THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARY ROBINSON, U.N. HIGH COMMISSION FOR HUMAN RIGHTS: We must come to terms with the past in order to move forward.
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MAYOR RUDOLPH GIULIANI, NEW YORK: Mr. Ambassador, here's our traditional hat.
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD ROTH, HOST: Race, lies and videotape. Welcome to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. This is Richard Roth in New York.
A World Conference on Racism without any controversy? You got to be kidding. It's still weeks away, but the third-ever Global Racism Conference sure has garnered a lot of publicity, if nothing else. One item everybody seems to be talking about language in a draft document which equates Zionism with racism. That's just one issue which the United States and other countries disagree with -- so much so, they threaten not to attend. U.N. officials are scrambling to keep the focus on the big picture.
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ROBINSON: As delegates are well aware, the United Nations has dealt with this issue at great length. The resolution stating that Zionism is a form of racism was repealed a decade ago. I believe that it's inappropriate to reopen this issue in any form here, and that anyone who seeks to do so is putting the success of the Durbin conference at risk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Racism conference delegates are negotiating now in Geneva line by line. Besides the Zionism issue, there is also the question of slave reparations, compensation for past trading of slaves. Again, the U.S. and other nations object to inclusion of this in the conference. The U.N. Secretary-General, who will attend the conference, wants language on these contentious topics cleaned up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: We need a document, a declaration that is forward-looking, a declaration that ensures that in future we have the mechanisms to fight against racism. Yes, we should acknowledge the past. We should acknowledge the tragedies and wounds and evils of the past, but we should not be captive of them and then move forward.
And I think every country has to be at the negotiating table to help clean up the language.
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ROTH: The United States says it would like to attend, but not unless changes are made.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: It's an important conference. It should be a forward-looking conference, but we should not allow the conference to be side tracked to deal with the contemporary political issue that is of concern to some members of the conference and really isn't directly related to the purpose of the conference.
And therefore, we are hoping to find language that will deal with the problem of slavery and deal with the other problem with respect to Israel, because we do want to go to the conference. We're not threatening to boycott. The answer is let's fix this so that the conference will serve its intended purpose. The United States wants to be there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Well, what is the purpose and what are they squabbling over?
We welcome in New York, David Harris, executive director of the American Jewish Committee. His group has a delegation in Geneva and will also have one at the conference. From Chicago, Rashid Khalidi, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center of International Studies at the University of Chicago. And with us from our U.N. office, Ethiopia's ambassador to the United Nations, Abdul Mejid Hussein. He has held an array of government positions and posts in the United Nations system in his varied career. Welcome to all of you.
Mr. Harris, let me start with you. What is your problem with this racism conference document?
DAVID HARRIS, AMERICAN JEWISH COMMITTEE: The conference was intended to address the issue of racism, racial discrimination. It's a problem that affects every society in this world, every society. To allow a country specific issue to emerge in Durbin is to threaten to destroy the conference. You heard it from Secretary Powell and we've heard it from the Europeans this week in Geneva. This should not become a country specific issue. If it does, the conference will unravel, the issue will not be limited to the Middle East.
ROTH: But won't it be so vague then? Don't you have to name some countries? I mean...
HARRIS: The intent of the U.N. conference was not to be country specific at all. If it is, I can give you a list of 30, 40, 50, 60 countries where racism is endemic. This is not a specifically Middle East issue. And in any case, in my view, the Middle East conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is a political conflict that needs to be addressed by the diplomats and politicians.
ROTH: All right, professor Khalidi in Chicago, your view on this?
RASHID KHALIDI, UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO: Well, I think some of the objections that have been raised in the draft document may be justified, but I think describing a 35-year-old occupation which has instituted systematic racist policies against 3 million people is not outside the scope of a conference on racism.
I think some of the things that have been suggested in the draft document are beyond the scope of what the conference should touch on. I agree. Talking about Zionism as racism is certainly beyond the scope of the conference, but I think talking about a regime that's been in place, it will be the longest occupation in modern history in a few months. A regime that's been in place for 35 years and institutes two classes of citizenship, one for Israeli settlers and one for Palestinians is racist, is not beyond the scope of what this conference should deal with.
ROTH: David?
HARRIS: If we want to begin talking about racism, would one want to be a Christian and Pakistan? Would one to be a woman in Afghanistan today? Would one want to be a Bahai in Iran or a Christian in Saudi Arabia or a black Christian in Sudan? There's a long list of issues that could easily fall within the scope of the issue of racism.
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is a political conflict that needs to be resolved by politicians and diplomats.
ROTH: All right, let me get the -- speaking of diplomats, Ethiopia's ambassador. Thank you very much for joining us. Take a look at the big picture here. Is this healthy to have discussions on Zionism as racism inside the conference? And plus, looking back at reparations for past activities regarding slavery?
ABDUL MEJID HUSSEIN, ETHIOPIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: Well, thank you, Richard. It is, of course, possible to discuss any issue anywhere. However, I think we should keep the full picture. And as both Mary Robinson and also Kofi Annan mentioned, we have to look forward and also coming from Africa and this conference being held in Africa, and where the worst form of racism, colonization and what it's entailed was visited upon that continent, where that conference is being held, we would like to have a consensus. We would like to have a successful conference.
And therefore, it will totally disappoint the peoples of Africa if we get down to only aspect in a problem that perhaps we can say we visited before.
ROTH: We attended a conference, a lunch, ambassador. You and I were there and various officials said if the U.S. people hear that Zionism is racism as part of this and accorded other language, that it'll be disastrous for the U.N. inside the U.S. Public opinion.
HUSSEIN: Well, I -- first of all as one of my colleagues that you remember conference -- at that roundtable also said, we don't also want to be held hostage to that kind of language being put across the table and therefore saying to us, "if you do this, then the U.S. may cut down on this and that from the U.N. or pull out."
I think the United States and its people are great enough to look at all issues. And I would say like you were not happy. I mean, the U.S. was not happy with that draft also in the small arms and life weapons. In the end, the U.S. sent a high level delegation, a big delegation. They discussed it. In fact...
ROTH: Yes, we don't know what's going to happen this time so far. But professor Khalidi, do you tell from this language that things are just going be watered down in the plight of the people that you are most interested in, the Palestinians just will not get heard or will get submerged under more U.N. verbiage in a document?
KHALIDI: Well, I would agree with the Ethiopian ambassador. I would like to see issues like slavery and the question of reparations, issues like a systematic regime of discrimination against 3 million Palestinians, I would like to see them discussed. I see no reason why United States should threaten to pull its marbles off the table if something it doesn't like is discussed.
There are, I think, legitimate limits. I agree with Mary Robinson. The issue of Zionism and racism was deliberated upon at great length by the U.N. and resolved. And I think that that has actually been eliminated from the document. But I do believe that the United States has an obligation to come and debate with other countries of the world, especially these issues like reparations for slavery and issues like the question of the discrimination against the Palestinians.
There are things that exercise everybody else in the world. People really feel very deeply about them.
ROTH: Any of the three of you, does the conference on racism really do anything to stop racism? How do you legislate against this?
HUSSEIN: It's not...
ROTH: Ambassador, briefly, go ahead, yes?
HUSSEIN: Not -- you could legislate. I mean, you could put it on your legal documents, but the main thing is to really discuss this, bring it out into the open. It's not only for governments. You have civic organizations. You have political organizations. Individual citizens of every country. You have to be involved. And it will be ironic that you have in the United States history the first African American Secretary of State. And this will be a very appropriate...
ROTH: All right, David Harris?
HUSSEIN: ...level at which he will -- you know he should take part in. And the U.S. should not really be absent from this.
ROTH: David?
HARRIS: Richard, a conference to succeed, needs to address best practices. As I said earlier, racism afflicts every society in the world. And as the populations grow, when we've become a more interconnected world, it's only going to be more of a challenge. You can see it in every corner of the world.
For this opportunity to be squandered by seeking to politicize a conference. By the way, that not only seeks to deal with Zionism as racism. And may I point out that Zionism is nothing more or less than the movement of self-determination of the Jewish people. It's also seeking to denigrate the meaning of the Holocaust. And it's also seeking to diminish the cancerous impact of anti-Semitism over 2,000 years.
So people are playing with this conference at the edges. And I'm afraid that we're going to lose the impact of a conference that must be held if we're going to find a way of dealing with racism.
ROTH: Final potential word from professor Khalidi. Are you worried about a backlash here against the Arab world?
KHALIDI: I think the kind of inflammatory rhetoric that's been used against this conflict, against this conference is regrettable because this is a serious attempt to address things like anti-Semitism, the horrors of the Holocaust, but also to talk about things which we don't have as much education about, for example, in our society. And I would hope that the conference will be a means for us to have more education about it.
HARRIS: I'm sorry, I just came from one year in Geneva where I followed this conference day in and day out. The Arab nations joined by some Muslim states are seeking to denigrate the centrality of the Holocaust to Jewish history and dilute the meaning of anti-Semitism. So I'm afraid it's not quite as sanguine as it's been presented.
ROTH: We'll going to be following this.
HUSSEIN: May I just say something?
ROTH: Unfortunately, ambassador, we're getting pushed out for time reasons. We've got other news coming up. More on the Middle East. We will continue our dialogue privately in the hallways. Ambassador Abdul Hussein of Ethiopia at the United Nations office. He doesn't get cut off inside the General Assembly as I'm doing, but thank you for coming in.
From Chicago, professor Khalidi, the University of Chicago, where he is the leader there of international studies. He was an advisor to the Palestinian delegation during some of the hopeful talks in the early '90s. And David Harris, executive director, American Jewish Committee. He's back from a year in Switzerland there. Thank you all.
The racism conference is just one global event or treaty which the United States has hedged on participation for biological weapons to Kyoto climate change pact, the Bush administration has said it's choosing a la carte global diplomacy style, something that rankles the previous administration's Democratic Secretary of State.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: It's an unfortunate trend because I've always believed that the United States is much strengthened when it is part of international regimes. We obviously have to be a part of the negotiation. Not all -- every treaty is exactly the way we want it, but the bottom line is, you can't affect it if you're outside it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROTH: Now a major update on a story we've been following here. First, the latest background. In Washington, relatives of four Israelis believed kidnapped by the Hezbollah organization received verbal support from a U.S. Senator who knows all about captivity. Senator John McCain, former Vietnam POW, demanded that the families be told the whereabouts of their relatives believed kidnapped in southern Lebanon.
Three of the men were soldiers. A fourth, a reservist and a businessman captured a week later. That man's son made this appeal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ORI TANNENBAUM, SON OF ABDUCTED BUSINESSMAN: I appeal to everyone who respects and cherishes human rights principles to leave no stone unturned. So at least we will get some kind of a signal from my father and the three soldiers, a letter, a photo, a videocassette.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: Well, speaking of video cassette, the family's got some disturbing news Friday when the results of an internal United Nations investigation regarding one aspect of the abductions released in New York. The U.N. Secretary-General had commissioned a probe into why videotape and other details surrounding the soldier's kidnapping, which included fake U.N. markings and gear, were not passed on by U.N. people in the field to upper U.N. management.
As we reported in prior programs, the U.N. revealed a month ago that a videotape shot by an Indian U.N. peacekeeper the day after the abductions did exist, despite months of denials to Israeli authorities by senior U.N. officials, even the Secretary-General. The tape was shot at this scene in southern Lebanon.
A local freelance cameraman did show two of the vehicles used in the plot being carted off, this after a confrontation between Hezbollah and U.N. peacekeepers. The U.N. was forced to turn over the cars.
Joining us now is Joseph Connor, the leader of the fact finding team into the events of October 7, 2000. Mr. Connor is the U.N.'s money manager normally. And he finds himself in far choppier waters here.
Mr. Connor, welcome back to the program. First, on the fate of the soldiers. A month ago, the U.N. peacekeeping director said his assessment was that there were only traces of blood found at the scene. Specifically, what does your report uncover about that?
JOSEPH CONNOR, U.N. UNDERSECRETARY GENERAL FOR MANAGEMENT: First of all, let me say the U.N. unequivocally knows not what the condition of the soldiers is today. There has been a tape that was prepared routinely the day following and showed two disabled cars and the issue arose of the connection.
But there has not been, to our knowledge, any U.N. tape as of the day in which the kidnapping took place.
ROTH: All right so the tape -- but your report said based on the amount of blood found, the soldiers or the occupants may have "been badly injured and may succumb to their injuries." What does your report say about the performance of the United Nations system?
CONNOR: Basically, there are three issues that I think measure our performance. There was no cover up of the kidnapping. Secondly, we did not change the books and records or any other material relating to the activities of 7 October and 8 October. And now to directly answer your question, we did find fault with our own performance. We did not balance evenly operational needs to assess the blood with humanitarian needs to disclose what we found.
Secretary General will mount corrective action in that regard. That does not mean, and it is not to be considered to mean, that the U.N. knows where the soldiers are today or what their condition is.
ROTH: And it appears there were other videotapes, not just this one videotape, you learned?
CONNOR: The second videotape appeared as part of this investigation. When we went out to the field, it was produced. What that shows again does not relate to the fate of the soldiers. It shows a terrific bombardment going on during the incidents that are being described.
ROTH: Secretary General has vowed to look at the system and take corrective actions, but this may not have been part of your mandate, but this all sounds pretty familiar after the Rwanda case where cables were sent to U.N. headquarters warning of trouble brewing before the genocide. And somehow the word didn't get out. Is there any correlation, similarity here inside the bureaucratic system of the U.N.?
CONNOR: Richard, my job was to ascertain the facts. And of course, that's exactly what we did in a 15 or so page report that will be, I'm sure, fine-toothed comb.
However, information was not maliciously withheld. It was blocked by a well-meaning, intermediate-level executive. And so it did not rise to the level it needed to rise to so that senior people who could know how to deal with it.
ROTH: Can you tell us where the problem stopped, where the most senior official was who didn't pass this?
CONNOR: Yes, we had very senior officials. Roed-Larsen...
ROTH: But they knew...
CONNOR: David Stores.
ROTH: But they didn't know about it?
CONNOR: They did not know about it, nor did the Undersecretary General for peacekeeping know about it and accordingly misrepresent it, the situation, when asked by high Israeli forces.
ROTH: But you can understand the Israelis frustration. They kept asking for it for months and now the U.N. is still saying Kofi Annan's offer is, you can look at the tape, but you can't see the faces of people who are on the tape. The faces, according to the Israelis and some, could be the very people who kidnapped the soldiers using U.N. fake gear.
CONNOR: I think that the issue of showing the tape is a very good one. Secretary-General has offered to show the tape, not only the first, but the second tape to both countries involved, Lebanon and Israel. He has also stepped forth and decided that they can be shown also a number of items that we took back from the area where the vehicles were disabled, which have blood accumulations on it. We believe that should be of significant assistance to the Israeli government.
ROTH: Joseph Connor, Undersecretary General for Management, led the fact-finding investigation into what exactly happened on a south Lebanon border between the United Nations peacekeepers and Hezbollah and missing Israeli soldiers. Thank you very much, Mr. Connor.
CONNOR: My pleasure.
ROTH: The Israeli ambassador to the U.N. issued this response to the report.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fact that at such a high level, there was a lack of communication, that there was poor judgment and assessment is really a matter of concern.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROTH: For one day, he was the mayor of Mongolia. New York City's chief executive, Rudolph Giuliani, was presented with what's called a Dell, the traditional Mongolian robe, in a ceremony at New York's City hall. The mayor was also offered an invitation by Mongolia's U.N. ambassador.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to extend an invitation to the major to visit my country, Mongolia, and get personally acquainted with the nomadic lifestyle.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The mayor knows very well what it's like to live the life of a nomad. So perhaps Ulan Bator is not so far away. The mayor is in the middle of a bitter divorce and doesn't live at Gracie Mansion, the mayoral home, anymore.
A new home could be this Mongolian ger, a portable year round tent- like home, environmentally friendly. Half of all Mongolians live in gers. The ger is part of a Mongolian festival that visited New York. The ambassador said many surprises take place in the ger.
Speaking of surprises, the nations of the world are going "grr" as the same mayor of New York had vowed to take their cars from them if they didn't pay some of their $20 million in parking tickets. Not all diplomats though, ambassadors and others were exempt, but some consul staff were going to feel the wrath of Rudicon of lower Mongolia. The tough talk, though, seemed to have accomplished something for now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): A frustrated mayor of New York City threatened to have vehicles belonging to diplomats with unpaid parking tickets removed from the congested streets. But as the deadline for the tow trucks to roll neared, the city and the state department reached an agreement, which removed the towing threat.
GIULIANI: Since the city announced a new policy, I must say it did a lot to help trigger these final agreements and negotiations.
ROTH: For any local political leader, cracking down on diplomats and freeing up parking space is a bonanza.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they choose to live in this country, they should follow by everybody else's rules.
ROTH: Hours after the parking deal, the driver of a car with diplomatic plates rushed out to move his illegally parked car after spotting our camera. The city now says the State Department will deny car registration to the owner of a vehicle which accumulates more than $230 in summons. The U.S. government will also help the city collect the outstanding debt.
New York City says Nigeria is number two on the list, owing more than $1 million.
ARTHUR MBANEFO, NIGERIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: If they carry out that threat of auctioning any embassy cars, I think they'll have a hell of problem in their hands around the world. They're just creating problems for the Bush administration.
ROTH: Diplomatic immunity doesn't guarantee a parking spot. A ride last week with the Bosnian charge d'affaires showed the problem of finding a space outside a reception. In the end, the driver was forced to head back to his mission, only to return later for the pick-up.
MICHAEL BAUME, FORMER AUSTRALIAN CONSUL: One of the problems we have is this sort of thing, confusing signs that don't necessarily confuse our drivers, but they sure as hell confuse the officers who are issuing tickets.
ROTH: For the mayor, the hate/love relationship with the U.N. will continue until the end of his rule this year.
GIULIANI: Well, the United Nations has always been welcome to remain in New York City. The only think I'd ever thought about doing with the United Nations is substituting, you know, a ballpark for it. But I'm not able to do that, so the United Nations is very welcome in New York City.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: Well one vehicle that will not be towed belongs to the Secretary-General. That's because Kofi Annan leaves this weekend for a month-long journey, combining vacation and work. Norway to Rwanda on the suitcase list.
But we're not going anywhere. DIPLOMATIC LICENSE will be right here next week. I'm Richard Roth in New York. Thanks for watching.
END
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