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American Morning

America's New War: Look at What American Forces Face Should They Go in Afghanistan

Aired September 21, 2001 - 09:41   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Also developments in the investigation, the criminal investigation of last week's terrorist attacks.

Our national correspondent Eileen O'Connor joins us here now in Washington with the latest -- Eileen.

EILEEN O'CONNOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, FBI, ATF and other federal agents continue to search databases, run background checks and roundup people they would like to talk to. Over 100 are currently in custody on possible visa violations, and there are nearly 200 more on a watchlist. They've been going through apartment buildings, motels, other things. They've actually Been over many of these things with a fine-toothed comb, and in fact using forensic scientist to try to make sure they match up names and faces. All of this to prove the link between the suspected hijackers and Osama bin Laden, who the president says is behind these attacks.

The Attorney General and FBI director, touring the crash site in Pennsylvania yesterday, said that Americans need to be vigilant still against the possibility of further attack. The FBI director also spoke of law enforcement's frustration with the difficulty in matching up those names and faces. Many of the suspected hijackers and associated that are wanted may have stolen identities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: We have several hijackers who's identities were those of the names on the manifest. We have several others that are still in question. So it's the investigation is ongoing, and I am not certain as to several of the others.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'CONNOR: That of course just delays things, and it's literally a page out of Al Qaeda manual for escaping detention. There are several people in custody on, as I said, visa violations, though more seriously, being held as material witnesses. One of them being seen as very important, an Algerian picked up by authorities before the attack who's been taking flight training. He's now been transferred to New York for questioning. Very important, for intelligence agencies say, they can prove through him, they believe, links back to bin laden -- Paula -- John.

KING: John King actually on the roof up here. That's OK.

One of the big debates, the Taliban demanding it see the evidence of this investigation before it turns over Osama bin Laden. The White House saying no. What about here at home. Any evidence yet that the administration is beginning to show this evidence to a grand jury, perhaps beginning to seek indictments.

O'CONNOR: Well, John, as you know, all these material arrest warrants, the material witness arrest warrants are under seal. And this has been transferred into an investigation under the U.S. attorney in New York, the southern district of New York, Mary Jo White, and she said it's going to be empaneling that grand jury, and that means that everything, those proceedings are secret, so we do not know yet whether they are currently seeking indictment. That's being held very closely.

But certainly there is this, you know, really need to prove those links, because also as he gathers the military forces, he needs to gather in those allies, and that helps. This will be critical around the world, not just to the Taliban, but to allies, too.

So politically, they can prove to their people that the president of the United States and if they're alive with him, they're seeking justice, not vengeance -- John.

KING: CNN's Eileen O'Connor, thank you very much. Very difficult work, keeping track of this very complicated situation.

Now back to Paula Zahn in New York.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, John.

And I've going to move you now to Afghanistan, a rocky, mountainous nation controlled primarily by the Taliban. Their opposition, the northern alliance. We're going to go now to Miles O'Brien at the CNN Center in Atlanta, who can explain all of this with the help of a map.

We need that map, Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I'll give it a try. We're all learning an awful lot about this region. It's a very inaccessible region. You couldn't think of a perhaps more inaccessible region for the U.S. military to attempt any sort of military action, large or small.

Let's put this map in motion, and I will give you sense of lay of the land, once again.

That's the road network. The vast majority of those roads, as we have them, disappear are unpaved and very difficult to get through. These orange areas you see right here are areas controlled by the group which has an umbrella title of "Northern Alliance." The remainder controlled by the Taliban. Now the Northern Alliance has a troop force of about 15,000. There are about 50,000 troops in the Taliban. Let's bring in a guest who has spent an awful lot of time in this region, knows an awful lot about it, and can give us a sense of the type of weaponry and tactics that might be used in this region, Eric Margolis. He's a journalist who's written a book "War on Top of the World."

ERIC MARGOLIS, JOURNALIST: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's get the lay of the land, if you will. The history on this, if you read any of it, is there have been awful lot of well-equipped big military forces that have tried to come in through here, whether it's the Soviets, the British, and have been thwarted by these fighters. Explain how they do it.

MARGOLIS: Add to that Alexander the Greats Macedonians, too.

Afghanistan is, first of all, very remote. Secondly, very mountainous. The Hindu Kush cuts right across it. It's wild, there's no roads, there's dust storms. It's a very heavily-armed population. At puberty, every Afghan boy gets a gun. The Afghans have covered 14 wars, and I think the Afghans, along with the Chechens, are the bravest fighters that I've ever seen. They're disorganized. They are medieval in their combat capability, but nevertheless, they're very brave.

And the one thing you never do with an Afghan is you threaten him, because if you do, he will dig in his heels and he will fight.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's take a look for just a moment and try to sort of stack up the weaponry and on both sides, Taliban versus Northern Alliance. Let's go to graphic for just a moment, if we can, and we'll show you a little bit about what we know. Well, we do know this, the Taliban weaponry, most of it appears to be leftovers from the Cold War occupation by the Soviets, Kalashnikov assault rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, recoilless rifles, and machine guns. Now, moving over to the northern alliance, very similar group of weapons, fewer of them.

Armored vehicles: They have 650 vehicles in total on the Taliban side, T-62, 54 and, T-55 tanks, troop carriers and the like. Moving over to the Northern Alliance, there's 60 to 70 total vehicles with similar battle tanks.

As you move along to artillery, there are 76-millimeter mountain guns, 122 millimeter, 155 millimeter towed guns on the Taliban side. Similar kind of weaponry on the Northern Alliance side, obviously fewer in numbers.

And as we get to the air defense, we talk about antiaircraft guns, automatic cannons, leftover stinger surface-to-air missiles. Once again, the Northern Alliance may have some of those, as well as the Taliban, leftovers from that Soviet occupation.

And finally, the air force, their actually are a few Sequioa (ph) fighter-bombers in the Taliban side of things. On the Northern Alliance all of eight transport helicopters. Factor all of that in for us, Eric, it seems like a lightly armed group of individuals. Nevertheless, they use those to very effective end, don't they?

MARGOLIS: Any invader can break into Afghanistan. That's not the problem. The problem is getting back out again. These are tribal militias; they're not armies. The United States -- against Iraq, the United States fought against a World War I capability force. Now it's fighting against a medieval force. It reminds me of the British when they fought the Durbish as a cartoon. There's no military problem.

The greatest danger for the Americans in going in, is that there are 80 million mines that the Russians spread over Afghanistan in the 1980 that are still there. They'll be very little heavy weapons resistance. Most of the stuff is inoperable. Once the American forces are implanted there, the Afghans will fight. And the U.S. forces, if they go in, will find themselves surrounded by an extremely hostile population, not just in Afghanistan, but if they base themselves from neighboring Pakistan. It's a very dangerous situation.

And the Afghans, I want to repeat again, the Afghans will not be cowed. Look, the Afghans have stood up to greatest power in the world yesterday and today, and they're only doing on point of honor, because they will not give up a guest.

O'BRIEN: Eric Margolis is author of "War on Top of the World." I wish I had a little more time to talk to you today, but we'll bring you back in again. We'll appreciate your insights. And he joined us from Toronto.

All right, we'll keep you informed and give you a sense of this shifts and the tides and who's got what as we continue our coverage of "America's New War." -- Paula.

ZAHN: That's helpful to all of us. Thanks, Miles.

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