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CNN Talkback Live

America Speaks Out: First U.S. Forces Move Into Afghanistan

Aired September 28, 2001 - 15:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BOBBIE BATTISTA, HOST: Good afternoon everyone, and welcome to "TALKBACK LIVE: America Speaks Out." We have lots to cover today, including the first sense that U.S. forces could be moving in Afghanistan.

But first, Jesse Jackson just held a news conference saying that he is leaning against going to Afghanistan. Here to talk about all of this today, Nancy Skinner, a WLS radio talkshow host, and co-host of the syndicated Doug Stehan's "Good Day" program.

Also with us, Bob Dornan, a former Republican representative from California, and we might add, a former fighter pilot. He is currently a nationally syndicated talkshow host as well.

Bob, good to see you. Nancy, nice to see you.

BOB DORNAN, SYNDICATED TALKSHOW HOST: Good to see you.

NANCY SKINNER, TALKSHOW HOST, WLS RADIO: Hi, Bobbie.

BATTISTA: Talk about the Reverend Jackson thing, now that he's made his decision not to go at this particular time. How are your listeners running on that one, Nancy? Nancy, can you hear me? No, she can't.

Bob, can you hear me?

DORNAN: Yes.

BATTISTA: OK. How are your listeners running on that?

DORNAN: For three hours today, 100 percent don't go. Some suggested -- well, if he's going to go, why doesn't he take Jimmy Swaggart with him. That's what they really want to see in Afghanistan, a person who disgraced himself last year with adultery, child out of wedlock, and we're going to send a Christian minister who fell for grace, we hope temporarily? It's so sad.

BATTISTA: In all fairness, and I'm not sure that Nancy can hear us yet, we do have to give him some credit for having accomplished the release of other prisoners, whether they're fighter...

DORNAN: Oh, yes. I worked...

BATTISTA: We've got to give him credit for doing that. I'm not saying this is the right time.

DORNAN: ... I worked with him on one. I was at a little airport in Illinois to welcome back the late Father Martin Jenko. He was instrumental in that. I spent an hour and a half in Syria with Hafez al-Assad, a terrorist killer and president, father of the Kurd president of Syria. And Hafez Assad told me, within three weeks, you'll have good news. Father Jenko was released.

Jesse invited me up to his home for dinner in Chicago, and guess who was there? A terrorist. One of these Sandinistas from Nicaragua. Dinner at Jesse's with the presidente of Nicaragua, a Communist Sandinista. What an adventure.

BATTISTA: Is Nancy still -- she can't hear us.

Let me go to the audience quickly to get a read on them. I'm going to go first to Steve. What do you think?

STEVE: Yes, basically...

BATTISTA: You don't have to stand, we are informal here.

STEVE: OK. All right. Yes, I mean as far as the -- basically, Afghanistan, as far as, you know, Jesse Jackson going to negotiate; President Bush said that negotiations -- there were no negotiations to the demands that he made. So, I think with him undermining -- he actually undermining -- him going there would actually undermine what President Bush was trying to do.

BATTISTA: We've got a phone call from Georgia, is it Dianne (ph)? Dianna (ph)?

CALLER: Dianna.

BATTISTA: Go ahead.

CALLER: I agree with the last gentleman. It definitely is a concern that he is not an elected official, and does not represent what we stand for and everything. I just -- I still appreciate what he's done in the past, but right now we need to leave this to what the people in the know are doing. I feel that we don't have a safer outcome for our troops.

BATTISTA: You know what, Bob, obviously as a private citizen, Reverend Jackson can go where he wants, when he wants. But at the same time, wouldn't you guess that the Bush administration might have put some pressure on him? You know...

DORNAN: Well, did you see Colin Powell's eyes narrow yesterday, just ever so slightly? He's a good diplomat. His eyes narrowed, when he said: Not too good an idea.

Look, Jesse Jackson is one of the most articulate people in our country, and he just gave a beautiful cover position with great articulation that I'm not going, but here's the demands, here's this. He's still inserting himself. Let him rehabilitate himself with his wife, Jackie, with his constituents, with America on his own time. Don't use this tragedy with almost 7,000 people incinerated and pulverized to redeem yourself as a Christian minister. It will come over time, if you've changed your ways.

BATTISTA: Lamie (ph) in the audience, go ahead. Did I say that right?

LUKSHME: Lukshme (ph).

BATTISTA: Oh, Lukshme (ph), excuse me. Go ahead.

LUKSHME: I think if he does go there, then there may be some possibility of reduced bloodshed, as well as maybe chances of less innocent people being hurt or killed over there.

BATTISTA: And Pat on the phone from Vancouver. Pat?

VANCOUVER: My name is Pat, and I'm from Vancouver, Canada.

I don't think that Mr. Jackson should go to Afghanistan because he's -- they have said that they're sworn enemies of the United States.

BATTISTA: Thank you, Pat.

CALLER: There would be a possibility of an assassination attempt on him if he went.

BATTISTA: Let me go to the audience here -- Alina (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a potential outcome of him going there I see only terrible kind of big increase in regaining power for Afghanistan because he will just add very valuable hostage and U.S. will just end up negotiating for two aid workers and one reverend.

BATTISTA: All right, Nancy Skinner, I think we've got your audio problems fixed.

Are you back with us?

SKINNER: I am back. I am back.

BATTISTA: OK. We've been talking about Jesse Jackson's decision not to go. Most of our audience, as most of Bob's listeners were not big on that idea to begin with. How about yours?

SKINNER: Yes, I'm going to have to agree -- I'm agreeing with Bob Dornan. How crazy is that?

You know, I think that the situation is too volatile.

DORNAN: America united.

BATTISTA: Right. SKINNER: I think the situation was too volatile. Jesse Jackson has done a tremendous amount of good in other parts of the world and in other situations, Bobbie, but this one is too tricky. We really do have to be on the same page as a country, and they could use him to undercut President Bush or a number of scenarios could develop that I think would throw us off. So I'm glad he decided. He did the right thing.

BATTISTA: And I got to -- Go ahead, Bob. I'm sorry.

DORNAN: Bobbie, I was just going to say, we -- I learn from your network that the pope and the Vatican got assurances from the Bush administration that his trip to Tajikistan yesterday and Armenia would not be endangered by any type of military insertions into Afghanistan.

Now, once the pope is back safely in Italy, what do we have to worry about in addition to Dana Curry and Heather Mercer? We have to worry about where is Jesse Jackson because we don't want to kill an American citizen as we're in, quote, "hot pursuit" of Osama bin Laden.

Why would any American want to put himself in a combat zone when there's been a declare war. It's just so egotistical it's frightening.

BATTISTA: Ken...

SKINNER: Well, Bob, I don't think he did it because it was egotistical. He has done a tremendous amount of good in the past, and I think that...

DORNAN: Yes, he has.

SKINNER: ... he thinks -- he thinks he can go over there and do the same thing, but this is a different situation. You're right, we don't need him in the way we need to act as soon as we find Osama bin Laden, but I don't think he's done this out of ego, I really don't.

BATTISTA: All right. An e-mail...

DORNAN: You don't think he's trying to rehabilitate himself from the Karen Stanford-child-out-of-wedlock mess?

SKINNER: No.

DORNAN: That's only recent news.

SKINNER: No. That's a cynical -- that's a very cynical view of the situation. He has brought people home in hostages situations in many different countries throughout many different, you know, different escalations.

DORNAN: But that's the past, Nancy. I worked with him on one of those with Father Jenco in the Baca Valley in Syria. But you know what it's like, some people should fade from the news until they rehabilitate themselves. What in heaven's name is Gary Condit, when he was mercifully out of the news, being put back on the new intelligence committee terrorism homeland defense subcommittee. That is so obnoxious. I can't believe it's a real story.

SKINNER: You just can't let Gary Condit go, can you, Bob?

(CROSSTALK)

DORNAN: Nancy, wait a minute. Nancy, I did let him go. Dick Gephardt can't let him go.

SKINNER: Leave Gary Condit alone, Bob.

(CROSSTALK)

DORNAN: No Dick -- the people of Florida, you aren't listening. Dick Gephardt has a tar baby that he can't let go. I want him gone. I want him out of office. I want to let him go. The Democrats can't let him go.

(CROSSTALK)

SKINNER: I thought we were America united, Bob. I thought we were America united.

DORNAN: Not on Gary Condit.

BATTISTA: We were for a moment or two there.

DORNAN: Right, for a moment.

BATTISTA: Susan in New York says Jessie Jackson should make a decision to stay out of this area completely. I can't help but feel that his only concern is for his own promotion. He will only serve to undermine or policies and our president.

Steve says, please put a muzzle on Jesse. His position on the Taliban facing the world court or world war is not an option.

Susan in the audience, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think it matters who goes over there, what religious organization they represent, the situation is so volatile that -- the Taliban hates anything Western. So why does it matter if someone who's Christian goes over, or someone who's Muslim goes over? It's America in general and Americans that they dislike.

(APPLAUSE)

BATTISTA: Well, and we're not even talking about options here, because the United States has taken the position they're not going to negotiate over this issue, so it's really not even an option to discuss who or what might be appropriate in a negotiating position.

Kenny (ph) is on the phone from West Virginia.

Kenny, go ahead.

CALLER: Yes, we have 6,300-and-some reasons that he should not go over there because Taliban is not going to negotiate to let bin Laden loss. The thing is to let the Bush administration go in and get bin Laden because it's never going to stop until all the terrorist are gone.

BATTISTA: Thank you.

Roxanna (ph), go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, one of my concerns is that everyone is given for granted that this might be a scenario where you can -- that is open for negotiation. And who is saying that the Taliban and whole situation is open for negotiation? And just because here in the United States you are very open to dialogue and you can always debate your ideas and your positions, doesn't guarantee that the rest of the world is going to be that. So it is very arrogant, I think, from the reverend to think that he's going to be able to come and negotiate, assuming that the other side is going to negotiate and sit down at the table, and this is just a back and forth of what you give me and what I give you.

BATTISTA: I guess the Taliban won't be appearing on "TALKBACK LIVE."

(CROSSTALK)

SKINNER: And what would you ask them, Bobbie? What would the question be?

BATTISTA: I've got a lot of them.

DORNAN: Well, maybe Jesse could then negotiate to bring their women out of the dark age and let them participate in life. Remember, the Northern Alliance has 182 nations that recognize them. The Taliban is down to one nation, Pakistan, We're probably letting -- not pressing them to break off because that's our only negotiation with them. But the Taliban is a throwback to ancient history, and the way they have abused women, how can anybody sit down at a table with these people?

BATTISTA: It's surprising that it's not the Afghan women who aren't, you know, organizing and overthrowing the government there to some degree.

DORNAN: That will happen.

(APPLAUSE)

BATTISTA: Let me go to Jack in the audience for a final thought on this, and then we'll move on.

Jack, go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, Bobbie.

I feel like it's almost a moot point know that we know Jesse Jackson has stated he will not be going, although there is still some room for discussion on what merits that had in the first place. I'm kind of been bothered a little by Mr. Dornan's opinion and attitude. It seems almost that he has a personal vendetta against Jesse Jackson, and that's not really called for right now.

DORNAN: No, I don't. No, I don't. It's just that every time a priest touches an alter boy or a rabbi or a minister is caught in a murder or an adulterous affair I think it damages religion in general and keeps people who are searching at a time like this to find some solace in God, there's nothing worse than bad example by members of the clergy.

SKINNER: Now, Bob, come on, judge not lest you be judged, Bob Dornan.

DORNAN: Well, I don't touch alter boys, I've got 13 grandchild coming up, and I'm not one of those adulterous congressman hiding the past. Sorry.

BATTISTA: Thank God, Bob, or you're not going to be on TALKBACK anymore either. OK.

I've got to take a break. We are going to move on here. There is news today that there may be possible U.S. military action going on in Afghanistan. We will talk about that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: We're back.

Are we beginning to hear of some U.S. action in Afghanistan? A senior U.S. official confirms to CNN that U.S. special forces are conducting operations inside Afghanistan. That report first appeared in Pakistani newspapers and in "USA Today." The Pentagon has refused comment on military operations, as they do. On the other hand, military experts have told us that they would be surprised if such operations were not underway.

As you know, CNN is sensitive about reporting information that could jeopardize lives and ongoing military operations. It is CNN policy not to report on the specifics of imminent or real-time military actions when told by appropriate authorities that this could jeopardize lives or ongoing operations.

Bob, as a former fighter pilot yourself and a man who's been to Afghanistan a couple of times, I'm interested in your reaction to this.

DORNAN: Well, it's hard to say, when a nation has been so savagely wounded. But I said it a week ago on one of these shows; I said it the afternoon of the horror before building number seven collapsed in front of our face: patience, patience, patience. America must pray -- and I mean that -- pray hard and trust in the team we have together. Thank God that it is a team of experience people.

George bush, the son of the 41st president, has learned from his father's errors with Saddam Hussein. He will see this through to the end. And what he's doing is, I believe, is as close to perfect as anyone could devise a plan. Pray and be patient.

BATTISTA: I've got to tell you, there are a lot of people in the audience -- and we've had this discussion among our staff today ourselves -- there are people who are very uncomfortable that we're even talking about special ops being over there.

DORNAN: Oh, I understand that. Look, we can't bring these immediate killers to justice; they've already killed themselves. But I might say, when we point at these mass murderers of people in wheelchairs, pregnant women, fiancees, wives and children -- should we look at them and say "Judge not lest you be judged"?

Let's get real on all these cliches we've used in the past. We're going after their sponsors, and it includes millionaire bankers who traffic in narcotic money, which kills thousands of Americans every year; and we're going after people that will now use airliners and American citizens and children as cannon balls to destroy other American citizens.

This is a whole new world, and we must trust our leaders, that they're doing it right.

BATTISTA: Nancy, are your listeners feeling better when they hear news about possible U.S. military operations -- and again we stress that we would never say anything here on CNN that would jeopardize lives or military operations -- but did...

SKINNER: Yes, we talked about that article today in the "USA Today." It was quite a surprise, actually, at least to me; but according to military people, of course they were there. I think the article said they've been in since September 13 and what they're trying to do is find Osama bin Laden.

They need to get on the ground and find this man, and I think that's the right approach, because we have to go after Osama bin Laden and his network. And a lot of my listeners have been concerned that we would have some sort of a knee-jerk reaction.

And it's so sensitive, Bobbie. They are is concerned that if we didn't think this through carefully it could turn into a holy war and we could lose the support of some of those moderate Arab countries and we could turn Muslims against Christians and, you know, then where does that end? So I think they're doing good job with it.

DORNAN: Bobbie, the partner of Osama bin Laden, his No. 2 man, more like a co-partner in evil -- he tried to kill the president, the fighter pilot, former Air Force chief of staff president of Egypt, Mubarak. So Mubarak knows that his life is on the line. And the 200 elite palace guard around Osama bin Laden are all Saudis of the Wahhabi type of Islamic people yearning for jihad. And his three sons are there.

They will all die for him. He will commit suicide before he will let the West have him. He'll probably do something where there's nothing left of his body. The banking people who have funded this, the governments who have tried to burn the candle at both ends, including some of those moderate countries, I can't tell you...

SKINNER: How far do you want to go, Bob? I'm curious to know: How far do you think we should go? Do you think, like some of the hard-liners that we should go after Iraq and Syria and any country that has been associated with terrorism in the past, or do you think we stick to Osama bin Laden and his al Qaeda network and deal with the other situations somewhere down the line?

DORNAN: I have seen a friend of mine suggest that we hit everybody, including China. it took my breath away because he's never been in the military. I saw a Republican enemy of mine who was a leader in the House suggest that we hit six countries. I say that we talk hard to these people in private; that this is whole new day -- almost 7,000 Americans slaughtered. They can no longer do what I was briefed on the Intel Committee...

SKINNER: But are you agreeing with your friends? Are you agreeing with your friend that we should go after all those countries?

DORNAN: No, I'm appalled.

What we should do is tell them in private that all the game playing is over. You don't send millions ever our oil money that have made you all billionaires -- you don't send it to terrorist groups to keep them quiet and, say, leave you alone. They want to slit your throats first, then they want to drive Israel into the sea, then they want to get us, the great Satan of the West.

BATTISTA: We might add, that while we're in the business of building alliances and coalitions, that these will be fluid, and we may need some of these people. I mean, this is going to make for some strange bedfellows before it's all over, I think.

And we're going to talk about that a little bit more in just a few moments with our State Department correspondent Andrea Koppel.

So we'll take a break and continue here in a moment. Hold that thought, Art (ph).

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BATTISTA: We're back. And before the break, Bob and Nancy, we were just talking about the unlikely alliances that may take place as this war progresses. And I heard one senator say that we should actually welcome the support of the devil if we have to in order to wipe out terrorism.

DORNAN: No, we are fighting the devil.

BATTISTA: But you know what I mean. In other words, the people -- the people may be concerned about what appears to be an alliance with Iran during this, or Syria.

SKINNER: Bobbie, we have history here. In fact, we trained Osama bin Laden to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. We trained and supplied Saddam Hussein. No, I think we have to be careful. We put all these people into place because at the time it served us, and it came back to haunt us. It is officially called blowback, so of course we have to worry. We can't repeat those mistakes. I think we have to be very careful about our steps here.

And for that matter, I think we need to look at all our allies that we have right now. I must say this, Saudi Arabia has sort of been playing both sides of the fence here. I know that we need them for our oil, but I think after all of this is said and done, we have to think about our own energy independence from that country, because that's part of the reason that Osama bin Laden hates us, because after the Gulf War we put our troops in there.

BATTISTA: I have to jump in here quickly, Nancy. I'm sorry to interrupt, but I do have to go back to Judy Woodruff on the news desk as we get ready for an FBI news conference. Judy, go ahead.

(INTERRUPTED BY CNN COVERAGE OF LIVE EVENT)

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