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CNN Talkback Live

Free-for-All Friday

Aired April 27, 2001 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB KERREY, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: We did not go out on a mission with the intent of killing innocent people. I feel guilty because of what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and we knew exactly who the "they" were, and it was clear who the "them" was. Today, we're not so sure who the "they" are, but we know they're there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), SENATE MINORITY LEADER: One hundred ago, people wondered: What is compassionate conservatism? Now we know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's gone up from like $1.43 to almost $1.70.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's two gas stations by my job, but I drive down here to get $1.39. Up the street, it's $1.46.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very sorry for the incident, and of course, very embarrassed about the whole thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the latest mug shot, latest snapshot in the saga of actor Robert Downey Jr.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NEAL BOORTZ, GUEST HOST: Talk fast before the bell. Say what you have to say. Its "Free-For-All Friday."

Hi, everybody, I'm Neal Boortz. I wish I looked as good as Robert Downey's mug shot. I'm in for Bobbie Battista today. This is "Free-For-All Friday." You know the routine. You just saw the topics. You talk, we talk, the bell rings, we move on.

Now I want you to meet the guests that we're going to have with us today on TALKBACK LIVE. From New York, old friend of mine, Lisa looking great. That's Lisa Evers, host of radio talk show "Street Soldiers with Lisa Evers" on hot 97 WQHT-FM. She's also a reporter for 1010 WINS. And out there in Los Angeles, we have Jane Chastain. Jane, the best thing -- well, it's not the best thing, but she's a private pilot, and she also hosts for "Judicial Watch," Radio America, columnist for Worldnetdaily.com, author of several books. I love this title, "I'd Speak Out On the Issues if I Only Knew What to Say."

Jane, it never stopped me.

JANE CHASTAIN, RADIO AMERICA TALK SHOW HOST: Well, and let me just, Neal, that you're every bit as good looking as Robert Downey. Don't let anybody kid you.

BOORTZ: Oh, yeah, right. OK, well, there goes Jane's credibility at the beginning of the show. And in Washington, we have Joe Madison. Joe and I love to mix it up, aka the Black Eagle. He is a Radio One talk show host, former executive director of the NAACP in Detroit. And I am Neal Boortz, known by several names, including Mr. Insensitive. I'm a syndicated talk radio show host. You can just look at me and see why I'm on talk radio.

So let's get it started. We are talking about former senator Bob Kerrey's Vietnam confessions. All of a sudden, something that happened, what, 30 years ago, 35 years ago gets popped up into the news. And I'm looking at this distinguished panel right now. Let's start out with Lisa.

Lisa, what about Bob Kerrey? Time for him to turn it in?

LISA EVERS, WQHT RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No, I don't think it's time for him to turn it in, Neal. I think what we have to do is recognize that there's a whole generation of people, those who fought in Vietnam, their families, the loves ones, those we lost. Our country owes them an apology. We owe them understanding. And what he is going through now is symptomatic of what many other people who had to endure that war have had to go through. We owe Vietnam vets a lot more, and he should not be ashamed of anything he had to do under unbelievably difficult circumstances.

BOORTZ: But why did this all of a sudden pop up now? Why now all of a sudden do we have former team members alleging that this man and his platoon were intentionally shooting civilians over in Vietnam? I mean, if this guy had information, why wasn't this information out there 15 years ago?

EVERS: Well, I think when you look at what the schedule of events is coming up, there's a major story that is expected to be coming out in "The New York Times" on Sunday. There's a major network news program that has a story coming out about the incident in the next couple of weeks. And Kerrey denied that this had anything to do with it, but one has to wonder about the timing.

BOORTZ: Joe, would you go along with Lisa on that?

JOE MADISON, RADIO ONE TALK SHOW HOST: Oh, I would go along to a certain degree, but I would add this. I think that there needs to be reconciliation, not necessarily for the country, but really for those Vietnam veterans. A lot of what Kerrey described, unfortunately, did go on in Vietnam. It was one of the reasons Martin Luther King gave his famous speech from the Riverside Church, why he opposed the Vietnam War.

What we've never had for veterans is this reconciliation. And I think just like in South Africa after the apartheid era, there needs to be a reconciliation commission that would bring these veterans together and allow them to get it off their chest, because clearly, this has haunted Bob Kerrey for an awful long time. If this was 20 years ago or 25, he would be on trial.

BOORTZ: You want to talk motives? You want to talk motives and why a former team member all of a sudden comes forward and starts telling stories, the truth, the untruth about...

EVERS: Neal, I think...

MADISON: I think it's nightmares.

BOORTZ: Nightmares all of a sudden now when we may be nearing a political race?

MADISON: No, I think -- well, he did say he wasn't going to run or at least his wife said he wasn't going to run for president. I thought like maybe some others that this is what he was getting ready to do: run for president, get it out now, send it up the flagpole, see who salutes it or shoots at it. But I think this has troubled him, has -- and there are probably thousands of Vietnam veterans who have these nightmares every single day.

BOORTZ: Now, Jane, what do you think? We want to set up another government mission, a reconciliation commission to hash over something that happened 30 years ago?

CHASTAIN: No, no, Neal. This was 30 years ago. But, I mean, of course, it was politically expedient for Bob Kerrey to get this out there. If you're planning a run for president or any other major office and you know that someone is investigating something in your past that could be controversial, it's best to get it out there. To Bob Kerrey's credit, he cooperated with the story and he held that news conference and he got it out there.

I just don't think that any of us who have not been in battle have a right to criticize this man. The purpose of war is to kill people and break things. It's ugly. Vietnam was ill defined. There were no clear-cut battle lines, and it was fought largely in the jungle.

And when the war is in your backyard, everyone is a soldier. You may not be wearing a uniform, but men, women, children, people of all ages pick up arms and they fight and they defend themselves. They defend their homes and their families. And if you remember, it wasn't that long ago that some anti-gun types were exercised over the movie, "The Patriot," which showed a young boy picking up a gun and blasting away the enemy in order to defend his family. That's what happens in war.

MADISON: I have to object to that. Look, I'm involved right now in an issue of Sudan. And people are being taken slaves because of war. There is nothing correct or right about that, and it should stop right now. You don't kill babies in wars.

BOORTZ: Well, you don't intentionally, Joe. Hold on one second. We have our loyal studio audience here. Chris has somebody up there wants to ask a question or say something.

CHRIS: Rebecca from Florida, go ahead.

REBECCA: Yes, I do agree that -- I'm a daughter of a soldier, and you do support the soldiers in whatever they do. However, we are right now trying to push for Slobodan Milosevic to be tried in the international war crimes tribunal for crimes against humanity. I'm sorry, but the same argument can be made that former senator Kerrey and his comrades should then also be tried in the international war crimes tribunal for the crimes that they committed in Vietnam. And I think we're setting a very dangerous precedent to say it's 30 years ago, it doesn't matter any more.

BOORTZ: OK, the three of you, you were just shown up by a member of our talk audience. She's absolutely right. We are setting a precedent, are we not?

MADISON: Well, I would agree with her. The only thing it's not going to happen.

EVERS: Neal, this was a unique situation.

MADISON: It's just not going to happen. I mean, she's absolutely right, but you know, let's be honest. It's not going to happen.

EVERS: Neal, let's remember what the circumstances were at that particular moment in history. You had people who were being drafted to fight. You had other people who were dodging the draft. We're not going to mention any names but we all know who they are. And the fact of the matter is is that war is an ugly experience. We've come to a point in American history where we like the idea of these antiseptic aerial-type wars where there are no casualties, we don't see blood. And that's not the reality particularly in Vietnam. They were fighting in a jungle. They had people who were civilians who were opening fire on our troops, on our men. And I think we have to remember that.

MADISON: Well, we also...

CHASTAIN: And let's not forget, too, that this war was ill- defined. Traditionally, women and children have taken part in war. They have done everything they can do to help defend their homes and their families and that war was in their backyard. If you go back to the book of Judges, in the Hebrew scriptures, you will find that it was Jael who drove a tent peg through the enemy general and ended a war in which Israel was trying to survive. It was a woman. She drove a tent peg right through his temple.

BOORTZ: I hope nobody is getting ready for lunch right now. Joe, let me ask you this.

MADISON: With all due respect, there were reports. We know these things happen. There were reports of soldiers throwing civilians and babies in ditches and shooting them.

BOORTZ: But Joe, let me ask you a question.

MADISON: We know that this happens.

EVERS: But, Neal, Neal, let me just say this. Neal, let me just say this.

MADISON: We know it happens.

EVERS: If we're going to talk about a tribunal or we're going to talk about a national reconciliation, and we're going to talk about all of the incidents that have happened in the last century of atrocities committed during the times of war, then we better get a pretty big room and we better have years and years and years to go over it.

BOORTZ: I would ask the three of you to think about this. What's the difference between Bob Kerrey and Jimmy Doolittle? We launch a raid on Tokyo with the absolute knowledge that as soon as those planes release their bombs, women, children, innocent civilians are going to die. It's one of the ugly facts about war. Now what do we do going after Bob Kerrey on this one or setting up some sort of a tribunal to take care of these people?

MADISON: Well, look, again, talk to the Vietnam veterans who served. Talk to them about what they've gone through, listen to their reports. Look, I'm not asking for government funding for this. What I am saying to you is that there are thousands of soldiers who can come forth and tell you stories where they should not have obeyed certain orders. That's all I'm saying, for their sake, not for three or four talk show hosts sitting here on a sterile studio.

BOORTZ: I like the sterile studio. We got a fax right here, e- mail to TALKBACK: "Why is America acting as though it only fights clean and decent wars? Americans are just as guilty of war crimes as any other nations." That's signed, Jessie, who's here in Georgia. I don't know that there's a clean war. I think that there are some that are certainly more excusable than others, but it is a very ugly thing to have to go through, very ugly.

EVERS: And Neal, the point is if we do as Joe suggests and listen to what these veterans have to say, maybe we'll wake up, maybe it will put attention on the fact that these kind of atrocities need not happen again.

MADISON: That's all my point is.

BOORTZ: Well, we're coming close to hearing the bell.

(BELL RINGING)

I wonder -- and there it is. Do we have the guts to ever fight again? That's the bell. Still ahead, we have a hundred days and counting on George W. Bush. So let's come back and talk about how he's doing. Also, air raids. Does civility evaporate with the tube? Chris.

CHRIS: Thank you, Neal. If you want to take our TALKBACK LIVE online viewer vote, the question today is: Incidents of air rage could be reduced if passengers had more patience, airlines stopped serving alcohol, planes had armed guards or emphasis is placed on customer service or none of the above? Take the vote on cnn.com/talkback. AOL keyword is CNN. And "Free-For-All Friday" returns right after these messages.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Radio talk show industry magazine "Talkers" lists Bob Kerrey's memories of Vietnam, the conflict between China and Taiwan, President Bush's stance on the environment, the Peru plane downing and reality television as the top five topics of the week.

BOORTZ: Man, I guess I'm doing something wrong on my talk show. We haven't talked about Kerrey and Vietnam yet. But anyway, welcome back, round two TALKBACK LIVE's "Free-For-All Friday." And I'm Neal Boortz. So watch them come out. We're swinging now over the president's first 100 days.

OK, guys, how in the world did we get into this thing over the first 100 days? I mean, what's the magic in that?

MADISON: I don't know where that came from. I think I heard somebody say it started with Roosevelt. I really don't know. But, you know, obviously, the first 100 days have been mild compared to the last 100 days of Clinton, so I don't know why this is a gauge of anything quite honestly.

EVERS: Neal, basically...

CHASTAIN: And the interesting thing is that the people who are politically astute, mainly the listeners to talk radio, all realize that there is too much emphasis on this first 100 days. I mean, the presidency is marathon, it's not a sprint. But when you look at where Bush was when he came into this thing, I think that where public opinion polls today are rather phenomenal. If you look at the opinion polls, they're right about where they were for his father in 1999 and Bill Clinton in 1993. And when you consider the fact that he was elected by a very narrow margin -- in fact, a lot of people considered this election unsettled when he took office, and he had a late start, and you look at those opinion numbers, I think that's nothing short of fantastic.

EVERS: And Neal, when you look at the 100-day point, that's really the -- on the time line, on the political time line, it's the point that equals the honeymoon being over. And when you take a look at President Bush, whether you agree or disagree with his policies, isn't it refreshing that we can talk about issues instead of having to talk about sex scandals?

BOORTZ: Well, that's the one thing I've been -- Clinton was great for talk radio. I mean, all three of us have to admit that man was our salvation for eight years, and it's been -- we've had to work for a living now the last 100 days.

MADISON: Well, now, whoa, whoa, wait a minute.

CHASTAIN: But, you know, I was trying to remember Clinton's first 100 days.

BOORTZ: Except you, Joe.

MADISON: Thank you. Speak for yourself, I mean, because quite candidly, I mean, we just said it. Clinton's 100 days, same rating; Bush's, same rating; Reagan's, same rating. So, you know, let's wait the end of four years. But, you know, we do have high oil, gasoline prices. The stock market was going absolutely crazy. We've had U.S. civilians shot out of the air. So I mean, you know, we've had some real serious issues here. And I know that people on the other side will say all of that is Clinton's fault and none of this is Bush's fault. But it is not the condition of the presidency that I'm really worried about at this point in time. What is the state of America, especially with these tremendous gasoline prices?

CHASTAIN: All right, but you have to realize that Bush inherited the current situation, so we can't blame him for that. But, you know, I was thinking back about...

MADISON: He didn't inherit the gasoline prices.

CHASTAIN: Wait, wait. I was thinking back about Clinton's first 100 days. And, you know, the thing that really stuck out in my mind between Clinton and Bush is the first 100 days Bill Clinton spent explaining that what we thought we heard him say during his campaign really wasn't that. He didn't mean that. It was really something else. And in Bush's first 100 days, he has spent trying to educate the public and bring everybody along on the programs that he said all along were important to him. So I think to me, that's the major difference of the first 100 days in these two presidents.

BOORTZ: The change for me has been I don't arrive at the studio every morning wondering what the latest revelation of a presidential scandal is going to be. And that's comforting after eight years.

MADISON: But you didn't have that in the first 100 days of Clinton either. So, you know, let's be honest about that.

CHASTAIN: But the word that Clinton used continually in the first 100 days is "Like I said before," which was everyone's queue to realize that he was about to redefine what he meant on a particular issue and tell us what we thought his position was no longer was the position. It meant entirely something else.

BOORTZ: OK, now we have Chris -- Chris here at the studios at CNN Center has found a couple of people who think he's doing a pretty good job.

CHRIS: Yes, Joanne from New Mexico.

JOANNE: Yes. I think he's doing an excellent job. He had a difficult role to fill after such a close election, and I think it's wonderful to be able to see a president that doesn't grab the headlines all the time for himself.

CHRIS: Sarah.

SARAH: Yeah, I think he did a great job with the China issue, which was his first test in an international arena. I think he also did a great job picking his Cabinet. The diversity is amazing which puts down all the idea that he's a racist which most of us didn't believe in the first place. So I think given all things considered, he's done an excellent job.

(APPLAUSE)

BOORTZ: I want to ask one more question of the panel top, our talk show hosts. The rumor, the assumption was when Bush took office a hundred days ago was that he wasn't too bright. If you had that opinion, have you changed your mind? If you know others that have had that opinion, do you think he's managed to change their minds?

EVERS: Neal, I've heard that throughout the campaign, and I heard that from many, many people, especially here in New York City. But I don't think anyone who is not intelligent can get as far politically as he did.

MADISON: I heard that he wasn't too bright, quite candidly, from news people who followed him on the campaign trail. Now what their gauge of that is, I don't know. I think it's a mixed bag of what he has done. The reality is -- and I agree with Lisa on this -- no one gets to be president of the United States, governor of Texas...

BOORTZ: Harvard MBA.

MADISON: ... head of a baseball team without being bright. You know, come on. The reality is we still have a long way to go. There's still a major battle in Congress. So we'll see what happens.

BOORTZ: OK, Molly in Washington, can you get it said in about 30 seconds for us?

MOLLY: Yes. Well, as far as I'm concerned, I don't think President Bush has accomplished all that much except to undo some of the really good things that were done in the past eight years.

BOORTZ: OK, pick the biggest one. Tell us about it.

MOLLY: Thank you.

BOORTZ: The biggest one.

MOLLY: Pardon?

BOORTZ: Pick the biggest thing Bush has undone.

MOLLY: Oh, golly, the thing about the environment.

BOORTZ: Arsenic.

MOLLY: I mean, it benefits not only our generation but generations to come.

BOORTZ: Molly, do you like lobster?

MOLLY: I'm sorry, dear? Do I like lobsters?

BOORTZ: I asked you first.

MOLLY: No.

BOORTZ: OK, just wondering.

More arsenic in a lobster tail than a thousand gallons of water, ladies and gentlemen.

(BELL RINGING)

OK, there's the bell. That's round two. It's over. Up next, bloated gas prices. Why don't you just stay home. Are you writhing in pain at the pump? Stay right there.

ANNOUNCER: Lawmakers in Jefferson County, Missouri can do time for lying during a campaign. A law passed yesterday makes the crime for anyone to knowingly put false information in a political ad. Penalties can include loss of office, a $1,000 fine, and a year in jail.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUESTION: What's the most amount of money you've ever paid for a gallon of gas?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't drive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A-dollar-seventy-five. It was ridiculous. But I was standing at the pump the other day and you realize that you're going to pay it no matter what because your car needs gas. And you have a car, and you have to go someplace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A real big hurt for me. I have a long drive to work every morning. And boy, I tell you, filling up twice a week is tough.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's gone up quite a bit. And I'm glad I take the train.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOORTZ: Oh, boy. OK, now, see, nobody told me: Don't express your opinion. It occurs to me these people whining about gas prices -- Jane, Lisa, Joe, the rest of you -- you know, OK, get rid of your cell phone, turn in the pager, stop buying so much booze, don't go to so many movies, OK, and you can afford the gas. Quit whining. It's not that bad. OK, chime in.

CHASTAIN: Well, it is that bad. But I tell you one thing that sticks in my mind if we wanted an immediate 10-cent a gallon decrease in our gas prices, all we would have to do is get Congress to rollback the federal gas tax increase that were passed by the last two administrations. When President Bush, the first, cooperated with the Democrats in Congress and passed his $500 billion deficit reduction bill in 1990, he hiked the price of gasoline 5 cents. It was only supposed to be temporary, but as you all know, the closest thing to eternal life we have in this world is a temporary tax. It has now been made permanent, and then Clinton added another 4.3 cents. They do it this way because they think these little increments, and they stuff it into the price of gasoline and we'll never notice. I noticed. And I think we ought to demand that they roll that back.

EVERS: Neal, I'm certainly not going to give up my gas guzzling SUV, and I don't think a lot of other Americans are either. But the serious side of it is that come fall, if these price increases continue, it's going to pose a tremendous hardship on people with fixed incomes who are living in homes and have to pay for home heating oil.

MADISON: This time last year, oil companies were complaining that they weren't getting enough returns. They weren't -- dividends weren't high enough. Their stocks weren't high enough. All of a sudden, isn't it interesting that record profits are being reported the same time that gas prices are going up? I understand the taxes because it's just not federal taxes. You have county taxes and local taxes. And let's be honest. A lot of those taxes pay to repair potholes. They pay... CHASTAIN: A lot of them...

MADISON: ... to keep streets...

CHASTAIN: ... don't.

MADISON: They keep -- yes, that's true. Nothing's absolute. But the reality is that I think we need to investigate why all of a sudden we're seeing 50, 60 percent profit at the same time...

BOORTZ: Whoa, whoa! Wait! Whoa, whoa! Wait! Joe...

MADISON: ... are going way up.

BOORTZ: Joe, who has a 50 percent profit?

MADISON: Oh...

BOORTZ: Who?

MADISON: Wait a minute. Just today it was reported that oil companies are reporting 50 percent profits.

BOORTZ: Joe -- Joe, let me ask you something...

MADISON: They're reporting increases. Now...

BOORTZ: On Monday of this week...

MADISON: ... please...

BOORTZ: On Monday of this week, Exxon...

MADISON: They're not hurting!

BOORTZ: Wait a minute, Joe. On Monday of this week, Exxon Mobil reported a 44 percent increase in their profit margin for the first quarter, right?

MADISON: I'm sorry. I was off 6 percent!

BOORTZ: OK. Joe...

MADISON: Forgive me.

BOORTZ: ... that is an increase in the profit. What is their profit margin? Do you know?

MADISON: But -- but excuse me...

BOORTZ: Joe, what is the profit margin?

MADISON: Wait a minute. Wait a minute, Neal...

BOORTZ: I'll answer the question, Joe.

MADISON: All of a sudden -- all of a sudden...

BOORTZ: It's 6.9 percent, 6.9 percent first quarter for Exxon Mobil, Joe. That's a long way...

MADISON: Neal...

BOORTZ: ... from 50 to 60 percent, Joe!

MADISON: Neal -- Neal -- Neal, we -- Neal, we need to be investigating whether or not there is...

BOORTZ: We need to be...

MADISON: ... gouging going on.

BOORTZ: ... accurate, Joe.

MADISON: Oh (INAUDIBLE)

BOORTZ: OK?

MADISON: All right. So I wasn't -- forgive me for not being accurate, but I'll tell you -- I'll tell you one thing. I was off 6 percent, but I'm...

BOORTZ: No, you were off...

MADISON: I was -- I was...

BOORTZ: You were off 56 percent.

MADISON: I was off 6 percent. You're talking profit margin. We're talking two different things. But I'm not...

BOORTZ: We sure are!

MADISON: ... going to sit here...

BOORTZ: Yeah.

MADISON: I'm not -- I'm not going to sit here and suggest that we ought to give up cell phones and everything else. These price increases went up dramatically in a short period of time, and you're crazy if you don't think that we've got oil available in this country and somebody's making a killing off the American people.

BOORTZ: Yeah, a 6.9 percent killing.

In the audience. Go ahead, Chris.

MADISON: Well, make it 4 percent, Neal.

CHRIS: Well, if it is 6.9 percent, what is that in dollars? The oil companies...

MADISON: Absolutely! CHRIS: ... are making billions every quarter.

MADISON: Billions!

CHRIS: And our environment is suffering, and we have the lowest gas prices in the world. We have nothing to complain about. We need to -- we need to conserve and preserve our environment.

MADISON: Well, I'll tell you what. When you're -- when this man's price goes up for getting on that train, when shipping goes up, when people start getting laid off because companies have to decide whether or not they're going to be able to meet the high cost of fuel versus employment, then invite me back.

BOORTZ: Great timing, Joe. There's the bell.

Up next -- up next: Two gorgeous models, a long flight across the ocean, and all of a sudden they just go bonkers. It's air rage. We're going to give you the naked truth. That'll be right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Do you think alcohol should be served on commercial flights?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. Definitely need it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As much as I enjoy a drink on the plane, I do think it is a risky thing, and I think they should give serious consideration to possibly stopping selling alcohol on planes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's kind of a hard issue because, you know, you hate to take too many rights away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it should be served because I think people should be responsible for their actions.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would feel much safer, actually, with bouncers on commercial flights. Absolutely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOORTZ: OK, I'm Neal Boortz. I'm in for Bobbie Battista. It's a free-for-all Friday.

Our next topic is air rage. Should they serve alcohol on these airplanes? My producer, Belinda, back here wouldn't fly if she couldn't drink.

Now, Peter Buck was arrested for allegedly getting drunk and attacking a flight crew on board a British Airways jet. And here's the twin story we shamelessly teased about. It was a flight from San Francisco to Shanghai. Twin models from Michigan, they're on their way to a modeling assignment, and they drank a little bit too much, started screaming obscenities, and they attacked the crew.

Now, the disruption was so bad, the pilot had to land the plane in Alaska rather than continue the flight.

Now, we have somebody on the panel who has done some modeling. That would be Lisa. Hi, Lisa.

EVERS: Hi, Neal.

BOORTZ: It occurs to me -- now, here's what's going to happen. I'll -- we'll make a little wager, Lisa, Jane, Joe and Neal. About three months from now, we'll have a "Penthouse" or a "Playboy" with the "air rage twins," and these girls are going to be getting big checks for showing it all in the pages of a magazine.

EVERS: I think that's a pretty safe bet, Neal. I think they'll also be making various appearances on certain shows you don't want your children to watch or listen to.

BOORTZ: Yeah. Exactly. So OK, air rage, alcohol on the airplanes -- flying commercial is not a comfortable experience any more. How do you keep the passengers calmed down? Anybody want to chime in on that one?

CHASTAIN: Well, you know, Neal, it is interesting today that on a flight you can buy all the booze you want, but you can't in many -- on many flights get a sandwich or even a granola bar. Today, in the effort to keep the price of airfares low, there are very few meals on flights anymore, yet you can buy all the booze you want. I think, in addition to perhaps limiting the sale of alcohol to maybe wine and beer or maybe putting a two-drink minimum (sic) on short flights, that airlines ought to consider serving or at least selling a little food.

BOORTZ: Well, what is the -- what's the big deal about having to drink on an airplane anyway? I mean, Jane, you and I are private pilots. We know that drinking and flying doesn't mix.

CHASTAIN: That's right. We're not allowed to do that, and I don't think anybody would want to get in an airplane with us if they thought we had a drink.

BOORTZ: No, I don't think so. Why is it so important that we drink on a commercial flight?

EVERS: Neal, you have some people who hate flying, who get very nervous. They find if they have a drink, have another drink, maybe it takes the edge off. It makes the flight go faster. I have a friend who gives her children nighttime cold syrup so her kids sleep all the way through the flight and don't scream and disturb the other passengers. For some people, they just can't handle it.

BOORTZ: And Joe, I believe that you're probably a little bit close to the airline industry, too, aren't you?

MADISON: Well, my wife has worked for United for 30 years. She used to be -- she's the only one in the family with stable employment. Being in talk radio, you know how that is. But you know, it -- it's meals. It's drinks. I've been flying back and forth to Sudan and Kenya a lot. On Swissair and these other airlines, man, they give liquor away. I mean, it is -- it is because...

BOORTZ: Now, Joe, that's because you're flying first class.

MADISON: Well, I don't -- I don't -- I'm not a drinker, so you know, I have to -- I do not drink when I fly because, first of all, it's not healthy. But here's what I think should happen. I think they ought to cut it off, just like a bartender when you go into a bar. A bartender notices when a person has had too much. For safety and legal reasons, they are obligated to cut it off. And I think that's one, what you do.

Secondly, if someone disrupts a flight, they ought to do what a lot of courts in this country refuse to do with drunk drivers, and that is put them in jail, and they should never fly for a long, long time.

BOORTZ: Joe, you and I are on the same page there. And the punishment -- the punishment often is not nearly as severe as it should be.

MADISON: Absolutely.

BOORTZ: We have a flight attendant in the audience up here.

CHRIS: Yes, we do. Kristin, go ahead.

KRISTIN: Well, as a flight attendant, we cater to our customers. And if customers want alcohol, we need to offer that to them. And there's a charge for it. But it is also the flight attendant's responsibility to cut somebody off.

MADISON: That's right.

KRISTIN: And if the flight attendants are doing their job, then there won't -- there wouldn't be air rage, unless they were boarded drunk.

BOORTZ: Kristin, is it -- is booze on an airplane a profit center for the airline?

KRISTIN: Yeah.

BOORTZ: It is.

MADISON: Yeah, like -- hey -- hey, Neal?

BOORTZ: Yeah?

MADISON: Like popcorn is for movies.

BOORTZ: So your experience, Joe, they're making a pretty good buck off this booze, too?

MADISON: I'm not saying -- now, see, don't get -- you're going to get me...

BOORTZ: OK.

MADISON: ... in that argument we had the last time. I don't know what their profit margin is, but let me...

BOORTZ: Ah!

MADISON: Let me tell you something. They're not -- they make money off of it, which is why they sell it and not give it away.

BOORTZ: OK...

EVERS: But -- but Neal, if they also -- if they did as Jane suggested, if they sold some food, that would help for people, too.

BOORTZ: Oh, yeah. The service -- I mean, just the thought for some people...

MADISON: Oh, please.

BOORTZ: ... that I have to take a commercial flight is enough to make you mad. Just the thought of going...

CHASTAIN: But I can tell you...

BOORTZ: ... to the airport and going through that nonsense to get on one of these airplanes...

CHASTAIN: Today passengers are more likely to be on edge because they're hungry. Maybe their flight was changed or maybe they didn't have time to grab a snack between the flights, and they were on one all morning, and all of a sudden, they're facing three hours with no food. I mean, I think it would be a smart thing to do for the airlines to start selling sandwiches instead of booze.

BOORTZ: Now, Joe, you and I have a friend here, Bill in Toledo -- "Air rage endangers the lives of everyone on the commercial aircraft. Perpetrators of air rage should be dealt with swiftly and severely." And one more thing, Joe. It ought to be publicized widely.

MADISON: Absolutely. I heard somebody, I think, in your tease say they ought to have bouncers on airplanes. We're you going to bounce them?

(LAUGHTER)

CHASTAIN: It's a long way down!

EVERS: But Neal, the penalty...

BOORTZ: That's the bell. I'll just make a trade with somebody in coach.

OK, what should happen to Robert Downey, Jr.? We're going to talk about that next right here on TALKBACK LIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOORTZ: OK, you heard the name Robert Downey, Jr. And what comes to mind? Well, "Ally McBeal." Something else that comes to mind is his -- how many times has he been arrested now for -- well, he did it again this week. They picked him up in Culver City staggering down the road. It's cost the producers of "Ally McBeal" a lot of money. They're having to rewrite some episodes.

So what should happen to Robert Downey, Jr., right now? Oh, what a good-looking guy! OK, Jane, Joe, Lisa, it's yours. Take it.

(CROSSTALK)

CHASTAIN: ... lock him up, and they ought to throw away the key for about three years.

BOORTZ: Oh!

CHASTAIN: That was the sentence the last time around.

BOORTZ: Jane!

CHASTAIN: And they let him out after only a year.

BOORTZ: Jane, who's the victim here?

CHASTAIN: Who's the victim here?

BOORTZ: Well, I mean, if you're going to lock somebody -- you're going to take somebody's liberty away from him, who's the victim of his crime?

CHASTAIN: Well, when you -- when you take drugs, you put yourself and society at risk. And right now, doing drugs is a crime, and it -- obviously, the year behind bars didn't make enough of an impression on him.

BOORTZ: So what's, two years going to make an impression...

EVERS: Neal -- Neal, let's -- Neal, let's look at...

CHASTAIN: Well, we can hope so.

BOORTZ: Yeah.

EVERS: Neal, let's look at the facts. I mean, this most recent arrest was for being under the influence or apparently being under the influence of drugs. That's what's alleged by the police. This is a man who, at the age of 6, was given marijuana by his father. So what kind of a chance did he stand? And I'm not saying get out the handkerchief and start crying for him, but the fact of the matter is, he has a very serious disease. He cannot be out in society having that kind of disease. One of his arrests was for having a loaded 357 Magnum with him. But he needs to be in a facility other than a prison because in a prison, in many prisons throughout the country, you can get drugs. He needs to be in a secure facility where he is -- has the option of getting treatment. And if he does not want treatment, he cannot be outside, mixing with society, harming himself or other people.

BOORTZ: Joe, looking for a little compassion here. Will I get it from you?

MADISON: Well, I would remind some people that alcohol is a drug, too, and probably before Friday night is over, a lot of people are going to be taking that drug. The other reality is he's a lucky man. He's lucky he has a job. He's lucky he can afford treatment because there are literally millions of people who can't afford treatment, who don't have medical insurance that provides them treatment. If every drug addict in this country right now wanted to get off drugs and went to some cities for treatment, there wouldn't be enough beds for them. I think our war on drugs is a joke. I think that it is a shame when people can't get help. And talking about putting people in jail -- let me tell you, in most jails today they don't provide rehabilitation or treatment to get off drugs. So you'll lock him up, he'll come out, and he'll do it all over again, like thousands, hundreds of thousands of people.

EVERS: And Neal, that's...

MADISON: We need a real drug policy in this country that helps people who are addicted.

BOORTZ: Let me take Darren from the -- from Florida right now on the phones.

Darren, your thoughts?

DARREN: My thoughts is I just wanted to say, you know, I was listening to everybody's conversations, I mean, of how, you know, when he was fed marijuana at the age of 6 -- I mean, that's -- that's his father's fault, number one. His father shouldn't have gone ahead and even given him that. I mean, if his father was even remotely smart, which he's not, I mean, he would have gone ahead and said, "Well, this isn't right for my son."

MADISON: They should have thrown the father in jail for child abuse.

DARREN: Exactly. I mean, you know, and -- and why is he just going ahead and getting three years? He should get anywhere from 10 to 20. I knew somebody that got 25 years just for having two grams of cocaine on him.

MADISON: Let me tell you, Kimba -- Kimba Smith -- Kimba Smith got 26 years, never took drugs, never sold drugs, just happened to have a boyfriend who was a drug trafficker, and she got 26 years.

EVERS: And Neal, the -- the reality is, is that we have many people in prison today throughout the country who are there because of drug problems. That disease led them into criminal behavior. And without treating that disease, that criminal behavior is going to continue in a cycle that we can't stop.

BOORTZ: And Lisa...

CHASTAIN: All right, but who should be...

BOORTZ: It led him into...

CHASTAIN: ... responsible -- who...

BOORTZ: ... criminal behavior because of...

CHASTAIN: ... should be responsible...

BOORTZ: ... the war on drugs.

CHASTAIN: ... for this treatment? I mean, here we have a situation -- you get cancer, and you're expected to pay for your own medical treatment, or at least have the kind of insurance that will cover you if -- if you do. But I mean, doing drugs is a choice. And we know that -- that drugs are addictive.

BOORTZ: Jane, I want to get...

EVERS: But we're already paying.

BOORTZ: We have somebody in the audience real quick. Chris?

CHRIS: I think definitely doing drugs is a crime, but in addition to punishing the crime, we need to help the criminal, who also is the victim. In February, two months ago, I threatened to kill somebody -- actually, the associate dean for medical student affairs at the school where I am a medical student. And if they had not, like, had me put in a psychiatric unit, evaluated and diagnosed with bipolar manic-depressive disorder, I would have killed somebody.

BOORTZ: Well...

CHASTAIN: All right, but it's not like Robert Downey, Jr., didn't get any drug treatment in prison. There was a TV special on the man this week. I watched it, and I watched some of his counseling sessions.

BOORTZ: Hey, we're getting...

CHASTAIN: In fact, at one point, I think he became a counselor.

BOORTZ: We're getting close to the bell. My favorite fax has now come through. Joe, you'll enjoy this one. "This show could not have found a more obnoxious, shallower and self-important bigmouth to replace Bobbie." That's Jeff in Saratoga.

There's the bell! OK, we'll be back, TALKBACK LIVE, in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOORTZ: OK. Well, thanks to those comments. So we're going to check the on-line poll results right now, Chris?

CHRIS: Yes. Here they are, Neal. "Incidents of air rage could be reduced if" -- the winner today is, at 46 percent, "more emphasis is placed on customer service." Next we have "airlines stop serving alcohol." That's 24 percent. "Passengers had more patience," that's 16 percent. "None of the above" had 9 percent. And coming up in the rear, "planes had armed guards." That's at 5 percent.

BOORTZ: Yeah. Severe punishment -- severe punishment might have worked.

I did get this email. "Whoever this guy is, he's really bright. I think he should have his own show." Folks, that's not going to happen! Look. Look at this, OK? This is not TV hair. We'll see you later.

MADISON: Hey, they just don't know how really a nice guy you are, Neal. That's all.

BOORTZ: I want to thank Jane, Lisa and Joe. Joe, you and I agree on more than we thought we would. You all take care. See you later. TALKBACK LIVE.

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