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American Morning
America Strikes Back: Look at Some of Taliban's Weapons
Aired October 22, 2001 - 11:23 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm in the map room and I'm standing approximately over where Moscow would be on this floor-sized map we have up here, and I want to do that just to talk a little bit with our military analyst, retired General Don Shepperd about what's different from today, from 1979 in the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Very, very different scenario at that time. Of course the Soviet Union viewed upon ---- by the world as a pariah in this case. If you look at the countries around Afghanistan, you get a sense of coalition which has been built.
GEN. DON SHEPPERD, (RET.) CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Indeed, Miles.
Basically a totally different situation, the Soviets, when they came into Afghanistan, wanted to occupy the entire country and hold it, established their own regime there for their own reasons. They also had a raid against them, the United States and other nations. Now what we have is the world, if you will, in a coalition against the Taliban itself, and the Taliban with nothing. Totally different situation.
O'BRIEN: If we can start in Turkey, because U.S. forces have a presence there. Insulake (ph) in a base that has U.S. forces. Normally taking care of northern no-fly zone in Iraq. That's a big part of mission. But with some careful navigating of airspace in Armenia, Azerbeijan, across the Caspian Sea, into Turkmenistan, can bring their force into the region.
SHEPPERD: Indeed, they can. And what's developing here. Now that's a long haul, from Turkey back to here, it's a eight-hour mission have to have refueling.
But what's happening here from a military standpoint is Afghanistan is now surrounded. You've got bases right here where we are standing in Uzbekistan, possible bases coming up in Tajikistan, access to all of the airspace, reportedly three, possibly four airbases in Pakistan for limited operations. Iran has given us access to rescue our pilots should they go down in the area. Then the navy in the Arabian Sea, with Marines afloat as well.
Also, much more airpower in the Gulf which has not been used extensively yet. These folks are isolated. Every bullet they fire has to be replaced. They have no friends. We're cutting off money. I would not want to be the Taliban. O'BRIEN: Let's Talk about bullets and what's on the ground in Afghanistan. Let's talk about the weaponry they might employ in this case. All of it really has lineage back to the Soviet Union and that invasion that we were just talking about. We begin with surface-to- air missile, the SA-7, which is a widely available surface-to-air missile, heat seeking, able to take down an aircraft, and it's so- called man PAD, meaning it's shoulder mounted. Very easy to find on the black market, isn't it?
SHEPPERD: Right, it stands for man portable air defense system, and it's easily available on the black market. It's very dangerous to - helicopters and any low-flying airplane. We use flares to divert it, but you can still be got; It's dangerous.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's see if we have some of the other examples of some of the weaponry involved here. Let's talk about armor for a minute, the T-54 tank, another sort of infamous, if you will, or famous, depending on which way you look at it, Soviet piece of weaponry. A lot of those still rumbling around Afghanistan.
SHEPPERD: Well, there are some of them. They have 650. We don't know how many are in commission. But the thing about this is it takes gasoline. We're cutting off the gasoline. We're cutting off the ammunition that it fires. And anytime you park this thing, it becomes a stationary target. I would not want to be a tank driver sitting in one of these, waiting for a laser-guided bomb.
O'BRIEN: All right, we'll stick in the big armored category here, the T-62 tank. This is yet another Soviet lineage tank, a little bigger than the T-54 tank, a little more advanced.
SHEPPERD: Indeed, uses a lot of gas as well. Both sides have a few tanks, and the Taliban have more. But we're after these wherever they are parked.
O'BRIEN: Let's take a close-up look at Afghanistan here. I think over the weekend, if folks weren't paying terribly close attention to the news, there was a bit of shift in the strategy. To date, we've been seeing strikes around the perimeter here, avoiding Kabul, perhaps purposely, out of concern that if the Taliban fell, what would takeover in the way of power afterward. Now it appears there is movement toward -- closer toward Kabul, a strike at Bagram, only 25 miles from Kabul.
On the one sense, it sort of seems like a familiar taking of ground type of invasion, but it isn't that sort of conflict, is it?
SHEPPERD: It is. Basically what we're told is that the Northern Alliance holds 10 percent of the country. But there is other opposition groups out there. This is a web, if you will, of alliances that shift back and forth. Remember, the Northern Alliance continues Bagram, which is not of Kabul approximately 20 kilometers. Now the distance between Bagram and Kabul is significant because it's a World War I scenario trenches, minefields, tunnels, this type of things, very difficult. But the Taliban also has a difficult problem. These areas shown here, Herat, Kandahar, Kabul, Mazar-e-Sharif, these are their strongholds if you will. That's a lot of space for 50,000 troops to defend. It's a lot of space for 15,000 Northern Alliance to attack.
We may not see cities fall and lines progress. What we may see is the rush to a Taliban collapse and the establishment of a coalition government in Kabul. That may be the solution. It's not a standard war.
O'BRIEN: So diplomacy and the Pentagon really have to go hand and hand.
SHEPPERD: Military is the means, diplomacy and politics is the answer.
O'BRIEN: All right, retired General Don Shepperd, our military analyst. Thanks very much. We do appreciate it.
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