Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

America Strikes Back: Interview of Geologist Who Thinks He Knows Bin Laden's Recent Location by Rocks in Videotape

Aired October 18, 2001 - 09:22   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn now to the war front.

Our Christiane Amanpour tells us that airstrikes are hitting Kabul again, but have seemed less intense than in previous days.

Christiane joins us from Islamabad, Pakistan, with more -- Christiane.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Paula, this is the 12th day of the air campaign, and there have been more air raids on Kabul and other parts of Afghanistan, according to our sources. We have reports of attacks around Kabul; sources there say that it appears like a Taliban tank unit was hit and other military installations.

Also pictures have been sent out from Kabul by the Al-Jazeerah network. They did not see military installations; instead, they were taken to a civilian area that appears to have been hit. They report that some dwellings were hit, and they report civilian casualties.

In Kandahar itself, they report an attack on what they describe as a Taliban commando unit headquarters. Also, there they are claiming casualties, both civilian and otherwise.

Today, the Taliban's acting ambassador to Pakistan, spoke about the war campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SOHAIL SHAHEEN, TALIBAN DEPUTY AMBASSADOR TO PAKISTAN: Civilians are hit, rather than military targets. Of course, there are military targets, like airports, have been hit, from the beginning, and they have been frequently hit. But in addition to that, civilians have been hit. Now we have about 400 people killed in this bombing. And these are children, women, old men, and men killed, people who are not terrorists, who are normal people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: We certainly cannot confirm the numbers that the deputy ambassador is referring to. There have been reports of civilian casualties, and we have also had reports from the Pentagon that they are targeting military installations and Taliban ground troops. That is the report from the Pentagon. Back to you.

ZAHN: Christiane, thanks so much.

Since September 11, the search for Osama bin Laden has been the number one priority for intelligence gathering agencies worldwide.

Miles O'Brien has someone with him in Atlanta who says he just might know how to find him, even if he is hiding under a rock.

Miles, did you catch that interview we did earlier on with the bounty hunters?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I caught tail end of that. That was fascinating.

ZAHN: It was absolutely fascinating. One of the men we talked to said he doesn't even care he would get $5 million to turn one of these terrorists in, that as an Egyptian-American he is so committed to taking out the bad guys, as he called them, that he is going to spend many months to come trying to find some of those dozens on the FBI Most Wanted list.

O'BRIEN: Who needs Green Berets? Just set loose the bounty hunters, I guess. I don't know.

ZAHN: You've got a guy who knows a lot about this too.

O'BRIEN: Well, believe it or not, the rocks tell stories, Paula. That Sunday when the attacks began and we saw that dramatic videotape of Osama bin Laden with his diatribe to the world, many were listening to the words and trying to cipher out what was on Osama bin Laden's mind. This gentleman probably spent a little more time looking at the rocks behind him, Dr. Jack Shroder with the University of Nebraska at Omaha.

Good to have you with us.

He has spent many years in Afghanistan, studying it from a geographical and geological standpoint.

What did see when you saw that tape? What was in the rocks there that made you think you might have some inkling as to where Osama bin Laden was when he shot that tape?

DR. JACK SHRODER, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA AT OMAHA: Well, the rocks show different things that a geologist who has been around them before can tell a little bit about where they might be in general terms or more specific terms, but I'm not supposed to talk about the specificity of it.

O'BRIEN: All right.

I realize we've got to be careful and clear with our viewers here our goal is not to hinder in any way the effort to search for Osama bin Laden. But nevertheless, what clues can a geologist get from these rocks?

SHRODER: You can get quite a few clues, but again, the first thing you can do is tell whether it is sedimentary, igneous, or metamorphic. And then the attitude of the rocks is also important, to give us different kinds of information.

When I first saw the video, I thought I think I know about where that was taken. And more I can't say, because I'm not supposed to point out where he used to be. The point is he is not there now.

O'BRIEN: All right.

Let's take a look at a three-dimensional map of the religion and give you a sense, as we move in on region, of how you are able to get a sense of where he might or might not be. First of all, as we look at the big picture of Afghanistan, generally speaking, in the south it is a plain, more mountainous as you get toward the northeast. Then as you get a little bit closer in, if you could help us get a sense of what those rocks might hold and where they might be. We know they're not in Kandahar, because that is the plain that we were just talking about, but as we get over to these provinces, why don't you give us some idea what you are thinking?

SHRODER: The rocks that I'm interested in that look like where Osama bin Laden might have been once or in that area there. Paktika Province was my first choice, but now I have expanded it a little bit. But that is the basic area, and the Pashtun tribal homeland, where Osama has been hanging out of late, is in this area here, and of course, it spans the border over into Pakistan as well. And that border is quite porous. So Osama is probably somewhere in this region -- and I'm not supposed to be more explicit than that.

O'BRIEN: All right, so obviously, the efficacy of knowing where that videotape was shot -- because you don't know when it was shot, and he moves quite frequently.

SHRODER: Exactly.

O'BRIEN: Nevertheless, is it safe to say, when you look at the big picture, of the manhunt?

SHRODER: Yes, it is. We can see certain things. We get little clues here, little clues there. This is forensic geology and forensic geography at its best, trying to figure out where the guy is from whatever little clues we have.

O'BRIEN: Just briefly, you brought one chart with you, one map which shows the tribal migrations, which, when you compare that to the rocks we saw, might give you a better sense of where that tape might have been shot.

SHRODER: Right...

O'BRIEN: Professor, I am sorry, I'm going to have to interrupt you. We have some breaking news.

(INTERRUPTED BY BREAKING NEWS)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com