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American Morning

America Strikes Back: Interview of Author Khidhir Hamza on Possible Iraqi Involvement in Anthrax Attacks

Aired October 15, 2001 - 09:06   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Back in the United States, new cases of anthrax contamination are fueling jitters all over the country. Right now, there have been infections in New York and Florida. There are cases of anthrax exposure in New York and Florida, and authorities are checking possible exposures altogether in New York, Boston, and Reno, Nevada. We have a team of reporters following each case.

Our Jason Carroll in New York, James Hattori is in Reno, Nevada, and Mark Potter is in Boca Raton, Florida.

James, I think you are starting here this morning.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right, I will start things off, Paula. Three people who were investigating the anthrax scare here at NBC were exposed to the disease. They are all being treated with antibiotics; they are not showing any symptoms, and they are all expected to make a full recovery. This investigation not just focused on the NBC network, but also on a mail processing center in southern New Jersey.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): In this mail center in Hamilton, New Jersey, process the letter, health officials say is the source of anthrax that infected an NBC employee. The sealed envelope was postmarked September 18 from nearby Trenton, New Jersey and addressed to NBC anchor Tom Brokaw.

Late Sunday, New York's mayor says the police officer who opened that letter, and the two lab technicians who handled it, were exposed to anthrax spores.

MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK: The police officer who actually retrieved the envelope upon testing, spores were found in his nose. And he was treated immediately with Cipro. Two of the lab technicians, one actually has -- was found to have only one spore in her nose or it appears to be one. She's being treated. And another lab technician had some on her face. And she's also being treated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The presence of spores either on in somebody's face or in the nasal passages does not necessarily imply that they were exposed to a sufficient number of spores or that that will ever then lead to any type of disease. CARROLL: Initially, investigators focused on another letter sent to Brokaw. So far, results from tests on that letter and one sent to "The New York Times" are negative.

To date, the mayor says only one NBC employee, an assistant to Tom Brokaw, has a confirmed case of anthrax. She has a cutaneous form of the disease, a skin infection. A second employee has symptoms which may indicate exposure. Tests are still underway. Both are being treated with antibiotics. Physically, both employees are doing well.

ANDREW LACK, PRESIDENT, NBC NEWS: I feel pretty good that we've worked our way through the health issue, which is my primary concern first, that for my colleagues, they can be assured their health is not at risk.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: Nearly 600 NBC employees have been tested as a precaution. Those test results should start coming back as early as this week -- Paula.

ZAHN: Thanks so much, Jason.

Let's move on to another part of the country. Officials in Nevada are breathing a little easier today after negative test results on four people, who may have come into contact with the contaminated letter sent to a Microsoft office.

CNN's James Hattori joins us from Reno, with the latest.

Good morning.

JAMES HATTORI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula. Good to be with you again.

The first order of business for the 160 or so Microsoft employees who are showing up for work in the building behind me is a medical update with local health officials, who have already told them that so far, the news is very encouraging.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN LEACH, MICROSOFT SPOKESMAN: The folks that I have talked to have, after listening to the discussions yesterday with the health officials, have expressed relief. They, according to the health department, have said that there is a very low risk, but any risk, obviously, is an emotional concern. But the employees I have talked to seem comfortable at this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HATTORI: Pretty comfortable because four out of six people who came in contact or close proximity to an anthrax-contaminated letter sent to Microsoft here in Reno have tested negative for airborne exposure. The other two are preliminarily negative; their final results are due this morning.

So far, no one has shown any suspicious symptoms. In any event, officials say because of the amount of anthrax detected in the letter, it is so tiny and not airborne, the public health threat is also very small.

Also this morning, we are still awaiting test results from the CDC which could identify the strain of anthrax, but Paula, one indication of how confident officials are is no one is even being treated for exposure, even as a precaution.

ZAHN: James Hattori, thanks so much.

As workers in American Media, in Boca Raton, get ready for another round of anthrax tests, a strange coincidence has surfaced. The FBI says the wife of the tabloid newspaper editor who died from anthrax actually rented an apartment to two of the suspected September 11 hijackers.

Let's go to our own Mark Potter, with the very latest from Boca Raton this morning.

That is a very interesting report, Mark.

MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, but I want to say at the outset that the FBI seems to be downplaying that report. A spokesperson for the FBI says that agents consider to it be a strange coincidence, but perhaps nothing more than that. And the agents want to stress that they have seen no known link between that apartment, anthrax, and the events here at this building in Boca Raton.

They have been watching that situation; it blew up in some papers over the weekend, but again, the FBI is not dismissing it, but certainly downplaying it as integral part of this investigation.

What is catching more people's attention in Boca Raton is that employees at AMI are being asked to take a second blood test, and we are told by health officials that that is normal in the case where officials are trying determine whether there has been an exposure to anthrax. They say you simply cannot get a proper reading from just one blood test. If you recall, some 300 employees here at AMI were given tests last week were given nasal swabs and blood tests officials. Officials tell CNN that five of those employees were found to be, in the words of officials, mildly reactive to a test for anthrax antibodies, but we are warned categorically that this test is preliminarily; it is not at all conclusive, and it could be even reversed with subsequent testing.

One local official said that all we know is that some employees have antibodies to something, and that is about it. It is also point out that there have been other false positives here before, early in this case, that later turned out to be negatives.

This investigation continues on. This is considered a critical week for the FBI in this criminal investigation because they are awaiting lab tests on material that was taken from this billing, and they have also been interviewing employees, hoping to find other leads. They are waiting these results, and that will help focus the next step of this investigation.

Paula, back to you.

ZAHN: Thanks so much, Mark. Mark, appreciate it.

In the wake of the anthrax scare across the United States, the anti-terror campaign is also targeting bioterrorism. Earlier on this show, former chief UN weapons inspector Richard Butler pointed a finger in the direction of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein.

Among those with that viewpoint is Khidhir Hamza. He is author of "Saddam's Bombmaker," and he is a nuclear scientist who headed Iraq's nuclear program until he defected, in 1994. Mr. Hamza joins me now from Washington.

Welcome -- appreciate you joining us this morning.

KHIDHIR HAMZA, "SADDAM'S BOMBMAKER": Thank you.

Who do you think is behind this anthrax scare?

It could be Iraqis are a major source. Iraq has a long history of developing anthrax in various forms, and an initial declaration declares 600 liters of condensed anthrax produced in Iraq. It takes some technology to produce the spores in the right size for inhalation, so it wouldn't be as small lab hidden somewhere that could produce them in the right form to be transported and stay active and virulent. So Iraq could be a major -- if it is not the source itself -- training for producing those spores and disseminating them.

ZAHN: If Iraq is involved with the training, what are you suggesting, then? Osama bin Laden send some members of the al Qaeda network to Iraq, and they sit around for a couple weeks and learn how to do this?

HAMZA: That could be a possibility that needs to be looked at. People could go into Iraq and get training and get even some supplies and leave with them, and do the final work somewhere else, and send it to the states. It is an angle to be looked at.

But actually, what remains is here you have an area where one has to attract the major sources, and one of the major sources of anthrax in the Middle East is Iraq.

So it should be just taken out. I mean, the regime there would be a source of danger to the United States and its interests.

ZAHN: Sir, what do you think is the direct connection between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein?

HAMZA: There are many indications. There are visits by the chief of Iraqi intelligence in Turkey to Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan and his associates. There are reported meetings between intelligence people and Mohamed Atta. There are many reported. This is not an overt operation; this is covert work we are talking about, so you don't expect to really get major leads. But there are some indications that there is cooperation between them.

ZAHN: You got a lot of your training in nuclear science here at MIT, in the United States. Is it true that a lot of the men involved in the Iraqi nuclear program also learned what they needed to know here?

HAMZA: Oh, yes. The leaders of the program mostly are trained here.

ZAHN: How well trained are they? How nervous does that make you?

HAMZA: Well, they are well trained. And of course, the training is on a student graduate program. But the real experience is gained in doing the program itself over there in Iraq. So it makes one a little nervous, and Iraq is in possession of a nuclear weapon design, and all it needs is a nuclear core to make atomic weapons. According to German intelligence, Iraq should have three nuclear weapons by 2005. Then would it be very difficult to take Saddam out. So the window will be closed then.

ZAHN: You make a very pointed reference to Saddam Hussein in the fact you think the United States should take him out. What would suggest to you the coalition that the United States has cobbled together here would ever stand for that?

HAMZA: It would be difficult to convince them. I think this is not going to be a coalition type of action. I think it would be hard right now for the United States to reassemble the coalition it had in the Gulf War.

But the Iraqi opposition is ready to do it on its own, with some U.S. support. So to doesn't have to be a major U.S. operation on its own.

ZAHN: In the meantime, Americans are living in fear of opening up envelopes and packages. What can you tell the American public this morning, to put this all into perspective for us?

HAMZA: Perspective that it really is a failed attempt. If it is an attempt to scare or produce the infections that were intended, it failed. Very few technicians are actually there, and the U.S. government is able to handle it. So it is a failed attempt, I would say.

ZAHN: What makes you so convinced the terrorists had something to do with this? Wouldn't you think that al Qaeda, based on all of their statements, would want to do something that would cause much more destruction and loss of human life?

HAMZA: It would be, but you see anthrax is easy to transport as a powder, and it can stay alive for a long period in a dry form. So if somebody would want to start some kind of a terrorism operation, a biological terrorism, anthrax would be a choice, and an initial easy choice. It's not a very effective choice; actually, it confirms what the experts have been saying, that bioterrorism is very difficult to carry in a larger scale, and very difficult to be successful at.

ZAHN: Khidhir Hamza, thank you very much for your insights this morning.

HAMZA: Thank you.

Really good to have you on board.

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