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CNN Talkback Live

Governor Gives Birth: Motherhood, Pregnancy and Politics

Aired May 16, 2001 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Jane Swift and her husband are pleased tonight to announce the birth of their twin girls.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBIE BATTISTA, HOST: With two new babies in the house, the governor of Massachusetts plans to keep her day job. The critics are crowing, but are the times changing faster than attitudes?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHYLLIS SCHLAFLY, EAGLE FORUM: I would rather be looking after my twins than running the state, but then these are choices that people make, and I think it would be very difficult to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELLEN MORPHONIOUS, RETIRED JUDGE: I think it's nonsense. The lady is having babies. She is not dying of terminal cancer. We live not in the "Little House On The Prairie." We live in modern electronic age.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BATTISTA: The governor of Rhode Island worked from his hospital bed. So what's different in this case? Is there a double standard for women in politics?

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to TALKBACK LIVE.

The stork delivered twins and a lot of controversy to the Massachusetts governor. Her hospitalization during pregnancy had some asking whether she could still do her job, and some are still asking that. Joining us first today, Candy Straight, a friend of the governor's, and president of the Wish List, a group that works to elect female candidates who support abortion rights. Candy, thanks for joining us.

CANDY STRAIGHT, PRESIDENT, THE WISH LIST: Good afternoon.

BATTISTA: First question: I assume that the governor is doing well and the twins.

STRAIGHT: Yes she is. I received a call last night from one of HER staff members who said that she and the twins are doing very well.

BATTISTA: And as I understand it, she will now telecommute from home for about six to eight weeks, is that correct? How is that going to work for her?

STRAIGHT: That is correct. In fact, she called in this morning and participated on a staff meeting by telephone.

BATTISTA: And how does that work, though? How does that alter the power structure there in the state of Massachusetts?

STRAIGHT: Well, I don't think it alters it at all. Jane has been lieutenant governor. She's been a state senator. She is really experienced to do this job, and she is just an individual that will have to do it via telephone call and conference call meetings instead of being in person for the next, as you said next, six to eight weeks.

BATTISTA: So, where is all this criticism coming from?

STRAIGHT: I really don't understand it. I mean, I have a business. I was on two conference calls this morning and we conducted our business very satisfactorily.

BATTISTA: Do we have Kevin with us yet, you guys? We do? Kevin, can you hear me, from Birmingham? Kevin?

KEVIN MILLER, WERC RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes.

BATTISTA: OK, good. We were getting your audio hooked up there and you were having a little bit of trouble, but I think you're OK.

MILLER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in a dream, Bobbie.

BATTISTA: All right, from Birmingham, radio talk show host Kevin Miller joins us. And Kevin, I just asked Candy a few minutes ago where all the criticism is coming from. She, of course, is not understanding it. What is your problem with this?

MILLER: I think the problem here, Bobbie, is that we have a great divide, a great cultural divide in America about women that want to have it all, people that want to have it all. In Governor Swift's case it seems to be materialism over maternalism. I mean which do we devalue, motherhood, or the governorship of Massachusetts?

BATTISTA: Hold on, Kevin. I'm sorry, I have to interrupt and go to Joie on the news desk -- Joie.

(INTERRUPTED FOR BREAKING NEWS)

BATTISTA: All right, Joie, thanks very much. I'm sorry, Kevin. I interrupted you there right in the middle of you telling us what your objections are to the governor of Massachusetts trying to be a mom and a governor at the same time. MILLER: Well, I think it devalues either one thing or the other: motherhood or the governorship of Massachusetts, Bobbie. The bottom line here is being a governor, the head of state is a really intense job. Now Governor Swift, she's nice. She's a nice lady, has beautiful children and we should be very thankful that they're grown and healthy -- or have been given birth and healthy.

The bottom line here though is, which do we devalue? Do we devalue motherhood or the governorship of Massachusetts? That's not what people at the politically correct Politburo, that will make -- dub her the new princess. Again, the people of Massachusetts elected Paul Salucci. He decided to become ambassador to something. Did they really -- are the taxpayers of Massachusetts, a state I'm very familiar with, getting what they paid for?

BATTISTA: Candy, go ahead.

STRAIGHT: I totally disagree. First of all, the people of Massachusetts, four years ago, elected the Cellucci-Swift team. She was elected as lieutenant governor. Although I'm sure Governor Cellucci did not expect that the lieutenant governor will step up and be the governor. In fact, when Jane was running for lieutenant governor, she was pregnant with her first child, Elizabeth. And she the baby about a month before election, and the voters picked the Cellucci-Swift team.

MILLER: See, the problem, though, is Governor Swift has already been busted, if you will, for having state staff members -- staff members paid by taxpayers -- babysitting. And the first thing Governor Swift said is: Well, I'm a mother, and how dare anyone question my ability to have my staff be my babysitters.

Only when the press -- God bless the fourth estate -- decided to smash that down, to give some coverage, then the next day the governor was: Well, I'm just trying it. I'm going to use private funds, and I'm going to do everything I can.

Now we're led to believe that a woman that couldn't handle one child and be lieutenant governor, can handle three children and be governor? The truth is, the people of Massachusetts are questioning her leadership. The bottom line is, she better worry about Mitt Romney and a possible Republican challenge in primary this fall.

BATTISTA: You know, a lot of the criticism, Kevin, that came up of the governor, was actually before she had -- it's almost two issues we're talking about here. We have the after-the-children issue, and raising them. But before that, there was a lot of criticism from Democrats up in Massachusetts about her ability to run the office during, say, her last month of pregnancy, in which she was confined to a hospital bed, and the babies came early.

What was that all about? How is that any different from a governor of Rhode Island, for example, who had prostrate cancer, and had to run the state his bed for five weeks?

MILLER: That's a very good question, Bobbie. I think the big question here is priorities. And if Governor Swift really wants to do something for the people of Massachusetts -- really wants to do something for motherhood -- I mean, motherhood is such a unique blessing. Why devalue it? Step down, don't seek reelection, and spend time with your children. But, no, it's the message that we have all today. Women want to have it all. Men want to have it all. It's materialism over maternalism. That is the problem, Bobbie, a lack of priorities.

And if Government Swift keeps doing it, it's just going to permeate more and more. We've got to schedule the day care in between the dance lessons, in between all these other lessons. Where is the quality time? Are you telling me, Bobbie, that the governor is going to have actual time to spend with her children and dedicate herself to running the state?

BATTISTA: Well, Candy, there is a husband involved here, who is evidently a house husband, correct?

STRAIGHT: Correct. And the other thing is -- I believe Mr. Miller is degrading all women and men who work. Women and men who work have children. Some of them are single parents, some are not. Some have parents that stay home, sometimes both work. And it's not degrading to them to hold a job. Many of them have very demanding jobs and they're wonderful puts. Jane does have a demanding job. She has a wonderful husband, and I am confident that they will be terrific parents.

MILLER: You mean -- I thought she was a wonderful wife. The bottom line here is there are many people that have put a value a parenthood, and decide that one will stay home, whether it's the mother or not. I mean, Bobbie, the last time I was on we heard this argument: single parent this, dual families that. The bottom line here is, America was a lot better off 30 years ago, when people put priorities on their children and not on their careers, political or whatever.

BATTISTA: I have to take a quick break, here. When we come back, is there a double standard for women in politics? Vote on-line at cnn.com/talkback, AOL keyword CNN. We'll get your answers a bit later on in the show. When we come back: Do voters hold female candidates to a different standard? The results of a study may surprise you, so stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Let's get some reaction here. E-mails...

F.M. in Pensacola says: "Hooray for the lady governor. Why shouldn't she give birth while in office? Presidents and Congressmen go into the office while in office and have surgery. What's the difference?"

Susan in Ohio says: "Children deserve a mother who is available to them 100 percent of the time. Massachusetts deserves a governor who is available 100 percent of the time. When women try to have it all, someone or something has to get shortchanged. Both children and the governorship deserve better than that."

And Saio in the audience.

SAIO: Yes, again, as I said during the break, I just believe that the people of Massachusetts have bigger problems than to worry about their governor, in terms of her having twins. I do think she can have it all. And I do think it's OK for her to have twins while she's in office, if they can handle the job. And furthermore, it's really none of our business whether or not her children are in day care, or are being babysitting services or whatever. I think she can handle it.

(APPLAUSE)

BATTISTA: Kevin?

MILLER: Actually, it is our business, because there was a big investigation in the state of Massachusetts that she was misappropriating taxpayer funds. She had members of her staff taking care of her children. That is not what they are paid to do. They are paid to be public servants for the citizens of Massachusetts. That might not be the most politically correct thing to say, but that is the law.

She even admitted, a day after she arrogantly said: Well, I'm a mother and how dare anyone question?

Well, where is this arrogance? She's a public servant. She should serve the public. The state of Massachusetts, God bless it, needs all the help it can get. It deserves a full-time governor.

BATTISTA: She did apologize for that, though, for that, did she not?

MILLER: After she was caught. After she saw and heard on radio stations across the state, and read the editorials. If she had real regret, Bobbie, why didn't she do it to begin with? And why did she even use state employees? Isn't that a conflict of interest? Don't we have problems with politicians now? Just the appearance of a conflict of interest destroys credibility.

BATTISTA: Let me take a quick phone call from Massachusetts. David, go ahead.

CALLER: Hi, Bobbie.

BATTISTA: Hi.

CALLER: I believe a lot of the people that are speaking out are particularly the Democrats, and they're trying to make the governor look bad. And I'm a Democrat, and I voted for Cellucci and Swift, and I think she's done a good job, and I see no reason why she can't run -- do her business from her hospital bed, just like the governor in Rhode Island has done.

BATTISTA: Thanks very much, David. It's kind of interesting, actually, the criticism that she's getting in the state was from Democrats. From out of the state, it seems to be from more conservative or Republican types.

Joining the debate now from Boston is philanthropist Barbara Lee. Her foundation recently commissioned a report on the hurdles that women gubernatorial candidates face.

Barbara, thank for joining us.

BARBARA LEE, PHILANTHROPIST: Thank you so much.

BATTISTA: If you could, tell us about the key findings that you came upon in this report?

LEE: What we found is very interesting. Women are such nontraditional candidates that they need to go up the ranks and achieve executive positions in a way that men don't have to. Our research show that woman who are either lieutenant governor, or treasurer, or secretary of state, polled 20 points higher than women who are either in a state legislature or a big city mayor.

BATTISTA: And what about the issues of parenting and family life? How did those factor in when it was a woman gubernatorial candidate or a male?

LEE: We absolutely found that families are very interested in the families of voters. In other words, the women who run for office need to be able to show that they can relate to the issues that are facing families and -- with work and with their home lives. What we found also, is that men also need to be married, and voters prefer men to have smaller children. I think it gives them a more personal touch. And with women, voters prefer for them to have older children.

BATTISTA: So what do you make of all the criticism of Governor Swift?

LEE: I think that sexism is alive and well. And again, we have to do so much to break down old barriers. Women have been juggling family and work forever. Forever. And women who are in leadership positions need to find a way to show, again, that voters -- that they can relate to their needs.

BATTISTA: Couple of e-mails here: Patty in Plymouth, Mass., says: "As governor, Swift has a duty and a responsibility to the state of Massachusetts. Relinquishing some of her authority is not a punishment for her choice to have children. But it is about doing what is in the best interest of the state, regardless of her personal interest."

I'm curious about that, Candy. During the time that she was in the hospital -- you know, my sister had twins last year, and I know the last month of a twins pregnancy is a really rough one, and can be. And then the time that she went in her cesarean, a lot of people may have wondered why she didn't, at least for that period of time, relinquish, temporarily, her authority. I mean, why wouldn't most politicians do that if they're going in for some sort of operation, for the good of the state?

STRAIGHT: Well, again, I think if Jane had been incapacitated for a long period of time, she'd have to consider that. But she wasn't. And when you, again, give the example of the governor of Rhode Island, I believe that he was probably more incapacitated than Jane was, and he didn't give up. So it's an individual decision you have to make. And I'm sure Jane was willing to make that decision, if it was necessary. It has not been necessary.

And I'd also like to add that the gentlemen from Alabama has been talking about when she had some staff members babysit her daughter, Elizabeth. That was two years ago. Jane said she made a mistake. She paid a $1,200 fine, and I say let's get on with it. Everybody makes mistakes. Jane admitted she had made a mistake.

MILLER: Well, that's all fine and dandy, but the bottom line here is there is a pattern of behavior here. And the bottom line -- another thing we're talking about is the idea of sexism. And I love how my friends from across the country are talking about sexism and how women have it tough.

Let's talk about one of the most successful female governors to the north of Massachusetts, Jeanne Shaheen. I was there when Jeanne Shaheen was running for governor, replacing Steve Merrill of New Hampshire, and she played the card beautifully. She was ladylike, she was tough. And if somebody asked her a tough question, then they were sexist. It was OK for Jeanne Shaheen to attack. It was OK for Jeanne Shaheen to go on the offensive, but when somebody treated her fairly, it was sexist.

That is the problem in political rooms across the country. Courthouses, state legislatures, and there's not a man in America that won't agree with me when I say that. The bottom line is there's a double standard and it favors women in our country.

BATTISTA: Barbara?

LEE: Again, what we found in this study, is that women are -- not only have to be qualified, they also need to show toughness in a way that voters can understand and voters find comfortable. So, as Kathleen Hall Jamieson, who is the dean of the Annenberg School of Communications, says, "Women need to speak softly and carry a big statistic."

(LAUGHTER)

BATTISTA: OK, to the audience. And, Pat, what are your thoughts?

PAT: To Kevin, and I guess, just in general, something will give. Something has to. But it's her choice. It's her choice. If she wants to send her kids up for adoption, that's up to her. And you have no right to tell her what she can or cannot do, as long as she's not breaking the law. If she's breaking the law, which, she already -- I guess she was tip-toeing on the line. She apologized for it. It's over. No one has a right to tell her what to do. If she's knocked out with anesthesia, fine.

MILLER: She paid a fine for that. And I just go back to what Bobbie was talking about, about her relatives that had twins, and how stressful that was. Let's face it, where are the priorities? If she is a public servant, if she cares about the people of Massachusetts, then step down and make your children your priority.

Well, if you do that, then you're not on the cover of "People" magazine, you're not on TALKBACK LIVE, you're not the focus of attention. And if you truly care, devote yourself to one or the other, not both. It's not fair to your children and it's not fair to the people of Massachusetts.

BATTISTA: You know what? I have some children in the audience. So I'm going to go to them because they have opinions on this. Sean, go ahead.

SEAN: To Kevin and all the people that disagree with what she's doing, I think that she knows her limits better than anybody else does, because she's been hired for a long time and she knows what she can do. And if she thinks she can handle being a mother and governing the state of Massachusetts, I think she can do it.

(APPLAUSE)

MILLER: That was a good point.

BATTISTA: Sean, thanks very much. All right. We will take a quick break here and continue in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Jane Swift's approval rating, according to "Boston Herald" polls, has been steadily rising. In December of last year, 20 percent of Massachusetts residents liked her work. That number rose to 31 percent in February and hit 41 percent last month.

All right. We had to say goodbye and our thanks to Barbara Lee during the break. We appreciate the information she gave us from her study there.

Couple of e-mails: Timothy in Oak Harbor says: "Who deserves her full attention? Her newborns or the voters who pay her?"

Steve in Los Angeles says: "I think any woman can hold any job they want. I'm a house husband for our third child and my wife is teacher. Is she any less of a teacher?"

And Susan says: "I certainly hope that Rhode Island doesn't decide to invade Massachusetts while Governor Swift is on maternity leave."

Jeanne on the phone in Georgia -- go ahead.

JEANNE: Yes, I think that she needs to be home with the children. And let the man handle the job as it was meant for us to. I think our children were much better off -- the mother stayed home with the children.

BATTISTA: All right, Jeanne, thanks. Kevin, you were nodding your head and applauding.

MILLER: I was applauding.

BATTISTA: And the audience was groaning.

MILLER: I think that's a great -- a great idea. You look at what happened to America. Was the whole idea of people putting a priority besides their family's a success? I think our family structure as a whole was better off 30 years ago than it is today. I mean...

BATTISTA: Although you realize that the latest study says that parents are actually spending more time with their kids today than they were 20 years ago.

MILLER: Then there's another study that came out yesterday that said there are more single people than married people with children. Is that really good for the long-term effects of our society, Bobbie?

BATTISTA: Leave that as a rhetorical question or a future TALKBACK.

(LAUGHTER)

Right, Kevin, because I've got to let you go, we're going to lose the satellite.

MILLER: OK, thank you.

BATTISTA: Thanks very much for joining us -- appreciate it. Our next guest is Jim Braude. He is co-host of "The Egan and Braude Show" on WTTK radio station in Boston. Thank you very much for joining us. Now you, Jim, say...

JIM BRAUDE, "EGAN AND BRAUDE SHOW": Thanks, Bobbie.

BATTISTA: You say this is not really about all women. This is about Jane Swift.

BRAUDE: Exactly. You know, the sense you get is the fate of all womanhood, Bobbie, is hanging in the balance. It's not as if Jane Swift failed and no woman could succeed or vice versa. It's not about every woman. It's about Jane Swift and the question is: Can she balance three young kids and a job of this importance? And the answer, based on history, is no.

BATTISTA: What do you mean by based on history?

BRAUDE: Well, look at this. I mean, she had a job prior to this lieutenant governor with virtually no responsibilities and one young child, and her term there was an endless string of ethical lapses, legislative non-accomplishments. And now what happens: We triple the number of kids, increase hugely the responsibility, and we're supposed to believe she could do it under those circumstances?

BATTISTA: Are you saying that those...

BRAUDE: Any sane person would say she can't.

BATTISTA: Are you saying that those ethical lapses or the problems that she has had as lieutenant governor were due to the fact, though, that she was a mother. I mean, were her attentions so divided between the kids and her job responsibilities and that's what caused these things?

BRAUDE: Bobbie -- Bobbie, it wasn't somebody else's kids who were being babysit by state employees. It wasn't somebody else's kid that she took a state helicopter to get home to see. It was about her children. She has a history of not being able to balance the obligations of one child in a no-show job, which is what essentially what lieutenant governor is,

I think the reality is that the best thing she could have done when she got into this job, through no fault of her, is to say, "This is not the time for me. Maybe I will get back in politics in the future, but the time ain't now."

BATTISTA: Candy, you've known her for seven years. Go ahead.

STRAIGHT: Yes, I'd like to disagree. No. 1, what we're talking about is a Cellucci-Swift team. Jane has been totally involved in the administration from day one. They worked together as a team. Before that, she was a state senator. She was in, I believe, Governor Wells' Cabinet. So, she's totally -- been totally involved.

I think they've had a very successful administration. We have to remember in Massachusetts there are many more registered Democrats than there are Republicans. So there is going to be partisan barbs from time to time. That is the nature of politics. Jane is fully competent to do this job. And I believe she will be a terrific mother for her three daughters, and she has a wonderful husband. And when you're governor -- when you're lieutenant governor, you're going to be in the spotlight and everything is going to be magnified. And I think when you look at the totality of what Jane will have done, and what she's done over the last two years, I believe that the people will want to re-elect Jane Swift.

BATTISTA: Well, Jim...

BRAUDE: Bobbie...

BATTISTA: ... her approval ratings have doubled since she was lieutenant governor, isn't that correct?

BRAUDE: No, they've doubled since she became pregnant and since everybody started swooning over these two young children on the way. The woman who spoke, spoke about her record as lieutenant governor, the co-governor. Let's look at two things she cared about Bobbie: She was the education czarena as lieutenant governor. Along with the governor, she vetoed $94 million of education funding. And to show it's not partisan, every single member of the legislature, Republican and Democrat, overwrote her veto.

She says she wants to be family-friendly. She stopped Massachusetts from being the first state in the country which would allow workers who stay home to take care of a sick parent or child to get some compensation from the unemployment trust fund. Her -- she does have a record, sadly, the record is abysmal.

BATTISTA: Well, I'm guessing that paid maternity leave is an issue that may come up again in the state of Massachusetts, wouldn't you under the circumstances?

BRAUDE: Yeah, but Bobbie -- but yes, you would. Let me tell you something: talk about double standards. She's about to go home in five days from the hospital, call the office, according to her spokesperson, two times a day while she's taking care of her kids. She's not taking maternity leave like every other woman has to. She's not taking sick leave. She's not going on disability. She is staying on full pay because Jane Swift's attitude from day one is: She's the governor. She's the lieutenant governor and let everybody else be damned.

BATTISTA: Let me go to the audience again. Harry, what do you think.

HARRY: Well, you know, in this country any time we want to prove something we do a poll. And if we want to prove something is one way, then we do a poll so the study comes out that way or the opposite way. And I think you can come up with a poll that does just about anything you want to. This really -- no significant difference between how a child gets raised, I don't think, according to some polls. If he's raised in a day-care center or if he's raised at home or which parent stays home with that child. I don't think anybody can say one way is any better than the other. The bottom line: She's a politician. She has to be held accountable for what she does as a politician.

Democrats are going to say she does a lousy job, Republicans are going to say she does a great job, but she's still just a politician.

BATTISTA: Well, you know what, Jim, it was interesting that there was a big outcry from the Democrats over this whole thing and then they suspiciously got very quiet. Did they...

BRAUDE: My fellow Democrats acted like little children. Their behavior about Jane Swift on a speaker phone was abysmal and childish and they should have kept their mouth shut, which they are now doing. And, now Bobbie, they're falling over each other just saying how happy they are that Jane Swift is the mother of two healthy young kids. And I'm assume they are, but they shouldn't have said what they said to begin with.

BATTISTA: Mark on the phone from California -- Mark.

MARK: Yes, I can't believe we're even having this discussion. I live in California, and we've seen how good these governors and politicians out here do, without having twins to raise. It's not like she's in there with something very wrong with her head or something. She's in there -- she's in the hospital to have twins, and we wouldn't even be having this discussion if this was a man. If he was laid up with a bum leg from snow skiing it would be no big deal.

This guy from Alabama comes on and makes personal attacks against her -- she paid a fine or whatever. She can do the job from home. I saw something earlier, some guy said this is not "Little House on the Prairie." I simply cannot believe that we're having this conversation.

BATTISTA: Jim, what sort of reaction are you getting -- I mean, how do the voters -- well, I should say your listeners, at any rate, feel about this?

BRAUDE: I think the closer the babies came to term, the more sympathetic Jane -- the people became to Jane Swift. Which I think is unfortunate. They should judge her on her performance, not on her motherhood. And my assumption is, her numbers are going to look like Persian Gulf numbers for George Bush by the time she takes these kids home. But, Bobbie, if I could just say to the gentleman you spoke to, we wouldn't be saying this about a man or someone who broke a leg. Well, the leg heals at some point, you go back to work. You can ask my mother, pregnancy and having a kid is a permanent condition. And the question, based upon history, is can she be the parent to young children and do the job? Some women clearly can. This woman clearly can't.

BATTISTA: Carol, in the audience.

CAROL: He doesn't like her. It doesn't matter what he -- she does is. It's not going to be right.

(LAUGHTER)

BATTISTA: Jim has -- you have problems with her politically is what you're saying?

BRAUDE: I -- I personally like her, the few times I met her. I do have problems with her politically, but that's not what this is about. What this is about is looking at the record and as I say, the record is not one I would be bragging about.

BATTISTA: Candy, do you want jump in on this and how the pregnancy affects her? Yeah.

STRAIGHT: Let me say, I believe Jane is very proud of her record. You are going to have differences of opinion on issues. It will be up to the voters to decide. I think she will be an excellent governor. And you -- you're going to have differences of opinion. Let her record stand. I mean, that's what politicians -- politicians, if they are elected every two year, every four years, the voters decide. And I think, let's give Jane a chance to be governor. Let's have an open mind, and I hope she will run for governor next year.

The election is next year. She hasn't totally made up her mind yet. I hope she will. And the voters will get a chance to decide whether they want to keep Jane in office or elect a new person.

BATTISTA: All right, I've got to take a quick break. We will be back in just a moment.

Seventy-two women serve in the U.S. Congress, 13 in the Senate and 59 in the House of Representatives. That's an all-time high for both. There are five women state governors.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Jim, how long do you think that this issue is going to dog the governor?

BRAUDE: I think quite a while. Despite the fact that the governor said she doesn't want to be judged based upon the fact that she has young kids, you know, she goes on national television to say it. I think if she's as smart as many people say she is, she will milk this for everything it is worth. So, I guess it will be with us, I would argue, for months.

BATTISTA: Let me toss, quickly here, to Birmingham Women's Hospital in Boston, where the governor's spokesperson is talking with the press.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

JASON KAUPPI, GOVERNOR'S PRESS OFFICER: She's taking it a day at a time. I think she's really enjoying her quiet time with her newborns today.

She knows that there's been a lot of planning that's gone into getting ready for this day, getting ready for the weeks and months ahead, not only on part of her staff, but the part of her family. I think she's feeling pretty good. She's enjoying the moment.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

KAUPPI: Sure, sure. Today has been the day of the ambassadors. She got a call about 3:00 from Ambassador Cellucci wishing her well; they had a nice chat about how great it is to be the parents of daughters, and they chatted for about 10 minutes, largely discussing parenting and how great that is. And then...

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

KAUPPI: No, I don't think they discussed any official business there. There will be time for that later. She also received a book from former Ambassador Ray Flynn. His book on Pope John Paul II, and...

(LAUGHTER)

And Ambassadorial designee Mr. Eagan and his wife were kind enough to send some flowers over. She also received books from Senate president...

BATTISTA: All right, Jason Kauppi, the governor's spokesperson, giving a little update, as he has been all day, on the governor's condition after giving birth to her twins yesterday. Who is on the phone? Jack in Pennsylvania. Go ahead.

JACK: Hi, Bobbie. How you doing?

BATTISTA: Good, thanks.

JACK: I just want to say this: a lot of people are not taking one very important thing into consideration. This woman created a miracle, when a woman gives birth and you see that baby coming out, it is a creation which cannot be doubled, it defies the imagination, it is the most wondrous, joyous thing that can happen to a human being.

This woman, if she is capable of bringing two new lives into this world, she certainly is capable of doing her job. So, before we judge her, like this guy Kevin in Birmingham is, let her bring these two little babies into this world, let them know that mommy is right there and then she will go back to doing what obviously she feels that she knows how to do best, and that's being governor of Massachusetts.

BATTISTA: I think we should have kept Kevin around, there, but Jim, do you want to respond to that?

BRAUDE: Yes, it is a miracle, and yes, it is wonderful. But I'm not sure that the connection holds, as the caller suggested.

One of the other things, Bobbie. If Jane Swift was as serious about getting away from being the mom and getting into being the governor, Jason Kauppi, her press person, shouldn't be answering these kind of questions.

I don't want to know what page in "Dr. Spock" she is on, I want to know, when is she going to get to governing? What are her issues going to be? And I think she should respectably say, and her spokesperson should say, the babies are healthy. Next question on another topic.

BATTISTA: I was going to say, can you give her at least a day or two's break on that or no?

BRAUDE: Listen, it was great -- the papers in Boston splashed the lead headlines, huge banner headlines, Twins Healthy, Swift First Governing Mom, all that sort of stuff. I think it is great.

But this is an opportunity for her to show that she's as serious about the job as a lot of her supporters say, and the way to do that is, respectfully say, the mom is healthy, the kids are healthy, everybody is happy, and let's move on to other topics. I'm not saying...

By the way, Bobbie, let me be clear -- I'm not saying Jane should be governing today, I'm saying we don't need to know anymore about the kids and the presents and the books, we just don't.

BATTISTA: When we were watching the feed this morning of the initial news conference from Jason there, we actually thought the governor was going to show up there at the news conference, which we thought would have been pretty stellar, 12 hours later. I've got to go to break.

Gordon, your comment quickly.

GORDON: Yes, I just hope -- you know, something is going to suffer there, either her job or her family in some way or another. But my comment is, I just hope that her husband has the temperament to be the mother and the husband, that's a big job. I know I couldn't do it.

BATTISTA: All right. We will take a break and be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Let's look at the results of our interactive viewer vote. The question today was, when it comes to women in politics, is there a double standard? 76 percent says there is, and 24 percent are saying there is not.

Candy, do you think we will ever be able to overcome that gap someday?

STRAIGHT: I think as we see more women in office, we will, but it will probably be a while. With Jane Swift as governor, and four other women as governor, I think ultimately, we will have more women serving as governors.

The gentleman before talked about the press. I live in the state of New Jersey. We had a woman governor there, she had operations, she broke her leg once, the press is always there to check what she was doing. So, I'm sure it is no different in Massachusetts than it was in New Jersey.

BATTISTA: Sharon in South Dakota. Go ahead.

SHARON: I want to say to Mr. Miller, and I'm sorry he's not on the program now, but it sounds to me -- I lived in the '50s, '60s, '70s and I didn't see all this great reverence on the part of man for women staying at home and being mothers and so forth. I think it is just a club they are using to try to keep women from taking their rightful place in this country.

BATTISTA: Sharon, thanks very much. To the audience quickly up here, to John.

JOHN: Our friend from Boston may sound like having children is a disability, rather than the blessing that it is. And it ought to be the voters choice, it will be the voters choice, ultimately, as to whether or not she gets to stay in office. Whether she has the children or not, is a moral issue between her and her husband.

BATTISTA: Go ahead, Jim.

BRAUDE: It's not a disability, it is a clever line. But it's not true. It's a major responsibility, it is a huge job to be governor, it's a huge job to be mother of three young kids -- I'm a father of two young kids, and I know. And the issue is, can you balance it?

I think there are tons of men and women who can balance it quite well. People who have long records, doing their jobs before, have good records as parents, able to balance. All I'm saying is in this case I don't think that's the case.

And one of the things that makes me sad about this, Bobbie, it's almost this new standard that Jane Swift is setting. She is going to be on the phone on Friday doing a conference call with our governor's council, as if every woman has to try to do both. It is fine to make a choice. You want to stay home with the kids? That's fine. You want to go to work, put the kids in child care? That's also fine.

She's acting as if every woman has got to be Superwoman, and that's not the case.

BATTISTA: A couple more e-mails, Regina in West Virginia says:

"It's hard enough to manage family and career when you work a regular job, let alone a job as demanding as the governor. There's no getting around the fact that either the kids or the job has to suffer, and sadly, it will probably be the kids."

Lisa in Tennessee says:

"There are some detriments when a mother serves in public office, but there are also benefits. Mothers bring a perspective to policy decisions, especially on family and education issues that men may not. Do we really want all policy decisions made by men and childless women?"

OK. And to the audience.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just listening to Jim, it sounds like he's painting an image that this woman is sort of like the Kathie Lee Gifford of politics, where she's always holding the kids up. Is that what you are trying to? Is that how you look at her, not being from Boston?

BRAUDE: She hasn't hired any workers in Honduras yet, as far as I know. What do you mean, beyond that, about Kathie Lee? I don't quite get it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, Kathie got a reputation for, please, keep my kids out of the public eye, look at them. So, she was the one always pushing them in there, you know.

BRAUDE: No. Let me say, one of my favorite lines is from Alice Longworth Roosevelt who once said, "if you don't have anything good to say about anybody, come sit right next to me, and I don't want that reputation."

She's actually done a pretty good job with her first child, who's 3 or 4 years old, Elizabeth, keeping her out of the spotlight, which I think is a healthy thing. However, now as governor, there's this almost intoxicating thing. "People" Magazine wants her, "60 Minutes" wants her, she was on the "Today Show" the other day, this show. I'm not sure, I hope, but I'm not sure she's going to be able to resist the urge.

BATTISTA: Well, in many ways, she is groundbreaking, and with that, comes the media attention. Right?

(END OF SHOW)

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