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CNN Sunday Morning

How do Religious Leaders View War Against Terrorism?

Aired September 30, 2001 - 08:21   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Just what is acceptable justice in the war against terrorism in the eyes of the faithful? We're going to talk about that. We also we want to ask you for your e-mails. You can e-mail us right now at ATTACK@CNN.COM. Send us in your questions or comments about this forum we're going to begin.

Here to talk about the subject matter are three guests. In Washington, Jim Wallis, he's an author, preacher, and activist; Adurahman Alamoudi, he's the founder of the American Muslim Foundation. And, from new York, Father Thomas Reese, editor of a national Catholic weekly magazine.

Good morning to all three of you gentlemen.

GUESTS IN UNISON: Good morning.

PHILLIPS: Mr. Wallis, why don't we begin with you, and let's talk sort of from a Godly perspective here on, what is the difference between justice and retaliation?

JIM WALLIS, "SOJOURNER'S" MAGAZINE: Well, Kyra, you said it well, we're going deeper now, and Americans are looking to the faith community for solace, and comfort, and support. But also for guidance as to how to respond.

There was a statement now signed by 3,000 religious leaders from every faith saying that, in the name of God, these who have done such utterly evil acts must be stopped, must be found, must be brought to justice. But it also says let us not, out of vengeance, understandable anger, lash out and retaliate in ways that harm more innocent people.

I think the bottom-line for many of us is the protection of innocent life. We've seen innocent life shattered, destroyed, by these evil acts, and we must not act out of their values, the terrorists values, but out of our best values and not our worst impulses here.

PHILLIPS: Let's switch over and talk about Islam for a moment. Mr. Alamoudi, I'd like to ask you to respond. Christians have been asking the question; many Americans have been asking the question of, Osama bin Laden, he claims to be a religious man and that he does his actions in the name of Allah. When you hear this, how do you respond? ADURAHMAN ALAMOUDI, AMERICAN MUSLIM FOUNDATION: Well, I respond like any other religious individual, whether they are Christian or Muslim or Jew. There is no religion, whether a God inspired religion or any other religion, that will justify terrorism, of killing of innocent people.

In the last two days, all Muslim leaders have been talking about a verse we have in the Quran that says that if anybody kills an innocent life, an innocent individual, as if he killed all humanity. And vice versa, whoever saves a human life, as if he saved humanity at all.

So, Islam does not condone any form of killing individuals in any way or shape. So, whether it is Osama bin Laden or Hitler or McVeigh or any of these people, they have nothing to do with religion.

PHILLIPS: So, if a man is acting outside of a moral compass, a religious compass, let's say, therefore he shouldn't be treated as a man of God. Would you agree with that, Father Reese? Let me bring you in. So, would this justify a manhunt for Osama bin Laden?

FATHER REESE, "AMERICA" MAGAZINE: Well, I think that Jim Wallis was correct. I mean, what we need to do is to treat this as a matter of justice, not a matter of vengeance.

Osama bin Laden has committed a crime. He has committed a crime against humanity. He should be apprehended. He should be stopped, so that he cannot continue to commit these kinds of crimes. But, when we do that, we have to be very concerned about innocent bystanders. We don't want to hurt other people when we're going after the aggressors.

It's the aggressors, it's the evildoers, that we want to get and to stop and we don't want to punish innocent civilians in a place like Afghanistan, who are already suffering tremendously, when we go after him.

PHILLIPS: When you talk about defending yourself from the aggressor, I guess you could look back to New Testament and talk about the Roman Empire. You can find your biblical base there.

Mr. Wallis, how do you find -- well, how do you go after the aggressor? And how, from a religious perspective, what is your feeling about protecting innocent civilians and how do you, I guess, sanctify that, in addition to going after the aggressor?

WALLIS: Kyra, when we speak about defending innocent lives, this is not a soft response from the religious community. This -- the statement says, deny them their victory. That means deny the terrorists their victory. They want to create a world in their image, where grievance and injustice justifies this cowardly, evil violence against innocent people.

We're saying, no. Go and find and stop and find and route out these networks of terror. But as you just said -- as you just heard, do not do it in ways that destroy more lives in Afghanistan or anywhere else. We must, in fact, act out of who we are. We must not let them drive us to be people God has not called us to be. That's a strong response and indeed not a weak response. Indeed, I think, in Afghanistan, the Bible says feed your enemies and bring, you know, heaping coals on their heads.

I think we should, as an act of justice, prevent a third of the people of Afghanistan from starving this winter. Part of our response to terrorism is to dry up the swamps of injustice out of which these mosquitos of terrorism breed. How can we act with justice and in fact take away their victory?

PHILLIPS: Mr. Alamoudi, what does Islam say about punishment?

ALAMOUDI: Islam says that you have to punish whoever commits a crime. But before punishing whoever committed that crime, we have to make sure that he did the crime and go after him individually. And I cannot agree more with Mr. Wallis and to, yes, bringing these people to justice, and from what we see here as a community, we feel that our government is doing the right thing. They are going through this very methodically.

Our community was a little bit troubled in the beginning, but now we are very sure that we will not go there and bomb people and do it haphazardly. And our community stands behind our government and to help in any way we can to bring justice into this issue, but we have to do it very well done and methodically done.

PHILLIPS: We have a couple of e-mails gentlemen, let me get to address this one here. This is from Ariya Ahrary, and she says: "My faith is still the same after the attacks. I know God was with the innocent people when they died and God is with those who lost their loved ones. As for my fate in life, that has changed. Now I am more eager to go to the refugee camps and help the innocent Afghan people."

Interesting perspective. Father Reese, have you seen a lot of this within your community?

REESE: Well, I think we've seen a response to this terrorist attack, which has been one of faith from a lot, a lot of people. I think the churches were more filled on the Sunday after the terrorist attack than we've seen since Easter or Christmas. People turn to faith in a time of crisis, because they come to a God who mourns with them, a God of compassion, a God who is concerned about their suffering. And I think they come to communities of faith, where they can be encouraged.

Because, you know, our faith is that death and evil don't have the last word, and I think that's an encouraging thing. And as your e-mail writer said, it encourages us to also act and do something in the world to make the world a better place.

PHILLIPS: I'd like all three of you to address this question. I want to address, thinking about war for a moment, many Americans say we need to think about being effective and not moral right now. When it comes to our freedom and democracy, many say there's just no room for compromise. Mr. Alamoudi, how do you feel about this? Effectiveness versus morality. ALAMOUDI: I don't think that we have to be effective without being moral, or being moral without being effective. I think that we have to be a balance; that we have to be very effective, but we cannot be very effective if we are not moral.

We have to take our faith into this with us, when we go, and do it effectively, because if you want to be effective without morality, in the religious community, or in the America community worldwide, I don't think that can work. And let me tell you, as a Muslim, we have received overwhelming support from the religious community. The churches that are around our Mosque, they came out to support us in many different ways.

And I'd like to give you just one example. A neighbor that didn't know their neighbors for 16 yeas, they went in and put some flowers in the room. So, we feel good here, but this talk of being effective without being moral is something that we cannot appreciate. I think that we have to be moral and effective.

PHILLIPS: Mr. Wallis, one quick thought before we wrap this.

WALLIS: Our best religious wisdom says that in fact to be moral and practical, come together. The terrorists would love to see the U.S. overreact, inflame tens of more millions of people. In fact, if we respond in a way that is effective and practical and moral at the same time, we will bring the right people to justice. We will send the signal that we care about justice for the rest of the people, who are not responsible, and we will, in fact, do what is the best thing to end terrorism in the long run.

PHILLIPS: I know there's one thing we can say, gentlemen: faith has taken on a whole new meaning across the world, that's for sure.

Mr. Alamoudi, Father Reese, and Mr. Wallis, thank you gentlemen for being with us.

GUESTS IN UNISON: Thank you.

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