here domestically about slave labor domestically in China and how they're a good trading partner but a terrible partner as far as worker rights and human rights.
So they've got some damage to take care of here, too.
BLITZER: I guess the Chinese never saw the movie "Love Story," when they said...
(CROSSTALK)
... "Love means never having to say, 'You're sorry.'"
Clarence Page, Michael Weisskopf, thanks for joining us.
And still to come, Pope John Paul passes on a familiar Good Friday ritual. We'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. In other top stories, Christians are observing Good Friday, marking the death of Jesus. In Rome, a frail Pope John Paul II presided over the way of the cross. The walk to the Colosseum symbolizes Jesus' walk to the crucifixion.
The pontiff carried the cross for only a short period, the first year he hasn't completed the entire procession.
In Jerusalem, heavy security surrounded procession in the old city. Many believe the Church of the Holy Sepulchre is the exact place where Jesus was crucified and buried.
A solemn homecoming today in Hawaii. The bodies of seven Americans arrived last hour aboard a U.S. Air Force transport at Hickam Air Force Base. The seven were among 16 people killed in a helicopter crash Saturday in Vietnam. The Soviet-built copter was on a search for Americans missing in action in Southeast Asia when it slammed into a mountain.
Yahoo! is saying no to porn. The Internet portal announced today it will stop selling x-rated videos and other pornographic material on its Web pages. Yahoo! was flooded with angry calls and e-mails after "The Los Angeles Times" reported the financially ailing company was quietly expanding its adult offerings.
In tonight's "Leading Edge," the little camera that could. CNN's exclusive pictures of this week's departure of the Navy surveillance plane crew from China were made possible thanks to a new technology known as a videophone. A hybrid of video camera, satellite transmitter and telephone, it's portable and easy to use. But there's a tradeoff. The image it provides is slower and less-defined than conventional video.
CNN satellite coordinator Billy Simons explains how it works.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILLY SIMONS, CNN SATELLITE COORDINATOR: In a nutshell, it's hooking up the camera to the videophone, the videophone to the satellite phone, the satellite phone up to a specific satellite, and back down to a receive unit, which is actually in London and Atlanta, or anywhere that you have a receive unit. You just need the correct phone number to dial into.
Essentially, it works exactly like a regular phone call.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: This footnote. CNN's crew on China's Hainan Island transmitted the pictures by rigging their videophone to a car battery for power.
Up next, I'll open our mailbag: What's the difference between calling someone your uncle or your mother's brother? And what does that have to do with China? I'll tell you when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Time now to open our mailbag. Lots of reaction to the way President Bush handled the standoff with China.
James from Florida writes this: "The release of the spy plane was no foreign policy victory for the Bush administration. The Chinese twisted our arm and told us to say 'uncle.' Bush said 'mother's brother' and claimed victory."
But Stephen from Rhode Island writes: "It is hard to fault the Bush administration when our troops are home safely and will soon be with their families."
And Ron from California adds: "Americans should not just forgive and forget the recent actions of China. We should make a concerted effort to stop buying products made there and revoke their favored trade status. China is right when they say this is not over yet."
Remember, you can e-mail me at wolf@cnn.com. I just might read your comments on the air.
And you can read my daily online column previewing our nightly programs by going to our WOLF BLITZER REPORTS Web site: cnn.com/wolf.
Please stay with CNN throughout the night. Gadget inventor Ron Popeil is Larry King's guest at the top of the hour. Up next, Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by to tell us what she has -- Greta. GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT": Wolf, we're going to spend the whole half hour on Cincinnati. We're going to go to Cincinnati, speak to the prosecutor as well as the lawyer for the victim of that shooting. Is it a race issue? A white officer shooting a black man -- we're going to dig deep into that tonight -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Greta, an important subject. We'll be watching. And I'll see you Sunday on "LATE EDITION," the last word in Sunday talk. Among my guests, Senators Jon Kyl and Barbara Boxer. That's Sunday noon Eastern.
Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
