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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports

America Strikes Back: The Anthrax Investigation

Aired October 18, 2001 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our biggest problem is fear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: As a New Jersey postal worker also tests positive, investigators gain a new weapon in their hunt for those behind the anthrax mailings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A reward of up to one million dollars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Congressional offices are swept for spores. How worried are lawmakers? I'll ask New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.

And is anthrax being sent abroad? We'll go to Nairobi, Kenya.

Are U.S. air strikes clearing the way for ground troops? Can anti-Taliban forces take a key stronghold? We'll go to the Pentagon, Pakistan and northern Afghanistan, as "America Strikes Back."

Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington, where the government is taking new steps to stop the anthrax threats. We'll have extensive coverage over the next hour, including an interview with New York Senator Hillary Clinton.

But first we go to Joie Chen at the CNN Center in Atlanta for a quick check of the latest developments -- Joie.

JOIE CHEN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, here are the latest developments. Officials today confirmed two new cases of the skin form of anthrax, raising the total number of confirmed anthrax cases to six now. One involves a postal worker in Hamilton Township, New Jersey. Officials say anthrax-tainted letters sent to Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and NBC news anchor Tom Brokaw probably were processed at the Hamilton Township facility.

The other anthrax case confirmed today involves an assistant to CBS anchorman, Dan Rather. CBS says the employee, a young woman, is responding well to antibiotics. She developed symptoms early this month. CBS says no one else has become sick since then, and that it does not know how anthrax got into its building.

On Capitol Hill, it's business, almost, as usual in the Senate, but the House is closed. Lawmakers on the Hill are taking different approaches to the anthrax scare. The Capitol complex is being checked for possible anthrax contamination. Thirty-one people on the Hill have been exposed to anthrax. None are sick. All, though, are taking antibiotics.

Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge says that despite the new cases, thousands and thousands of other people have been tested for anthrax, and all results have been negative. The FBI is offering a $1 million reward for information leading to the arrest of people who have sent anthrax through the mail.

Four men convicted in the bombings of two U.S. embassies in east Africa were sentenced to life in prison today. All four were followers of suspected terror mastermind, Osama bin Laden. The 1998 bombings in Kenya and Tanzanian killed 231 people.

And in Afghanistan, U.S. warplanes pounded more than a dozen targets, including Taliban airfields, command-and-control facilities and terror training camps. As in past days, the capital city, Kabul, and the Taliban stronghold of Kandahar were hard hit.

In Kandahar, a CNN office was hit, but no CNN employees were injured. Also, U.S. radio broadcasts are telling the Taliban: Surrender now, or die.

That's a look at the latest developments. Now we go back to Washington and Wolf there. Wolf.

BLITZER: Thank you very much, Joie.

Now details about the increased number of confirmed anthrax cases in the United States. The two newest cases were confirmed today, bringing the total to six. One is an assistant to CBS news anchor Dan Rather.

CNN's Michael Okwu is in New York City with the latest. Michael, tell us what's going on.

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, this woman, again, is the assistant to CBS anchor Dan Rather. And she is the primary person responsible for sorting through mail in his office. Although CBS officials make the point, quite emphatically, that she has -- does not have any recollection of seeing any mail or sorting through any mail that was suspicious in any way.

Now, officials here at CBS say that she noticed a swelling on her chin on October 1st. Her primary care physician several days later prescribed penicillin. It was only after hearing about the anthrax case at NBC on Friday that she and CBS officials insisted that she be tested for anthrax. Of course, that test came back positive. She is presently on Cipro and her colleagues say that she is feeling fine. Earlier today, Dan Rather, at a press conference, said that he is ever more mindful of the fact that the media is a target.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS: As someone, a member of my staff said, that we are no more at risk today, knowing what we know, than we were yesterday, when we didn't know. That it -- the facts sort of shout that someone did not wish us well. Beyond that, we take it one day at a time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OKWU: Meanwhile, investigators are inside taking samples -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Michael, what about the mood over there among the employees at CBS News? You've been speaking to some of them. How are they doing?

OKWU: I have to tell you something, Wolf. People here are not very happy, but yet at the same time, it could be, dare I say it, that people are getting a little used to this. They are concerned, but they are plodding forward. The building is still open, it has not been evacuated. There have been no floors at this point that have been cordoned off. The only disruption appears to be the fact that people are just concerned about somebody that they like very much, though we are told that she is going to recover.

The only other thing that is also going on, is that people have to move from their area, just ever so slightly, occasionally, when officials come by to take samples from those areas, and then they immediately move back. So there is not too much disruption here at CBS today, and it is very clear that people here are resolute about continuing and moving forward -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Michael Okwu in New York, thank you very much. And this note: Dan Rather is Larry King's guest for the full hour tonight. That's at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, 6:00 Pacific.

Officials here in Washington are sweeping the Capitol complex for possible anthrax contamination. This, after officials now say 31 Capitol Hill workers were exposed to the anthrax bacteria. While this goes on, the Senate is in session, but the House is not. And that different approach has apparently irritated some lawmakers.

Our Congressional correspondents, Kate Snow and Jonathan Karl, are covering this story for us. Let's start first with Jon on the Senate side -- Jon?

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the headline here from Senate officials is that basically, all good news. They say that they have absolutely no signs that this has spread beyond the 31 people we knew yesterday tested positive for anthrax exposure. They are saying they now have -- that was the basis of tests of about 50, 31 of the 50 came back positive. They say now they have the tests of almost all the 278 that were tested on first day. And again, no more beyond the 31 positive. Plus, another 600 that were tested yesterday, preliminarily coming back negative. All negative all around, except for those first 31.

Meanwhile, the Senate did go ahead and have a session today, a very crowded session, because all their office buildings were closed, so senators and staff had to cram into their Senate office spaces. Not all senators even have offices in the Senate, in the actual Capitol building.

They have to work in the small -- what they call cubby holes. They are essentially little rooms that they use for little waiting periods between votes. But now they've been cramming staff in there and trying to get some work done. And actually, the Senate did get some work done. They had a vote on an appropriations bill for military construction, and they also -- the Senate Judiciary Committee had a hearing and confirmed five judges.

Meanwhile, over on the House side of the Capitol, a virtual ghost town. As we see, all House buildings were evacuated -- nobody there. And the House side of the Capitol building itself was completely closed off, because the decision of the House leaders to close and not have session until Tuesday. Back to you, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Jon.

Let's get some reaction on the House side to all these anthrax threats. Kate Snow, our other Congressional correspondent, she's over there.

Kate, I don't know if you've seen the headline in today's "New York Post." I'll put it up on our screen over here. You can see it right in front of me: "Wimps." Wimps -- that's what they're calling members of the House of Representatives for going into recess a little bit prematurely. What's the reaction up there?

KATE SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, they know all about that headline up here, Wolf. In fact, that's been the talk of the Hill, on this side of the Hill. Clearly, they don't like the headline very much, on the House side. On the front page there, was House Majority Leader -- I should say Speaker of House Dennis Hastert and House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt, side by side.

House leaders, both Republicans and Democrats, though, very much sticking by their decision, saying they don't think they made the wrong decision. They think, in fact, Dick Gephardt suggesting that maybe it was the Senate that made an error in judgment, showing up for work when they should have stayed home.

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REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), MINORITY LEADER: People have asked me all day, well, what message does this send to the terrorists? Well, what message would it send to the terrorists if we stupidly put people back in harm's way to be infected by anthrax? That hardly, to me, is an intelligent response.

So, we're trying to do right thing, and I think we did the right thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: Now, Gephardt was working out of a Democratic office nearby, close to the Capitol here today. Meantime, the House majority whip, Tom DeLay, and some other Republicans working out of a similar Republican office just across town, also next to the Capitol building.

Mr. DeLay says he thinks that the press may be overreacting a bit to the anthrax scare on Capitol Hill in its coverage, but he does not think that the House leadership overreacted. House aides will also point out to you, that the Senate came in today, you heard Jon Karl mention that they passed one bill for military construction. Well, House leaders say they did that yesterday, and if the Senate can't get their business done as fast as the House, well, then they shouldn't complain.

Also some House aides saying that all of this today, and all that you saw out of Senate was simply posturing -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Kate Snow over on the House side. Thank you very much.

And later this hour I'll talk with the former first lady and now the U.S. senator from New York, Hillary Rodham Clinton, on the anthrax threat on Capitol Hill, and in the state that she represents.

The director of Homeland Security is urging Americans to remain calm. Speaking at his first news conference since taking the job, Tom Ridge said that thousands of people have been tested for anthrax, and of those thousands, all have come up negative. Ridge said that although there are now six confirmed cases of anthrax, the system to combat the disease is working.

In his words -- quote -- "We are more vigilant today and continue to get more vigilant every day." Along with those encouraging words, the announcement of a one million dollar reward for information leading to the arrest of people sending anthrax through the mail. And along with that, a promise from Ridge to get the facts to the American people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: All of us, beginning with the president, appreciate the extraordinary patience of the American people during these extremely challenging times. We will continue to hold regular briefings, to ensure that the American people have as much information as possible, as soon as possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The anthrax threat also is raising concern overseas, particularly in one African country. Authorities in Kenya are investigating incidents of packages and letters containing a white powdery substance.

Let's get the latest now from our Nairobi bureau chief via videophone.

CATHERINE BOND, CNN NAIROBI BUREAU CHIEF: I'm Catherine Bond in Nairobi, Kenya. Kenya's health ministry says it's received three reports of packages that may contain anthrax. One was sent to Kenyan (UNINTELLIGIBLE) from Atlanta, Georgia, on September the 8th.

It was opened here just a week ago. He and his family have been tested for anthrax. So far they seem not to have shown any symptoms of it, but the package that they were exposed to has indeed been found to have anthrax spores in it. And a sample of that has been sent to the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta.

A second was received by the media division of the United Nations environmental program for (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here in Nairobi, and that is still being tested. The UNEP says that it has sealed off the office in which the package was opened, and it said that the package was stamped from Pakistan. The stamps were on the back of the package, not on the front of it. And on the front, in the corner where the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) English word, "immaculate."

On the third, was stamped in Nairobi and sent to a businessman in a provincial town in Kenya, called Miri (ph).

BLITZER: That was Catherine Bond in Nairobi.

But back here in the United States, the other anthrax case confirmed today involves a postal worker in Hamilton Township, New Jersey. Another postal employee there may also be infected. Both work at the Trenton processing and distribution center. That's where we find our reporter, Chris Huntington.

Chris, tell us what's happening on your end.

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We've got some more details, here. There are two workers who have tested positive in the Trenton area. One is a female letter carrier who works out of the west Trenton post office. She tested positive sometime in late September -- started showing symptoms in late September. She had a blood test and a biopsy. That is why officials are saying she is a definite.

The other postal worker testing positive is a male maintenance worker at this facility behind me, which is the Trenton distribution and processing center. He has had a blood test only. Health officials say they want to confer with the CDC before testing him further, but they are calling him a positive, just shy of a definite.

Now, there are over a thousand workers at this facility. Right now the facility is shut down for mail processing. The FBI, the CDC, New Jersey Department of Hazardous Materials are conducting a sweep of the building. No word yet on when this facility will reopen. The postal inspector here however said that there are some clues as to where that letter may have come from.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY ESPOSITO, POSTAL INSPECTOR: As this mail is being processed, on the reverse side of each envelope that's postmarked, a fluorescent ID tag is placed on there. And that tells what time that article of mail was processed, what machine processed it, and on what day it was processed. >From that we can determine information as to what time that mail entered the facility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNTINGTON: Now, the best lead they have to go on, of course, is the route conducted -- by the ordinary mail delivery route that this letter carrier had in west Trenton. We are told that she had about 200 to 250 drops on a regular basis, that she did not pick up mail from mailboxes. So in other words, the opportunity for her to handle outgoing mail, as they call it, was a little bit rare. Nonetheless, she would have processed mail for her route in that facility.

Now, the investigation from here, of course, will go through both of these facilities. So far, no traces of anthrax found at either of these facilities -- Wolf?

BLITZER: Chris Huntington in New Jersey, thank you very much for that update.

And joining us now with his insight on the anthrax threat and how to fight the disease, Dr. Philip Brachman of Emory University School of Public Health.

Dr. Brachman, thanks for joining us. What's your take right now, in terms of the big picture? Is this anthrax threat being contained?

DR. PHILIP BRACHMAN, EMORY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: I don't think we can say it's contained. I think we can indicate that there is a bioterrorist threat or threats going on in the country. We don't know, really, from what has been presented so far, whether this is due to a single perpetrator or multiple perpetrators working in unison, or, coincidentally, working separately. But I don't think it's contained.

I would have confidence that the Centers for Disease Control, the FBI, the local and state health departments are doing everything they can to identify what the problems are. And once identified, then maybe there will be some evidence as to who is behind all this. But I think the officials are doing a very good job in investigating what is happening.

BLITZER: What do you think it means, the apparent CDC conclusion that the strain that was found in Florida, the strain that was found at NBC News in New York -- comes from the same apparent strain? What do we learn from that, if anything?

BRACHMAN: I don't think we learn anything, other than if it is the same strain -- and if it is the common strain that's been previously referred to as Ames strain, which is a common laboratory stock culture, first identified in the Department of Agriculture Veterinary Lab in Ames, Iowa many years ago -- and that strain is undoubtedly located in many diagnostic labs throughout the country and the world.

So I think it being the Ames strain only means that it's -- the perpetrators have gotten it from a laboratory or a source -- not necessarily a common source, even though it's the same strain. That strain could be obtained from many different sources.

BLITZER: You worked at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for many years. What will they be looking for, specifically, in trying to come up with a culprit, who was responsible for this?

BRACHMAN: Well, I think they'll be looking for getting more information concerning the different strains. They can finger type the strains, that is, they can look at the genetic composition to see if there is any similarity between all of the strains, or if there are some differences. If there are significant differences, that may indicate where the strain came from.

But I don't know that that's going to be as helpful. They're going to do serological studies to try to determine the degree of contamination, and just get as much information as they can. I think it's a combined investigation, though, that the FBI and the states will make significant contributions, hopefully, to trying to determine where this is all come from.

BLITZER: I noticed that when the samples from -- that were sent to Senator Daschle's office here in Washington, they made a point in the Senate of saying they were sent over to Fort Detrick, Maryland, the U.S. Army base, for some investigation to try to determine whether, in fact, it was anthrax. Although, some other samples, presumably, were sent to the CDC in Atlanta.

What's the difference between these two facilities?

BRACHMAN: Well, the Army laboratory at Fort Detrick has had a great deal of experience working with the military aspects of bacillus anthracis, so that they are well-equipped to identify the organism, to look at potential material used for aerosol determinations, and look at the composition of powders and substances that might become of military importance, both to define the quality of the organisms, the concentration of the organisms. But even more importantly, the size of the particles that are in this powder that's being sent through the mails.

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Go ahead, Doctor.

BRACHMAN: Well, from what we understand in Washington, in Senator Daschle's office, the powder there was a very fine powder, of the proper size that creates aerosols. And if that's the case, as the officials have indicated, this would indicate a moderately significant degree of sophistication in preparing a very hazardous material.

Whereas maybe the rest of the powders that have been sent in the mails, if that's what it is, are more crudely based. And the particles, being large particles, really have not become totally airborne. And therefore we have more colonization, and maybe more skin infections, but not the inhalational form, though the first case was certainly inhalational, down in Florida.

BLITZER: And the inhalation is obviously much more dangerous. Dr. Philip Brachman of Emory University, I want to thank you very much for joining us.

BRACHMAN: Thank you.

BLITZER: Thank you.

And what might be the next bioterrorism threat? Some say smallpox. We'll have an interactive chat, already under way at cnn.com/community.

And in a moment, New York's junior senator, Hillary Clinton, talks about what lawmakers and their staffs now face, in the wake of all these anthrax incidents.

And the vice president comes face-to-face with what's left of the World Trade Center. His visit to ground zero, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

As we've just mentioned, U.S. senators are still at work, even though some of their offices are closed and being checked for any signs of anthrax. Earlier this afternoon, I had a chance to talk with New York senator and former first lady Hillary Clinton, about the precautions she and her staff are taking.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Senator Clinton, thanks for joining us.

Let me get right to the point. Have you been tested yet for anthrax?

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: No, I haven't, Wolf. My office is in the Russell Building, not in the Hart Building. And based on what we now know, there hasn't been a need for that. Obviously, I will monitor it, and have advised everyone in my staff that if they were in the vicinity of the Hart Building, or if they have any concerns that they want allayed, they should go ahead and do it.

BLITZER: And what about antibiotics? Some people are take Cipro, other antibiotics, as a precaution. Are you? CLINTON: No, and, Wolf, based on what I know, I don't think that's a good idea. I do not believe taking antibiotics, just for the sake of preventative mechanism that you are not exposed to anything, is really wise.

In fact, you know, you can build up resistance, so that in the event you were to need those antibiotics, they might not be as effective in the future.

BLITZER: You have a lot of young staffers, and some not so young staffers working for you. How nervous are they?

CLINTON: You know, my staff has been terrific. They've been working, literally, around the clock ever since September 11th, because of the extraordinary demands and needs that we faced, with attacks on New York, And they're still working, as we speak. You know, they're either here at the Capitol with me, or they're at home, on the phone, on their computers. Because we have so much work to do.

Now, they are realistic people. They're very practical -- that's why I'm proud of them and very happy to have them with me. So they sought out information, we've held several briefings. I passed on everything that I was told, my chief of staff did the same. So I think people have really taken it all in and made some very practical decisions about their own personal well-being.

BLITZER: And you must have instituted new security precautions, in your New York offices, as well as here in Washington.

CLINTON: Everyone has. All 100 of us have certainly taken additional precautions. We've been very well advised by the leadership here, the sergeant at arms, the Capitol Police. Everyone is working to, you know, make sure that everyone has the maximum amount of safety and awareness.

BLITZER: Governor Pataki's office was hit, as we know, in Manhattan. Now ABC, NBC, CBS, the major news networks, have been hit in New York. You have an office there. Are you doing something especially different in your New York City operation?

CLINTON: Well, I'm not going to talk about that. But we're taking every necessary precaution.

And I think that clearly, whoever is behind these attacks, has not only meant to try to harm people -- we know that. But it's obviously aimed at our media leadership, at our political leadership, in order to sow fear and disruption. And I think it's important that we all get the best possible information, that we separate our fears from the facts, and that we take necessary precautions, but that we don't allow our lives, or our businesses, our other activities, to be disrupted.

BLITZER: Do you believe Osama bin Laden and his Al Qaeda organization are behind these anthrax attacks?

CLINTON: I don't think we know that, Wolf. I think that the more we are learning, it points to a concerted, organized effort. And we're going to have to continue the investigation to determine what we can find out about it. So I'm not ready to point to any particular perpetrator, but I think it is fair to say that likely, there are connections among all of the incidents that we know about. And a well-organized effort.

BLITZER: Some of your colleagues, like Senator Joe Lieberman and others, are pointing a finger at Iraq, saying it's time the U.S. expand this operation, not only against targets in Afghanistan, but against Iraq, as well. Are you among those who feel that way?

CLINTON: I would support taking actions, based on the evidence that we have, whatever that evidence might be. I feel strongly that if we were to find out, and had credible evidence that there was a connection, we of course would take action. That would be in the line of self-defense.

BLITZER: I know you're pushing for a nationally televised town hall meeting to educate the American public. Does that suggest that the Bush administration is not doing enough right now to educate the public about the dangers out there?

CLINTON: No, not at all. In fact, I have spoken to Secretary Thompson about this idea, because I would expect that it would be an administration-organized and directed effort. I have no role or part in it.

It's merely an idea that if we had a program on at one time, where all the networks carried it, where we had the kind of scientific information delivered in really common-sense, down-to-earth terms that I've been hearing from the people here at the Capitol, where law enforcement was available to answer questions -- I think we would establish a base of factual information for the American public to act on.

And I know that information is coming. You know, your network has done a great job getting information out. But, you know, it's come piecemeal, and to be fair to everyone involved in these investigations, you know, what you know at 2:00 may slightly change at 4:00 or 6:00, and I think the American public kind of wonders, well, wait a minute, what am I supposed to believe?

There are also people who are going on the shows who are not directly involved, but, you know, they are propounding theories and making statements that may or may not be backed up by the evidence. So I think it would be good to clear the decks, and I would look to the administration, frankly, to work with the networks to lead such an effort.

BLITZER: Senator Clinton, thanks for joining us. Good luck to you and all your colleagues, as well as all your staff members.

CLINTON: Thank you very much, Wolf.

BLITZER: And you can get expert advice on the anthrax threat and find out more about which drugs are effective in my on-line column at cnn.com/wolf.

Now to protecting the public against potential germ warfare. As you may know, Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson announced a $1.5 billion campaign yesterday to counter the threat. Today, Homeland Security Chief Tom Ridge told reporters the government should increase the stockpile of antibiotics and vaccines, including the smallpox vaccine.

Why is the government paying attention to smallpox? Let's find out. Here's Joie Chen in Atlanta -- Joie.

CHEN: Wolf, we want to stress what Secretary Thompson said yesterday, that officials have seen no threat of smallpox use as a weapon, but given the circumstances, they are being very vigilant about this. Medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here in the studio with us. He's going to take questions sent to us on-line at cnn.com/community.

First, though, Sanjay, we want to spell out the differences between anthrax, which we've heard so much about in recent days, and smallpox.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: OK. Well, there are some very basic differences. First of all, smallpox is a virus and anthrax is a bacteria. Smallpox is very contagious, anthrax, not contagious. Smallpox, while it is very devastating, is only 30 percent fatal. Compare that to 90 to 100 percent fatal for inhaled anthrax. Smallpox really doesn't have any treatment, but as we've heard so much about recently, anthrax does have a treatment, and that's the antibiotics. Those are some of the basic differences.

CHEN: Sanjay, I know that as a child I got that little shot in the arm. In fact, you still have little spots in your arm where you got the smallpox vaccination. But I thought it had been eradicated.

GUPTA: It has. In fact, the World Health Organization still considers it an eradicated virus. In 1972 we stopped inoculating people in this country, 1977 around the world. In 1980, it was officially declared eradicated around the whole world. There are still some areas that do have the virus, some laboratories, primarily, that do have the virus and some stockpiles of vaccine. But for the most part no one has been inoculated in almost 30 years

CHEN: We have a couple of questions from the web chat audience. As I said, CNN.com/community. First question from Vancouver, Washington: "How does one know whether an old smallpox vaccination, from a childhood in the '60s and '70s is sufficient?" Exactly my point.

GUPTA: The real answer, the correct answer is that we don't know for sure. The Centers for Disease Control are basically saying it is unlikely that you are still protected from a shot that was 28 years ago. So probably unlikely.

CHEN: Next question from the web chat audience, from Pennsylvania. "How do you know if you have smallpox?" GUPTA: Smallpox has a very characteristic sort of beginning. Usually it is a virus that will start to affect your body in a lot of different ways. It will suppress your immune system. You will get flulike symptoms, just like anthrax. One of the characteristics is that it can be very physically disfiguring. You see pustules here on the face. Those can spread throughout the entire body. That is one of the sort of characteristic marks of smallpox.

CHEN: I've heard about smallpox. It can be very grisly. We have another question from Louisiana here. "It used to be, when they did the vaccination they scratched your arm. Is that the way they would do it again?"

GUPTA: Yeah. Essentially what they are doing and the way most vaccines work, Joie, is they are essentially giving you a little bit of the virus in this case, to try and stimulate your immune system to be able to fight off that virus if it ever sees it again. So you get just a very small amount, not enough to make you sick -- at least not long term. Maybe make you sick for a day or so. But your immune system will be able to fight it off the next time it sees it.

CHEN: One more question from the web chat audience, this time from New York: "Do anthrax and smallpox look the same on your skin?"

GUPTA: Not really. The cutaneous anthrax that we have been hearing so much about starts as a small bump and then gradually progresses to an ulcer. What that means is a dead area of skin. That is very characteristic. To differentiate that from the picture we saw few minutes ago, where you had these pustules, these little pockets all over your body that are filled with pus, actually. That is very different sort of picture compared to the anthrax.

CHEN: I'm a bit curious. At the beginning of this segment you were talking about the differences. You said there was no treatment for smallpox. But on the other hand, it is only 30 percent fatal. How could that be?

GUPTA: Good point. A couple of important things keep in mind is that many times your body will be able to fight off the virus with time. That is why the fatality rate is lower. What ends up being a problem oftentimes people with smallpox is what's known as secondary infections.

It makes your immune system not as strong as it used to be, so that something like a simple flu or a simple cold might be much more devastating. So doctors and people who are taking care of you have to be mindful of what are called secondary infections. Sometimes those are treated with antibiotics to prevent those from happening. Not treating the smallpox itself. Your body will do that, but you've got to keep mindful of those.

CHEN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta from our medical unit, thanks very much for joining us this afternoon. Wolf, we got good questions in from the web chat audience.

BLITZER: As usual, good questions, good answers from Sanjay. Thank you very much. It's a scene that still evokes strong emotions more than five weeks later. Vice President Dick Cheney toured the World Trade Center site today. Our report on his visit, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Just ahead, the latest on the president's trip to China and a live report on the vice president's visit to New York. But first, let's go back to Joie Chen in Atlanta with a check of the latest developments in the war against terrorism. Joie?

CHEN: Wolf, first we want to look at the latest information on the anthrax investigation.

Two new cases of the skin form of anthrax were confirmed today, raising the total number of confirmed anthrax cases now to six. One involves a postal worker in Hamilton Township, New Jersey. Officials say anthrax-tainted letters sent to Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and the NBC News anchorman Tom Brokaw probably were processed at the Hamilton Township facility.

The other anthrax case confirmed today involves an assistant to CBS newsman Dan Rather. CBS says the employee, a young woman, is responding well to antibiotics. She developed symptoms early this month. CBS says no one else has become sick since then, and that it does not know how anthrax got into its building.

Lawmakers on Capitol Hill are taking different approaches to the anthrax scare. It's business almost as usual in the Senate, but the House is closed. The Capitol complex is being checked for possible anthrax contamination. 31 people on the Hill have been exposed to anthrax. None are sick. All are taking antibiotics.

Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge says that despite the new cases, "thousands and thousands" of other people have been tested for anthrax, and all results have come back negative.

The FBI is offering a $1 million reward for information leading to the arrest of people sending anthrax through the mail.

In New York today, four men convicted in the bombings of two U.S. embassies in East Africa were sentence to life in prison. All four are followers of suspected terrorist Osama Bin Laden. The 1998 bombings in Kenya and Tanzania killed 231 people. That's the latest developments. Now we go back to Wolf in Washington.

BLITZER: Thanks, Joie. Terrorism is just one of the subjects on the agenda in China, as officials from 21 nations attend the Asia- Pacific Economic Cooperation Forum. President Bush arrived in Shanghai today, and will meet with Chinese president Jiang Zemin tomorrow. Mr. Bush says he is eager for APEC to go ahead with its free-trade agenda to get the global economy back on track.

APEC foreign ministers are working on a statement against terrorism. But Malaysia and Indonesia, which are predominantly Muslim, do not want to endorse the air campaign against Afghanistan.

Security in Shanghai is extremely tight. Residents have been told to stay in their homes or to leave town.

Vice President Dick Cheney, who has kept a low profile since the September 11th attacks, returned to the spotlight today. He toured the devastation at the World Trade Center site. Here's CNN's Maria Hinojosa.

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are at the site where the World Trade Centers once stood. This is where Vice President Dick Cheney has made his first visit ever since September 11. He has been having a very low profile since September 11, staying at undisclosed locations.

Today he came here to see where the World Trade Center once stood. He was able to get a sense of the enormity of what the attacks left. Also able to get a sense of the intensive labor that the workers have been faced with in trying to clear this debris. The most interesting part of this now has been that they have been able to clear away much of debris from around the area and now are able to dig deep inside.

He was also probably able to get the numbers, the statistics that still 4,613 missing, 456 bodies recovered. 400 of those have been identified. Over 200,000 tons of debris lifted. Later today, Vice President Dick Cheney at a dinner at the Waldorf-Astoria. Maria Hinojosa, CNN, New York.

BLITZER: Now to the Pentagon: top Shanghai officials say the campaign against the Taliban continues unabated. CNN military affairs correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us now with the latest details from the Pentagon. Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, American warplanes again pointed targets in Afghanistan, flying off three aircraft carriers and two land bases. But concentration again on fielded Taliban forces, particularly in the northern part of the country. Here a smart bomb hits a Taliban headquarters building in Kabul.

Another gun camera video released by the Pentagon today shows an armed vehicle at a barracks in Kandahar. That's taken out by a bomb. And this third video shows what's called the engagement zone where U.S. planes can pick out targets. A dug-in tank is spotted and then taken out with a single bomb. The war is going well, according to Pentagon officials, who also say that they believe that at least one top lieutenant to Osama Bin Laden was killed in the relentless bombing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: Is it accurate that a senior lieutenant of Al Qaeda might have been killed? Yes, it might have happened.

Do I know it of certain knowledge? No, I have the not been on the ground. But it would a good thing for the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: Pentagon sources say there have been more than 100 strikes set for today, which is day 12 of the bombing of Afghanistan. Again, the concentration is on Taliban forces that are arrayed against opposition forces.

Today, for the first time, the Pentagon indicated it may be willing to arm and feed the opposition forces, including the Northern Alliance. Defense Secretary Rumsfeld said that the U.S. would help out with food and ammunition. He did not specify how that aid might be given to the opposition forces. Wolf?

BLITZER: Jamie, I think all of us who have covered military matters over the years -- I learned something new this week when we discovered that those unmanned drones, those pilotless reconnaissance planes we thought were spy planes taking pictures now are armed with missiles. Tell us what is going on.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. is still not confirming that they have armed unmanned aerial vehicles operating over Afghanistan. But here we see a picture of a Predator armed with two Hellfire missiles.

This is from a test the Air Force conducted earlier this year in February, whether or not they could use the same unmanned spy plane that spots targets to also take one out if it had to. According to sources at the Pentagon, those tests earlier this year didn't go that well. But the Pentagon says the technology is not really that hard. They are still not confirming whether they have actually employed this technology over Afghanistan but we know they have it.

BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Thank you very much.

Meanwhile, in Afghanistan, military and humanitarian concerns are both part of the picture. While the U.S. and the Northern Alliance pressure the Taliban regime, Western nations are trying to deliver humanitarian aid to Afghanistan's desperately needy population. We have two reports from the region, the first from Pakistan's capital, Islamabad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There have been more nighttime attacks on Afghanistan. The city of Kandahar has been hit and hit hard. Reports of at least 20 loud explosions rocking the city. There are reports of fires. At least at this stage, it seems the city is relatively calm.

Also in Kandahar, reports coming that the Taliban are handing out weapons to citizens. There have also been reports of strikes on Jalalabad. There, the target: the television station and a suspected terrorism training camp.

Kabul was hit during the day. The television station Al Jazeera, the Arabic television station, was taken to a scene of rubble; presumably a housing complex which was hit during the strikes. Taliban officials say at least seven people were killed during that air strike.

This region is around the presidential palace. Also in that area, the Taliban defense ministry. Also hit during these air strikes, the airport and an army garrison. Two houses were also destroyed near a Taliban tank unit. So far, the Taliban claim that 70 people have been killed in Kabul in the last 24 hours. But there has been no way of confirming those reports.

Also today, aid agencies report that their warehouses inside Afghanistan are being looted. Doctors Without Borders say that their warehouses have been raided. So too the World Food Program. That's the latest. I'm John Vause reporting from Islamabad, Pakistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fighting is continuing across much of the north of Afghanistan, particularly centered around the strategically important city of Mazar-e-Sharif. Northern Alliance commanders say their forces are now within just three kilometers of the outskirts of the city. There is no way of independently verifying that position.

Northern Alliance commanders conceding, though, that a Taliban counteroffensive is underway and saying that they have lost ground to the Taliban in that counteroffensive now. We'll bring you more details on that as soon as they trickle down to us from the far north of the country. In the meantime, over the past few days there have been renewed reports of mass defections from the ranks of Taliban to those of the opposition Northern Alliance.

Earlier we were able to the meet and interview one group of those defected who say they defected sometime last week from the front lines north of Kabul. They spoke of how demoralized and frightened the forces of the Taliban were as a result of the U.S.-led airstrikes against them, but also saying, confirming that the U.S. strikes haven't really focused on Taliban front-line positions.

Matthew Chance, CNN, northern Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: Afghanistan is known for its rugged terrain. Coming up, an expert's insight on the lay of the land. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back.

You've probably heard it said that the remote, harsh landscape of Afghanistan offers Osama Bin Laden and his allies many places to hide, in remote caves and far underground. Joie rejoins us now with a guest who has some special insight into where those hiding places might be. Joie? CHEN: Professor Jack Shroder knows Afghanistan right down to each and every rock, as it were. He has been in Afghanistan extensively to map out that very rough terrain that we have heard so much about. He is now a geology and geography professor at the University of Nebraska at Omaha.

Professor, you can look at even the videotape. For example, we had seen some broadcast by Al Jazeera, given to them by some link to Osama Bin Laden. Looking at videotape, can you tell us something about the place where he is?

PROFESSOR JACK SHRODER, UNIVERSITY OF NEBRASKA: We can tell you a little bit about the rocks here. We're not supposed to talk too much about the exact place, but I have been in these areas before and I know a little bit about them. The rocks are quite interesting. There is a little hole over here that somebody dug, apparently. Perhaps an animal, but it's common for Afghans to dig back into the rocks for one reason or another.

CHEN: We wouldn't to give away any secrets. You could tell as a geologist -- not that you would necessarily advertise this to the public -- but you can tell pretty much in which region of the country?

SHRODER: Fairly close. Within, say, a hundred or a couple hundred miles.

CHEN: Just by looking at the nature of the sediment and so forth?

SHRODER: Yes.

CHEN: Let's look at some other pictures. We have a view of Afghanistan. Actually, was able to narrow it down through there. That would give us some perspective. I guess we can't see it here. There is a way to do it where you can look at both the geology, the geography and the tribal divisions that would give us some better perspective about where a hiding place might be?

SHRODER: Well, Afghanistan has got thousands of caves. Hand-dug caves, bulldozed caves. Osama Bin Laden himself is an engineer and probably knows something about making caves in really hard rock. The Afghans have dug them for thousands of years. For example, what you see here is a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) system where the underground water here is led to the surface by digging down from the surface first to find the water. Then they bring it out along the down gradient to an irrigated area here.

CHEN: This is the animation that we were talking about before. Using this kind of an animation we would be able to see for example, the tribal divisions and other perspectives that would help to us understand, perhaps, where somebody might be hiding out, what might be a stronghold area for Osama Bin Laden.

SHRODER: That's correct. We just lost our video.

CHEN: Oh, dear. We seem to have lost an entire picture as well as gotten a full image of here. Can we go back now to this image right here that the professor helped us draw up to explain something about the cave systems. How big are these caves?

SHRODER: These are just a few feet in diameter.

CHEN: They're really more tunnels than caves.

SHRODER: This a straight-down tunnel to the water table down here. What they did during the war with Soviet Union was to build these side places out where they could hide arms and where they could hide people. So actual (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that goes down to the surface and out on the surface that way, that would take the water out and then you would have a hidey hole somewhere along like this in various places.

This material here that I'm squiggling on is gravel, usually. Hard-cemented gravel. They just dig these down up to 100 feet down to the water. They can do a number of things off from there.

CHEN: Places big enough for people to hide?

SHRODER: Exactly.

CHEN: Big enough to work, develop hiding places for whole battalions of people?

SHRODER: Not whole battalions of people on this system. This is a pretty bad place to live in. It's wet and dank and dark and very small, and usually somewhat dangerous anyway, because there is no shoring up like you have in a mine.

CHEN: Professor Jack Shroder from the University of Nebraska at Omaha. Thanks for giving us your perspective and helping to us understand a little bit more. And Wolf, thanks for putting up with a little technical difficulty we're having.

BLITZER: No problem, Joie. The word caveman takes on a whole new meaning.

Amid the concern about war and anthrax, Americans go about their business at work and at play. A live report from baseball's playoffs when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Considering all our reporting this hour, you might very well think the terrorists are winning -- or if not winning, at least ahead. But despite the well-founded concern over anthrax, Americans for the most part are going about their daily routines. What better example of this than the tens of thousands of baseball fans who are expected to pack Seattle's Safeco Field for tonight's second game in the American League Championship Series? CNN's Sports Illustrated Tom Rinaldi is there.

Tom, I know it's a little early there. But did you get a sense, at least from the fans, that they are they able to enjoy baseball tonight without being overly concerned about anthrax or other terrorism?

TOM RINALDI, CNN CORRESPONDENT SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: Obviously it's a huge concern for everybody in America, but sports can play a role in this time, in this sort of setting, by providing people with an escape. This would certainly be a venue which is very enthusiastic and very energetic, Wolf. As you mentioned, nearly 50,000 people coming to Safeco Field, not just during the postseason but in nearly every game during the regular season to watch their Mariners.

Preparations underway right now for game two of the ALCS, Mariners versus Yankees. The only really obvious sign manifesting itself of people trying to send a message or do anything differently -- beyond patriotic songs being played before the national anthem and during the seventh inning stretch -- would be a sticker that's been circulating through the stands and among fans with two words featured on it. These two words say: "defy fear." A simple message being sent to the rest of America and, indeed, the rest of the world from this precinct out in the northwest. People simply trying to enjoy the baseball experience.

For fans that are heading in Safeco Field, the gates have been open half hour. Many coming out early to enjoy a postseason game. Mariners trailing one game tonight already to the dreaded Yankees.

But in terms of people coming and thinking they are going to be deterred and see some very high-visibility security, that really hasn't been the case. Media have their bags searched in a random patterns. Fans are not allowed to bring in large coolers or large bags, but for the most part people coming to Safeco have had an experience that they have been able to enjoy. It's been a raucous atmosphere as they cheer on their Mariners. Wolf.

BLITZER: Tom, very briefly. No metal detectors, no extra security precautions that you can discern?

RINALDI: There are additional security personnel here, but it's not done in overt way or any sort of intimidating way. People turned away at the gates if they carrying those sort of large articles to get into the stadium. But there are no metal detectors. There's nothing that would keep anybody from trying to come here with their children and trying to escape what has held so many Americans hostage in terms of their concerns of what's going on in the rest of world. Wolf.

BLITZER: OK, Tom, thanks very much. That's all the time we have for now. But I'll be back in one hour with more coverage, including a live interview with Connecticut Senator Joe Lieberman. Until then, thanks very much for watching. For Joie Chen, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. CNN's coverage of America's new war continues with "LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE."

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