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CNN Talkback Live

NBA Draft: Robbing the Cradle?

Aired June 28, 2001 - 15:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(INTERRUPTED BY BREAKING NEWS)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KWAME BROWN, NO. 1 NBA DRAFT PICK: This is not high school anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kwame Brown from Glynn Academy, Brunswick, Georgia.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOBBIE BATTISTA, HOST: It's babes in pro land. Welcome to the NBA youth grab.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: I'm just living a dream right now. I think every kid who, you know, hasn't been where I'm at now would love to be where I'm at.

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BATTISTA: Kwame Brown is one of five high schoolers among the top 13 picks in the NBA draft.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK DALY, FORMER NBA HEAD COACH: They don't know what they're getting into. It's a tough job. It's a man's job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BATTISTA: Forget college. This is the world of instant fame, wealth and ego.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LENNY WILKENS, RAPTORS HEAD COACH: In most cases, guys lack the experience, or they lack, you know, the -- the mental, physical, emotional maturity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONNIE WALSH, PACERS GENERAL MANAGER: The young man has the right to do what he wants with his life, and we do it in other areas. I don't know why we would, you know, stop at basketball.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BATTISTA: It's true across the board, from tennis to hockey to baseball. But as pro sports weighs deep into the fountain of the youth, do these precocious kids lose something in the tradeoff?

Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to TALKBACK LIVE.

Kwame Brown, the first high school basketball player to be a No. 1 draft pick in the NBA, and chosen by none other than Michael Jordan. What a heady experience for a young man from Brunswick, Georgia.

How excited is he? Well, listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: When you heard your name last night, what was it like?

BROWN: Oh, man, I can't explain that. I mean, that was like a feeling -- I think the only other time I'll get that feel is when I hand my mom the keys to her own house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BATTISTA: Who needs college? Brown and other sports prodigies know about the game, but are they prepared for the fame, the money and everything that goes with it? Our guest today, assistant Atlanta Hawks coach, Rick Mahorn; former NBA player Bill Willoughby -- he was one of the first NBA players drafted from high school, back in 1975.

Guys, great to have you both with us.

RICK MAHORN, FORMER NBA PLAYER: Thank you.

BILL WILLOUGHBY, FORMER NBA PLAYER: Thank you.

BATTISTA: Bill, let me ask you something, what was going through that kid's head at that moment?

WILLOUGHBY: I think that it was the greatest experience that he's ever had. You know, you play basketball, and you get a chance to make a career out of it and do something that you know that you can do. And the same time you can help your family out, and I think that's just great. I have all the respect in the world for Kwame Brown and the rest of the guys that came out.

BATTISTA: And Rick, what happens next? And more importantly, what -- when do they show him the money?

MAHORN: Well, he'll probably show -- get the money when he signs his contract. But the thing is, they are going to jump into, like Chuck Daly reiterated, it's a man's league and they'll have to grow up really fast.

BATTISTA: Uh-huh. Are they ready for this, do you think?

MAHORN: Well, I mean, they put their names into the draft and they got drafted and now, let's see -- it's time to either put up or shut up and I feel that hey, when they get ready and get out there and battle against guys who are battle-tested, who are guys who have playing basketball most of their adult life and went to college, it will be -- it will be a hard thing to really grab. I mean, it's something bigger than what they don't really know yet.

BATTISTA: You know, there's two things that we are talking about here. One of them is whether they are mature enough athletically to play the game of basketball from high school into the pros. And then of course there's the money part of it. Are they mature enough and responsible enough to handle being multibillionaires overnight, and everything that comes with that?

Bill, athletically speaking, how difficult was the transition from high school to the pros?

WILLOUGHBY: It was pretty difficult because I was young and I was a skinny guy. But I was raw and I was talented, so all I really wanted to do was play ball, maybe get two-thirds of the game. And show myself...

BATTISTA: I am sorry, I have to interrupt just a moment, because we do have to toss to the news desk for a news conference from the attorney general. We'll be back.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

BATTISTA: Whatever we are, Lou. Thanks.

All right, Bill, I am sorry. You were in the middle of telling us whether or not it was a tough transition to go from high school basketball straight into the pros.

WILLOUGHBY: Yeah, it was tough, something that, you know, nobody never done before. And, you know, the practices and the training, you know, when you get into that is definitely a man's game. But as you get older, you get used to it, and this is where you want to be. And you just get a chance to do it earlier than you thought. So you -- you have to be ready.

BATTISTA: What about the other parts of the game? I know in 1975, maybe the contracts were not quite as loaded as they are today. But was there adjustment problems for you in terms of the money and the women and the fame and all of that kind of stuff?

WILLOUGHBY: No, not really. Not really. When you go in, you have the mentors. And when I came in, it was 18 teams and now there's 29 teams. So it was more of an opportunity for guys to come out. And I just adjusted to it. And you know, bought my mother and my family things, and you know, just asked the veterans what to do and they called me up and invited me to dinner and introduced me to women my age. And coming from the New York/New Jersey area, I was pretty much ready for it.

BATTISTA: So, Bill handled it well, Rick. I mean, that's not always the case. I mean, he listened to those older than he was, and he took advice and as we know, that's not always the case for a lot of these 18-year-olds.

MAHORN: You have to come in and be very respectful of the guys who's already been there. You can't come in there like you the biggest fish that all of a sudden I am here now, show me the money, and let's perform. Let's play ball. It takes a lot of discipline.

And once these young guys come into the league, they are going to have to know that there's a lot of discipline to prepare yourself for games. There's 82 games and it's not fun when you practice, you have to travel the next day. Have you back-to-backs. You miss sleep. Those things really takes its toll, and then you want to hang out with the boys and you want to be that person. You want to be a kid, sometimes you just want to relax and chill -- but the next thing you know, you have to be on point every day, because now you are making money and people expect you to you perform every night in and night out.

BATTISTA: Let me bring in another voice into the conversation here. Leonard Mungo is with us. He's a sports law attorney in Detroit.

Leonard, thank you for joining us.

LEONARD MUNGO, SPORTS LAW ATTORNEY: Happy to be with you.

BATTISTA: Let me -- let me quote something in my research that you said, and you correct me if I am wrong. But according to you, all black players are supposed to do is play good ball for the man and get paid. But in the process, they sacrifice the opportunity to better themselves and do something else besides play basketball. Do you stand by that statement?

MUNGO: Was that a quote I made?

BATTISTA: Yeah.

MUNGO: When did I make that quote?

BATTISTA: This is quoting Leonard Mungo of the National Rainbow Coalition.

MUNGO: Oh, that was some years ago. BATTISTA: Do you stand by that statement or not?

MUNGO: You caught me when I was young and hot there.

BATTISTA: Have you changed your mind?

MUNGO: Well, let me tell you -- well, let me make a statement that is a bit more contemporary and consistent with an accurate analysis of the economic landscape of the industry. I would say that these kids are faced with a choice of cashing in on the worth that they bring to the entertainment industry, be it college -- we are talking specifically, college basketball -- because they have a number of rules, from the NCAA rules, Big 10 rules, and then we have the athlete agent laws in all of the states, all designed to prevent these student athletes from benefiting financially from the talent, skill and the entertainment value that they bring to the game in the -- on the college level.

And many of these players see the only opportunity that they may have to cash in on what they bring to the table is to do it now, before perhaps they get injured. And that opportunity is lost forever.

Now, it's basically rooted in a system of what I call exploitation by the college industry. The college industry, as you know, has a contract with media for the March Madness, the tournament period, of $1 billion. And then, if you add up the value of the media contracts with the various other conferences around the country, that comes to about $1 billion, so that's not taken to...

BATTISTA: So, are you -- OK, I don't want to get lost here. Are you saying then that you think that it's fine, that it's better for these guys to go for the money at 18 rather than be exploited in the college arena?

MUNGO: No, what I am saying is if these kids were able to share in the value or a part of the value, even a small percentage of the value that they contribute to this billion -- over a billion-dollar industry, that they would be a lot less likely to jump out of high school and into the pros, which is where the gold is.

So I am saying, even though students who are injured when they are in college sometimes are unable to find work that they otherwise would be able to handle, were it not for that injury that they incurred in college. They don't even have a system for the workman's compensation for injured players in college. The level of compensation is not there that should be there.

It's a system of exploitation, and what is -- who benefits from it? Certainly not these students. If they can survive the college tour, then perhaps they can cash in.

BATTISTA: Well, then the whole idea, Rick, of going from -- from -- from high school to the pros doesn't help that situation, and it's pretty much -- it could sort of gut the college basketball scene? MAHORN: Well, it does. I mean, a lot of times the high school players that are the next college players to be, it kind of misses that -- like they said, it's the little farm system there, the maturity, they get a chance to interact, build up their socialization skills with people around them and know that, hey, I am getting mature at that particular level. But now colleges have suffered because now you don't know for maybe Tom Izzo who can go recruit, the next thing you know his players are leaving like after two years, one years, and all of a sudden, that becomes the recruiting process. Now, how do these teams get better?

BATTISTA: Let me go to the audience and see how they feel about it. Gwen, let me go to you first.

GWEN: Well, I think that drafting them straight out of high school denies them of some opportunities that they really do need. One of the things that it denies them of is the opportunity to mature and to be able to exercise the discipline and make the decision.

We all have choices, but in college, one of the things you gain, other than just an education, is being able to mature at a rate that's commensurate with growth. And they can make the decisions later on that they can't make when they are 18 or 19 years old.

BATTISTA: And Bill, does an 18-year-old, do they understand the value of that? Do they care about that?

WILLOUGHBY: I think it has to be told to them over and over. I mean, if you come out early, I don't care if it's after high school or one, two, three, years of college, you always can go back to college in the summer or after you finish, you know, playing ball in the NBA. And this is what I would hope that they will stress this to the players, to don't forget about the college just because you went to the pros and you're making all this money.

BATTISTA: All right. I have to take a quick break here. The question is: should the NBA draft players right after of high school? Take the TALKBACK LIVE online viewer vote, cnn.com/talkback. AOL key word is CNN. And we'll get the results a little bit later on the show. We'll be back.

In the second year of his $70.8 million six-year contract extension with the Lakes, Kobe Bryant and his wife are buying a $13.5 million home in California. The property features two four-car garages, a theater, 10 bedroom suites, a lake, bumper boats, water slides, man-made caves and a replica of a pirate ship.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Welcome back. A couple of e-mails here. Angie in Pennsylvania says: "For many of these young players, it's better to go into the pros instead of wasting a college educator's time on a student who is only there to play sports and not learn."

Doris in Colorado says: "Playing professional sports should be a means to an end, not the end. These kids haven't maturity to make good off-court decisions."

Joining us now is former college all-American center Len Elmore. Len played 10 seasons in the NBA, and is currently an attorney and ESPN analyst and president of Test (ph) University. Thanks very much, Len, for coming in.

LEN ELMORE, FORMER NBA PLAYER: It's my pleasure, Bobbie.

BATTISTA: There you go. Your fans are many. I think what is interesting about your experience was the fact that you were a player- agent for a while, and that turned out to be a disappointing, at the very least, experience. Tell us about that and why you quit.

ELMORE: Well, the disappointing element of it was the fact that we tried to sell a message of self-reliance and community responsibility, and to some extent it didn't take. There were so many self-interested people on the peripheral that players would listen to, as opposed to those of us who are professionals in the business. It became very difficult.

The other side of it also was that the state of the industry was such, it was so competitive that a lot of colleagues, so to speak, were willing to do anything to get clients, and quite honestly I refused to stoop to conquer.

BATTISTA: So, I'm guessing you don't think that this is necessarily a good thing in all aspects that 18-year-olds are going from high school to the pros and all that goes with that?

ELMORE: No, I don't think it's a good thing. Now, while I'm not going to ever deny the right of an individual to try and make a living and do the best that they can, I think in a broad sense what we're doing is sending message, a very unattainable goal for young people, particularly young African-American males, who now look at some of these guys, who are more than exception rather than the rule, and believe that they can achieve as well, they can forget about education, just focus on sports, when in reality, that is not going to be the avenue by which they can find success.

You know, one of the comments that you just read, the fact that you waste the college educators' time, the fact is I think that once kids get into college, understand the value of education. Whether or not they finish within four years or not, they still understand that there's a value to education.

You look at Shaquille O'Neal, with his enormous wealth, he still went back to school for eight years to get a degree. Why? Because he wanted to be an educated man, and I think what happens, once you receive that education, it permeates the rest of your life. You are able to be that self-reliant person that I spoke about earlier.

BATTISTA: Let me take a quick phone call from Michelle in New York. Go ahead, Michelle.

MICHELLE: Hi. My comment is for the sports attorney, in terms of what he was saying about college players not receiving enough compensation, they are at the educational institute for an education, not to be compensated. Their compensation is, you know, their free tuition for four years of college. And if they are injured before they can make it to the pros, then they should use that education they received for free to get a job and not worry about not being compensated from advertising or whatnot, for promotions that the college does.

BATTISTA: Leonard?

MUNGO: What's wrong with having both?

BATTISTA: OK. We will let it go at that.

Let me go back to Len -- and Rick, you can jump in on this as well. There has been proposals for there to be a minimum age in the NBA. As you know, David Stern, the commissioner, says it ought to be 20. Do you think that's doable?

ELMORE: I believe it is doable, again, with the cooperation of the NBA Player's Association. The fact is that the player's association is set up to be the collective bargaining agent for all players including prospective players. And I think if there is an agreement that is related to the job and that can be rationalized that experience, maturity have a positive effect on being able to complete the job I think it would withstand scrutiny. That's really what we are talking about right now.

MAHORN: There's two things: Spencer Haywood was the first person to make everybody who go can go hardship or can just jump high school into the pros. He did that. I understand you, Len, and I respect your opinion and there's also two sides to every coin.

I don't understand -- you can't stop a person from making a living anyway, so but it's the best to educate him, or, like you said, you have been in that business where you don't have to stoop low to get these people who are on your team or you want to represent these guys, and I know the little things agents do -- buy them cars, give them loans and things like that, and that's what kind of baits them in. The money is the lure.

But as long as you have good foundation and these children are coming in prepared for it. Kobe has his mother and father, Shaq has his mother. You still have that strong influence in there. If you have that strong influence in there, there shouldn't be anything you should worry about.

ELMORE: But Rick, the problem is when we take the exceptions. Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, those guys are the exceptions. They are not the rule. We haven't spoken about the guys who have made themselves available for the draft but weren't drafted in the first round, or didn't last the period of time. What has happened to them?

And again, we talk about understanding the value of education. You know, those are the things I think that are important. I'm not saying you have to stay all four years. I'm not saying you have to graduate within four years. But we have had stories about some of these young high school men who don't even know how to check into a hotel, who can't balance or reconcile a checkbook.

These guys have millions and millions of dollars and in this exploitive world, you know, that money is not going to last very long, because we know there are sharks out there. If Mike Tyson could lose $100 million dollars in five years, what is going to happen to one of these top draft picks with their eight, 10, $12 million over the next four years when the sharks get after them?

MUNGO: Well, the first sea of sharks are those in the college industry that are making $2 billion off of these children in college.

ELMORE: But that's not the issue. We're muddling the issue here.

MUNGO: That is the issue. That is a very...

(CROSSTALK)

BATTISTA: I tell you what, I have to go to break. I'm pushing a break here. But you know, Leonard, you raise a good point about college sports.

MUNGO: That is the only point.

BATTISTA: It's a good idea for another show for us to do. I have to go to a quick break here. Bill Willoughby and Leonard Mungo, though, thank you very much for joining us today.

What is sports radio saying about all of this? We'll find out when we come back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: A couple of e-mails quickly here. Mary in Michigan says: "Many of these kids have been socially promoted through school and exploited for their physical abilities. Education should be the priority. I'm embarrassed to hear some of these athletes talk on television."

This one does not have a name, but he says: "These young athletes will be playing with veterans who will sharpen their talents and prepare them as the next generation. College isn't for everyone. Take it from a dedicated fan with a four point GPA."

All right. We now welcome Steak Shapiro, host of "Mayhem In The A.M." on WQXI, 790 The Zone, here in Atlanta. In New York Steve Malzberg joins us, a radio talk-show host on WABC and a columnist for newsmax.com. Steve, Steak, good to see you. You have reservations about this, Steak, why? You are worried more about the college game.

STEAK SHAPIRO, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Yes, the college game, obviously, has been -- as a college basketball fan -- has been totally diluted. The days of James Worthy and Michael Jordan and great players playing together for even two, or three or four years are done because now 90 percent of the time if you have an opportunity to be a lottery pick and get in the lottery or be in the NBA, you are going.

So the days of watching these great college teams are done. But it's like Len Elmore said, what about the stories of the guys who weren't picked yesterday in the top five? What about a guy like D.A. Lane from Georgia who stayed for two years, got horrible advice that he could make it the NBA. He did not get drafted yesterday, he did not get invited to anybody's tryouts and he's headed for a future with no college, no NBA, and again, it's an agent thinking he may be able to get some quick money.

It's great if you are Kwame Brown or Kobe Bryant or Tracy McGrady, but for the high school kids getting bad advice, this decision is going to ruin the rest of their lives in some cases.

BATTISTA: So, Steve, do you punish the Kwames or the Kobes because the others might not make it?

STEVE MALZBERG, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No, this is just such a ridiculous issue. We have save these kids from themselves. We have to save these kids from having a million dollars in the bank because they will be cheated out of it by some shark. We have to save these kids, they need an education although they could go back for an education any time they want to.

This is not unique to the NBA. In the NHL, the players start at 18. They come right of high school. Many baseball players come right out of high school and are drafted by teams and never see a day of college. Why is it only in the NBA that this problem would exist or other problems would exist?

This is nonsense. If a kid is talented enough that he gets drafted, he is going to get at least one million or two or three in the bank. Take your life on from that point whether you make it, you don't make it. You have more money in the bank than the average person will ever dream of making. I think that's not a hardship by any means.

ELMORE: It's a question of keeping the money. That's one thing. The other side of it is, when you look at baseball, you look at the NHL, you talk about whether or not these guys go back to school, well, how many baseball players, how many NHL guys do go back to school?

And quite honestly, why are we talking about the NBA? Steve, I don't know from where you speak, but quite honestly I'm looking at the impact. And the impact is on African-American males and you don't get the understanding of the value of education until you get through that system. And that's really what it comes down to.

MALZBERG: They could go back if they want to go back.

ELMORE: But if they don't have an understanding of the value of education, they are not going to go back. It's the exposure.

MALZBERG: Well, what if they don't have to go back? What if they stay in school an break a leg and never have an opportunity to earn millions of dollars? What do you say to the kid then? ELMORE: Well, Kenyan Martin stayed in school for four years, had a horrendous break in his leg and had to rehab for almost a year. He was still picked No. 1, based on what he did over a four-year period.

MALZBERG: You are talking about a rare exclusive case here.

ELMORE: Steve, name me a guy -- the red herring of injury is the fact that you can't name a guy who's been injured that was a talented player who didn't get the opportunity to play in NBA.

MALZBERG: But your whole premises is so ridiculous. You have to save the kid from all that money because he may have it stolen from him.

ELMORE: Just like sports talk radio, you are going to expand the issue and make it an absurdity. But the fact is, it happens all the time. I was in the business. There are many guys in jail for stealing money.

MALZBERG: That's not a reason to deny a kid the opportunity.

(CROSSTALK)

SHAPIRO: My buddy in New York likes to yell a lot. He's good at that, they do that up there and think that it makes them right.

The reality is, a couple of things: First of all, they have developmental leagues in hockey and baseball. It's called the minor leagues. It doesn't exist in basketball. No. 2, like Len Elmore said, there has never been an example of anybody that stayed an extra year, broke their leg, broke their back, go paralyzed, got handicapped and lost money. It never happens.

(CROSSTALK)

MALZBERG: Bobbie, what possible negative is there? A kid is good enough to be drafted. He's drafted. He has two million bucks in the bank. If he doesn't make it, he has two million bucks in the bank and he goes to school if he wants to. Where is the negative here. Where?

ELMORE: The negative are the kids who will never be able to attain that, but believe they can because we hold up the exception as opposed to the rule.

MALZBERG: So you deny it from really happening?

ELMORE: We hold up the exception as the rule.

SHAPIRO: Where is your money if you are drafted in the second round there's no guaranteed money. I you are drafted yesterday in the second round and you are not going to make it as a high schooler, where is your $2 million? There is no guaranteed money. If you are not drafted in the first round there's no guaranteed money. Why do you keep talking about guaranteed $2 million. MALZBERG: Because these people -- we are talking about the high schoolers that went in the first round, and they are guaranteed money. They have got money in the bank. They can always go back to school. This a ridiculous -- there is no negative. You are saying it is going to set a bad example for African-Americans -- so you deny those African-Americans who can get the money? That doesn't make any sense.

ELMORE: We are not saying deny it, maybe delay it. How about delaying it. How about delaying it?

MALZBERG: What right do you have to delay it for that person?

ELMORE: It's not my right. We are trying to set an example here. It would take all of us, Steve, including you.

BATTISTA: Let me take a phone call from Lamaz (ph). Go ahead, Lamaz.

LAMAZ: Yes. My comment is that I think it is wrong to draft these kids out of high school, but I think it's ironic that the press only plays up African-American males going to the NBA. So-called white kids go the major league baseball. You don't hear stories about that. It is a case of the haves not wanting the have-nots want to catch up. I think it is a class warfare that's going on and I think it's ridiculous.

MALZBERG: Wait a minute, I'm white and I'm defending the NBA players here.

LAMAZ: It doesn't matter what color you are that you are defending. It's still, as the gentlemen said, it takes away from the aspect of getting an education. It takes away from the aspect of those individuals that have been deprived, now you are creating a class of individuals that don't know what to do with the money, and then also are being thrown a lot of money and they have shoddy agents. It's ridiculous that you are not reporting about those individuals that are going to major league baseball and hockey.

MALZBERG: I mentioned it. Imagine if I, as a white person, came on and said oh, we can't let these black players go to the pros. They won't handle their money. They'll will have it stolen, they'll be cheated. You would you say I'm racist. This is ridiculous, your arguments. They're insane.

ELMORE: First of all that's absurd, Steve. Secondly, a better understanding of the sports industry might change your argument. But the fact is you talk about impact -- we talk about impact -- how many young white players were drafted in the first round out of high school?

BATTISTA: I have to take a quick break here, gentlemen. I'll be back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: We only have about a minute or so left here but, Chris, as always, it amazes us that there is someone in the audience who is so apropos to this story. We have a mom and her daughter in the audience. Her daughter is an ace tennis player who's in town for a tournament.

I don't know, Carrie, does she have potential to hit the pro circuit, and would you let her go at any age if she could?

CARRIE: Well, Tiffany keeps improving as the years go on. Her rankings have risen to No. 9 in the United States. And if Tiffany has the ability to become a tennis pro and that is what she want to do, as hard as she has practiced and all the time and energy that she has put into tennis, I could not deny that.

BATTISTA: Would you skip college?

CARRIE: If she had the ability to do that I would be all for it. However, that is something she will know. And I think that the kids that have the ability to do this are one out of a million. There were -- what, five people -- in the whole NBA draft out of college...

BATTISTA: High school.

CARRIE: ... out of high school, out of thousands that would like to be that. So that just shows you right there that that number is very, very small.

BATTISTA: You guys, we are completely out of time. I wanted to check the online viewer vote before we go. The question was today: Should the NBA draft players directly out of high school? 36 percent of you are saying yes, 64 percent are saying no.

Thank you all very much for joining us. Rick, Steak, Steve, thank you very much. Len Elmore, thank you very much. Well see you again tomorrow for more TALKBACK LIVE.

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