Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Today

Jim Jeffords: Hero to Some, Turncoat to Others

Aired May 24, 2001 - 13:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU WATERS, CNN ANCHOR: Senator James Jeffords, a hero to some, a turncoat to others. If you don't follow politics closely, you may never have heard the name James Jeffords before this week. But with a short speech today in a Burlington, Vermont, the soft-spoken Vermont senator created a whole new ballgame in Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JAMES JEFFORDS (R), VERMONT: In order to best represent my state of Vermont, my own conscience and principles I have stood for my whole life, I will leave the Republican Party and become an independent. Control of the Senate...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATERS: What Senator Jeffords was trying to say there when he was interrupted was that control of the Senate will revert to the Democrats for the first time since '94, but won't happen until tax cut legislation clears a House-Senate conference committee and heads to the president's desk. That could be as soon as tomorrow.

Fallout from Jeffords' announcement was quick, if not preemptive. The conservative-leaning "New York Post" branded the Vermonter "Benedict Jeffords." In Washington, fellow Senate maverick John McCain angrily warned the Republican Party to, in his words, "grow up and learn to disagree without resorting to personal threats."

The White House insists the president's agenda will not change with a Democratic Senate. One official tells CNN, we quote, "We just have to work harder to pass it." The president himself in a speech today in Cleveland said he couldn't disagree more with Senator Jeffords' decision.

For the sake of perspective now, consider this. Never before has control of the U.S. Senate changed parties outside an election. Certainly, today's events could all be undone with the next election in 2002. But for now, Capitol Hill is in turmoil, and it's a tumultuous day for CNN's Jonathan Karl, who is in the thick of it -- Jon, what's it like?

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the soon-to-be Majority Leader Tom Daschle in perhaps the greatest bit of understatement today came out in his first press conference as the presumptive majority leader, and he said, quote, "Senator Jeffords' decision obviously produces some changes."

Obviously, some monumental changes up here on Capitol Hill in the United States Senate. But Daschle also said although the Democrats are taking the majority, they are aware it is a very narrow majority. They are going to have to work with Republicans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: What does not change with this new balance of power is the need for principled compromise. This is still one of the most closely divided Senates in all of our history. We still face the same challenges. Bipartisanship, or I guess I should now say tri-partisanship, is still a requirement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: Now, he said tri-partisanship because you have Democrats, Republicans, and now with Jim Jeffords a single independent in the Senate. Now, the change will happen when Jeffords actually changes to an independent. He has not done so yet. He said his decision will be effective once Congress completes the tax cut legislation that has now passed the House and the Senate. But the House and the Senate still need to work out the differences between their two versions of that tax cut before it can be sent down to the president. When it is, Jeffords will officially become an independent. And the Democrats will take the reigns up here on Capitol Hill.

That means Senator Trent Lott is still the majority leader, at least for a couple more days or perhaps maybe only a day or two, depending on how soon they get done with that tax cut. Senator Lott we will hear from at 1:15, in about 10 minutes. He will be talking about his plans and about what the Republicans intend to do from here, Lou.

WATERS: Republicans taking a hit toady from John McCain, who is telling the party to grow up. Are there whispers that he too might consider becoming an independent? '

KARL: Well, I can tell you, Lou, this is an interesting development. It has not been reported yet. But Senator McCain, we have learned from Democratic sources, had been approached by Democrats, including Tom Daschle, John Edwards of North Carolina, and Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts. Those three had approached McCain over the last several weeks and tried to get him to become an independent to swing control of the Senate over to the Democrats.

Now, obviously, McCain decided not to do that, at least not for now. And McCain has indicated that he intends for now to stay with the Republican Party. But we have learned there were serious overtures made to Senator McCain. One thing we also learned is that Senator McCain was offered the possibility of retaining his chairmanship, which he now -- at least for a day or two, he is the chairman of the Commerce Committee. If he had gone independent, Democrats said, "We will protect that chairmanship and allow you to keep it." So a lot of word up here. McCain obviously very angered with the Republican leadership. And he is not alone. There is significant talk in the hallways here about a potential challenge to Trent Lott's leadership, although right now nothing afoot. But Senator Don Nickles, who is the number two Republican in the Senate, did tell reporters that it is possible that there could be a challenge to lost leadership, Lou.

WATERS: Lincoln Chafee, Rhode Island. Could the Republicans be vulnerable there?

KARL: Well, Lincoln Chafee is even more liberal or moderate than Jim Jeffords, voted with the Democrats even more than Jeffords did. But his father was a longtime Republican in the United States Senate, a very influential moderate Republican. And Lincoln Chafee likes to remind people that his first name is Lincoln, Abraham Lincoln being the founder of the Republican Party.

So there have been serious entreaties over to Lincoln Chafee as well. But Chafee has said that he is staying with the Republican Party.

WATERS: All right, so we'll have to concern ourselves with intrigues from Vermont for today. Jonathan Karl...

KARL: Enough to keep us busy.

WATERS: ... yeah, that's for certain. And Jonathan Karl will be keeping busy up on Capitol Hill for us today. Natalie, what's next?

ALLEN: We've got one more, though. Serious overtures made to a Democrat as well to switch. But if anybody wonders whether newly elected Senate Democrat Zell Miller might be pondering a party switch of his own, Miller says forget it. As you may know, the former Georgia governor wasted no time in angering many of his new Senate colleagues by supporting President Bush on many if not most key issues. But in an interview with CNN's Judy Woodruff, Miller puts it like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ZELL MILLER (D), GEORGIA: Nobody is going to drive me out of this house. I am going to continue to support President Bush when I think his proposals are good for Georgia and good for this nation. And nobody is going to change me on that.

When I think the Democrats are right, I will vote with them. When I think the Republicans are right, I will vote with them. But as far as where I'm going to operate, I'm going to live in this same old house I've always lived in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: You can see the rest of that interview on "Inside Politics" 5:00 p.m. Eastern 2:00 Pacific. Well, if the White House wanted to look on the bright side, it could think of all the free time Dick Cheney will have without the constant prospect of having to rush to the Senate to break tie votes. On the not-so-bright side, the Jeffords switch will mean an uphill climb for many of the president's priorities. And for more about that, let's go to our senior White House correspondent, John King.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Natalie, perhaps you just found the silver lining so many here at the White House trying to find in this dramatic and very disappointing development for the White House. Here, they are mostly thinking ahead.

But the president is on the road today. And he did take a moment to look back and reflect on what Senator Jeffords said this morning in making his announcement that he was becoming an independent. Senator Jeffords took sharp issue with this president, suggesting that President Bush has not been as open minded as reaching out as much to moderate Democrats as he suggested he would during campaign. So President Bush saying that he understand Senator Jeffords' decision and respects it, but the president also making clear that on the point of whether he has governed from a bipartisan perspective, he profoundly disagrees with Senator Jeffords.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our agenda for reforming America's public schools and providing tax relief for every taxpayer represents the hopes and dreams of Main Street America. Our agenda for reforming our military and modernizing our military to defend America and our allies represents the best hope for peace.

I was elected to get things done on behalf of the American people and to work with both Republicans and Democrats. And we're doing just that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, we are told it is likely that the president will speak with Senator Tom Daschle, the soon-to-be Senate majority leader, sometime later this afternoon, that call being arranged as the president travels back to Washington. Senior White House staff here insisting the president will stick with his agenda in the weeks and months ahead, but they acknowledge they will have a much tougher time selling it in a Senate controlled by Democrats.

One of the reasons, the tax bill has moved so quickly through the Congress, both the House and the Senate controlled by Republicans. A very different game now as this Republican president still in his relatively early days in office has to deal with now a Democratic Senate.

And make no mistake about it, here at the White House, they say Senator Tom Daschle has very soft-spoken way about him, but they view him here as a fierce partisan. They know this town very different all of a sudden, Natalie. ALLEN: And so, John, though, this administration not saying that it made a mistake and it's going to change in any way, how it conducts business with moderates in its own party or the Democrats?

KING: Well, the White House insisting, a lot of fingers being pointed from Democrats, and from Republicans for that matter, at this White House saying they should not have at least what Senator Jeffords perceived to be snubs from the White House, that those things should not have happened, that they should have at least had the antenna up and noticed sooner that he was trying to defect. White House officials insisting again they are not to blame. But look in the days and weeks ahead for some quiet consultations with other moderates, this White House not only eager to prevent any more defections, but eager to build some better relations with moderates not only in the Senate.

This will become very difficult in the House now. As the president reaches out to Democrats in the Senate, there are some concerns that the conservatives will revolt in the House and that the president may need more help from moderate Republicans there as well.

ALLEN: John King, thanks, John, at the White House. For more now, here's Lou.

WATERS: It's not unheard-of for members of Congress to switch parties in midstream. In the past 20 years, 14 Democrats have switched to Republican, but only one Republican has gone Democratic. The last senator to switch sides was Ben Nighthorse Campbell, who was elected by the voters of Colorado as a Democrat, but who joined the GOP in 1995.

Senator Campbell joins us this from Capitol Hill. Welcome, Senator. You must have some sympathy today for what Senator Jeffords is going through.

SEN. BEN NIGHTHORSE CAMPBELL (R), COLORADO: Absolutely. I know what he is going through. And I'm sure he's had a knot in his stomach for the last week and he's had some sleepless nights. It's not an easy thing to do, to change parties.

WATERS: We have heard there are Democrats who are angry at him, Republicans of course angry at him because they lose control of the major committees and the Senate. Are you angry with Senator Jeffords over this decision?

CAMPBELL: No. I've known Jim a long time. I believe he's a man of integrity and honesty. But I know he was feeling more and more alienated by the party. And I don't know what happened over at the White House to cap it, but I think that was clearly the deciding factor.

But bottom line, when you get all done with politics, you have to look in the mirror and be honest with yourself. And if you're not representing the party that you're in very well, then maybe you'd be better off being in another party. That's the reason why I changed.

WATERS: Yes, it a little difficult comparing your switch to Senator Jeffords' switch, is it not? It was a different time.

CAMPBELL: Oh, yeah.

WATERS: But you were both described as independents. You switched to Republican because you said you were more comfortable there. Senator Jeffords is opting out because he feels less comfortable being a Republican. Is being comfortable what this is about, or is this a power deal?

CAMPBELL: Well, part of it is being comfortable. Part of it is feeling that you're needed and your voice is being heard within the caucus structure. It's a little different with Senator Jeffords and me, though, because it didn't make that much of a difference. There wasn't a whole power structure change just because I changed parties. But with Jim changing parties, you can see the upheaval here on the Hill.

And I think, frankly, the big loser in this whole thing is going to be the president and his agenda because whether it's his energy package or his package for education or the national defense or something, that is all going to have to be moderated now.

WATERS: Senator Jeffords did say that what precipitated his decision was the Republican Party's drift to the right. Do you agree or disagree with that?

CAMPBELL: I don't feel that, because I've always felt comfortable with within the party. And a number of times, I've been the only Republican that has crossed over to vote with Democrats on some labor issues or minority issues or things of that nature. And I've never at all been set upon. I've never had anybody scold me or tell me you've got to line up and you've got to be a good soldier. That's what I used to get on the other side of the aisle.

By the way, not so much here. When I was a Democrat here, I got along very well with Tom Daschle and with Harry Reid, with the leadership. They're fine people. I get along with them now and consider them my friends. I was getting it within my state more than I was here in Washington.

WATERS: Right. I saw your -- when you switched to the GOP, you said it was to shake up some stiff conservatives, to quote you, "Inside those stodgy three-piece suits, there are some free spirits. And my duty in life has become to set them free. Have you been successful?"

CAMPBELL: Well, there's a few more that have bought motorcycles. So I think I'm a little bit successful.

WATERS: OK. Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell, thanks so much for taking time out...

CAMPBELL: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com