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CNN Live Saturday
Timothy McVeigh Prepares for Monday Execution
Aired June 09, 2001 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DONNA KELLEY, CNN ANCHOR: For Timothy McVeigh, it is a time to complete his life: a time for final conversations, final meals, a final statement, perhaps, and for his victims, there may finally be closure.
CNN's Jeff Flock is at the federal penitentiary in Terre Haute, Indiana, McVeigh's home for the last two years, and where he's expected to die on Monday -- Jeff.
JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Donna. This hour, we're going to try to give you a bit of a behind-the-scenes look at what's going on outside the prison, but first, I want to take you to a live picture of the prison itself, perhaps you see it over there.
This is where Mr. McVeigh has spent the last two years, and the latest headline today comes from Chris Tritico. He is one of the members of Tim McVeigh's defense team who was here with us just a short time ago and said that he didn't think that Tim McVeigh gave up his final chance at a stay from the Supreme Court because he didn't want to die -- or because he wanted to die, but simply because he didn't feel that it would successful. Mr. Tritico said -- he says he didn't think Tim McVeigh wanted to die any more than anyone else.
Well, on now other news of the day, and that is awaiting Mr. McVeigh's final move, and that is from the special confinement on to the death house. According to prison officials, that has not yet taken place.
But I also I wanted to this hour, give you some sense of what's going on behind-the-scenes. Perhaps we can take a look. This, among the 1,700 members of the news media that have come here to this prison to document what is to take place on Monday. Perhaps you see the trailers, transmission facilities and all sorts of things. Off beyond to the right of your screen in that odd tent-shaped facility, that is where briefings will come from the Bureau of Prisons as well as McVeigh's attorneys as this process begins to grind on.
As we said, some 1,700 media credentials have been given out for this. Also, I want to give you one last look at the place where Tim McVeigh will probably not spend very much time -- much more time, that is special confinement unit. Perhaps you see the green-roofed building off in the distance. This was at one time home to Cuban detainees. It is now the federal death row. Room there for 50 people on death row. There are 21 people in that unit right now, but soon there will be only 20 as Tim McVeigh is transported on to that execution facility.
Of course, we will keep watch on this throughout the next several days as the process moves along, and let you know if there is -- as the process moves along how it plays out. For now, Jeff Flock, CNN, reporting live from Terre Haute, Indiana.
KELLEY: Jeff, a couple of quick questions. Are we likely to see Tim McVeigh being moved?
FLOCK: We will see the vehicle. The Bureau of Prisons will photograph the vehicle when it's about maybe 400, 500 yards of a drive. They say they will photograph the vehicle and make that available to us although, unless Tim McVeigh signs a waiver that allows him to be personally photographed, they will not photograph him.
KELLEY: Have you seen any protesters gathering in the area?
FLOCK: Some people have, although not any kind of large numbers. Obviously, the change in the date on this and the kind of up in the air nature of it at the end, the chief of police in Terre Haute told me he that he thinks that will have a chilling affect on numbers. But they are prepared for large numbers. Not far from here is the location where the demonstrators will be kept, not far from prison grounds, and they are prepared for hundreds, literally of people.
KELLEY: All right, Jeff Flock in Terre Haute. Thanks very much.
In Oklahoma City, hundreds of people touched by the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building may watch the McVeigh execution via closed-circuit television.
CNN's Ed Lavandera is in Oklahoma City -- Ed.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Donna, we've heard a lot over the last 24 hours about how Timothy McVeigh is preparing for his execution on Monday morning, but we must also point out that people here in this city must also go through the same process, in a different sort of way, of course.
About 300 people are expected fill the Federal Transfer Center at the Will Rogers Airport here in Oklahoma City. It's here where the victims, families and survivors will be able to see the closed-circuit broadcast and be able to see and hear from McVeigh, possibly, for the last time.
One of the survivors who will not be there to watch is Susan Walton. She doesn't think watching an execution will help heal the emotional wounds suffered because of the bombing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN WALTON, OKLAHOMA CITY BOMBING SURVIVOR: I have no memory of that day and so, basically what I remember about the bombing is all of the love and caring that came in to those of us who were injured and lost loved ones, and so I don't want to end it on negative note of hearing McVeigh's last words and having to live with that for the rest of my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: Mrs. Walton was on the third floor of the federal building. She was running an errand at the credit union when the bombing happened. She hasn't fully recovered from her injuries. She is trying to put off some surgeries as long as she can.
Now, we also had a chance this morning to speak with Oklahoma Governor Frank Keating. He told me there are no special events or any kind of special extreme security precautions being taken or being planned for Monday morning. He thinks that all the attention should be placed on the victim's families and survivors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. FRANK KEATING (R), OKLAHOMA: Of course, this has been a long agony for lot of people for many months and many years. So, people are preparing in different ways. I expect most people to take the view that this person is evil. This person destroyed the north part of downtown Oklahoma City, this person plucked out of our society 168 of our neighbors and friends and injured at lot of others, and if we don't see him again, that's great news for all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LAVANDERA: Very strong words from the governor this morning. Here at the Oklahoma City bombing memorial, more than 1,200 people are expected to shovel through this museum. They come every day, and it's quite an impressive scene to watch. It's mostly people from out of state who come by here. It's a warm day in Oklahoma City, and a lot of people already making their way around here.
I'm Ed Lavandera in Oklahoma City. Donna, back to you.
KELLEY: Ed, thanks very much.
The McVeigh execution has revived debate not just over the death penalty, but also over the broadcasting of executions, and an expert on the matter joins us now. Louis Masur is a history professor at City College in New York. He's also author of the book "Rights of Executions."
Welcome, Professor Masur, glad you could come in to talk with us.
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
KELLEY: Give us an idea. In the old days, was there ever a question? Was it always the death penalty and not such thing as life in prison?
LOUIS MASUR, CITY COLLEGE: Well, there was no penitentiaries, there was no life in prison as we know until 1830s and 1840s. In earlier times, either you were executed or you were publicly punished for the crime. The idea of serving a sentence didn't really exist and the ritual of the execution was a public ritual, a dramatic theatrical ritual meant to reinforce the sense of civil and religious order in the society.
KELLEY: And so it was looked at and when it supposed to be public, then they wanted that as a deterrent, then. Was that the idea?
MASUR: Yes, I think that's very much true. The belief was that the state would reassert its authority, that the criminal would play a role in this theater as the condemned, would ask for forgiveness and that the crowd would somehow learn a lesson. But what begins to happen, by the 1830s and 1840s, is an increasing sense that the spectacle, rather than reinforcing a sense of order, has become disordering.
KELLEY: Because they went on to party the rest of the day in a festival almost, wasn't it?
MASUR: Well, essentially. Essentially there's the awareness that the crowds are becoming too large, that there are more crimes being committed by the gallows then there are crimes being prevented. There is a sense, too, with the commercial development of the nation that it's just clogging arteries and getting in the way of the business of day, which needed to be done.
KELLEY: And so that changed into private. We have a couple of poll numbers we wanted to share with you and our audience today. As the Gallup poll currently -- it was done in May, in the middle of May, so it's about a month old. Gallup poll in favor or not of the death penalty for a person convicted of murder, and 65 percent are still for the death penalty in that case.
How have opinions changed over the years on that, for or against the death penalty?
MASUR: Well, it's a great question. There's been a long history in this country of debating the death penalty. That goes back to the time of the Revolution. The first attempts to abolish capital punishment in this country came following the revolution, with that idea that republics and democracies shouldn't execute, that this was something only that monarchs did and there have been cycles ever since of sentiment for and against.
In fact, the numbers that you just read to me seem to indicate growing concerns over the last five years, particularly about the legitimacy, the humanity of capital punishment as a crime, and a number of questions have been raised, and there seems to be a renewed movement towards some kind of moratorium, at least, to stop the death penalty until some of these issues can be further addressed.
KELLEY: That's right, that one governor did put a moratorium on that until they could make sure that someone was guilty and questioning why, and in some cases, whether or not the penalty was being justified, DNA, some case of innocent folks. One other question we want to go over was about -- talking about whether people would actually watch the McVeigh -- and here's we're using what I was just talking about, an eye for an eye, took a life, it fits the crime: 48 percent said then they would favor the death penalty for people convicted, and you talking about whether or not people would actually watch or come for the spectacle in the old days. In our poll about whether we would watch the McVeigh execution, 76 percent say no, they were not going to watch.
MASUR: Yes, that's very interesting. I think part of that reflects a change in terms of the access to the kinds of things that we get to see day in and day out that. You know, there's a funny paradox here. Back when public executions were first abolished beginning in the 1830s and '40s. abolitionists, those opposed to capital punishment wanted to abolish them because they thought it was a first-step toward the eventual abolition of capital punishment entirely.
In other words, take it out of public view, so it at least then, you know this notion of the deterrent effect, which they thought was a myth. Now with the McVeigh execution, you have some abolitionists saying let's televise it, let's let people see just how horrific it is to take a person's life.
But the fact is that today, compared to 100 years ago, we are somewhat more used to seeing scenes of brutality, scenes of terror, so-called scenes of reality that I am not certain even if were televised, that it would have the kind of affect that abolitionists believe or would hope it would have.
KELLEY: We are out of time. Professor Lou Masur, thanks very much, from City College and the author of the book "Rights of Execution." We appreciate you coming to talk with us today.
MASUR: Thank you very much.
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