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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Jury Finds Florida 14-Year-Old Guilty of Second-Degree Murder
Aired May 16, 2001 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, crime and punishment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLERK: We find the defendant guilty of second-degree murder with a firearm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A Florida jury convicts a 14-year-old for the fatal shooting of his teacher. We'll have a live report, and I'll speak with attorneys on both sides.
The FBI director takes responsibility for a series of agency blunders on the day that Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh was to have been executed. As McVeigh considers his legal options, we'll get a live update. And accused FBI spy Robert Hanssen could also face the death penalty. We'll have a live report on his indictment.
Good evening. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting tonight from Washington.
There's nothing unusual about murder or murder trials in the United States. Unfortunately, they happen every day. What is unusual is when the accused is a 14-year-old boy who's being tried as an adult, and if convicted, could face life in prison without parole.
For weeks, the nation has been riveted by such a case in Florida, Nathaniel Brazill accused of murdering his English teacher. Today, there was a verdict in that case, and that's our top story.
Joining us now live from West Palm Beach is CNN correspondent Mark Potter. He's been covering the trial all along.
Mark, tell us what happened.
MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, shortly after their Lunch break the jurors announced they had reached a decision in this controversial case. So the families, the lawyers, the attorneys, everyone, the court officials scrambled into the courtroom as quickly as they could, and then Nathaniel Brazill heard his verdict.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CLERK: Verdict: We the jury find as follows. As to count one, we find the defendant guilty of second-degree murder with a firearm, a lesser included offense as contained in the indictment.
POTTER (voice-over): After the verdict was read, his mother appeared calm, but other family members wept. Having avoided a first- degree murder conviction, Nathaniel Brazill said "Not too bad," according to his attorney Robert Udell. But Udell said the boy then wept and claimed the 14-year-old has no understanding of the years in prison he now could face.
ROBERT UDELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don't think Nathaniel can think past the next 10 minutes. He doesn't know 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, in jail. It's lifetimes to him. He doesn't understand those numbers.
POTTER: Prosecutors praised the jury, even though the verdict was less than they had sought, and they noted the pain felt by the families, the community, and especially Brazill's classmates at Lake Worth Community Middle School.
BARBARA BURNS, PROSECUTOR: They've lost a teacher that they admired, but let's not forget, they lost a friend of theirs, a peer of theirs. It's been traumatic for them all the way around.
POTTER: As soon as the verdict was read, school officials notified students in their classrooms. Many had questions about what would happen to Brazill and extra counselors were there for those who needed to talk.
ROBERT HATCHER, PRINCIPAL: A lot of students are just numb. They -- you know, we've done the best we can to provide students and get students ready for this day. But you know, we're dealing with children.
POTTER: Some jurors said they, too, had a difficult time. One said it was the hardest thing she'd ever done in her life. Hayward Simmons, the jury foreman, said second-degree murder was the best option.
HAYWARD SIMMONS, JURY FOREMAN: It was difficult, very difficult for all of us. It came down, because we just didn't believe it was premeditated murder.
POTTER: Outside the court, the Brazill and Grunow families chose not to speak publicly, but are expected to appear at Brazill's sentencing hearing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
POTTER: That sentencing hearing is scheduled for June 29th. The prosecutor says the sentence could range from 25 years to life in prison. The defense attorney says the judge has more leeway than that.
Wolf, back to you. BLITZER: Mark Potter in West Palm Beach, thank you very much.
A short while ago, I discussed the trial, the verdict and the implications of the case with prosecutor Marc Shiner.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Marc Shiner, thanks for joining us. You asked that he be convicted of first-degree murder. He was convicted of second- degree murder, meaning that presumably anywhere from 25 years to life in prison, but it's not mandatory life. Are you disappointed in this verdict?
MARC SHINER, PROSECUTOR: No, not in any way, shape or form. This was a hard-fought case. There were some real serious issues here, and the jury has spoken, and we accept the verdict that they've reached.
BLITZER: They didn't accept your insistence that it was premeditated. As a result, they went with the second-degree murder verdict. Why do you believe they reached that decision?
SHINER: It's tough to speculate what 12 other human beings were actually thinking. I do know that jury was fairly intelligent. They were very intelligent. They dedicated almost three weeks of their lives to that courtroom and the judicial system. I think they found the facts of this case, all the facts and the law, which was told to them by Judge Wennet, I think they made a decision that they felt was appropriate under the facts and circumstances.
Exactly why they reached that decision, I couldn't tell you.
BLITZER: The judge is going to be sentencing Nathaniel Brazill at the end of June. What amount of time in prison do you think he deserves right now?
SHINER: It wouldn't really be appropriate for us to talk as to what the appropriate sentence would be. We need to reserve those comments for Judge Wennet at the time of sentencing. So there are a lot of things that go into our recommendation, and we're not there yet.
BLITZER: Do you have any second thoughts about going forward with this prosecution, trying Nathaniel Brazill as an adult even though he was only 13 years old at the time of the murder and 14 years old right now?
SHINER: No, sir. As a prosecutor, my job is to enforce the laws. The legislature makes the laws. And the law, certainly in the state of Florida, was that this young man, the grand jury, the people of our community, decided he should be charged as an adult. My job was to present the facts to the best of our ability, and I think we did that, and the jury in our community has spoken as to what they thought the appropriate verdict was. So I have no regret that we did that. I think it was important that we aired this trial out so Nathaniel took responsibility, finally, for what he did. BLITZER: As you probably know, many of your fellow prosecutors believe the law should be changed: that juveniles should be tried as juveniles. Are you among them, among those who believe that?
SHINER: My personal opinion is really irrelevant as to how I feel. My job is to prosecute people to the best of my ability. I certainly think the debate right now is certainly in the forefront, and I have full confidence that our legislature will do what they think is appropriate for our community. If they think laws need to be changed, they'll do it. If they think they're appropriate, so be it.
BLITZER: Earlier today, you said that parents should be more aware of what their children are doing. That was the advice you gave.
In this particular case, do you think the parents of Nathaniel Brazill should be held accountable for what happened?
SHINER: No, sir. From what I knew about the Brazill family, they were wonderful people. They were victims as much as the Grunow family were. I certainly don't think we should indict the parents in this case in any way, shape or form. The only message I was trying to send that as parents we certainly should get to know our kids better.
Certainly, I'm sure they did the best they could for Nathaniel. From all accounts, he had the best upbringing that I could tell. He certainly was not disadvantaged like many people we see in this court system. And my message to the people out there who are listening is to hug and live your kids, and just to get to know them better as a human being: Find out what's bothering them, find out if there's anything there that would cause them possible -- to be possibly angry enough to do what Nathaniel did, and grab a gun and try to get their way with a firearm.
Certainly, we can't have that, and hopefully, it never gets repeated again.
BLITZER: All right, Marc Shiner, thanks for joining us.
SHINER: Thank you, sir.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: Let's get perspective now from Brazill's defense team. Joining me by telephone from West Palm Beach is defense attorney Robert Udell.
Mr. Udell, you heard the prosecutor say he was pleased by this verdict. Were you?
ROBERT UDELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there's an old saying that when both sides are unhappy with a verdict it's probably the right one. I guess that applies to this case.
No, we're not happy with the verdict. We thought the proper crime was manslaughter...
(AUDIO GAP)
BLITZER: We all heard Nathaniel Brazill quoted as saying when -- you heard the reaction and he was asked how he felt, he said "Not too bad." What does -- what do you think he meant by that?
UDELL: Oh, I know what he meant. That -- Nathaniel's remorseful. That wasn't Nathaniel being cocky. He's a child who now knows at least he's got a chance and that the judge doesn't have to automatically impose a life sentence. That's what he meant by "not too bad."
BLITZER: As you know, there's a lot of second-guessing going on. Looking back, was it a good idea to put Nathaniel Brazill on the stand in his own defense?
UDELL: Well, I'm not going to get into the argument about whether or not Nathaniel should get -- should have taken the stand and testified. I know the locale in which we were trying this case. But let's to the bottom line: This jury didn't find Nathaniel guilty or not guilty because he made a good witness or a bad witness. That's absurd. They reached the verdict they reached because all of the facts led them to that conclusion.
BLITZER: What's the main argument you're going to make to the judge before sentencing to give Nathaniel Brazill as minimum a sentence as possible?
UDELL: Well, from a legal perspective, we disagree with the state. We do not believe that the sentence is a mandatory 25 sentence. We believe that when you coalesce all the applicable statutes, the "mandatory three." At the same time,we -- the judge is going to impose a significant term of imprisonment. We know that.
BLITZER: Robert Udell, thanks for joining us on this very busy day.
UDELL: Thank you, sir.
BLITZER: Congress has its eye on the FBI. We'll tell you why lawmakers have been grilling FBI Director Louis Freeh.
And as President Bush gets ready to unveil his energy plan, we'll pull back the curtain and give you a sneak preview. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. FBI Director Louis Freeh has probably had better days. He was on Capitol Hill to face questions from lawmakers about the Timothy McVeigh files and other mishaps by the bureau even as one of the FBI's most trusted agents was being indicted for espionage.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
REP. FRANK WOLF (R), VIRGINIA: This is not an inquisition today. This is a congressional hearing. BLITZER (voice-over): Even so, the FBI director faced a grilling on his agency's failure to hand documents to Timothy McVeigh's defense team before the trial. He called it a serious error and said the buck ultimately stops with him.
LOUIS FREEH, DIRECTOR, FBI: As director, I'm accountable and responsible for that failure, and I accept that responsibility.
BLITZER: Freeh revealed yet more documents were discovered in a shakedown he ordered last Friday and announced steps to prevent future mistakes, including hiring what he called a world-class records expert. He insisted the more than 3,000 pages of documents do not challenge McVeigh's guilt, but that was not good enough for some lawmakers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PATRICK KENNEDY (D), RHODE ISLAND: In light of the fact that you can miss all these files that were in the most celebrated case of the century -- we can't even get it right with that -- how are we supposed to believe that we can get it right with the death penalty? And...
FREEH: Well, let me say this, then. I disagree. I think we have gotten it right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Though billed as a session to talk about the FBI's budget, lawmakers focused instead on a string of recent FBI blunders, including the case of accused spy Robert Hanssen, an FBI agent, who allegedly worked for Moscow over 15 years.
REP. DAVID OBEY (D), WISCONSIN: I think that the litany of troubles with the agency are truly astounding and regrettable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And pressure continues to build in Congress for the appointment of an independent inspector general to oversee the FBI. That's a move Louis Freeh opposes.
Meanwhile, on the day Timothy McVeigh was originally scheduled to die, he met with his lawyers to discuss his options now that the FBI document mess is delaying his execution at least until June 11th.
CNN's Susan Candiotti joins us now live from the federal penitentiary in Terre Haute, Indiana.
Susan, tell us what happened today.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Wolf. On the day Timothy McVeigh was to receive a lethal injection, instead he received two visitors: his lawyers, who are in the throes of reviewing more than 3,000 new pages of material that the FBI had failed to turn over. And today his lawyers also learned and also apparently briefed his client about the fact that the FBI had turned up even more documents. That could potentially give McVeigh's lawyers even more work and could give them a reason to ask a judge for another postponement.
Now, his lawyers will not say whether their client, who said he was prepared and willing to die, is secretly delighted that the agency he loved to hate is now on the hot seat. McVeigh's lawyers say that they are concentrating on other matters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NATHAN CHAMBERS, MCVEIGH ATTORNEY: His spirits are good. He remains willing to consider all options that might be available to him. As the defense team, we have a lot of work to do. And really now is the time for us to work, not talk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: McVeigh's lawyers say that their client is taking an active role as they consider what to do next, but they won't describe exactly what that role is. And the lawyers add that they are willing to go all the way to fight for their client, if he is willing to, to pursue every option available.
Back to you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Susan Candiotti in Terre Haute, Indiana, thank you very much.
Under fire for its blunders in the McVeigh case, the FBI today faced further embarrassment as 25-year veteran Robert Hanssen was indicted on espionage charges, accused of passing secrets to Moscow.
CNN national correspondent Bob Franken is following this case. He joins me now live.
This was a big day for the U.S. government.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was, as a matter of fact, for so many shoes to have to fall here. This was the indictment of Robert Hanssen, one of the FBI's top counterintelligence experts. It turns out he's charged with spying for the Soviet Union, and then Russia, going back all the way to October of 1985. And today, he was indicted in Alexandria, Virginia, 21 counts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN MELSON, U.S. ATTORNEY: Fourteen of the 21 counts are capital-eligible counts, which means he may face the death penalty if convicted of any one of those counts. The remaining counts are all punishable by up to life in prison.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FRANKEN: The fact that he was indicted for a possible death penalty crimes is what caused negotiations to break down over a plea bargain with the attorney for Robert Hanssen, Plato Cacheris.
BLITZER: Explain to us, Bob, why there is so much pressure on the government eventually to reach a plea agreement with Robert Hanssen.
FRANKEN: Well, there are two reasons. One, the government wants to find out exactly how much damage Robert Hanssen allegedly did. They still are embarrassed by the fact that they don't have a real handle on that, just that it was significant. Secondly, if there is a trial, then many of these secrets, vital secrets to the United States, would be revealed to the public.
BLITZER: Pressure on both sides to reach a plea agreement presumably. Bob Franken, thanks for joining us.
Meanwhile, a mystery has been solved and a big-money day on Wall Street. We'll tell you why this train full of hazardous materials went on a 66-mile journey with nobody on board. And what helped push the Dow to its best finish of the year? We'll tell you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Pipelines and power lines, reactors and refineries, the Bush administration wants more. The president will release his comprehensive energy strategy tomorrow, but CNN senior White House correspondent John King is ready to give us a peek right now.
John, tell us what he's got in store for us.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Wolf: The president will hit the road trying to sell that plan, stops in Minnesota and Iowa tomorrow. His challenge, convincing Americans that when they think of energy, that there's a lot more to worry about than the power crunch in California or rising gasoline prices at the pump.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): The report is ready. The president's job now, selling the country and the Congress on a long-term energy plan full of controversial proposals.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This isn't just a report that's going to gather dust. This is an action plan because this is an action administration.
KING: It runs 163 pages and has 105 recommendations: 42 deal with conservation and alternative fuels, including tax credits for buying energy-efficient vehicles, more research money for biofuels made from animal and farm waste, and new incentives to encourage wind and solar power. 35 recommendations deal with supply: a call for at least 1,300 new power plants over the next 20 years, new pipelines and electricity transmission lines, new refineries for gas and home heating oil, and new domestic exploration for oil and natural gas, including sites in Alaska and the Rocky Mountain West that environmentalists and many in Congress say should be left off limits. REP. EDWARD MARKEY (D-MA), ENERGY COMMITTEE: To drill in the Arctic wilderness, to construct a pipeline, to bring the oil down to California, to put it into the gasoline tanks of SUVs that average 14 miles per gallon would be a sin against nature and history.
KING: Mr. Bush is eager to take on his critics and sell what he calls the nation's first long-term energy strategy in memory.
BUSH: This is a very optimistic look at America. It's -- it's tough in that it lays out the problems. It's a direct assessment of neglect.
KING: But selling the long-term strategy is complicated by short-term energy issues.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Mr. Bush says he's done all he can, for example, to ease the power crunch in California, and once again today said he opposes price caps. And the president says he's concerned about rising prices at the pump, wants the federal government to keep an eye on that, but he said he's convinced, at least so far, that there's been no price gouging. Just those questions about the short-term concerns of Americans affecting the administration's effort now as the president hits the road to sell this very controversial long-term policy -- Wolf.
BLITZER: John King at the White House, thank you very much,
In other stories making news tonight, the mystery of yesterday's runaway train has been solved. With nobody on board, the train hit speeds of almost 50 miles an hour and covered 66 miles before a rail worker jumped aboard and brought it to a stop.
What happened? Investigators say an engineer mistakenly hit the throttle instead of a brake when he hopped off the train to switch tracks.
Israeli helicopters attacked Palestinian police stations in the West Bank and Gaza today. The Israeli military says at least one of the targets served as a weapons factory. The attacks come as Israel's government expresses regret for killing five Palestinian policemen Sunday. It says Israeli troops mistakenly thought the police were members of an elite Palestinian fighting unit.
A big day on Wall Street as the Dow Jones industrial average closed above 11,000 for the first time in eight months. The Dow jumped more than 343 points, and a surge in technology stocks pushed the Nasdaq up 80 points. The strong performance follows yesterday's half-point interest-rate cut by the Federal Reserve.
It may be the ultimate airlift. On "The Leading Edge," we'll tell you why a Russian plane could soon be headed to China on a mission for the United States.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: Tonight on "The Leading Edge," the United States government is checking out its options for getting its EP-3/E surveillance plane home from China. Representatives of the U.S. government are said to have contacted an air freight company about the possibility of using an enormous Russian-built Antonov 124 to carry the disassembled plane out of China.
A year of tough competition in the world of videogames. Microsoft is promoting its new Xbox at the world's largest videogame trade show in Los Angeles. Also on display, Nintendo's new GameCube. Both machines will hit the stores later this year and be up against Sony's popular PlayStation 2.
And if you want to see the planet Mercury, astronomers say now is your best chance. It's swinging away from the sun this month, so the glare you normally encounter is gone. For viewing tips, visit cnn.com/space.
Please stay with CNN throughout the night. Coming up at the top of the hour, actor Robert Blake's son, Noah, is Larry King's guest.
Up next, Greta Van Susteren. She's standing by to tell us what she has -- Greta.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST, CNN'S "THE POINT": Wolf, great guests tonight: Senator Grassley from Iowa on the FBI; Gore Vidal, the author, on McVeigh; and former NFL Mercury Morris and prosecutor Ken Padowitz on the conviction in Florida -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Thanks, Greta. It sounds good. Thanks very much for watching. I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. "THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN" begins right now.
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