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CNN Talkback Live

Will Condit's Conduct Help Police Find Chandra?

Aired July 27, 2001 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it is unethical, frankly, for a congressman to have a relationship, sexual relationship with an intern.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I cannot say that he is either a suspect or has more information.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People crashing the borders, breaking the law, getting ahead of the line.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would not describe the focus of the program as being some kind of olly olly income free amnesty.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we were to come back on our show after the baby is born and help to announce the name and tell the world: here he is, this is our new son and his name is -- and we unveil it.

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RINGO STARR, MUSICIAN: I do think if anything was going to happen, maybe I would have got the call.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are very happy, and we will get married some time next year.

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BOBBIE BATTISTA, HOST: What we all need is a little free-for-all Friday.

Good afternoon. Oh, my goodness. Don't fail me now!

OK. OK. OK. God, see happens when we pay you to do that? Just kidding.

Welcome to free-for-all Friday. And we do kick it off with the story that's dominating the news, for better or for worse, Congressman Gary Condit and missing intern Chandra Levy. Condit is back on the Hill today, where some House members are calling for a new ethics rule: no sex between representatives and interns. Condit spoke with the FBI and the D.C. police investigators last night. They all met in Condit's attorney's office. Police sources say the congressman agreed to help develop a psychological profile of Chandra.

Our free-for-all panel today includes: in Los Angeles, Martin Lewis, a political commentator and columnist. He is a contributor to Time.com. Martin, good to see.

MARTIN LEWIS, TIME.COM COLUMNIST: Good to see you.

BATTISTA: In Washington, Armstrong Williams is with us, host of "The Right Side With Armstrong Williams" for Talk America radio network. His latest book is "Beyond Blame: Moving Beyond Being a Victim." Armstrong, always good to see you.

In Atlanta with us -- this is a treat for us -- political comedienne Kate Clinton happens to be in town. She is a former writer on "The Rosie O'Donnell Show" and the author of "Don't Get Me Started." Great to have you here, Kate.

KATE CLINTON, POLITICAL COMEDIENNE: Good to be here.

BATTISTA: And in New York, Mike Gallagher, a syndicated radio talk show host on the Salem radio network. Mike, good to see you too.

MIKE GALLAGHER, SYNDICATED RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, Bobbie. Good to see you too.

BATTISTA: OK. So, I'm trying to -- I am just trying to picture this: we need a rule to keep congressmen away from 20-year-old interns? What is that all about, Armstrong?

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, TALK AMERICA RADIO NETWORK: Well, I bet Congressman Condit wishes it was in place three or four years ago. He would not be having the problems and the kind of trauma that he's having in his life right now. You know, actually, something needs to be done. I think members of Congress should be held to a different standard. Many of these interns come to Washington, D.C. all giddy, full of hope and aspirations about the fact that they just can lay an eye on a dignitary that they've seen on television, and many times when these congressmen say something to them, they are just -- they are flattered, they will do anything to just get the attention of a congressman or any celebrity.

And I think what happens is that they exploit these interns, and one of the things they must do is use some of their members to play interference to find out whether or not the person can be trusted, and whether or not the person is interested in spending time with the congressman, and not thinking that she is going to be a blabbermouth and go back and tell their parents, when it could kind of become explosive.

So, I think to protect the interns and to protect the country from the kind of situation we are in right now, I don't know if a law -- passing a law is what's necessary, but something needs to be done to kind of stop this outrageous behavior.

BATTISTA: Isn't it amazing, though -- isn't that amazing, though, Kate, that we have to -- it's come to this point where, you know, you send your kid off to be an intern in Washington, D.C., where you think of all places, they would be safe.

CLINTON: Well, it turns out that D.C. is a very dangerous place for women.

BATTISTA: Yes.

CLINTON: I think what we should do is get all the guys out of D.C. for a while, just let the women run the thing, and I think there wouldn't be -- thank you very much.

(APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: You know what, Mae West -- Mae West once said, you know, "most men want to protect me, can't figure out from what."

GALLAGHER: Oh my God. You know, that's so sad, and the scary part is, there are people who really do believe that.

BATTISTA: Why is that sad?

GALLAGHER: It's pathetic. I mean, you know what amazes me about this? It's easy to say that Gary Condit is a pig, but you know what is even more pathetic are these young women -- and they are women, they are not little girls. Chandra Levy wasn't a minor. This is a woman who was knowingly engaged in a ridiculous, illicit affair with this pig of a man, she's telling her aunt stories about it, and the aunt is saying, go rearrange his closet.

Listen, our heart goes out to the family of Chandra Levy, but please, don't act like women are the victims, and Chandra Levy -- or any woman like Monica or Chandra, having an affair with a powerful married man is some kind of a little, innocent victim. She knew what she was getting into, Monica knew what she was getting into, and Washington is not unsafe for women anymore than it is for men who fall prey to these vixens.

CLINTON: Where are you living?

GALLAGHER: It's true. It's true.

CLINTON: Where are you living?

GALLAGHER: New York City.

CLINTON: Come to D.C.

GALLAGHER: Oh, come on. It's not about that, I mean -- you know, this feminism is not going to play, I mean, middle America doesn't agree that women are somehow these little victimized -- little innocent, naive women. These women know what they are doing, they are after married men.

CLINTON: Well, I think...

WILLIAMS: I don't think it's really fair -- and Mike, you know, I respect much of what you said, but look, even though these women are gullible, some of them are naive and some of them are very manipulative, you are talking about men who are old enough to be their fathers and some to be their grandfathers.

Someone has to sometimes teach women what it's like to be a lady, by saying, no, that may be your desire, but it's certainly not mine...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: ... and we look to our members of Congress to set that example, so you know, so you can't blame these women. You have a point there, but it's ultimately the responsibility lies with the member of Congress, I'm sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

GALLAGHER: ... a law is so absurd. I mean, there is not going to be -- you can't legislate the way these men and women act. They are despicable and they are reprehensible, and you can't have a law to pass it, that's just lip service on the part of an embarrassed Congress.

BATTISTA: Let me get Martin in here.

LEWIS: Yes, I was going to say that well, first of all, I hate to find myself even in remote agreement with Mike Gallagher on anything...

GALLAGHER: That a boy, that a boy, it's about time you came around. LEWIS: But there's some really irresponsible behavior on behalf of women. In the last few weeks, we've seen conservative pundits, such as Laura Ingraham and Anne Coulter, mercifully missing from our screens since the witch hunt -- I mean, impeachment of Bill Clinton, and suddenly they are expressing all this concern for a missing person.

There are thousands of missing people in America that they have never referred to, but suddenly I know what this is about -- the person they are missing is Bill Clinton. They don't have Bill Clinton to kick around, so they are using the Chandra Levy story to attack a Democratic president. It is really shameful that they are exploiting a missing person for political purposes.

BATTISTA: You think that's what's going on, Armstrong?

WILLIAMS: Absolutely not. I mean, guys, give me some of that what you're on today, because obviously I didn't get any of it. I mean, come on! No one is -- the only -- what is really exploitative is the fact that a young lady is missing -- I'm not disagreeing that they bear responsibility, but ultimately Congressman Condit lied. He barely knew the girl in the beginning, that he said that she would drop by the office, and then he had to admit to the fact that he had a sexual relationship with her.

Once you go down that slope erode where people cannot believe what you say, then you cannot be trusted in anything you say, you are a suspect.

GALLAGHER: He is so politically done, stick a fork in him, he shouldn't be able to get elected dog catcher of Modesto after his despicable behavior.

LEWIS: For lying -- if we are going to hold people to account for lying, there will be no congressmen and no senators. Maybe that would be better, but let's not be hypocritical. They all lie, it's a question of...

GALLAGHER: This coming from a guy who called the Clinton impeachment a witch hunt. I mean, Martin, we know what side your bread is butted on. -

(CROSSTALK)

LEWIS: The same side as the majority of Americans, as you well know, Mike.

GALLAGHER: Well, the majority of Americans make a lot of mistakes. We did put the bum in office twice, but now thankfully the adults are back in charge in Washington, and...

CLINTON: Please, please, please, no, no, no.

LEWIS: You mean President Dick Cheney, I presume.

CLINTON: No, no, no. BATTISTA: I'm not sure we can assume that anyone is an adult just by their political affiliation, because there have been guilty parties on both sides of the aisle with this.

CLINTON: I think this whole thing is a diversion. I mean, I think people are paying attention to this, and what we should be paying attention to is how the world is uniting against us. In fact, Bush was a uniter not a divider, you know, and Europe is united against us, Russia and China are talking for the first time, but we are not paying attention to that.

I think we should allow the police to do their work, and not spend so much time doing interviews on television about it, and really find out what happened. That's what I'm concerned about. I'm really concerned about the family, I'm concerned about what happened to this young woman, and other young women that no one ever looks for.

BATTISTA: But examining -- examining the congressman's private life, are you saying that you don't think that's helpful to the investigation at all?

CLINTON: No, I think we can look at some -- but privately, like you know, just interview in private. We don't need to know the lie detector test, we don't need to see his idea of the profile.

BATTISTA: But we want to know, don't we?

CLINTON: No, I really don't. Just figure it out and get back to me.

WILLIAMS: You know, there's a difference -- there is a difference, you know, guys. I mean, a young lady is missing. I would think that no matter what indiscretions the congressman were ashamed of and did not want his constituents to know about, one could assume that he would put that aside and do what was in the best interest of this missing person, to help authorities before authorities ever came to him. But what he did is just totally dismissed her as if she were just another playmate of his.

LEWIS: And here she is, still missing, and maybe if he had come forward with whatever information he had about her during that critical time, then we may be further along in this investigation. I just think the congressman's actions is just inexcusable.

WILLIAMS: Armstrong, the police have made very clear repeatedly that they do not regard him as a suspect in this.

GALLAGHER: Oh, baloney! You don't think he's a suspect? Come on, are you kidding me?

LEWIS: I'm talking about what the police chief has, Police Chief Ramsey.

GALLAGHER: That's the official statement.

LEWIS: And hold on a moment. Police Chief Ramsey has to be taken seriously. I've never seen so much gold braid on a hat since, I mean -- It's unbelievable.

(LAUGHTER)

LEWIS: You have to take this man seriously.

GALLAGHER: Martin, if you think he's not a suspect, you're still trying sell the London Bridge to some of us gullible Americans. Grow up. Come on, this guy is a suspect.

LEWIS: Well, we did.

GALLAGHER: That's why they've interviewed him four times and that's why the police absolutely looking at his illicit behavior. He's a liar and a serial adulterer.

BATTISTA: What do you suppose they thought they'd -- that he would be able to contribute after a fourth interview, here. I mean, he hasn't been terribly forthcoming, as we know, in the beginning. I mean, I'm just kind of wondering, four interviews later.

GALLAGHER: That's right, Bobbie. They want him to snap, they want him to crack. They want to wear him down. Now they want to bring the wife in. I mean, the wife goes to Washington, D.C. the same week that Chandra was missing. The wife, of course, saying now, or published reports that she would kill herself before she ever let him leave her. I mean, this whole thing is sordid, but...

BATTISTA: Where was that published? We're not reporting that here on CNN just yet, but...

LEWIS: You know, we are seeing so many ridiculous conspiracy theories that I've seen forth. The only one they haven't come up with yet -- I'm sure Fox News channel will get around to this -- is the strangers on a train one. You remember the Hitchcock film where one person does one person's murder? Where was Robert Blake? That's what I think we should be asking.

(LAUGHTER)

GALLAGHER: No, no, it's Clinton. Bill Clinton had something to do with it, you mark my words.

CLINTON: No, Ralph Nader did.

BATTISTA: You guys are off the charts today. All right, we've got to take a break here. We'll continue with this subject in just a minute, but a little later we will talk about former Beatle Paul McCartney's fiancee. At 33, is she a might young for him? Take the TALKBACK LIVE on-line viewer vote at cnn.com/talkback, AOL keyword CNN. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: A couple of e-mails here. Herb in New York says: "For the good of the Democratic Party and his constituents, and in light of his behavior throughout this tragedy, Gary Condit should resign and be charged with obstruction of justice."

Craig in New Jersey says: "The Condit silence speaks volume."

Ruth is on the phone. Ruth, go ahead.

CALLER: Yes, hi, Bobbie. I think women should start presenting themselves as role models. They have as much power as men, and sometimes more. Because they use their (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in their bodies, and I think women should be held accountable for things. They want to break the glass ceiling and they don't want to take responsibility for anything. Thank you.

GALLAGHER: Good point.

BATTISTA: Yes, but up to a point. I mean, a 20 -- we were just talking with the audience here during the break, that a 24-year-old woman, yes, she is a woman, but you don't make the same decisions at 24 that you make at 53, and you don't approach them in the same way. When you're that young, you might know that something is wrong, but you go for it. When you're 53, hopefully you've reached a point in your life where even though you want to go for it, you know it's wrong and you don't.

GALLAGHER: There are women who are so savvy and so shrewd at 24, and this is the same cry that some people had after -- during the Clinton-Monica Lewinsky debacle, that this poor Monica is somebody's daughter. Monica said she was going to Washington with her presidential knee pads. I mean...

CLINTON: Please!

GALLAGHER: Well, that's what she said. I mean...

CLINTON: And we're now blaming the woman? We're now blaming the woman. This is an interesting twist.

GALLAGHER: Do you think Monica is blameless in her affair with President Clinton?

CLINTON: I don't want to talk about Monica. Would you give it up!

GALLAGHER: Well, it's true.

CLINTON: Give it up! This is not about Monica.

(APPLAUSE)

GALLAGHER: Well, let me ask you. How about the question, Kate, do you think Chandra is blameless in having an affair with a married man?

CLINTON: I think this is an absolutely ridiculous conversation to be having. We should be out looking for Chandra, or trying to find out what happened to her. Not, like, psychologizing about what happened to Chandra and is she a victim, is she innocent? I don't care. We used to elect people. Now I think what we're doing is we're trying to smear people and get rid of them.

We used to elect people. Before this current election, we would get rid of people by election. But not anymore. Apparently you smear people and change the balance of Congress that way. And I'm just not in favor of it at all.

GALLAGHER: I hope and pray she's on an island somewhere in the Bahamas, sipping a Mai Tai and laughing at all of us. I really hope, obviously, nothing's happened to her. But I just don't think...

CLINTON: Say that again.

GALLAGHER: I don't think you can ignore her behavior.

CLINTON: It's pointless.

LEWIS: Can we talk about some proportionality in this country? While it is distressing that this young lady is missing, and there are thousands of others missing, during this time, George Bush has refused to ratify a treaty outlawing biological weapons. The environment is being sold off to the people who bought President Bush's election. We are having campaign finance reform, which everybody really wants in this country -- has been railroaded. Can we talk about those issues a little bit? I think that's important.

(APPLAUSE)

BATTISTA: Let me go to George -- what was that? Let me go out here to Georgie Anne in the audience.

GALLAGHER: Excuse me, I'm falling asleep on those topics, yeah, campaign finance reform.

CLINTON: Well, wake up.

LEWIS: It just happens to be important for America, actually.

BATTISTA: It is important...

GALLAGHER: Important for you in Britain, maybe, but we don't care.

GEORGIE ANNE: Boo on all of what they're saying there. I'm agreeing with you. I feel really badly about the Levy family and what has happened to her, but -- we were going to talk about being 59 and 33. I'm going to be 59, and I'm looking for my 33!

(LAUGHTER)

CLINTON: Move on, America.

BATTISTA: Well, I guess if we don't want to talk about his personal life and his affairs, which, you know, we understand may not be pertinent at all to this investigation to where Chandra Levy is...

(CROSSTALK) BATTISTA: We don't know. That's the point, we don't know.

WILLIAMS: I think pattern is very important in this process. I mean, it seems as though Gary Condit had a veracious appetite for young women. I mean, they keeping falling off -- like somebody's shoe rack.

CLINTON: Completely mysterious. I mean, I look at him and I think, whoa, hold me back.

WILLIAMS: And if you don't investigate, I mean, there are some things that they may convey in these relationships that he's had with other women that may help in the finding of Chandra Levy. I think everything -- once you go down that path and decide to sleep with an intern and you lie about it in the beginning, I think your life becomes an open book.

GALLAGHER: That's right.

WILLIAMS: I'm not so much interested in his personal life. I'm interested in finding Chandra. And if it takes an investigating every aspect of his personal life, so be it, as long as we find that girl, which I don't think we will.

LEWIS: Armstrong, I don't think -- I mean, of course people want to find the girl. But the way that they've had so much attention, it is just the way the media brought about JonBenet, O.J., JFK Jr., and all of these things -- Princess Diana -- this is disturbing, to have this amount of attention.

And then you start getting instant new media celebrities, like Anne Marie Smith, a woman whose prime expertise is distributing peanuts and making sure that our tray table is in the upright position. Suddenly she's pontificating about the judicial system!

Come on! Let's move on.

GALLAGHER: Bobbie, I've got to say, I love how a guy like Martin...

(BELL RINGING)

(CROSSTALK)

BATTISTA: Ringing the bell.

GALLAGHER: ... "Weekly Sun" and the British tabloids, Martin, come on.

BATTISTA: I think we've squeezed enough blood out of this turnip for today.

CLINTON (singing): We are the world -- come on everybody -- we are the children...

BATTISTA: We've got to take another break here. When we come back: legalizing illegal immigrants. Are Mexicans getting preferential treatment by the president? We're moving on. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: And that little story there was apropos of nothing.

All right, it's estimated that some 4.5 million Mexicans are living in the United States illegally. Now, at the request of Mexican President Vicente Fox, U.S. President George Bush is talking about granting them some form of amnesty. And taking that a step further, he wants to give Mexicans and Canadians special status, allowing more immigrants from those countries to enter the United States.

Can we start with Martin and Kate on this. Are either one of you in favor of this idea conceptually, if you leave -- if we can leave politics out of it for just a moment?

CLINTON: Conceptually, I'm in favor of it. I'm in favor of -- you know, with some rules and some ground rules, I think that the -- I think it's a wonderful idea. I think there have been people working here forever, and they should have some of the rights and some of the protections that citizens have here.

But I don't see it -- you know, my view is fairly skewed because of the recent election, so I think that it's really quite a bald vote- getting thing.

BATTISTA: Martin.

LEWIS: Yes, well first of all, before Mike and Armstrong try to get me thrown off the show, that's my green card, I am legal.

GALLAGHER: Somebody check his card.

CLINTON: Here's my green shirt.

LEWIS: Yes, let me say this: I think we should be fair to George Bush. George Bush is a man of great compassion and concern, and his compassion and concern is to be reelected in 2004. To do that he needs minority votes.

He can't depend on African-American population because 92 percent of them at the last election were smart enough to see through him. So he's looking at Hispanic vote. This is a deeply cynical thing; he tried to woo the Hispanic vote. But when he met the Spanish prime minister, he couldn't even manage to pronounce his name correctly, and that was just two syllables. So this is a cynical move.

BATTISTA: Armstrong, is there -- I think some concerns are that there's a message that might be given across here that it's OK to break the law if you go for an amnesty program of some kind.

WILLIAMS: I mean, the agency of naturalization and immigration has spent years making sure that people come to this country legally. And also, I mean, what about the number of people who have been waiting for years in line just dying to come to this place we call America, and then all of a sudden we can say we are thinking about the possibility of granting amnesty to Mexicans to come into this country.

I really don't -- I don't see how it could work. And there's just so many issues that surround it, but I do think that President Bush, unlike some of my colleagues, I don't think that his actions are suspect. I think he does have a lot of compassion. I think he's a very decent guy. I think he's sincere. And I really respect the leadership, and especially the ethics that he's restored to the White House.

But on this issue, I just don't think it's something that's well- thought-out. I think it's something that his advisers are really going to have to take a closer look at. But I just -- I don't see how it can work.

BATTISTA: On the other hand, Mike, though, the immigration policies that we have now aren't exactly working either.

GALLAGHER: Well, it's true, and we have to struggle with this. But, you know, liberal loonies like my buddy Martin there aside, most Americans don't think that this is a cynical move on President Bush's part. He is truly trying to accommodate President Fox's request to look at this.

And, you know, that's what kind of guy he is. He's not driven, necessarily, by an agenda. And then the liberal cynicists who are on this program this afternoon, you know, don't get it.

The bottom line, though, is I'm a huge supporter of President Bush, as you might have guessed. But I'm real worried about this whole idea. Millions of Americans abide by the law. Millions of us do everything we can to abide by the law and do the right thing. These are millions of Mexican immigrants who are law breakers. They're here lawlessly. You know, the sovereignty of America is being broken down day-by-day.

And the whole idea that the president or this federal government would wave its hand and make a bunch of law breakers legal is overwhelming to me. I'm shocked that he's even considering it, and I hope and pray that he goes in the other direction and says, listen, you want to be a legal immigrant in this country, do what many of our ancestors and forefathers and forebears did, and do it legally, do it the right way, acclimate to America, learn the language and be an American citizen, not somebody here illegally.

BATTISTA: Let me get some reaction. I've got some folks from Canada and Texas in the audience.

Is it David? Go ahead.

DAVID: Yes, I just -- being from Canada, I know there are Canadian immigrants who are working illegally in the United States, but nobody's talking about them. And I wonder if some of this discussion is maybe a little bit racially motivated. I mean, it seems to be that it's only because they're Mexicans. And if you think that if you think about it, these people have been working here for years. What is it that makes the country? A country is made by the people who built it. They have been here for years, building this country, doing jobs that people don't want to do -- picking your fruit and doing your work. They built this country too, time to let them in. That's what I think.

WILLIAMS: But I think -- but I do think sincerely -- and I understand that you may see that an "ism" is associated with this discussion, but I don't think Mike or I are, in any way, trying to be anti-anybody. I think it just has to do with the law. I just think that for decades and decades and decades we've had a system in place -- yes, it isn't perfect -- but I don't think you can just declare all of a sudden that you're going to allow certain groups to just come in this country...

GALLAGHER: That's right. And we're pro-American...

WILLIAMS: We are pro-American.

GALLAGHER: This is country, we not anti-Mexican. Listen, I got to tell you, if you're an illegal immigrant from Canada, I think you ought to get your butt shipped out of here too, or figure out how to get here legally...

(CROSSTALK)

LEWIS: The only people who are actually...

(CROSSTALK)

GALLAGHER: ... matter of law.

LEWIS: The only people who are entitled to be Americans in this country are the native Indians, who were here first.

I happen to think that this is one of the great things that makes America so great, is its enlightened attitude towards immigration, and the fact that this country has been built by people from all countries all over the world. And that's what is special.

But I would defy -- I realize that Armstrong and Mike have no real reason -- they cannot understand why their beloved president is doing this or considering it. And find me another reason other than politics, and I will listen. But there is no other reason.

WILLIAMS: I think Mike Gallagher had it right. I think he's trying to find a way to try to meet the requests and look into what the president...

GALLAGHER: President Fox, an ally of ours...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: ... and that's all he's doing. But it doesn't mean that he's going to move forward on this, but he's just exploring it. BATTISTA: Let me go -- let me take Russell on the phone in Pennsylvania, and then I'll do you guys from Texas -- or Washington State, rather.

Go ahead, Russell.

CALLER: Yes, I've got a question from any of the people on the panel. My question is, you know, if you're going to give amnesty to all these Mexicans, you know, what are you going to do with all of the other people that want to flood into this country? You can't discriminate and say only Mexicans or Canadians can come into this country...

BATTISTA: No. And actually, the White House today did say that they were entertaining extending this to other immigrants as well.

GALLAGHER: Oh, great. Let's let everybody in. I mean, it's fascinating to me.

BATTISTA: We are the world.

LEWIS: The protest we are going to hear from the conservative side, Bush can afford to do this because the conservatives will have no other candidate to support in 2004, and then Bush will deliver them all their right-wing agenda in his the second term. So he will go ahead, I believe, and do this and you will put up with it but you won't vote against Bush. You will be happy with what he tries to do.

WILLIAMS: I think you are so blinded by your angst against the president that you can't even see or think clearly on this issue.

(CROSSTALK)

BATTISTA: Let me get the last word to Latona (ph), from Texas.

LATONA: I think that there's got to be some kind of stipulations. I don't believe in just opening the doors and letting everybody in. And like I said, he hasn't given us a process by which he will say, this person can and this person can't. So what are we going to do? Are we just going to say, come on in?

(BELL RINGING)

BATTISTA: There's the bell. We've got to go. Take a commercial break, when we come back, there was something in the way this story moved, one day George Harrison was dying, the next day he wasn't. My sweet lord, what will they be gossiping about next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: Well, if you read the news today, oh, boy, and I promise you that's the last one -- reports surfaced this week that former Beatle George Harrison was close to death from a brain tumor. Less than 24 hours later, Harrison said that he was just fine. Martin, you did sort of an investigative look into this whole thing. How did this story get started?

LEWIS: I have written a story which will be on "TIME" magazine's Web site TIME.com on Monday and it's quite horrifying. And it's a fascinating glimpse into the way the which the British tabloids work. The British tabloids are worse than the Americans. It's like the difference between the "Sopranos" and the tele-tubbies. These people are vicious.

Sir George Martin, the Beatles producer, gave an interview last week, just an interview talking about his music and his life and career, and somebody asked him a question about George Harrison and he just said that George Harrison said -- a philosophical statement about, you know, when his time comes, he'll be ready to meet it. Nothing more than that, just a kind of Indian philosophy that George Harrison has espoused.

A wicked media editor, a tabloid writer and editor of a British newspaper, simply turned that around. They twisted the words. The put it around, and you know that old line that a lie can be halfway around the world before truth has got its boots on?

This lie was around the world three or four times before they were able to refute it. was absolutely disgusting and that's so typical of the British tabloids and indeed tabloids all over the world.

BATTISTA: Then of course most of the American media did pick it all up. So what does that say about us?

GALLAGHER: It sells, Bobbie. I mean people love it. We talked all day today on my radio show and we talked this week about not only Harrison, but a fellow Beatle, Paul McCartney, marrying this blond bimbo girlfriend of his half his age.

LEWIS: Hey. hey, hey, hey, hey hold on a moment, Mike...

GALLAGHER: That's -- I mean, that's -- people like that, people get into that.

BATTISTA: Save that, Mike. Save that, Mike! We will get to that later.

GALLAGHER: It's true. People like gossip and people like scandal, and whether you are in London or whether you are in Atlanta, people eat it up.

WILLIAMS: I think that there's something else that is at play here, though. I think that we are in such a rush in the media to get it first that sometimes we don't really care if it's the whole truth, and just as long as we have part of it, we just want to beat our competitor to the printing press and to broadcasting this on the air.

And I think that it's really sad because many people tune in and listen to us. They want to feel that they can trust us and that what we say has credibility. And I think the attitude that many of us should have, is that until we are absolutely certain that a story like this his legs and there is merit to it, then and only then should we run with it. It doesn't matter if anyone else is running it.

It's sort of like what Dan Rather was saying about the Chandra Levy and Gary Condit. They wanted to be absolutely certain. It wasn't until the FBI came on part of the story that CBS decided to run with it. Now of course I don't always agree with what CBS does, but I think in that instance that's the kind of example that we start listening to because if not, we are going to continue to lose the trust of the people.

GALLAGHER: That was a decision by Dan Rather, not CBS. CBS was reporting and has been reporting on this huge story. Dan Rather has an agenda. And Dan Rather didn't mind...

CLINTON: Has a new haircut too. I think that he looks fabulous.

GALLAGHER: Looks a little scary.

(CROSSTALK)

LEWIS: Armstrong was 100 percent correct. And you will very rarely hear me say that. Armstrong is right, and you know the worst thing about this is the way that media all over the world pick up a story merely because it's been in another newspaper. They don't check it themselves, they spread it on, and when the answer comes that it was wrong, they don't put it in the same front page or in the same lead in the news on TV. It's buried on page 42.

BATTISTA: We don't do that at CNN. I will tell you that.

LEWIS: CNN excepted of course.

BATTISTA: Yes, but you know, it's interesting, we did a show on this, I think that it was on Tuesday, with some tabloid folks and gossips and this sort of thing. They always maintain that there's a grain of truth in all of these stories and all they care about is a grain, but.

CLINTON: People don't even care. It's just like currency. Gossip is just something you use to talk to other people.

BATTISTA: But they feel vindicated because the person comes out with the fullest denial of the story and then three days later it turns out to be true.

CLINTON: I was just excited that we had made such progress in brain cell stuff, that he would be sick and then the next day he would be better. That was the exciting for me. I thought that stem cell stuff was going well.

BATTISTA: You couldn't live without gossip, Kate. Comediennes can't live without gossip. WILLIAMS: I actually think that the tabloids in this country are somewhat different. I never forget reading the "New York Times" magazine maybe a year or two, maybe two years ago and there was a story in there about "The National Enquirer" talking about how they usually get it right.

When you have "The New York Times" and other credible publications, like "The Washington Post" giving credibility to "The National Enquirer" -- and I must say, "The National Enquirer" did a very good job on the Monica Lewinsky story...

GALLAGHER: And the O.J. Simpson story -- O.J. Simpson.

WILLIAMS: And the O.J. Simpson story and the Jessie Jackson story. So let me just tell you, as much as we may dismiss the tabloids, but I have to tell you, in many cases they do better than mainstream media.

GALLAGHER: And they also come flying off of the supermarket shelves. People buy "The National Enquirer," they buy the "Globe" they buy the "Weekly Standard." I read it as part of what I do every week on the radio because I know mainstream America is reading it too. There is a grain of truth to a lot of it and again, people are thirsty for it. They love the scandal, we love the controversy.

BATTISTA: Let me go to mainstream America real quickly here and take Margaret in Wisconsin on the phone -- Margaret, go ahead.

MARGARET: Yes, I am just wondering why our American media was so quick to jump on the bandwagon with this, without doing any fact- finding. I mean, it just seems like they were so ready to jump on what they heard and sensationalize it for the rest of the U.S. I just do not understand that.

LEWIS: That's absolutely correct. I mean, I did a little research. The paper that put this story out in London were very clever. They put it out on a Sunday, where George Harrison's representative was not there, George Martin's representative was not available. And as a result, they gave it 24 hours out there. And the American media should have waited. But no one will, because as Armstrong said, they all want to be said.

CLINTON: Well, it's because you've got 24 hours to fill.

(BELL RINGING)

CLINTON: Pardon me for being...

BATTISTA: I'm sorry. That's upsetting to some of our guests.

All right, we're moving on, but we're not quite getting off The Beatles yet. Up next, will she love him when he's 64? Paul takes a wife.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL MCCARTNEY, MUSICIAN: Anyway, we're standing here for the cameras and we're very happy and we'll get married some time next year. That's about it.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCARTNEY: It's a sapphire, from India. It's an Indian sapphire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BATTISTA: Paul McCartney, you know, the cute one, is getting ready to tie the knot again. He and model Heather Mills have announced their engagement. He's 59, she's 33. Do you think that's a problem or should we just "let it be"?

Mike, it sounded like you had a problem with that.

GALLAGHER: Well, I'm a big Beatles' fan and love Paul McCartney's music, but now he joins the dirty old man's club. I mean...

BATTISTA: Oh...

GALLAGHER: ... you know, here's a guy who's -- there's nothing cute about a 59-year-old man marrying a 33-year-old trophy bimbo.

CLINTON: Stop it.

GALLAGHER: But guys do it -- guys do it all the time. I mean, it's so sad. He was married to Linda McCartney for 30 years. That's a lifetime, yet and months after her horrible death, he's meeting this Heather model, and then a few months after that, they're dating. I mean, there's no dignity to this. It's really creepy.

I believe marriage -- I believe in the sanctity of marriage with all my heart. And I believe that marriage is forever, and I just think it's sleazy.

CLINTON: I've got a little tear in my eye now.

LEWIS: OK, let's give this a reality check.

GALLAGHER: That's how I feel.

LEWIS: Let's give a little reality check to Mike.

GALLAGHER: Here we go.

LEWIS: OK, first of all -- first of all, Paul McCartney didn't meet Heather Mills until a year after his wife's death and didn't date until a time after that. He's entitled to get on with his life. He pays constant tribute to Linda McCartney, who was a magnificent woman. He's getting...

GALLAGHER: Not anymore.

LEWIS: ... on with his life. And Heather, excuse me, is not a bimbo. She is a model who lost half her leg in an accident, then decided to make her -- dedicate her life not to making money but to the cause of removing land mines. She is a selfless person, Mike.

I know that you're threatened by independent, intelligent women...

GALLAGHER: Yeah, that's right. I'm married to one.

LEWIS: ... but Paul McCartney clearly isn't.

GALLAGHER: I'm married to...

(APPLAUSE)

GALLAGHER: I'm married...

WILLIAMS: If I -- if I could add...

(CROSSTALK)

GALLAGHER: ... a liberal woman, and my wife even says, come on, how sleazy is this. And I'm married, by the way, you'll be happy to know, Martin, to a liberal.

(CROSSTALK)

GALLAGHER: ... a break. It's dirty, it's sleazy and wrong.

BATTISTA: I think I would be more concerned about the -- oh, you know what, I've got to interrupt us just a moment here, because evidently D.C. Police Chief Charles Ramsey is making an appearance, possibly making a statement. So we'll go to those cameras and those microphones and see what he has to say.

(INTERRUPTED FOR BREAKING NEWS)

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