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CNN Live Today

America Under Attack: Many Rethink Civil Liberties

Aired September 13, 2001 - 13:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: These are just more examples, of course, of how our lives are going to be changed by what's happened in New York and Washington and another one here now as well.

Our national security correspondent David Ensor joins us with talk of legislation that would change the rule of play for the CIA -- David.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well that's right, Aaron. A senior congressional Republican tells me that the 1995 rules requiring that potential informants for the Central Intelligence Agency be vetted for their criminal or human rights records before they're taken on board will likely be abolished. Whether it's by the director of Central Intelligence or by legislation, which Congress is now planning to consider next week, is not yet clear. In that legislation, Congress is also looking at adding billions of dollars to the nation's counterterrorism effort, and they're talking with the administration now about the numbers and exactly what that money would be used for.

There's also a discussion on Capitol Hill of creating a position, sort of a counterterrorism czar who would report directly to the president much as the drug czar does now.

The 1995 rules were imposed after a CIA paid informant was found to be responsible for the deaths of an American and also of a Guatemalan married to an American named Jennifer Harbury. She led the cause saying that the U.S. should not be paying people money for information who are murdering people overseas. But a U.S. Intelligence official has said that while anything aimed at bolstering the human intelligence gathering efforts of the United States is a good thing, in fact these rules have never restricted the agency from hiring the people it wants to hire, from getting the informants it wants to get.

Last year, CIA spokesman William Harlow said to me that -- quote -- "We have never, never turned down an opportunity to deal with someone, even someone, with an unsavory background if we thought that person could be helpful in our effort to combat terrorism." However, today we have word from someone that I know President Bush takes very seriously, takes advice from on these matters, former President George Bush Sr., himself a former CIA director.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE H. W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we are going to provide the president with the best possible intelligence, we have to have the -- we have to free up the intelligence system from some of its constraints. You've got to always respect the privacy and right of an American citizen. But I think -- I think they ought to take a hard look now at whether we've gone to far in denying the people that run the intelligence community access to human intelligence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ENSOR: So again, Aaron, the 1995 rules set up by the director of CIA under which people who might be hired as informants in terrorists groups have to be checked out first for their criminal or human rights record, those rules may be soon about to go. Just part of the fallout of the terrible incident on the 11th -- Aaron.

BROWN: David, I suspect any police officer anywhere in America will tell you that people who become informants often are unsavory characters, to use your words, in the same way that any prisoner will tell you you don't need a knife to make a knife. There are lots of ways to make a knife. And when we talk about these changes in air traffic safety and the like, it's a very fishy business. Is there any talk in Washington about changing the most basic rule of play to the CIA and that is whether it can operate domestically in dealing with Americans here in this country?

ENSOR: Absolutely no discussion of that sort, no. I think that the CIA prefers to stay overseas. The FBI is happy handling the matters domestically. There are, however, some other questions that at least some on Capitol Hill are beginning to discuss. It may never reach the level of legislation but questions about whether this country should have what most countries do have, a national ID system. It's something that most Americans would not like to see and yet it is being raised as an issue at least. It would make it a lot easier to keep track of people who shouldn't be here or might have criminal records or ties to terrorist groups.

Another issue that may be raised...

BROWN: That's enough. David -- Dave, that's a really...

ENSOR: Yes.

BROWN: ... interesting one because I know you and I have talked about this years ago, there was a fierce discussion when then President Clinton proposed as part of his medical plan -- health care plan that everyone in the country just get a national medical card. And people were very unhappy about that. The idea of a national ID card system, even in this moment, I suspect will strike some people as, you'll excuse the expression here, but un-American.

ENSOR: That's right. I don't think it's going to fly, but people in the anti-terrorism business are simply raising the issue and pointing out that we can have our liberties or where we can pay a -- and we have to pay a price for them if we do. If you have that kind of a system, you might save some lives -- Aaron.

BROWN: David, thanks. CNN's David Ensor working the legislative national security side of this story.

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