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American Morning

Discussion with New York Governor George Pataki; Taliban Saying They Shot Down Two U.S. Helicopters

Aired October 22, 2001 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's quickly get Chris Burns on the telephone right now who joins us from Northern Afghanistan with the latest on airstrikes that have unfolded there.

Chris, what can you tell us?

CRHIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Paula, we watched in the past hour as apparently F-16s or F-18s streaked overhead by the pair, repeatedly around the Somali (ph) plain, and go flying over the front line between here and Kabul, flying over that front line and dropping bombs on the Taliban positions there. This is a second straight day that they have done that. It lasted about 20 minutes to half an hour. We saw the bright reflection of those planes, sort of a yellowish reflection against the blue sky, as they flew in pairs overhead, streaked over the front line, and dropped their bombs, dropped their payloads, over the Taliban positions.

The Northern Alliance commander here, Babajan (ph), was smiling the entire time, saying that he welcomed these airstrikes, as perhaps a bit late, but he is very appreciative of those airstrikes. He says that they targeted troop positions, Taliban troop positions along that frontline, as they had yesterday. That was first round of airstrikes along that frontline that struck at tank and troop position along the frontline.

The Northern Alliance is hoping that with those airstrikes they might get the upper hand and be able to move closer to Kabul. The commander, as well as other commanders we had talked to in previous days had expressed frustration that U.S.-led airstrikes had seemed to avoid that frontline. Of course as political context, that there have been international concern that if the Northern Alliance advanced too quickly toward Kabul, they -- you could start factional and ethnic fighting. However, it does appear at least that the U.S.-led airstrikes are giving the Northern Alliance a hand to move closer to Kabul, and that's essentially what the commander wants do -- Paula.

ZAHN: Chris Burns, thanks. We appreciate that update.

Time now to take closer look at the anthrax investigation. The newest case involves a postal worker in the nation's capital who is hospitalized with inhaled anthrax, the deadliest form. Thousands of other postal workers are being tested, and we are covering that story on several fronts this morning. CNN's Rea Blakey is live at D.C. General Hospital, where postal employees are being tested.

CNN's Kate Snow is on Capitol Hill, where despite anthrax concerns, the capitol building reopens today.

And CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen in Atlanta with more on the dozens of cases that have turned up around the country. We begin in Washington with Rea Blakey.

Good morning again, Rea.

REA BLAKEY, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.

The U.S. Public Health Service has deployed a couple of their disaster management teams here. They've just arrived on the scene. We have been watching a trickle of employees from the U.S. Postal Service, many coming in their own private cars. We have been told there would be a shuttle to bring them from the Brentwood facility, which is, by the way, closed indefinitely until there is determination as to how much exposure may have occurred there, and whether or not it might be safe for workers to return at some point in the near future. We have no idea what the circumstances is there.

I can tell you that there is somewhere between 20 to 50 employees who have already lined up here. The testing should begin any minute. They are instructed to pretty much move away from the media's cameras and into the facility, where the American Red Cross is there, and Mayor Williams, Tony Williams, who is mayor of Washington, has also set up his emergency management agency command center here.

The employees don't seem to be overly concerned. There seems a group moving in just behind us just now. These people seem to be rather calm, even though, we are told by the D.C. public health director, Dr. Ivan Walks, that there may be up to five people who are currently being monitored. One of those other individuals may be an employee of the U.S. Postal Service. Of course, the most serious and grave concern at this time is the one case of serious but stable inhalational anthrax reported at Inova Fairfax Hospital. A gentleman undergoing treatment, went to the hospital Friday after complaining of flu-like symptoms. And of course the issue for public health employees is to make certain they try and catch these symptoms early so that they can immediately administer antibiotics, because that is the best way to try to contain this disease, which could otherwise be extremely lethal -- Paula.

ZAHN: Thank you, Rea.

Authorities still don't know source of the postal worker's anthrax exposure, and the latest cases still causing concern on Capitol Hill. The Brentwood facility, where the newly infected employee works, processes almost all mail for the District of Columbia.

And CNN congressional correspondent Kate Snow is standing by on the Hill with word on the reopening of the Capitol. Hi, Kate.

KATE SNOW, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Paula. That is right, that postal facility of great concern here on Capitol Hill, because that is where all mail addressed to the U.S. Capitol would go through before arriving at an off-site facility here. That off-site facility, about 15 blocks south of here, has tested positive for anthrax exposure, as have two Senate office buildings and one House office building. Those buildings remain closed, at least for today, but the U.S. Capitol building itself actually is open this morning. Staffers, Congressional staffers, and aides coming into building this morning, working regularly. Anyone with regular ID can come in. Tomorrow, house and Senate leaders hope to be in session inside U.S. Capitol itself.

Environmental crews continue to run tests. They were doing this over the weekend. In fact, on Saturday night into Sunday morning, they were actually testing the Capitol building itself, making sure that it was clean of any traces of anthrax. There you see people in protective gear, Saturday night and Sunday morning into the capitol. They say that they are still testing some of the 19 buildings around the capitol complex, and they needed to do those environmental sweeps. That is why all these buildings have been closed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JOHN EISOLD, U.S. CAPITOL PHYSICIAN: Make no mistake, that was done specifically, so that I, the environmental services, and the investigators could do their job and ensure that when people are asked go back into these buildings and go to work, that their health and safety will be assured.

So the reasons for those closures had to do with practical issues of managing what has obviously turned out to be a fairly large situation that requires lot of attention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: A large situation in terms of environmental monitoring, but we should note that only 28 people, Paula, have actually proven -- tested positive for anthrax exposure, all of them in one particular area around Senator Daschle's office, so that is the good news. Some 400 people on Capitol Hill are currently taking a full round of Cipro antibiotics just in case.

Back to you, Paula.

ZAHN: Now the governor of New York is taking Cipro right now. We are going to put our focus now on what's happening in this state. Governor George Pataki is heading back to work in his Manhattan offices this morning.

They have been given an all-clear sign, no trace of anthrax then?

GOV. GEORGE PATAKI, NEW YORK CITY: Yes, they have, Paula.

ZAHN: Welcome. Good to see you.

PATAKI: Good to be with you.

There was an environmental finding of anthrax, but we did all that you have to do. That is clean it up, and we are going back in. The offices are open as we speak, and we are going to just continue to do business as usual and move forward, as all New Yorkers in Americans should.

ZAHN: Everybody is trying to, but have investigators determined the source of the anthrax that was found?

PATAKI: We don't know the source yet, but we do know whatever the source was, the anthrax environment in the office was located only in one spot, the other tests were negative, and it has been cleaned up. So everybody is back, and the offices are functioning well.

ZAHN: Have any of your workers gotten sick? Have they shown any signs of anthrax symptoms?

PATAKI: No, Paula, everybody feels great, I feel great, and I think that is the important thing. The real goal here is to frighten people, and if you look at the what has happened in New York, we have just a handful of cutaneous anthrax cases, they are not infectious. Everyone is going we to we hope and pray and believe to do well. And all the testing with completed over the weekend, we have tested state capitol, we tested AP, "The Daily News." We tested over 70 different swabs from ABC. They have all come back negative, so I honestly think that in the public mind, what is happening here is they are trying to frighten us with a very limited and ineffective attack, and we can't let that happen.

ZAHN: Were you tested, individually.

PATAKI: No, I haven't been tested.

ZAHN: Why?

PATAKI: Paula, what I have done is what everybody should do. There was very, very low risk, and I asked the medical professionals, and the CDC did a protocol for our offices, for everyone who works there, based on environmental finding. We followed that protocol. I'm actually off Cipro.

ZAHN: How many days did you take it?

PATAKI: Just five days as a preventative. Everybody is off, and we all feel fine, so it's very simple, if there is a reason to have any suspicion, have it checked out by appropriate authorities, and then follow the medical professionals, and if you do that, we can avoid all this fear. We can avoid unnecessary concerns that people have. Bottom line just handful of people in New York have been diagnosed, and we believe they are going to recover.

ZAHN: But let me ask you this, do you think that you all sent a confusing message by not being tested before you started taking Cipro as precautionary move?

PATAKI: Well the basic message we wanted to send is to follow the medical professionals's advice, and it varies based on the circumstances. There is a difference if there is someone infected. Like at ABC, there was someone who tested positive, but all the environmental results came back negative. In our office, no one came down with symptoms, or we believe was at risk, but there was an environmental positive finding of anthrax, so the CDC has different protocols for different circumstances.

ZAHN: So what you are saying is, you shouldn't be accused of overreacting here?

PATAKI: We are accused of following the medical advice, which is what everybody should do. Instead of acting in fear, or running off this way or running that way, just lay out the circumstances to your doctor, to your health professional, they will get the appropriate advice, and just follow that advice. It's great way to avoid unnecessary concerns, unnecessary fears, and allow us to gets back to normal, allow us go about what we are supposed to do. Hey, Paula, the Yankees won again last night.

ZAHN: Did we had to wait up to see that?

PATAKI: Yes but they won. But October is returning to normal, and New York is going to be fine.

ZAHN: Let's talk a little bit about postal inspections. We had a postal inspector on earlier this morning who described the investigation as incredibly intense. Could you give us some insights as to what is going on in New York right now, and in particular, organizations that would likely be targeted if it follows the pattern we have witnessed so far?

PATAKI: Well, all I can say is that the government officials are working incredibly well, incredibly cooperatively. The federal officials, the state officials, the city officials, all cooperating, sharing information, trying to do everything to investigate the possible sources and also to make sure that everything is done to prevent additional scares as has happened, and I'm confident that while you can never predict what might happen in the future given the inherent evil of people, their real effort -- frighten and divide us. That is failing. New Yorkers and Americans are strong, and united, filled with resolve. So I'm confident that we are as protected as we possibly can be. And that as we go forward, we should go about our lives, get back normal, go to baseball games, and go to restaurants and have a good time.

ZAHN: Don't stay up later than any of us should.

A couple numbers questions for you. The government has agreed to give the state of New York some $20 billion for the rebuilding effort. There is an additional $34 billion you are waiting for. If you don't get that, what will be impact? Do you think you are going to get it?

PATAKI: We are confident that the federal government and the American people are as supportive of New York as we go forward as they have been so far. The estimated cost of the cleanup and rebuilding is now about $34 billion. That is the gross number. Some of this will be reduced by insurance proceeds and others. So we think the federal government will be there to help with that. We are confident about that. The president has said it. The congressional leadership has said it. So the 20 billion is a very important payment, but we expect that there will be more, and we are confident that as we can justify costs, there will be more.

Now the other element is economic recovery. That is going to be extremely difficult, across the country, but particularly here in New York, where we have lost 23 million square feet of office space, tens of thousands jobs, revenues that we used to get at state and city level from the financial services industry, and from banking and others are going to be way off, and we are looking for help with infrastructure improvements to rebuild downtown Manhattan, help for workers who their lost jobs, so they keep health benefits and get additional support, help for small businesses.

We have more than 9,000 small businesses in lower Manhattan, most of which had no income for a month, and still face diminished income.

But, Paula the important thing that I want to stress here is that we have had enormous support from Washington, from the president, from the administration, the commitment of initial $20 billion dollars, from the SBA that has been here, already given out millions of dollars of loans to small businesses, and waived certain requirements. And we've gotten tremendous indications of support from the congressional leadership. So we will continue to lay out the nature of difficulties, what the economic recovery and the costs of rebuilding, and I'm confident that we'll have the support of Congress and the American people.

ZAHN: Will you come back and talk to us when you get that additional $34 billion.

PATAKI: Paula, I'd be glad to come back any time.

ZAHN: All right, Governor Pataki, thanks. And as always, go Yankees.

PATAKI: Absolutely.

ZAHN: All right, yes, those last two games were kind of scary to watch, those Yankees games.

Thank you again, governor.

PATAKI: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: We have to move attention back to the whole issue of anthrax. We have some -- sort of the latest tally put together for you, just to get a perspective on what we are talking about here. There are 41 reported cases in United States. That includes nine infections of disease and 32 exposures to the anthrax spores. We have heard about the different forms of the disease, cutaneous and inhaled. Well, CNN medical correspondent joins us now from Atlanta to really lay out the differences for us this morning, because there is so much confusion about this.

Thanks, Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: There is so much confusion. Let's start with the numbers. Let me break down. You said that there were nine infections. If you break that down, that is 3 infections from inhalation anthrax and six from skin anthrax.

Now as you noted earlier in our show, the inhalation anthrax is the much more dangerous kind, and we have a chart that outlines some of the differences between the two. Skin anthrax is not rare. There have been at least hundreds of cases over the past hundred years, mostly people who work on farms and with animals got it from animals. Inhalation anthrax is rare. There have only been 18 cases in the U.S. in the 20th century. Now with skin anthrax, the outlook is good with antibiotics. It is rarely deadly, especially if caught early with antibiotics so it doesn't get into your system, it stays on skin.

With inhalation anthrax, the outlook depends on severity. If antibiotics are not give until later on, then it definitely is a real possibility that it could be fatal. If antibiotics are given before symptoms start, in other words, if it's caught early, then the outlook is pretty good that the person will be OK.

Now with inhalation anthrax, it is a little bit tricky diagnosing it sometimes, because as we said several times, it starts out as looking like a flu-like disease, which many people have at many different times, and so they have to watch the person to see how are they progressing. There are some laboratory tests that can be done, but those tests can be tricky to do, and there is no one really good test.

However, with skin anthrax, it is much more obvious. It can start out looking like an insect bite or like a rash, but eventually, will become that rash, that ulcer that you see right there, and it is black in the middle, and that is really the telltale sign of skin anthrax. And so when they see that, they know what they are looking at.

With the inhalation anthrax, they don't always know what they are looking at -- Paula.

ZAHN: Thank you, Elizabeth. Sorry, you caught me nibbling on something there.

Why don't you give me a final thought on how people should avoid overreacting? Give me a chance to chew.

COHEN: Right, that is really key, because again, as we have heard several times, you just down want to just go taking Cipro. That would be a bad thing to do. If in fact you work for NBC, ABC, or one of those places where an actual exposure, then you would want to take Cipro. Or Governor Pataki worked at a place where they thought there was an exposure. However, if you haven't been near an exposure, you wouldn't want to take Cipro. It is not going to do anything for you, and it can make you sick. It has side effects. It can give you, for example, a terrible, terrible case of diarrhea for several days. Why would you want to do that unless you had been exposed to anthrax?

You also are contributing to antibiotic resistance in the community. In other words, those bugs that are out there in community may see Cipro so much if we overuse it and get smart, and start to turn themselves into organisms that became resistant to Cipro, so you definitely don't want that to happen either -- Paula.

ZAHN: Well, thank you for giving me that 30 seconds that I needed to get rid of all traces of that breakfast. There is not a whole lot of time in here between segments. Sorry about that.

COHEN: No problem.

ZAHN: Thanks so much for the update.

We are going to turn our focus right now back to the war zone.

Just a short time ago, CNN's Chris Burns told us there are new airstrikes near the northern front in Afghanistan. The Taliban are claiming that U.S. bombing killed 100 people in one hospital, and they now have claimed they shot down two American helicopters.

We get the latest word on that. More now from CNN's Walter Rodgers, in Islamabad, Pakistan -- Walter.

WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Paula.

Well, as U.S. airstrikes resume over Afghanistan, the Taliban has counterattacked with a war of words. Abdul Salam Zaeef, who has been acting as the Taliban spokesman here in Pakistan. He is the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan, held a news conference a short while ago. He accused the United States of bombing a hospital in the northwestern Afghan town of Herat. No way we can independently confirm this. The Taliban claims there were over a hundred casualties, medical personnel, as well as patients in the hospital.

This is of course just exactly what the Taliban has been trying to do, because it simply has not been able at this point come up with anything by way of a victory in its war with that he United States. The Taliban ambassador said that this proves, or this allegation of a bombing of a hospital proves that the United States is conducting a war of genocide against the Afghan people, because they have embraced Islam.

Here is the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDUL SALAM ZAEFF, TALIBAN AMB. TO PAKISTAN: It is now clear that America plans are intentionally targeting that he Afghan people, that goal to punish Afghan nation for having chose Islamic system. America is using against the Afghan people sophisticated and destructive weapons that have never been used before in any war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RODGERS: Earlier today, in Kandahar, Afghanistan, the Taliban invited a CNN News team in Kandahar to take pictures of four wheels, which it claims came from helicopter that the Taliban says it shot down over the weekend. Indeed, it flatly contradicts the Pentagon. The Taliban saying they shot down two U.S. helicopters. Where are the helicopters? We can't show you those, because the only thing the Taliban has shown us is four wheels. Why can't they show us the helicopter? The Taliban says that is impossible, because it came down in a minefield. Many are beginning to believe that this may indeed be a fabrication, an attempt on the part of the Taliban to boost the morale of its own soldiers who have come under a terrible pounding of U.S. bombing for over two weeks now -- Paula.

ZAHN: Walter Rodgers, thanks so much.

The Pentagon of course, is flatly denying those Taliban claims about shooting down U.S. helicopters.

CNN's Bob Franken standing by at the Pentagon with more on that -- Bob.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, let me start off if you don't mind, Paula, with the claim about 100 civilian casualties at that hospital in Herat. The Pentagon has a normal response, which is a non-response. It says it will take the questions under advisement. It is usually several hours before there is either a Pentagon denial, or an acknowledgement that there were civilian casualties, an acknowledgement how they were caused. They always point out here at the Pentagon that the cause could be ground fire, it could be in fact falling antiaircraft fire from the Taliban government itself. So that is the non-response here on that regard.

Regarding the helicopter, defense officials say it is absolutely untrue that any helicopters were shot down over the weekend. As for the weekend video which was by shot by the CNN crew, defense officials also point out that there have been helicopter parts on the ground in Afghanistan literally for decades. The U.S. of course did supply the Mujahedeen in its fight against Soviet Union, and there are parts scattered around the country.

The lettering by the away from Loud Engineering. Loud Engineering does make wheel have parts for aircraft, including helicopters. As I said, the Pentagon says that, again, this material could have been around for a long time. That is because the Pentagon is not showing the camera crew where the crash site is, that's an indication that this is all untrue.

Now there is a generic response to these claims, and it came over the weekend from the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff Richard Myers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEN. RICHARD MYERS, CHMN., JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: There is no truth to that. As Secretary Rumsfeld has said before, the Taliban lie, and I think they are looking for some good news for whatever purposes, internal, psychological benefits or whatever, but there is no truth to that. We have not lost a helicopter as they describe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

And of course, we have to say here, that since there is no access provided to U.S. reporters by the Pentagon, it is difficult to confirm either side -- Paula.

ZAHN: All right, Bob, thanks so much,

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