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CNN Talkback Live

Tragedy in Houston: Is Postpartum Depression to Blame?

Aired June 21, 2001 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

RUSSELL YATES, FATHER OF FIVE SLAIN CHILDREN: Then I called my wife again and I said, "What's wrong, Andrea?"

And she said, you know, "You need to come home."

I said, "Is anyone hurt?"

And she said, "Yes."

And I said, "Who?"

And she said, "The children." She said, "All of them." And I just -- I mean, my heart just sunk.

ROBERT HURST, HOUSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT: Multiple charges of capital murder have been filed on Andrea Piya Yates (ph), 36 years of age, in connection with the deaths of her five children.

YATES: She went through postpartum depression with our fourth child, and it was very serious then. And she had attempted suicide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appears that she had a history of depression and postpartum depression.

YATES: On one hand, I know she killed our children, you know, but on the other, I know that, you know, the woman here is not the woman that killed my children.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BOBBIE BATTISTA, HOST: What happened in Houston, and is postpartum depression to blame?

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to TALKBACK LIVE. It is an indescribable tragedy. Five children are dead and their mother is facing capital murder charges. Yet, a day after the Houston killings, Andrea Yates' husband says his wife was clinically depressed and on medication, and that he still loves and supports her.

We'll share parts of Russell Yates' poignant interview with you throughout today's show. But first, with us is CNN correspondent Ed Lavendera with all the latest -- Ed. ED LAVENDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bobbie, as you mentioned, a couple of hours ago Russell Yates stepped out on his front lawn and before glaring cameras and reporters with lots of questions, stoically and strongly stood by his wife in saying that the woman who killed his children was not the woman he married. And here's a little portion of what he told us the moments when he first heard from his wife yesterday morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YATES: I got a call from my wife, and she said, "You need to come home."

And I said, "What's going on?"

And she said, "You need to come home," you know. Then, you know, I just hung up. You know, I was afraid of her tone. You know, her tone was very serious.

You know, then I called my wife again, and I said, "What's wrong, Andrea?"

And she said, you know, "You need to come home."

I said, "Is anyone hurt?"

And she said, "Yes." And I said, "Who?"

And she said, "The children." And she said, "All of them." And I just -- I mean, my heart just sunk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVENDERA: And all day here at the Yates family home, people have been coming bringing flowers, teddy bears and prayers, leaving them by a tree in the front lawn. And when Mr. Yates arrived here this morning, he took a moment and just kind of kneeled by the tree and was reading some of those prayers that people had left behind. It was a kind of very emotional moment, as you can imagine, for him -- Bobbie.

BATTISTA: Ed, one of the things that came out of the news conference this morning was that Mr. Yates had not able to see his wife yet. Do you know whether that has taken place?

LAVENDERA: I don't suspect so. We spoke with him a little while ago. He left the house here about an hour ago. He is under the impression that visiting hours at the jail where his wife is at happened on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and I think he is looking to make that happen tomorrow, hopefully. He has also said that when he left here, he was on his way to the medical examiner's office to identify the bodies of his five children, and he was also starting to look for a lawyer for his wife.

BATTISTA: And what has happened to Andrea Yates during this time? Where is she being held and what's the next step for her? LAVENDERA: Well, she is being held right now in a temporary holding facility next to the Harris County jail. Of course, with all of the flooding that the city has experienced, I think they've had to reshuffle things around here in the city. And tomorrow she is scheduled for an arraignment at 7:30 in the morning. And it was supposed to be in one courtroom. We understand that the courtroom was flooded out, so it's going to be in a separate room. But she's expected in court at 7:30 tomorrow morning.

BATTISTA: You have any idea what the D.A. is going to do?

LAVENDERA: Well that is the question of the hour. Of course, in Texas under capital murder charges, the D.A. could choose to pursue the death penalty against Andrea Yates. And when Mr. Yates came out, he was asked that question: What would he like to see the D.A. do?

He didn't come out and directly to say that he would prefer that the D.A. not pursue death penalty charges, but he did say that he loved and supported his wife and left a very strong impression that he would prefer that the D.A. not pursue that avenue.

BATTISTA: A question from the audience here. Delores, go ahead.

DELORES: Yes, I was wondering, since the medication hasn't been working for her, have they tried any other forms of treatment?

LAVENDERA: Well, from what the father told us this morning, she was under -- had been taking Effexor and Haldar, which are very powerful psychiatric medications. But we also understand that she hasn't undergone any counseling in recent times. Back in two years ago, she was -- had a suicide attempt after the birth of her -- I believe her fourth child. And it's kind of been off and on now. Mr. Yates has detailed a long, powerful struggle that they've dealt with, with postpartum depression. But beyond the medication, it's not exactly clear as to how much counseling has gone on.

BATTISTA: All right, Ed Lavendera, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate the update.

LAVENDERA: Sure.

BATTISTA: The children's father, as we said, Russell Yates, gave what was at times, a heart wrenching interview with reporters this morning. Here is another segment from that news conference now. And in this one, he talks about his wife's depression.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YATES: She went through a postpartum depression with our fourth child, and it was very serious then, and she had attempted suicide then. And they, you know, gave her medication and she really -- it took a while, but she just snapped out of it. She was like herself again all of a sudden, you know, and that was a couple of years ago, you know. And she was fine for -- from that time up until a few months after she had our fifth child.

BATTISTA: Joining us now, Dr. Nada Stotland, a psychiatrist specializing in women's health at Rush Medical College in Chicago.

Dr. Stotland, thank you for joining us. What is postpartum depression and how does it get so severe that it gets to this point?

DR. NADA STOTLAND, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, most women have baby blues after they have a baby for a few days. It goes away by itself. Ten percent of women get depression, a clinical medical disease -- depression. And less than one percent have the depression so severe that they lose touch with reality. That's psychotic depression. And it's the same disease you have at other times of life if you've got a depression except that you're very preoccupied. The things that are on your mind are about being a mother and your children.

BATTISTA: Do we have any idea of what causes it?

STOTLAND: It's caused by changes in hormones. It also runs in families. And also, if have you one, you're at higher risk to have another one.

BATTISTA: So in other words, we don't really don't know. Is that what you're saying? It's a convergence of elements?

STOTLAND: It's a combination of factors.

BATTISTA: And if you have a past history of depression, I assume you're at much greater risk?

STOTLAND: That's true.

BATTISTA: And is it also -- does your monthly cycle or your history of that have anything do with it as well?

STOTLAND: People who have really bad PMS are at higher risk to have a postpartum depression and vice-versa, yes.

BATTISTA: When does it usually strike and how long does it last?

STOTLAND: It can strike up until six months after the baby is born. It lasts a good -- good, I say advisedly, bad seven months or more. That's really important when people get in treatment to continue the treatment even after they feel better, because if they stop the treatment, it can come back if that time hasn't passed.

BATTISTA: And what is the treatment for it?

STOTLAND: Mild or moderate depression, either postpartum or otherwise, can be treated with medication or with psychotherapy, or best of all, with both. If you have a severe case, you definitely need both.

BATTISTA: Let me go to the audience for a question quickly. We had one up here from Richard, I think that it was, wasn't it, or no?

RICHARD: I'm wondering what are some of the warning signs that a husband can look for in postpartum depression? And how can he maybe motivate a reluctant wife to seek treatment? STOTLAND: Those are really good questions. She going to not feel happy anymore. She's going to have trouble sleeping. She's not going to enjoy anything. She may lose her appetite. She may have no energy. And one of the dangers is, we think, "Well, she's a new mother, no wonder she doesn't have time to eat. Her sleep is interrupted. She's tired," et cetera. But we have to take those things very seriously.

If she's reluctant, I think the best route is to talk about the kids, because women who have postpartum depression do deeply love their children. They're just convinced that they're not able to be good mothers.

BATTISTA: When it gets to the postpartum psychotic stage, what are we really talking about here? I mean, how would you recognize that? And do you just completely lose all rational thought?

Often, people get very agitated, can't sit still, sort of out of it altogether, kind of distracted. And again, they may think -- they may not tell everybody what's going on in their minds, but they may be thinking that they're a horrible monster. They may be hearing voices that tell them to do something to the children, things like that.

BATTISTA: Melissa in the audience, question?

MELISSA: Yes. Doctor, would you have recommended Andrea Yates to have another child after she had already suffered such a severe postpartum depression?

STOTLAND: Well, let's be really clear that I can't talk about this specific case because I don't know Andrea Yates. But people can go on to have another child, in general, if they've had a postpartum depression, but we have to watch them really carefully. One of the things that we often do is put someone -- if medication helped them in the past, put them on that medication the moment they deliver that baby.

BATTISTA: All right, let me do a couple of e-mails here. This doesn't have a name on it, but it says, "I've had depression for years. It blinds and confounds all rational thought. You do things to the last person on earth that you'd ever want to hurt and you think that it's love. Moms need to know in their most desperate of times they can away and call someone, anyone, even 911 to take their burden from them."

Jonathan in Georgia says, "A mother that would knowingly drown her own children should be sentenced to death. So many actions are blamed on mental illness, when the individuals that commit those acts should be held accountable.

We have to take a break here. The question for the day is: What's it like -- oh, no this is not our question. We'll get to that in just a few minutes, but we will find out what it's like to go through postpartum depression in just a few moments. We'll meet a woman who has been there. Our question, though, for today is: Should Andrea Yates face capital murder charges? We'll talk with lawyers a little bit later on in the hour. That's our question in the TALKBACK LIVE viewer vote at CNN.com/talkback. AOL keyword: CNN. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: In 1998, a Houston jury found Yvonne Rodriguez not guilty by reason of insanity after she strangled her 4-month-old son to death with a rosary. Doctors testified on her behalf that she was psychotic or suffering from depressive disorder partially brought on by postpartum depression.

BATTISTA: As we continue here, let's listen to a little more of what Russell Yates told reporters about his wife this morning. In this segment, he talks about her recent behavior.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YATES: There were things that she did, you know, becoming withdrawn, more, you know, robotic in her behavior. You know, she had some nervous habits that she had, you know, particular to her. And so I, you know, I recognized it immediately and we treated it quickly. But, you know, what happened was just, you know, incomprehensible.

I mean, I just can't -- I, you know, looking back, you know, I struggled with it all last night. I couldn't sleep last night. I was like, you know, is there anything I could have done, you know? And also, what have I got to do. I mean, there's a lot to do, because I've got, you know, really two tragedies like my brother pointed out. You know, I mean, one is my children, the other is my wife. You know, I want her to recover, and it's going to be very hard for her to work through this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BATTISTA: All right, the doctor is still with us. And joining us now is a woman who has had first-hand experience with postpartum depression. Beth Turner developed it after the birth of her son.

And Beth, I know this isn't easy for you. Thanks very much for joining us today.

BETH TURNER, POSTPARTUM DEPRESSION PATIENT: You're welcome. Thanks.

BATTISTA: What were your symptoms, and at what point did you realize that something was wrong?

TURNER: I didn't really think anything was wrong. I came home and just thought I would pick up with my life how I left it off. And I was cleaning the attic like three days after my son was born -- that should have been a tip-off that something wasn't quite right. But it wasn't until maybe about 10, 12 days after he was born and I had a panic attack. I didn't know what it was. I just felt disoriented, wasn't sure what to do. And an ambulance came and took me, my son, and also my mom who was staying with us at the time to the hospital. And they still just said, you know, "I think you're dehydrated. I think you're a little stressed." You know, "Go home and take care of yourself."

And that was kind of the tip-off. And then a battery of tests, also going back to my own OB/GYN and really having them say, "We think that maybe you're just type A. Maybe you need a little bit of counseling to deal with anxiety. But that was really not the issue, and I...

BATTISTA: So it doesn't sound like anybody was really diagnosing this, necessarily, as postpartum depression, possibly even in the early stages here?

TURNER: You're correct. That wasn't -- that wasn't going on, no.

BATTISTA: And what other sort of feelings were you experiencing? And did they seem strange or alien to you?

TURNER: Yeah, like irrational fears, and, is something going to happen to me? And I think that part of the sickness is this thing of "what if" happens. And I think if you hear of other women being sick or having bad things happen to you, you almost don't have a defense mechanism. You think, "Well, that's going to happen to me."

And when I did call my doctor at one point, she said, "Have you ever thought about hurting yourself or your son?" And I said, "Well, I hadn't thought of that until you suggested it. And then it just kind of eroded more, and I just thought that maybe something would happen or I would hear about somebody taking their own life by leaving the car on. I thought, well, that could be me or somebody -- all kinds of thing that could happen to me. It was like there were no defense mechanisms. Those were -- that was some of the most difficult thing for me.

BATTISTA: I have some questions from the audience, but I was wondering, were there any other things going in your life that might have triggered this? Were there maybe past depressions or death in the family or any other environmental factors?

TURNER: There are. And I wish that maybe someone would have asked because there was some depression that ran in my family, some panic anxiety, obsessive-compulsive. There was some things. I had switched jobs recently. I was an anchor reporter in Chicago. Had switched from one station to another, and that was a very tension- filled switch, dealing with contracts, money issues.

My husband and I just bought our first home, so there were monetary issues. We were also trying to redo the whole home before the baby was born meaning ripping wallpaper and all that kind of thing. So absolutely, there were stressors that contributed to it. But I think that the long journey back could have been shortened had I either had been better educated or my own practice had been better educated.

BATTISTA: Question from Warren in the audience.

WARREN: Hi. I'd like to know that now that you look back upon this depression, what do you think could have been done to prevent it?

TURNER: I think that -- I mean, as a mom, as a woman, you do have to be educated. And those are things that are somewhat our responsibility is to know or to educate yourself. The other thing is is that I have found with my current practice, that they did ask questions about past depressions, they did ask questions about past complications with pregnancy. Those are questions I was never asked by my health care provider in Chicago at the time. That's why they're called providers. And I think -- I had gone back to ask some -- the leader of that practice and said, "Well, can you tell me a little bit more about postpartum depression?"

She went to a textbook to look up what it was and said, "Well, it's really baby blues." I'm like, you know, you're one of the largest providers in Chicago and you're looking at a textbook to try to educate yourself and the women. So that was twofold. I needed to be educated as well as my provider.

BATTISTA: Tamara, question?

TAMARA: What advice would you give a new mother in preventing this kind of circumstance?

BATTISTA: Well, and we should say, too, Beth that you are pregnant again. So you are going to go...

TURNER: Yes.

BATTISTA: You may go through this again, so...

TURNER: That is true. That is. I would say is establish as many long lines and as many lines of defenses as you can. To find out: has there ever been depression or other issues in your family? Have you ever experienced depression? If any of these things are -- you would be more susceptible to it. Who can come and help with you and the baby? Talk to your health care provider. What do they believe in as far as treating...

BATTISTA: Beth, I'm sorry. Forgive me for interrupting just a moment here.

Apparently, we have a development going on in another story that we've been covering all day on CNN. So we'll take you to Washington, D.C. where I believe the parents of missing intern, Chandra Levy, are speaking with the press.

SUSAN LEVY, CHANDRA LEVY'S MOTHER: ... cooperation of the police, and also the press and everyone in concern. I would like to tell you that I am very happy to have Mr. Billy Martin and his firm to help us and assist in this case. And we have a toll free number, which is: 1-800-860-6552. Anyone who has any information, please call that toll free number and talk to us in helping us bring our daughter home. There's also a Web site, and that Web site is: www.Levy@dejlaw.com. That's dejlaw.com. Thank you. I have no further comments.

QUESTION: Did the chief agree to upgrade the case?

BILLY MARTIN, ATTORNEY FOR THE LEVYS: This is still a missing person case. We remain optimistic that Chandra is alive. We want to bring back Chandra to her family alive. And we keep that hope alive on behalf of Dr. and Mrs. Levy.

QUESTION: Mr. Martin, Mr. Martin, forgive me. Forgive me for belaboring this. Is it your intention while the Levys are in Washington to meet with Congressman Condit?

MARTIN: We remain available to talk to Congressman Condit. We understand that he's placed a call to my law firm if he is available. Dr. and Mrs. Levy and I would love to talk with him. Again, because this is a very, very sensitive investigation, we ask all of you to please understand what it may feel like to be a parent to have a 24- year-old daughter missing for six weeks. We hope that anybody with information will call either the 1-800 number or the www Internet number that we referenced earlier. Again, Dr. and Mrs. Levy would have no further statement at this time.

QUESTION: If I may...

QUESTION: Can you clarify something you said earlier?

QUESTION: ... only because I know you don't want to discuss their travel plans specifically, but we do believe Dr. and Mrs. Levy are getting ready to go back to California this evening. Is there a chance that you could meet with the congressman between now and then that quickly?

MARTIN: I remain -- I repeat again, we will be -- make ourselves available whenever that is to meet with Congressman Condit.

QUESTION: There was something you said earlier that was unclear at the press conference. I believe you said Dr. and Mrs. Levy have known the nature of the relationship between their daughter and Congressman Condit. Is that correct?

MARTIN: That is what we stated. We will not go in any detail in what that relationship is. The congressman has indicated that they were friends. As a friend, we reiterate: Please come forward. Please meet with the police. Please tell anything that you can regarding Chandra. We have no further comments at this time. Thank you.

QUESTION: Are you still trying to have this upgraded?

MARTIN: Mr. Collins, we will try to -- we believe that the police department is doing all that they could possibly do right now, whether it be a missing person investigation or suspicion of foul play. We hope that they will maintain this investigation. Chief Ramsey -- I promised the chief that we would not -- I repeat his words. I would say that he views this case as a critical missing person, which means that they are looking with some degree of sincerity and effort to find Chandra. Thank you.

QUESTION: Is there any new information to come out of your meeting today?

MARTIN: Nothing further out of this meeting.

QUESTION: Bill, Pat's never been...

BATTISTA: The parents of missing Washington intern Chandra Levy meeting there with their attorney, Billy Martin, before reporters. The parents have been and their lawyer have been meeting with Washington police this afternoon trying to get that investigation upgraded from a missing person's case to a full-blown criminal investigation. And of course, they are trying to solicit any and all information that they can into the whereabouts of their daughter who's been missing now for about seven weeks or so. We will continue here in just a moment on TALKBACK LIVE. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Welcome back. We're talking about that tragedy in Houston, and we're talking with Beth Turner, who went through postpartum depression, severe postpartum depression herself.

And Beth, I apologize. We interrupted you there. And the question from Tamara had to do with what advice you would give new mothers. And we were talking to you about the fact that you are going to be a new mother again in a few months. And surely, this has crossed your mind whether or not you will go through this again. But you certainly know more now than you did the first time.

TURNER: Absolutely. And as far as the question -- and I would do it for myself now, too, would be to establish as many lines of defense as possible -- you know, family members, how can they help, who can help with you and the baby. If there's a religious group, a faith background, that's actually how I found out and was able to get help was actually through my pastor who came for a visit. That was the line of defense. There are national organizations, DAD, D-A-D, Depression After Delivery. They are able to help. Your health care provider, to ask those questions: What can you do? What do you believe in after a delivery? What would you do for me in the last trimester?

And I think that the most important part of all of this, and the most difficult, was to put pride on the shelf. You know, to say, you know, "I'm not doing so well. I'm not the picture-perfect mom right now. My house looks like a blender, and my child, sometimes I don't know how to control the baby. I don't know what to do." And just to admit that some days are not good, and what can you do to help.

And also, I think Richard was in the audience, and he had an excellent question, because a lot of the times the mother gets so submerged in this you can't see your way out. And that would be for family members to watch. And if this person is -- if the mom or the wife or the daughter is not acting normal, do not chalk it up simply to the fact that she's stressed out and a new mom. There might be an awful lot going on underneath that, and it may take some urging to get her to get some help.

BATTISTA: Let me bring Dr. Stotland back in here. I am getting an awful lot of e-mails from people who basically are saying there is no excuse for not getting help. And you know, you've got to get help.

I don't think they understand that Andrea Yates was getting help. Beth was trying to get help. What are some of the obstacles that these women are up against when they do get help?

STOTLAND: A lot of the people don't know about this, do they? That's why you are having the great show. As Beth said, some doctors don't even know about it. People don't want to admit it to themselves. We have to warn people just as we warn women after they deliver, you know, if you have a hemorrhage or something like that, you need to call the doctor.

This is not an uncommon disease, and that people should take it seriously.

BATTISTA: Question from -- I can't see that far. My eyes are not that good.

DUSTIN: Dustin.

BATTISTA : Dustin from Colorado.

DUSTIN: I was wondering, somebody mentioned it earlier, for the safety of the children, should the mother have been removed from the children, you know, to keep them safe? Do both the doctor and the other woman, do you think that that's very valid? I mean, do you think that that would have made it worse, separating them from the child?

STOTLAND: You know, hindsight is 20/20. And I don't think that we can -- none of us knows all the facts of this yet. We can't judge anybody in this case. They sound like they were all trying to do what was best.

There is a problem in this country in terms of, in general, in terms of getting enough care for people. A lot of managed care companies and so on won't let people get access to the care that they need. But I don't think that we will rush around, taking children away from their mothers.

I do want to comment on something that Beth said. Beth described so poignantly how it feels. And it's almost like you have no skin. Everything hurts, everything feels bad. But I also want to comment, she said that she sort of got the idea about harming somebody or harming herself from being asked that.

And almost all cases, it work the other way. It's really, really important to ask people that question. Are you thinking about harming yourself, or your children? 0 BATTISTA: Am I right in assuming, too, that it seems like the treatment is a little hit or miss, or that some experimentation has to go on there in order to find the right mix of medicine or therapy that will work?

STOTLAND: Well, no, therapy of any disease works all of the time. But we have really good treatment for postpartum depression and depression in general. That doesn't mean that everybody always gets them. Just like with every other disease, unfortunately.

BATTISTA: Let me give Beth the last word here. Beth, if there's one final statement that you want to make in terms of what we -- what we don't know and what we aren't understanding, about this condition.

TURNER: That education is critical. And for moms and families, or a mother who is in it, is that depression is deception. It's a lie. And it doesn't mean things have always been that way, nor does it mean that things will always be this way. There's a way out.

And there's a way to the other side. And it worked for me and I have faith that it will work again. So these extreme cases or situations where people do buy in, and believe that things have always been this way and always be, and the most important and critical thing is to get help before you buy into the lie.

BATTISTA : All right. Dr. Stotland, thank you very much. Beth Turner, thank you. We appreciate you coming in. Best of luck to you.

TURNER: Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

BATTISTA: Coming up in a moment: Is postpartum depression a valid defense in a murder case? We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Welcome back.

I just got this e-mail from Doris from Yorktown, Virginia who says:

"I came close to taking my own life, but could not leave my children behind because I knew no one loved them but me. I stood with the dresser drawer open, and my hand on the gun for hours, crying horribly, trying to decide what to do. I could not be sure they could die with one bullet, and I knew I could not shoot twice. I could not die leaving them behind, but I could not live. Do not judge postpartum depression of this depth unless you have experienced it. It is beyond the comprehension of a well person. It took a year to pull out of the depths."

With us now, former Texas prosecutor Nelda Luce Blair and Ted Williams, criminal defense attorney and former homicide investigator. They are both regulars on the syndicated show "Power of Attorney." Before I begin with you two, let's listen more of Russell Yates' interview with reporters this morning. This time he is talking about his wife's recurring depression:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YATES: To me, she fully recovered from the first depression. She had a recurrence after the second child, really the same symptoms, the same timing, both about peaking about three months after -- after having the baby, our fourth son Luke and then also Mary, our little girl.

And, you know, say they are related. The symptoms were the same. She was predisposed to getting this depression. I -- I think that is -- you know, they are related in that sense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BATTISTA : Ted, let me ask you this. Postpartum depression, we know, as we saw that little fact a moment ago, that it is used in England as a defense. Is it a valid defense here or not?

TED WILLIAMS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there are some factors. I think, certainly, if it can be shown that it is a mental disease as it is and I would believe there are defense of not guilty by reason of insanity, that is what they will plea I believe in this case, if it can be shown that she was at that time depressed under the circumstances.

BATTISTA : Nelda, we are learning a lot in this first half hour, that not as much is known about postpartum depression as perhaps should be, nor is it passed on to new mothers. Does that make it even harder to use it as a defense in court?

NELDA LUCE BLAIR, FMR. TEXAS PROSECUTOR: Oh, sure it does. Postpartum depression alone in itself, as you have stated, is not a defense in Texas or anywhere else in the United States. What is a possible defense, as Ted said, is not guilty by reason of insanity.

In Texas, the insanity defense is pretty clear. It's considered an affirmative defense to murder if the person at the time of the conduct, because of a severe disease or defect -- mental disease or defect -- did not know that their conduct was wrong.

And that's a lot different from just saying she had some depression, or postpartum depression, or psychosis. They have to actually prove that she didn't know it was wrong to kill her children.

BATTISTA: And how will they do that? Let me ask you both this, because she did call the police herself, and when the policemen showed up at the door she reportedly said, I've killed my children. Does that hurt her or help her?

BLAIR: Well, I suppose that if I was prosecuting her, that would certainly be the first thing I would present to the jury. If she didn't know what she was doing was wrong, why did she call the police, why did she call her husband and say, as I understand, you need to come home? Why did she do any of the actions that she did?

WILLIAMS: Well, if I was defending her, I think you are going to find that this case is going to the battle of the experts. They are going to have to put on experts to show how postpartum depression operates, and can you come in and out of it. And I think that that's what the defense is going to do in this case.

BATTISTA: Nelda, let me ask you, because you have worked down in Texas, what do you think the D.A. is going to?

BLAIR: Well, our D.A. is relatively new. His name is Chuck Rosenthal. He's an excellent attorney, an excellent prosecutor. He has been with the -- what will be the Harris County Attorney's Office for a long time. He will, I'm sure, make a meticulous investigation into her mental health. I'm sure he'll have more than one screening or testing done of her so that he can make the decision whether or not to seek capital punishment. That will be his decision to make.

BATTISTA: Do you think he's likely to go for the death penalty?

BLAIR: I think it depends on how his investigations come out. I will assure you that he is not afraid of going for the death penalty in the correct cases. And if he feels that this one merits it, then he will go for it. Under our statutes, on paper at least, it does merit a capital case.

BATTISTA: Do you -- I'm sorry, Ted, go ahead.

WILLIAMS: If I may, also, she is going to undergo a battery of tests with various sigh psychiatrist and psychologists. And it's going to be probably based upon what the state can glean from the facts as they know it in this case as to whether they go for death penalty or not.

BLAIR: I would agree with that.

BATTISTA: Comment from the audience as we go to break -- Vivian.

VIVIAN: I don't think it's the matter of whether she knew it was wrong. I think it's a matter of did she know what she was doing, mentally. You can't kill five children and say, is this right or wrong. She didn't know it.

BATTISTA: Good point. We will be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Last year Wade Feldman sued his wife's psychiatrist for wrongful death and negligent breach of duty after Elizabeth Feldman killed their two children while suffering from postpartum depression. He alleged the doctor failed to properly supervise his wife and allowed her to discontinue her medication.

During this morning's news conference, Russell Yates said he still supports and loves his wife. Let's listen to those words. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YATES: I support her. That's all I can say. As far as our relationship goes, I tried to think ahead. It's going to be awkward. I don't know how we could ever -- I don't want to think about it now, but as far as just the short term, I want to help her through this. I want to show her that I love her and support her and be there for her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BATTISTA: Ted and Nelda, let me ask you, how important is Russell Yates going to be, should there be any sort of trial in this matter, or other remaining family members? It seems to me if you put him on the stand he could both hurt her and help her.

BLAIR: I think there's no question about that -- go ahead, Ted.

WILLIAMS: Nelda, I'm in agreement with you. He could do both. But when it comes to a decision as to whether, how they are going to prosecute, I don't think they are going to take into consideration anything that Mr. Yates would say. They are going to have to look at the totality of the circumstances of this case.

BLAIR: I think that's true. The only thing Texas statute does allow for, is perhaps she may have had some past acting out, or some past episodes, or some past conduct, and a jury could hear that. That would be it. I'm with Ted. It's going to be the experts -- the experts, what they say.

BATTISTA: Let me go up to the audience here. A comment from -- is it Gerald?

GERALD: Legally speaking, how far are we actually going to go making excuses for various behaviors that we have? Eventually, 20, 50 years down the road I'm sure doctors will come up with reasons for most any behavior, whether it's chemical or not. And how far are we going to push it legally? WILLIAMS: If I may just comment, listen, with all due respect, there is something in this country called mental illness. There are people who are insane. And insane people do, in fact, commit crimes. And that has to be taken into consideration. It's unfortunate, but we do have mental illness in this country.

BATTISTA: Let me take Juanita on the phone from New York -- Juanita, go ahead.

JUANITA: Hi, I had this twice, 40 years ago and 37 years ago with my daughters. And it is a temporary mental illness.

BATTISTA: Tell us quickly, how severe was your postpartum depression and what kind of feelings were you going through?

JUANITA: I wanted to kill myself and my husband the first time. I wanted to jump out the window, I wanted kill my husband. I told him to call the police. I told him not touch me because I knew that I had the strength and I could hurt him. I was hospitalized for about six weeks. Altogether I was away two months. And after that I was very nervous, and gradually I was OK.

When I got pregnant the second time, the same thing happened, but they were aware of it. And I went straight from where I gave birth to the other part, where I was in the mental department.

BATTISTA: All right, Juanita, good for you. I'm glad everything turned out OK. Up to the audience here -- Michelle.

MICHELLE: My question is with this disease, this depression, I'm not real familiar with the exact time frame, but the husband goes to work, the mother -- the mother-in-law was supposed to come around 10:00. He had only been at work for an hour. Is this -- it just appears to me to be premeditated.

She had to kill five children within an hour's time. I mean, can you just snap when he walks out the door? I just don't understand how...

BATTISTA: In other words, you think enough time -- well, we don't know exactly. Ted, how do we know how much time -- when quote/unquote "snapped," or whether she had been planning this for a day or two.

WILLIAMS: And that's something that the prosecutors are going to have to take into consideration. We don't know what her state of mind was when her husband left for work that morning. We don't know what her state of mind was prior to that -- the day before. So all of these things are going to be taken into consideration by any prosecutor looking at this case.

BATTISTA: Nelda, any precedent in the state of Texas for this sort of case?

BLAIR: Well, I tell you, the insanity defense in Texas is not a defense that's used very often. It's very hard to prove that a person had no clue that what they were doing was wrong. But it just so happens we had case as recent as 1998 where a woman strangled her infant son.

She pled that she was -- had some mental defects, including postpartum but some others as well. And the jury found her not guilty by reason of insanity. But I will tell you that is highly unusual here in Texas.

BATTISTA: We have got to take a quick break. We will continue in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Couple of e-mails here. Michelle in Connecticut says: "Postpartum depression is a real disorder. It is not an excuse, though, for cold-blooded murder. She was rational enough to call police and then her husband, and she was rational enough to know what she was doing. She should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. God bless those children."

Chris in Maryland says: "I can fully understand that she truly came to the end of her rope and the rope wasn't connected to anything. Listening to her husband, he didn't fully understand the pressures on her. This poor woman needs help, not the death penalty. This is a tragedy."

Nelda Luce Blair and Ted Williams, thank you both for joining us. We appreciate your time.

WILLIAMS: Thank you for having us.

BLAIR: Glad to be here.

BATTISTA: More to come in this story, I am sure. And we will see you again tomorrow on TALKBACK LIVE. Join us then.

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