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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

Gasoline Prices Continue to Climb; Report Says Gridlock Worsening in America

Aired May 07, 2001 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST: Tonight, the price of gasoline hits a new high. And your blood pressure may follow. The average American now spends 36 hours a year sitting in traffic.

Is conservation the answer? We'll have a debate between Joe Kennedy of Citizens Energy and Jerry Taylor of the Cato Institute.

Last month's shooting of an unarmed African-American man by a white police officer sparked civil unrest in Cincinnati. Now, a grand jury issues its findings. We'll have a live report.

And a Florida jury has seen a videotaped killing. And now, a videotaped confession, as a 14-year-old faces possible life in prison, charged with the fatal shooting of a teacher.

Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer, reporting tonight from Washington.

There was an alarming headline today on the front page of "USA Today": "California, Chicago Brace for $3 Gas." That may be premature, but then again, experts say the signs are not encouraging. There's word today the price for a gallon of gasoline in the United States has never been higher. And just as the nation gets ready for the busy summer driving season, there's a new study out today that shows gridlock is getting worse in major U.S. cities. And that's our top story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is bumper-to-bumper...

BLITZER (voice-over): A new report shows traffic in major U.S. cities is getting worse, with the average American spending 36 hours a year stuck in traffic. And for some, it's a lot worse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On a week like this week, I'll be in the car 25 to 30 hours.

BLITZER: The three worst-rated cities, all on the West coast: Los Angeles, Seattle and San Francisco. The report, compiled at Texas A&M University, reveals a staggering toll taken on jobs and pocketbooks: $78 billion in lost productivity, 4.5 billion hours of delay, 6.8 billion gallons of wasted gasoline. That makes the latest news at the pumps all the more painful: the Lundberg survey reports the highest-ever average price for a gallon of self-serve regular gasoline: $1.72. The highest in the country: Chicago and San Francisco, where a gallon of gas is now around $2.

And as drivers fume, the debate over U.S. energy policy sharpens in Washington. The Bush administration wants more domestic exploration, a greater emphasis on nuclear power and more refineries to accommodate the growing national demand.

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The American way of life is something that needs to be protected as we enjoy our resources, as we enjoy the American standard of living.

BLITZER: A group of prominent scientists says the answer is conservation.

ALDEN MEYER, UNION OF CONCERNED SCIENTISTS: By recommitting to 19th and 20th century energy sources like coal, oil and nuclear power, rather than the clean, advanced and renewable energy sources of the 21st century, the Bush-Cheney plan threatens our long-term economic competitiveness.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: The Bush administration is ready to unveil an overall energy strategy next week, but consumers left sputtering at the pump should not look for instant remedies. Let's go live to the White House with our senior White House correspondent John King.

John, with the vice president about to release his recommendations to the president, this potentially could be a huge political problem for the this administration?

JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: In some ways, Wolf, a problem, in other ways an opportunity. Yes, the administration expecting a lot of criticism. As governor, George W. Bush worked to help the oil industry, as president he says there's very little a president can do in the short term. No magic wand, the White House says, to bring about lower gas prices.

So, the report from the administration will talk about increasing supply, as you mentioned in your piece, but years down the road, as you increase exploration, as you bring online more refineries. Very little in the short term to deal with rising gas prices this summer.

The administration knows it will come under some criticism for that, but it is hoping is that there is a silver lining, that just the discussion of the short-term energy crisis will convince people that perhaps they ought to listen and urge their members of Congress to get behind the president's controversial long-term solutions.

BLITZER: John, as you know, last week, the vice president addressed the Associated Press meeting in Toronto. He seemed to downplay the importance of conservation. Today, the White House insisting there should be no reduction in the lifestyle of Americans. What is the strategy behind those remarks?

KING: Well, again, it's a twofold issue. The administration still making up some ground for that speech, they will make the case that it was wrongly interpreted, and that conservation will play a major part in the plan. There will be more money for energy efficiency, more tax credits, research and development for things like biomass and other alternative fuels.

But what they will say is that in the short term, you must go back to more oil, more gas, more clean coal technology, to deal with what the president believes is a problem in the short term.

But as for lifestyles, the administration believes there's reason so many Americans are buying gas-guzzling SUVs and buying minivans -- because they like them.

And the administration's view is that when people buy those, they know that they're going to be paying more for gas and they're not prepared for any giant conservation measures. And if the administration proposed them, that there would be more of a political backlash than taking the stance you saw Ari Fleischer take today and saying that one of the things these people have been told as they prepare this report: "Don't crimp in on people's lifestyles."

BLITZER: John King at the White House, thank you very much.

A little later in our program, we'll have more on the nation's energy crisis. Former Congressman Joe Kennedy will face off with the Cato Institute's Jerry Taylor. And energy will be just one of the topics when our own John King interviews the vice president, Dick Cheney. That's live on CNN, tomorrow, 10:45 a.m. Eastern, 7:45 a.m. Pacific

In other news: a month after an unarmed African-American was shot dead by a white Cincinnati policeman, a grand jury has now spoken. Officer Stephen Roach was indicted on misdemeanors, negligent homicide and obstruction of official business.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL ALLEN, HAMILTON COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Not every homicide is a purposeful act. Not every homicide constitutes murder. Some are reckless in nature, some of are negligent in nature, and I think the grand jury felt, obviously, that if anything, this was a negligent act.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: 19-year-old Timothy Thomas was shot April 1. He was wanted on 14 charges and had been fleeing from police at the time of his death. His mother tonight reacted with disappointment to the grand jury indictment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANGELA LEISURE, VICTIM'S MOTHER: It was slap on the wrist. It was -- I don't feel like -- my personal opinion, I don't feel like justice was served.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The shooting sparked four days of violent protests that led to a curfew and resulted in hundreds of arrests. Dozens of buildings were looted and burned.

For more on the grand jury's action, let's go live to Cincinnati and CNN national correspondent Bob Franken. Bob, as best as you can tell, what's happening right now in the streets of Cincinnati?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, over my shoulder, Wolf, you could see, in fact, the demonstrators who are leaving the police department of Cincinnati, probably a group of 100 or so who were parading around the police department. No violence, nothing like that, but the police responded by putting up barricades and calling out the mounted police.

It happened just seconds ago. What's been going on since the grand jury announcement a couple of hours ago has been sporadic confrontation. There would be groups of demonstrators who are walking down the street, they're met by heavily armed, riot-gear-wearing police, very similar to what occurred a month ago after the shooting of 19-year-old Timothy Thomas, they will, in fact, confront the demonstrators, the demonstrators will move in, and there will be no incident.

Now, all of this was, of course, was all pre-planned. The police, in fact, came up with heavy preparation after knowing that the grand jury was going to come out with its announcement. As everybody expected, members of the African-American community, many were angry, others were disappointed, saying that the decisions that were made by the grand jury were inadequate.

They're decisions that allow for only nine months of prison for Officer Stephen Roach who was charged with, in fact -- who was charged with shooting and killing an unarmed 19-year-old black man about a month ago. Not about a month ago, specifically.

Now, what we are looking -- if you look to our -- to your right over here is the return of that group of demonstrators. They're marching along by the police department, all very peaceful. The police department is, in fact, setting up right in back of us. You could see the officers that are basically coming along right in back of us, going to prevent, as they did before, any sort of march downtown.

So right now, we have the beginnings of a confrontation here. I emphasize that thus far, everything has been peaceful -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Bob Franken in Cincinnati. And of course, Bob will be continuing to monitor developments on the streets of Cincinnati.

In West Palm Beach, Florida, meanwhile, prosecutors are expected to call their final witness tomorrow in the case of a 14-year-old accused of killing his teacher. Today, they showed crucial evidence in hopes of bolstering their case.

CNN's Mark Potter reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prosecutors showed the jury Nathaniel Brazill's statement to police after shooting his teacher, Barry Grunow. On tape, he said the killing was not premeditated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "POLICE TAPE")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you plan on shooting Mr. Grunow?

NATHANIEL BRAZILL, DEFENDANT: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you plan on shooting anybody?

BRAZILL: Uh-uh, me and Mr. Grunow, we were like good friends. I was friends with a lot of my teachers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You just got mad?

BRAZILL: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POTTER: The prosecution claims Nathaniel shot Grunow because he was angry over failing his class and being suspended from school.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "POLICE TAPE")

BRAZILL: I think I pulled out the gun, I was like checking the lock, I was already holding it, and I was fixing to drop it, and I didn't know what was going to happen if I would have dropped it. It all went from there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POTTER: Firearms experts testified about whether Nathaniel's handgun could have fired unintentionally.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have an opinion, based on your examination of this firearm, whether or not it can go off on its own, just by someone holding it in their hand and possibly shaking it without touching the trigger?

CARLO ROSATI, FBI FIREARMS EXPERT: No, sir, it cannot do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POTTER: But a defense witness disagreed, saying Nathaniel's gun could fire accidentally. LAMA MARTIN, FIREARMS EXPERT: Now, I know that people, all types of people, even law enforcement people, who are trained to handle guns, have unintentional firings with guns with this type of trigger pull.

POTTER (on camera): The prosecution's case is winding down, and soon the defense will have its chance to try to convince the jury that Nathaniel Brazill committed a terrible mistake, not first-degree murder.

Mark Potter, CNN, West Palm Beach, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Up next: will more conservation or less regulation ease your aggravation at the gas pump? We'll debate the energy crunch with former Congressman Joe Kennedy of Citizens Energy and Jerry Taylor of the Cato Institute. And later, the United States resumes its aerial surveillance along the Chinese coast. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Record prices at the gas pump, more blackout warnings in California, and the prospect of longer-term energy shortages. My two guests have very different views about how to deal with the problem.

Joining me here in Washington, Jerry Taylor, director of natural resource studies at the Cato Institute, and from Miami, former Congressman Joe Kennedy, chairman of Citizens Energy, a nonprofit corporation.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for joining us.

And Congressman Kennedy, let me start with you. The vice president said last week what many say was not really a remarkable statement, although he was criticized sharply for it, that conservation alone is not the answer. A lot of other answers. What's wrong with that position?

JOE KENNEDY, CHAIRMAN, CITIZENS ENERGY: Well, I think basically what's wrong with the position is just simply that in Dick Cheney's mind, evidently, and I guess President Bush as well conservation means being cold in the winter and hot in summer.

I started two of the most successful energy conservation companies in this country, and neither one of them, would anyone who lived in one of those buildings even know that there was energy conservation measures involved.

You have very sophisticated chillers, burners, boilers, computer systems, insulation, all sorts of things that save dramatic amounts of energy, Wolf, up to 40 percent of what a building uses. And no one inside the building will ever know the difference other than the fact that in all likelihood they'll probably be cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter. BLITZER: Yet, Jerry Tailor, a lot of scientists are saying that conservation is, in fact, the answer, that that can solve America's energy crisis.

JERRY TAYLOR, CATO INSTITUTE: Well, conservation can certainly cut down on energy consumption. When prices go up, people use less. Last year, for example, when gasoline prices skyrocketed in the United States we saw the first reduction in the amount of gasoline consumed by motorists in a nonrecession year in history. So people respond to prices. There's no mystery there.

The problem is that California and some other places are subsidizing energy use. In California, for example, electricity rate payers are only paying half the price, the market price for electricity. The state's picking up the other half. It's no surprise that when you subsidize electricity use during a shortage, you're going to get even a worse shortage. And that's the real problem right now.

BLITZER: What about that, Congressman Kennedy?

KENNEDY: Well, I mean, I think last year the entire state of California, every single human being in the state, spent about between 7 and 8 billion dollars on the cost of electricity. This year the estimates are that they'll be spending between 70 and 80 billion dollars on the cost of electricity.

This is not -- I mean, the notion that the market works in the energy business is just a foolish notion. OPEC is not a free market. These are people that are looking to jack up the prices, hurt the American consumer in order to line their own pockets. That's how it works. And to think other than that is just sticking your head in the sand.

BLITZER: Jerry Taylor, a lot of people believe that, that the markets simply don't play the normal role when it comes to the price of gasoline.

TAYLOR: Well, markets certainly don't plan an appropriate role in energy, Wolf, when you've got price controls. We've got wholesale price controls in California. You've got retail price controls in California.

KENNEDY: Hey, Jerry...

TAYLOR: If you have price controls on apartments in New York, they disappear. You put price controls on break in Cuba, bread disappears. You put price controls on shoes in Cuba, shoes are going to disappear, too. And then you go back and blame the marketplace, that's silly.

KENNEDY: Hey, Jerry, do you think that -- do you think that OPEC puts in price controls?

TAYLOR: Well, look, OPEC obviously tries to manipulate production. But if you're in favor of additional energy conservation...

KENNEDY: Well, no, no, wait. No, no, wait a minute.

TAYLOR: ... you should not consider it a problem when energy prices go up, because it's the only way people ever reduce their energy consumption.

KENNEDY: Well, I mean, that's blaming the victim here. I mean, the fact of the matter...

TAYLOR: I'm not blaming any victim.

KENNEDY: Well, I mean, of course, you are.

TAYLOR: I'm just simply saying people aren't going to cut back on energy use unless prices go up, Joe. That's economics 101. If prices go down, people consume more. If prices go up, people consume less. You don't even need a government program to see it through.

KENNEDY: But why -- why do we want to have high energy prices? I would think that we'd be much better off with a very simple energy policy in the United States of America, which is cheaper is better. If we...

TAYLOR: If energy is scarce, you need to have high prices, Joe, or it's going to run out.

KENNEDY: Well, that's your position...

(CROSSTALK)

That's certainly not my position. You want...

TAYLOR: If energy is -- Joe, if energy is scarce and prices are low, it will run out. You'll get blackouts in California.

KENNEDY: I think you have really stated so clearly the Bush administration's energy policy, which is higher prices means better policy. Certainly, if you run a normal oil company, not mine, but if you run a normal oil company, that's what you believe. If you run an electricity company, that's what you believe. If you run a natural gas company, that's what you believe. And those are the three entities that are setting energy policy in this country.

If you are a consumer, on the other hand, you much prefer having cheaper prices, and I happen to run an organization that is very interested in trying to keep the cost of energy down as cheap as possible for very vulnerable people in this country.

BLITZER: You know, let me -- let me interrupt both of you for a second. A lot of people are worried about the prospect here in the United States of $3 a gallon gasoline. Jerry Taylor, if you take a look at some of the other prices -- and I'll put them up on our screen right now -- take a look at what the prices are: in Britain, over $4 a gallon; in the Netherlands, over $4. Here in the United States, right now, about $1.80 on the average. The price of gasoline is still cheap here in the United States, and even at $3 it would be cheap, wouldn't it?

TAYLOR: Compared to Europe it would be, because the government doesn't tax us into the dirt like they do in Europe. I mean, those prices are the result of high taxes.

If you adjust for inflation even, prices in 1981 in the United States, in today's dollars, were $2.50 a gallon. So even today, our high prices still don't compare to what they were in the early 1980s.

BLITZER: Congressman Kennedy, is the price of gasoline too expensive in the United States right now?

KENNEDY: Well, I mean, it's too expensive, Wolf, in comparison to what people in this country have come to believe is a fair price of a gallon of gasoline. I mean, the fact of the matter is you take a $36 barrel of crude oil, run it through a refinery, break it down from everything from gasoline to Vaseline, sell off the products. The fact of the matter is you're going to see gasoline prices that are going to come in at about half of what they are charging the American people today. And a lot of that additional pricing comes as a result of environmental and other -- and price-gouging that's taking place in the market today.

So, I mean, I think that if -- the reason why the Europeans pay so much, as Jerry just indicated, s because they tax their energy in way that we find unacceptable in this country. I think we have a different tax policy than an energy policy, and I think we ought to keep the two issues separate in order to get good, clean energy policy that is cheaper for ordinary people.

BLITZER: Unfortunately, gentlemen, we have to leave it right there. We're going to continue this discussion on several upcoming opportunities because the energy crisis doesn't seem to be going away. Joe Kennedy, Jerry Taylor, thanks to both of you for joining us.

TAYLOR: Thank you, Wolf.

KENNEDY: Thanks.

BLITZER: And up next, weapons and anti-aircraft missiles are found aboard a small boat. We'll tell you where that discovery was made. And we'll tell why feeding your child fruit juice may be doing more harm than good.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. In other news tonight, Israel has seized a boat carrying an array of weapons it says was headed to Palestinian forces in Gaza. The vessel, spotted off Northern Israel, is said to have been transporting rockets, missiles and bombs from Lebanon. Palestinian officials deny any connection with the shipment.

Bitter fighting between the two sides intensified today. Israeli tanks fired on a Palestinian refugee camp in Gaza, killing a 4-month- old girl and injuring 25 others. Israeli officials say the assault was in response to a Palestinian mortar attack on a nearby Jewish settlement.

A U.S. air force jet, similar to this one, resumed surveillance flights along China's coast today for the first time since last month's fatal collision between a Navy aircraft and Chinese fighter jet. The RC-135 plane followed a northern path away from Hainan Island, unarmed and unescorted. The mission drew no response from China, which has demanded an end to such flights.

Tonight on "The Leading Edge": a cyberwar triggered by the United States and China conflict is intensifying. The latest victim, the Web site of a television station in Tulsa, Oklahoma. A group of Chinese hackers replaced the station's menu of news with anti-American messages and images.

Important news tonight for parents about children and fruit juice. The American Academy of Pediatrics is recommending that infants under six months not be given juice, and children under seven should drink no more than six ounces daily. The academy says high amounts of sugar in the juice can cause obesity and cavities.

Up next, I'll open our mailbag. One of you wonders whether it's still possible to have another Kennedy in the White House. We'll tell you which one next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back. Time now to open our mailbag. Lots of you wrote about the indictment of Congressman James Traficant. R. Davis from Youngstown, Ohio, writers: "Jim Traficant is my U.S. representative. The reason so many voters have kept him in office through the years is because he is outspoken, and isn't the normal, spineless Democrat."

But Frederick has a different perspective: "From your news report today, it sounds to me like you were trying to defend James Traficant. Serving one's ninth term as a congressman is no indication of one's worth. Our government is full of incompetents."

Elmore liked my interview with Senator Edward Kennedy: "I cannot help but wonder if he still has aspirations to be president, especially considering that he has the name recognition, remains outspoken on major issues, and still has a network of loyal supporters to draw upon. At least a Kennedy versus Bush match-up in 2004 would be quite exciting."

Remember, I want to hear from you. You can e-mail me at wolf@cnn.com, and you can read my daily online column and sign up for my e-mail previewing our nightly programs by going to our WOLF BLITZER REPORTS Web site, cnn.com/wolf.

Please stay with CNN throughout the night. Regis Philbin is Larry King's guest at the top of the hour. Up next, Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by to tell us what she has -- Greta. GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT": Wolf, 1996, a terrible bombing in Saudi Arabia left 19 American soldiers dead. Does departing Director Freeh know who did it? Well, Elsa Walsh of "The New Yorker" has written a new article. She joins us to tell us about it.

Plus, Cincinnati, two indictments. The prosecutor will be joining us to tell us about those two charges. And finally, the militia movement: Is it on the decline? Is it old? We'll talk about that.

BLITZER: Thanks, Greta. Sounds good. Tomorrow night, the House of Representatives gets ready to vote on President Bush's budget and tax cut plans. We'll have the latest. Until then, thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.

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