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CNN Live Saturday

Egyptian Ambassador Discusses Middle Eastern Support for the War on Terrorism

Aired October 13, 2001 - 15:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: One of the major subplots to the war on terrorism and the strikes on Afghanistan, anti-American protest by Muslims around the world. Joining us to help us explain more of this dynamic, Nabil Fahmy, the Egyptian ambassador to the United States. Why? The president says he does not understand it. Why do we see these pictures?

NABIL FAHMY, EGYPTIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: Well, I think it is important to put them in context. You will always see pictures of demonstration, where they exist. But if you compare to the actual context in which they are, you will see that the majority of the people in the Middle East, including the Muslim world, are not on the side of the terrorist. And we should not assume them to be, because when one assumes that the minority that demonstrates -- they have a right to represent the majority -- ultimately empower the terrorists, and I think it's wrong.

I agree with the president that the focus is not against Islam. And we should not allow the argument to be -- to be taken hostage and marginalized. This is about criminals, terrorist criminals. They happened to be from the Middle East this time around, but there have been terrorists all over the world. Historically, you go back to Europe, the Red Army, the Beider-Meinhoff in Germany, the Japanese Red Army (UNINTELLIGIBLE). And frankly, Timothy McVeigh.

So, it's a problem, these are terrorists, let's focus on getting the terrorists.

KING: Grade the president in how effective he has been in making that case, that this is against terrorists, not against Islam. And as you do so, help us understand when he speaks here in the United States, we carry him on CNN, there is an international aspect to our network, CNN International, but does the average person in the Arab world see President Bush frequently enough to get that message?

FAHMY: What impressed me most about what the president said is that he realized this is going to be an ongoing debate. It is not going to be fulfilled by one explanation. And he knows that.

So he went to the mosque, the center here in Washington with the Islamic leaders, and he's going to have to speak out on the issue over and over again. Civilized societies will have a much more difficult time in dealing with this than the terrorists, so he is going to have to keep speaking about it. He is going to have to keep showing actual action in what he is doing. And we will do the same.

KING: One thing that would help him dramatically would be frequent outspoken comments supporting him from leaders in the Arab world. Can you tell what's your president, Hosni Mubarak, has done, and is that a fair statement that the Arab leaders, moderate nation, supporters of the United States, have an obligation to speak out and speak out frequently?

FAHMY: Obligation, sure, but actually we have been fighting terrorism for 10 years. So we have a national interest in fighting terrorism. This is not a response to the U.S. We are happy to do it, because we're friends of the U.S., but it is also our problem. We are on the same side on this.

President Mubarak has spoken out before the military attacks, after the military attacks, and frankly several religious leaders in Egypt have spoken out recently about this, condemning terrorism, and looking for a peaceful solution to this whole problem. So, Egyptians are speaking out. We tend -- and I understand this -- we tend in the news to cover the bad news, so one only sees the negative sense of it. But the Middle East is there. Work with it. Don't push it away, and then -- because it would only complicate the problem.

KING: When we saw the videotape released by Osama bin Laden, to his left, if my recollection is correct, was the gentleman who leads a group called the Egyptian Islamic Jihad. Tell us about that group and how integrated it is with bin Laden, whether it still has significant operations in your country, and what is being done to crack down on it?

FAHMY: The -- this organization in particular emerged after the assassination of the President Sadat. That's when it really started. It peaked in its activities in Egypt in the first three or four years in the '90s, and terrorism actually came almost to a complete standstill in Egypt in '95 and one incident in '97 after that.

It does not operate in Egypt anymore. All its members in Egypt have been arrested, and that is why those who were not arrested left the country, either to Europe or to Asia and other countries. We tried to extradite them, to no avail. But they are -- they have court cases, court verdicts against them in Egypt. They are on list -- on our list as much as they are on yours. So it is something which we stand on the same side with you on.

KING: The United States and Egypt are the two principal third parties, if you will, that tend to get involved in trying to broker disputes between the Israelis and the Palestinians. The Bush administration quite frustrated right now. There was a public spat with Prime Minister Sharon of Israel. Praise, very rare praise, from the Bush administration for Yasser Arafat this past week for cracking down on anti-American demonstrations.

The president has said it would be a giant help to his efforts to build an international coalition if the Israelis and the Palestinians could at least reach a detente, if you will, a cooling-off period. No one has any hopes for a comprehensive peace, but a cooling-off period. What is your sense of the situation right now, and do you get any sense that this behind-the-scenes pressure on both parties is having any affect?

FAHMY: Again, I agree with the president on this. When we dealt with terrorism, it was a sustained issue, a sustained campaign, where we needed the support of the public. To do the same now today in the Middle East, you need to engage the public. The foremost issue in the Middle East today with the public is the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, whether it's on the Arab side or on the Palestinian side.

Consequently, if you establish a detente, or have a process there, you will have a great opportunity of conserving a coalition to deal with other issues at the same time. But finding peace between the Palestinians and Israelis was always important. It didn't become important only because of the coalition. It was always important. But it would be tremendously helpful for the coalition if we could really manage it in a more coherent manner.

I have seen the Palestinians take significant measures to calm things down, and I see the level of violence deteriorating. I would hope that the Israeli government on its part would withdraw from the territories that it re-occupied after the recent events and that they would relax a little bit the restriction that are put on Palestinian travel, even from one Palestinian village to the other, because this is a process which we have to build on the momentum rather than fight against each other on.

KING: You mentioned the assassination of President Sadat a bit earlier. He lost his life, most believe, because he made peace with Israel. Any indications on your part now, has President Mubarak tried to move Prime Minister Sharon, any continuing dialogue at this moment, or is the separation to the point where the parties are not talking to each other?

FAHMY: President Sadat lost his life because of peace with Israel. Prime Minister Rabin lost his life for exactly the same purpose, trying to achieve peace with the Arabs. We all have a vested interest in this.

We are working with the U.S., with the Israelis, with the Palestinians to mover things forward. I am hopeful, but optimistic.

KING: I will ask you one more quick question. Osama bin Laden says in that videotaped message, all this would end, the terrorist attacks on the United States would end if the United States picked up and left. Withdraw from the Middle East, get your troops out of Saudi Arabia, stop supporting Israel, leave the Middle East, and all will be fine. Now, the Bush administration, the previous administration said that will never happen. And no one assumes that will happen, no one believes that will happen. But would it solve the problem in your view, if the United States just withdrew from the Middle East and said, you are on your own?

FAHMY: The U.S. part in the Middle East one can debate, support or disapprove of. But it's not a justification for terrorism.

KING: It will never happen in your view, though?

FAHMY: Whether it happens or not is not the point. There is no justification for killing civilians, one way or the other.

KING: Nabil Fahmy, U.S. ambassador from Egypt, we thank you for your time. A very difficult issue for the president to grapple with as he deals with the military campaign in Afghanistan, trying to hold together this diplomatic coalition. More testing on that in the weeks and months ahead as the war on terrorism expands from Afghanistan elsewhere.

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