THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONNA KELLEY, CNN ANCHOR: Housing the homeless is an economical solution to the problem of homelessness; so says a landmark study by the University of Pennsylvania. The study shows that mentally ill homeless people in New York city cost taxpayers $40,000 a year per person; and that's about the same amount that it would cost to house them.
For more on the study we turn to the man who led the research, Dennis Culhane, who is associate professor of social work at U. Penn, and he joins us live from Philadelphia. And from New York is Albert Sipher, he's a tenant of the homeless housing in Brooklyn.
Glad to have both of you join us, thanks so much.
Professor Culhane, let me start with you: How do you come up with the numbers; how do those match up? Some people might say, are you sure that it costs just as much to house them as not?
DENNIS CULHANE, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: Sure; we followed about 10,000 people for about five years through computer records that the city and state maintain, and we found that people use $40,000 worth of services, when you tally up the time spent in hospitals, in shelters and in jails.
KELLEY: Professor Culhane, you put them in what you call supportive housing; what is that?
CULHANE: Supportive housing is permanent housing, where people are actually tenants; and services are provided to them every week. Case managers come, nurses come, and make sure that people are taking their medications, and following through with their services, and they don't fall between the cracks.
KELLEY: Yes, those services have to be critical, because you can't just put them in a home even though that addresses a huge issue for someone who's homeless. But they still have -- particularly when they're mentally ill -- have to have this care.
CULHANE: Absolutely. Without the services, people would sometimes, you know, stop taking their medication, they would stop seeing their doctor, and pretty soon people could decompensate; they end up getting thrown out of the housing and back on the streets.
KELLEY: Albert, you are an inspirational story: You were diagnosed with schizophrenia, you lost your job, you slipped into drug abuse, you lost touch with your son -- and now here you are; you're in this housing and your life has turned around. Tell us what it's like for you now as opposed to when you were on the streets.
ALBERT SIPHER, HOMELESS HOUSING TENANT: Well, what it's like now is, it's a completely different deal. I'm functioning; I've been under care and I've been functioning pretty well the last two years or so. And before that I was a complete mess; you know, I was just in the streets and without no purpose in life.
KELLEY: And you've connected back with your son, even?
SIPHER: Yes, the last two years since I've been clean -- I've been clean now for two years. And within those two years, I have begun a good relationship with my son.
KELLEY: And you're going on to do -- you have a job now with the program, and you're going on to be a caseworker to help other folks; is that right?
SIPHER: Yes; yes. I was originally hired as a receptionist and I just was interviewed for the case A position at my job, which is project renewal. And they hired me, and I start the 14th; so I'm pretty excited about that.
KELLEY: It's just wonderful, Albert.
How are you going to approach somebody to try and convince them, though -- someone who might be mentally ill -- that they should get into this program and what it can do for them?
SIPHER: Well, like the doctor was saying, I think the supportive housing is a great, great thing. And I would just encourage people to -- if they have a mental illness or drug addiction or both -- to really, you know, think about turning their life around and getting into the program.
KELLEY: What if they don't want to go, though? What will you say to them? You've been there.
SIPHER: Well, I would say, you know, when are you tired? You know -- I mean, there has to be some point in time where you're tired of running the streets and not having anything and being homeless and without anything. There has to be a point in time, you know.
KELLEY: Professor Culhane, there are a number of agencies, though, that you have to pull together to make this all work. Tell us your plan there.
CULHANE: Well, it's pretty complicated, because the housing agencies with the federal government are the ones who typically pay for all this housing -- and in New York the state has helped out. But the savings associated with people being in this housing is incurred on the health side. So we need to try to find a way to get health insurers, Medicaid and states to start to pay for some of the services for this housing, or else the housing really can't work. KELLEY: You think it's solvable though, don't you?
CULHANE: Absolutely. Homelessness is a finite problem along the mentally ill. There are about 110,000 people who are homeless with mental illness in the United States; and based on this study we know that to taxpayers, really, the problem -- the solution costs the same as the problem.
KELLEY: So the resources are there, so you just have to move the dollars around, isn't that what you would say?
CULHANE: Exactly. And that's a political challenge, but I think that we can get it done.
KELLEY: Albert, tell us a little bit more about what you plan to do next; how the program has changed, of course, as we know, your life. But in being a case worker, now, what's your next step?
SIPHER: Well, my next step is to basically learn; you know, learn more about case work. I plan on -- I've applied for college again, and I hope to get my degree in social work. And I just want to learn more about the social work atmosphere.
KELLEY: Keep it up; you know there are a lot of folks cheering you, Albert. Thank you very much, Albert Sipher, who's with the project, and Professor Dennis Culhane, who authored the study, from the University of Pennsylvania. Delighted to have you both with us, thank you.
CULHANE: Thanks.
SIPHER: Thank you.
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