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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

U.S. and China to Discuss Mid-Air Collision; U.S. Plans Resumption of Reconnaissance Flights

Aired April 17, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Tonight: dramatic new evidence of what the U.S. calls dangerous flying by Chinese pilots. As the United States and China sit down to discuss their recent standoff, we'll go to the Pentagon, the State Department and Beijing, and I'll speak with someone who's been face-to-face with the Chinese: former U.S. Ambassador James Sasser.

Is the Middle East situation spinning out of control? Following Palestinian mortar attacks, Israel reoccupies a corner of Gaza and gets slapped by the Bush administration.

Also, will the Confederate battle flag continue to fly over Mississippi? The voters have just decided: we'll have a live report.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.

With talks set to start in Beijing possibly within the hour on the collision between a U.S. surveillance plane and a Chinese fighter jet, each side is still blaming the other, but the United States has offered new material to bolster its case. And CNN has learned the U.S. will resume its surveillance flights, perhaps as soon as this week. But as our military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports, there will be changes made, and that's our top story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More videotapes released Tuesday document what the Pentagon says are aggressive and dangerous intercepts conducted since late December by Chinese pilots based at Hainan Island.

In one tape from January 30th, Wang Wei, the pilot who collided with the U.S. EP-3, can be seen making gestures and holding up a paper with what appears to be his e-mail address at yeah.net. The Pentagon is singling out the pilots from Wei's squadron as some of the worst offenders when it comes to harassing U.S. flights.

REAR ADM. CRAIG QUIGLEY, PENTAGON SPOKESMAN: We have no problem with intercepts of our reconnaissance and surveillance aircraft, as long as it is done in a safe manner. The issue is the overly aggressive flying, and the squadrons that come out to do intercepts to the East Coast of China do not appear to have the same aggressive flying style as those along the South Coast.

MCINTYRE: In fact, administration sources say when U.S. reconnaissance flights resume, possibly later this week, they will first fly a pattern to the north, where the Chinese fighter pilots have generally kept their distance, and avoid for a while the southern route that takes the planes near Hainan Island.

That plan will also allow for land-based U.S. fighter escort jets to fly from Korea or Japan to protect the flights if China won't agree to back off. That kind of fighter support requires constant aerial refueling, something that is difficult to do from an aircraft carrier.

So, the Pentagon says the U.S. aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk will continue toward Guam. Pentagon officials insist there are no plans to turn it around to send any signal to the Chinese.

Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The U.S. and China are each taking a tough stance as they begin face-to-face talks. For more on what's at stake, let's go live to CNN State Department correspondent Andrea Koppel.

It seems, Andrea, a lot of posturing on both sides in advance of these negotiations. What about the issue of U.S. arm sales to Taiwan that seems to be hovering over the negotiations as well?

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, in addition to that very public show-and-tell over at the Pentagon today, CNN has learned that privately, the Pentagon and State Department are advising President Bush not to go forward with the sale of those four aegis- equipped guided missile destroyers, something that China has drawn a red line about.

Instead, in the hours and minutes now leading up to today's talks in Beijing, the message from the Bush administration seems to be one of firm yet flexible carrots and sticks now look to China, hoping that this meeting in Beijing doesn't turn into a shouting match.

BLITZER: Andrea, realistically, what is the Bush administration hoping will happen over the next two days, the scheduled amount of time for these talks in Beijing?

KOPPEL: Well, fundamentally, they're hoping that they get two things. One, that they get that EP-3 surveillance plane back, that they're able to repair and retrieve it.

And Secondly, they're hoping to get assurances from China that the kind of behavior that they've seen from that pilot Wang Wei in the videotape, and other Chinese pilots ends, because the U.S. says those surveillance flights will continue and they want to make sure that they don't have another future incident like the one we saw two weeks ago.

BLITZER: Andrea Koppel at the State Department, thank you very much.

It's already Wednesday morning in Beijing, where the talks are about to begin. Joining us now: CNN Beijing bureau chief Rebecca MacKinnon.

Rebecca, how is all the tough talk from the Bush administration playing in Beijing right now?

REBECCA MACKINNON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, it doesn't seem to be playing very well. The Chinese foreign ministry accusing U.S. officials making irresponsible remarks, twisting the facts, and trying to deflect responsibility from what the Chinese side believes is -- the U.S. is fundamentally responsible for the accident.

Now, the focus of the Chinese side is that the accident would not have happened in the first place if U.S. flights had not been conducted so close to Chinese airspace. The view here is, that whatever the cause of the collision, the U.S. had no right to be there.

BLITZER: Rebecca, you heard Jamie McIntyre report that the U.S. is planning on resuming those surveillance flights in the north, beginning perhaps as early as this week. What will that presumably do to the fate of that EP-3 surveillance plane, still in the ground on Hainan Island?

MACKINNON: Wolf, that's a very good question. The Chinese foreign ministry has repeated over and over again, it wants the flights to stop. Now, when asked at a press conference yesterday, the foreign ministry spokesperson was asked directly, what about the EP-3 surveillance plane? Will it even be discussed in these talks coming up today about the return of the plane?

The foreign ministry spokesperson would not even respond directly to the question and simply continued to repeat China's version of the agenda, which includes very prominently the halt to all surveillance flights and finding away to prevent such incidents from happening again. So, it appears from the Chinese point of view, the return of the EP-3 is certainly not a priority in the talks, and it's not clear whether it will be seriously addressed by the Chinese today -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Rebecca MacKinnon in Beijing, thank you very much.

And, for more on the Chinese view of the situation, let's stay in Beijing, we're joined by Yan Xuetong, director of the Institute of International Studies at Tsinghua University in Beijing.

Mr. Yan, thank you very much for joining us. What about all the evidence? The videotapes being released by the Pentagon that appear to show that the pilot Wang Wei was responsible, got reckless, according to the U.S. Defense Department, in his effort to intercept the American surveillance planes? Is it possible that the Chinese government will concede that it was the fault of the Chinese pilot for that collision?

YAN XUETONG, TSINGHUA UNIVERSITY: I think this picture won't provide any evidence there's China was responsible for this (UNINTELLIGIBLE), because now everyone believe that just because American doing the spying flying along too close to the Chinese border, so it caused this especially when talking about the Wang Wei tried to stop all make this military surveillance difficult, the people believe (UNINTELLIGIBLE) because every country would do the same.

And so, when they show the picture, that just shows what people believe what Wang Wei did right. When they just question, why the U.S. tried to defend themselves, they have the right to peek into others window to see their privacy, so people can't accept that, it's not clear by China but not Americans peeking into others window.

BLITZER: Mr. Yan, how is the Chinese government likely to respond later this week perhaps when the U.S. resumes those surveillance flights in the northern part off the coast of China?

YAN: I think China negotiating goal is very clear, try to stop America surveillance, get too close to China's border. So, China will insist on that. I cannot predict the result, but I know the first round of negotiations will be very difficult. And very difficult for both sides to reach an understanding in the very near future. So, I think China will insist (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to stop that surveillance along Chinese coast.

BLITZER: Yan Xuetong, thanks for joining us this morning in Beijing, thank you so much.

Up next: he's had his own difficult discussions with China. I'll speak live with former U.S. Ambassador to China James Sasser.

And later: as Israeli troops move into, and out of, Gaza, a scolding from the Bush administration.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. He's been through tough talks with the Chinese, and tough times: The violent protests in Beijing which followed the U.S. bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.

Joining me now from our Washington bureau, the former U.S. ambassador to China, and former U.S. Senator, James Sasser. Mr. Ambassador, thanks for joining us. The talks in Beijing could begin within the next hour or so. Who has the upper hand going into these negotiations?

JAMES SASSER, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: Well, I don't think either side has the upper hand. I think the we'll be asking for the release of our aircraft. We'll be asking for some rules of the road, in agreement with the Chinese so that incidents like this won't occur again. And the Chinese will be asking, perhaps even demanding, that we stop these surveillance flights.

So given that scenario, these talks, I think, are going to be difficult. BLITZER: Presumably, the U.S. side will be showing those videotapes on Wang Wei, the Chinese pilot, getting very, very dangerously close and earlier encounters. Will that have any impact on the Chinese, do you think, in trying to perhaps have them reconsider their stance?

SASSER: I don't think so. And I'm not even sure the Chinese should sit through watching the videotapes. And I'm sure they would say that, "Well, perhaps this is something that occurred before, but this is not germane to this particular incident."

I don't think they'll be very effective with the Chinese, frankly.

BLITZER: Our Beijing bureau chief, Rebecca MacKinnon, has been reporting that people in the Chinese foreign ministry believe they've been set back. They've been stiffed, if you will, immediately after the return of the 24 Americans, a much tougher tone coming from Washington: The release of these videotapes. Is there a serious split in the Chinese split in the Chinese government between the military on one side, the foreign ministry, let's say, on the other?

SASSER: Well, I think if the foreign ministry had been in charge of this situation all the way through, I think our crew would have been released much sooner and we would have had not quite the difficulty we had.

The Chinese military is upset and angry about these surveillance flights. They've been protesting them for long, long time. And it was unfortunate that our airplane had to land on a Chinese military airfield.

I think that really stretched out this whole incident.

BLITZER: Mr. Ambassador, you used to be a United States Senator. Put on that hat for a second. The Congress has been in recess the past couple of weeks. They're coming back on Monday, though. Do the Chinese fully understand the anger, perhaps, that's developed on Capitol Hill and of the American public as a result of standoff?

SASSER: I think that some of the Chinese do. I think that certainly the foreign ministry does. And those who are familiar with the United States. But I'll have to tell you, Wolf, that there is very, very intense anger in China as a result of this incident. So, if I were using a anger gauge, I suspect you might find more anger in China than you do in the United States.

BLITZER: The whole issue of China wanting to host the 2008 Summer Olympics. It's raw nerve. You remember last week, the Chinese ambassador in Washington sending a letter to every member of Congress, saying don't interfere in this decision. Obviously, that's very important to the Chinese and the U.S. does have some leverage on that front.

SASSER: Yes. In this, the Olympics, the Chinese tried for the Olympics earlier, a few years ago, and weren't successful in getting them. And this is a very important issue for China and the Chinese.

The average man on the street wants very much to host these Olympics. It means elevating China's status and prestige. It also means that China is accepted at long last into the community of responsible nations. So it's an important matter for them.

BLITZER: The other important matter for the Chinese, trade. They export a lot more of their exports to the United States than the United States exports to China, and trade is an issue where the United States presumably has a lot of leverage on the Chinese.

SASSER: Well, yes. We take about 20 percent of their exports. We are their second-largest export market, Japan being the first. But they've got some leverage on us as well, because there are many businesses in this country that rely very heavily on these Chinese products to keep going and the low-cost Chinese products keep consumer prices down.

BLITZER: So it's a two-way street on...

SASSER: It's a two-way street also. Yeah, it's a two-way street, Wolf. And we've got a lot of American investment in China. Year-end and year-out, American business is the first- or second- largest foreign investor in China: large multinational operations that have multibillion-dollar investments there. So they've got a little leverage on us as well.

BLITZER: All right. Ambassador Jim Sasser, thank you so much for joining us.

SASSER: My pleasure.

BLITZER: Thank you, and after the break, we'll go live to Mississippi where voters today decided whether or not to drop a controversial Confederate symbol from its state flag. And with a few clicks of the mouse, you now can trace your family ancestry online. We'll explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. In other news tonight, there was a major escalation in Israeli-Palestinian fighting today, sparking unusually strong words from the Bush administration.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): As quickly as it entered, the Israeli army announced it was pulling out of the small corner of Gaza it had reoccupied with a barrage of fire, its tough message to the Palestinians apparently sent. But the Israeli operation came with a price. Secretary of State Colin Powell, through his spokesman, issued a rare criticism of Israel.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: The Israeli response was excessive and disproportionate. We call upon both sides to respect the agreements that they've signed. BLITZER: On Monday, Palestinians in Gaza lobbed mortar shells into Israel, an action Powell branded as provocative. It was seen by Israel as a major escalation.

DORE GOLD, ADVISER TO ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: This attack was aimed during a time of considerable civilian traffic, in rush hour at about 6:30 in the evening, when the number of casualties could have easily gone into the hundreds. We were lucky that there were no civilian casualties.

BLITZER: But the Palestinian Authority says it was not responsible and blames Israel for the escalation.

SAEB ERAKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: This Israeli government must understand that the language of the sword, the language of the gun, the language of the missile, the language of the siege and the closure will not get us anywhere.

TERJE LARSEN, U.N. MIDDLE EAST ENVOY: I think the situation now is more dangerous than it's been for maybe a decade. The situation is threatening to spin completely out of control.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Here in the United States, the polls have just closed only a few minutes ago in Mississippi, where voters are deciding whether to keep the Confederate battle emblem on their state flag, or replace it with a new, less controversial design.

Joining us now live from Jackson, Mississippi, CNN national correspondent Brian Cabell. Brian, do we know anything yet about the outcome of the vote?

BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, Wolf, we don't have any results in yet. We're expecting the first results to maybe come in in another 40 minutes or so. Now, as for turnout, it has been mixed throughout the state. We're told it's been rather busy in some Jackson precincts, but light to moderate throughout the rest of the state.

But if you can believe some of the pre-election polls, it's going to be an uphill battle for those who want to change the Mississippi flag. One poll taken back in late January indicated a 20-point margin for those who wanted to keep the flag. Another poll taken just a couple of weeks ago indicated a 30-point margin for those who wanted to keep the flag.

So, as I say, it's an uphill battle. It will be a major upset if Mississippians vote to change the flag tonight -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Brian, any indication of the turnout among African- American voters in Mississippi?

CABELL: Well, I can tell you we went to two precincts this morning.. And one precinct, after 75 minutes, had only three voters. Another, after a couple of hours, had about 45 voters. We went to a white precinct, by contrast. They had about 150 voters after about three hours or so. So, it certainly, in the precincts we visited, seemed to be higher turnout among whites than among blacks, but we're told among some black precincts here in Jackson it was fairly high.

BLITZER: Brian Cabell in Jackson, Mississippi thank you very much for joining us.

Tonight on the "Leading Edge," if your relatives passed through Ellis Island when they arrived in the United States, you can now trace your ancestry online.

Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FELICITA GABBACCIA SALTO, IMMIGRANT: This is my Uncle Peter, who was 16, and my Uncle Luigi, who was 18.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Gabbaccia family is now listed online in a new Ellis Island database. They're among 17 million immigrants who arrived in America between 1892 and 1924, and whose relatives can now trace the beginnings of life in a new land through ship passenger lists or manifests.

The Family History Project was created by the Statue of Liberty- Ellis Island Foundation.

RUSSELL NELSON, PROJECT VOLUNTEER: It was a big challenge. Just the enormity of the task and the painstaking labor that was required to decipher what was being written on those records.

FEYERICK (on camera): And while there are 22 million names in this database, millions of others are missing. Either the records were lost, the microfilm was too difficult to read, or they were ruined in a fire.

(voice-over): And while it may take several spellings to find a long-lost relative, the program is designed to be relatively easy.

EDWIN SCHLOSSBERG, DATABASE DESIGNER: We've actually put together four different software packages that, in a sense, do similar sounding names.

FEYERICK: Once the Web site is fully up and running, people will even be able to create their own family pages to fill out the details of lives that began anew with a boat ride.

Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And just ahead, the latest on the battle against flood waters in the Upper Midwest.

And we'll update that strange story of the ship reportedly transporting child slaves along the West Coast of Africa. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. In other news tonight, discouraging words over a possible foot-and-mouth disease invasion in the United States. The director of the U.S. lab that tests for such viruses says the chances of an outbreak in this country are, quote, "quite great." The Agriculture Department is enlisting other federal agencies to help protect the U.S. from the disease that's quickly spreading in Europe.

In Wisconsin, folks living along the Mississippi River are bracing tonight for rising flood waters. The river is expected to crest early tomorrow at La Crosse, but not as high as first predicted. The waters reached above 16 feet today, prompting a few hundred residents to evacuate.

After facing harsh criticism over its environmental policy, the Bush administration announced today it will uphold strict regulations on lead standards issued by former President Bill Clinton. The regulations, opposed by industry groups, require thousands more businesses to report their releases of toxic lead to the government.

An updating a story we reported last night, in West Africa, there is still no sign of dozens of children reported to have been aboard a Nigerian freighter intended for slave trade. The freighter docked last night with dozens of adults and other children on board. But so far, authorities have found no evidence it was carrying children destined for slavery. Authorities say the vessel may have been confused with another ship.

Please stay with CNN throughout the night. At the top of the hour, Larry King will talk about presidential clemency with Terri Taylor, who's been in prison for 10 years.

Up next, Greta Van Susteren, she's standing by to tell us what she has -- Greta.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT": Wolf, tonight, we're going to talk about Roger Clinton, brother of former President Clinton, who's got a date with the grand jury on Friday. We'll talk to a "Time" magazine reporter, plus, his lawyer -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Thanks, Greta. Sounds good. Tomorrow night, we'll talk with David Limbaugh. He's Rush's brother, and the author of a new best-seller on the Clinton-Reno Justice Department. He'll face off with former Clinton special counsel Lanny Davis. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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