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CNN THE POINT WITH GRETA VAN SUSTEREN
Another Anthrax Case; Two-Front War has Bush on the Spot; One `Most-Wanted' Handed Over
Aired October 28, 2001 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: THE POINT: TRACKING THE TERRORISTS, THE WORLD'S MOST WANTED. Another postal worker has inhalation anthrax.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We pray for our president.
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ANNOUNCER: He's on the spot and fighting a two-front war.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mass murderer operating from a cave in southern Afghanistan appears to be winning a public affairs, a public diplomacy battle with the world's communication leader.
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ANNOUNCER: Our POINT panel looks at why the Bush administration is facing the heat at home and overseas.
His startup money may have helped bring down the World Trade Center.
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BRAHMA CHELLANEY, POLITICAL ANALYST: He reportedly is controlling certain aspects of the financial transactions of the Al Qaeda network.
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ANNOUNCER: Is a U.S. ally hiding him?
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NIRUPAMA RAO, INDIAN SPOKESWOMAN: It was very clear that he was provided protection and safe haven in Pakistan.
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ANNOUNCER: And is the U.S. making any progress in tracking down Osama Bin Laden?
THE POINT: TRACKING THE TERRORISTS. Now from Washington, Greta Van Susteren.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Hello and welcome to our viewers in the U.S. and around the world. Another U.S. postal worker has anthrax. The CDC confirmed it Sunday. It's the first case of inhalation anthrax in New Jersey. And unidentified postal worker from the Hamilton processing facility has the infection. She's hospitalized and is improving. Two other postal workers from the same building, plus a New Jersey letter carrier have confirmed or suspected cases of skin anthrax.
Hamilton processed at least three anthrax letters -- and ones to the "New York Post," NBC anchor Tom Brokaw and to Senator Tom Daschle. And due to anthrax worries, history will be made tomorrow at the U.S. Supreme Court building. The justices won't use it. For the first time in 66 years, the Supreme Court will convene someplace else to hear cases four blocks away, over at Washington's federal court building.
The Supreme Court building is closed for testing because anthrax turned up at a warehouse that handled its mail.
The never-ending anthrax scare is part of a two-front war facing the Bush administration -- preventing terrorism in the U.S. and fighting terrorist overseas. How does he do it and how is he doing?
CNN White House correspondent Kelly Wallace has been listening to Washington talk.
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KELLY WALLACE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No comment from President Bush as he returned to the White House to this "Washington Post" report that the CIA is considering for the first time, since the 1970's, secret missions to assassinate individuals designated by the president as terrorists.
Mr. Bush's top advisers were tightlipped saying only the U.S. would do what it takes to defend itself.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The only way to deal with the terrorist network is to take the battle to them and that is in fact what we're doing.
WALLACE: But some lawmakers say the U.S. might not be doing enough. Republican Senator John McCain said the U.S. must ratchet up its military might now to win the war.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: It's going to take a very big effort and probably causalities will be involved. And it won't be accomplished through air power alone.
WALLACE: The almost daily aerial bombardment has so far not loosened the Taliban's grip on Afghanistan or turned up Osama Bin Laden. But the defense secretary says the administration never promised this was going to be quick or easy.
RUMSFELD: It's going to take patience and that is what's taking place. And it's going very much as expected.
WALLACE: What was not expected, the White House says, sophisticated anthrax sent in the mail. The president's chief of staff rejected criticism - the administration did not respond quickly enough.
ANDREW CARD, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Twenty-twenty vision is always better than looking back because it is looking forward. And I tell you; we've had a challenge in this country. We're meeting the challenge.
WALLACE: But Democratic lawmakers say the White House was not forthcoming in an attempt to keep the public calm.
SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), CONNECTICUT: We get one piece of information and the next is a contradiction or a modification. And that in itself creates its own source of panic.
WALLACE (on-camera): The administration is making adjustments. Senior Bush aides say Homeland Security chief, Tom Ridge, will now brief reporters as many as five days a week. White House officials conceding they need to do a better job coordinating the message.
Kelly Wallace, CNN, near Camp David, Maryland.
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VAN SUSTEREN: The two-front war has President Bush on the spot. That's the headline on the week's cover of "TIME" magazine. It calls the president the "defender in chief." "TIME's" Andrew Goldstein contributed to this week's articles and joins me here in Washington along with the criminal justice correspondent for "TIME," Elaine Shannon.
Andrew, first to you, is President Bush on the spot?
ANDREW GOLDSTEIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, he definitely is. And overseas, the war in Afghanistan is looking like it's going to take much longer than anybody had thought. And here at home, as the anthrax worries get bigger and bigger, you know it looks like his administration is, you know, failing to grab a handle around it. On both fronts, Bush is definitely on the spot.
VAN SUSTEREN: But Andrew, I remember from day one, the president said and his secretary of defense warned that this is going to be a long war. One like we had never seen before. So is he really on the spot or did he warn us?
GOLDSTEIN: Well, he did. But then last week, you had some Pentagon officials saying that we've abysserated part of the Taliban's forces. And so you had, I think, an expectation that this air war was doing better than we had thought. You also had news reports of Taliban soldiers defecting. And those kinds of reports are now switching to the other direction. Now, you see soldiers, you know, coming from Pakistan to join the fight against the United States.
VAN SUSTEREN: Elaine, how is the president doing on the domestic front with this war?
ELAINE SHANNON, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, the anthrax scare is just a huge problem. And it certainly didn't help when the White House appeared to be downplayed. We have a lot in our issue this week that I think people will be very interested in on what they knew, when they knew it. And it turns out that they knew that the stuff in the Daschle letter was extremely dangerous, extremely - aerosolized is the term of art - much sooner than they were letting on, that they knew that it was - this was distinctly different and what - much more sophisticated product.
VAN SUSTEREN: Elaine, though, do you think perhaps to give the administration a little leeway in this extraordinary time, that it wanted to make sure it didn't release any information that might, for instance, jeopardize military operations because there is a suspicion by some that this may be state sponsored?
SHANNON: I don't get that at all. I get confusion. I get - I'm talking to people who say that Fort Deterick was coming back in the immediate hours after testing the Daschle sample say, "It's very fine. It's aerosolized. It's -" They didn't know all that there is to know about it. As the days went on, they knew more. And now, they're talking about it very possibly has a chemical added in it, which is a very sophisticated process to keep it fluffy, to keep it flying in the air. This - when the stuff is in nature, apparently, it sticks together kind of like brown sugar.
VAN SUSTEREN: Andrew, Elaine says confusion when she talks about the domestic issue having to do with anthrax. Is that your reporting? Do you see confusion at the White House or do you describe it differently?
GOLDSTEIN: There's definitely confusion and just part of it is simply the message. I mean you've have - and now there's news that Tom Ridge is going to give five press conferences a week. Well, you know, the press conferences he's given last week, he never inspired any sort of confidence. When reporters have asked him questions about the science behind this, he's never really been able to come up with answers that were consistent.
VAN SUSTEREN: But you know, Andrew, I'm a little bit sympathetic in the sense that this is so extraordinary. I mean this is something we've never experienced before. You know, it seems to be that - isn't this to be expected or do we have - or is there a higher standard that we hold our officials to? I mean this is a major surprise to this new administration.
GOLDSTEIN: Well, of course. And you know, hindsight is always 20/20 and it's easy to be critical, you know, a way to - many days after the fact. But there's certain medical messages that the president and that Tom Ridge should really be communicating. There's been a big fiasco in Washington as postal workers are very upset that they're not being tested the way the congressional employees were. But the testing is not a screening process for anthrax infection. It doesn't actually do you any good to know whether or not your test comes back negative. The - you know, the president or Tom Ridge should be on the frontlines saying that to avoid the kind of public relations fiasco that he's got here in Washington.
VAN SUSTEREN: Elaine, does the investigation on anthrax show there's more than one letter that's filtering through the system?
SHANNON: They don't know and that's one issue -- is could the Daschle letter have tainted - infected all of these different spots? They're saying to me that there could one or more that we just haven't found yet. It could be in a bag someplace. It could have been delivered and people didn't realize it. What this is - there were lower qualities - larger clumps of anthrax that went up to New York, but this Daschle letter is truly dangerous. And if the sender has a stash of this stuff some place, we could be in for months of this.
They do think - they still sort of tend to think it's domestic rather than by state sponsor. But they don't know.
VAN SUSTEREN: Andrew, is the president content with his staff he's assembled to deal with these problems?
GOLDSTEIN: Well, he has, you know, told people to - you know, to tone down the criticism of both Ridge and Thompson. And so, you know, I don't know if, inside, he is pleased. But publicly and with his aides he has made sure to say that he is definitely happy with the advice he's receiving.
VAN SUSTEREN: Andrew, that - do Ridge and the secretary of HHS, Thompson, do they get along? Are they working well together?
GOLDSTEIN: They say that they do but you know, last week, there was a fight between the two of them over exactly what is this strain of anthrax. You know is it -Ridge thought that it was - or said that it was not as dangerous as what Thompson said. And they were giving Bush conflicting advice.
VAN SUSTEREN: Elaine, what - how does that happen, that there's so much confusion over this strain or what exactly this anthrax is?
SHANNON: Well, it's brand new and Fort Deterick got it. And I understand they were doing tests very rapidly. It's very difficult to handle though. And this is something that very few people have seen and those - the people who work on these weapons programs, these defense programs are just a handful.
VAN SUSTEREN: And Andrew, is President Bush a delegator or is he --used to be a delegator. Is he taking some of the control or responsibility back?
GOLDSTEIN: Well, he's still delegating this to his aides. I mean right now, what's he's trying to figure out, on the domestic front, is how do we get one unified message from the people who I've delegated all this power to. And he's trying to centralize that in Ridge right now.
VAN SUSTEREN: Elaine, before we end this discussion, any good news on the investigative front either on anthrax, something that's positive or favorable or on the hijackings?
SHANNON: Well, the - on the anthrax, the fact that it was by a sophisticated milling process, to make it very fine, that gives the FBI something to work with. They're looking for machinery or equipment that can do that. And it take somebody a very -- Ari Fleischer said a PH.D level person to do that. So that narrows the field too.
On the other hand, the notes misspelled penicillin. So what kind of a person are we dealing with? Somebody make it and somebody else sent it...
VAN SUSTEREN: Boy...
SHANNON: ... from another country? Who knows?
VAN SUSTEREN: Extraordinary. "TIME" magazine has some great articles this week. Andrew Goldstein and Elaine Shannon, thank you for joining and previewing them.
It took money to train the September 11 hijackers. It may have come from a man who now has disappeared. His story when THE POINT: TRACKING THE TERRORISTS returns.
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VAN SUSTEREN: Welcome back. We're going to go to the telephone now to Kandahar. CNN's Kamal Hyder is standing by with the latest - Kamal.
KAMAL HYDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Greta, earlier this morning, the aircraft - allied aircrafts appeared again on a bombardment mission in Kandahar, still targeting the city and the aircrafts are still in the sky. We have heard some really loud explosions coming from the west and the aircraft still in the air, specifically, finding their targets.
The city of Kandahar under a bombardment attack by allied aircraft -Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: Kamal, can you tell us the extent of the damage? Are you able to tell which targets were hit?
HYDER: Well, it is not - it's not easy to find out at this moment. We do know that the explosions are, you know, from the western part of the city. The aircrafts are still in the air and it is possible they be targeting other places as well.
There have been several loud explosions. Most residents of Kandahar were woken up by a huge explosion somewhere near the city limits and of course, it shook the walls and rattled the windows. After that, there were several other explosions and the aircraft are still airborne over Kandahar - Greta.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Kamal Hyder, thank you very much for joining us by phone from Kandahar with that update.
There are only 22 people on the FBI's list of the world's most wanted terrorists. But authorities want plenty of others. Today's "Washington Post" says last week, Pakistan handed over to the U.S. a microbiology student from Yemen. The man is wanted in connection with the bombing of the USS Cole. Officially, Pakistan denies it. Pakistan also says it is not hiding another man who may have financed the September 11 hijackers. CNN's Maria Ressa has his story.
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MARIA RESSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Once a standout student at the London School of Economics, Ahmed Omar Sai'id Shaykh is the man the FBI thinks sent start-up money to the hijackers for the September terrorist attacks.
CHELLANEY: He is supposed to be an expert in financial dealings. He reportedly is controlling certain aspects of the financial transactions of the Al Qaeda network.
RESSA: The British born son of Pakistani parents, he speaks five languages, perhaps a sixth, the language of violence. Known in India as Omar Shaykh, he was jailed in 1994 for kidnapping these western tourists whom he tried to exchange for the freedom of 10 jailed Islamic militants.
AK JAIN, ARRESTING OFFICER: He's really a (UNINTELLIGIBLE), bright man. And it was, at one stage, seven, eight of us had to pull him down on his back. So you know, an armed combat. He was fully trained.
RESSA: Arresting officer, AK Jain says under questioning, Omar Shaykh admitted he was supported by the Pakistan government's intelligence service, the ISI.
JAIN: He had told me that.
RESSA (on-camera): He admitted it to you?
JAIN: Oh, yes, yes.
RESSA (voice-over): The kidnappings came amid an increasingly violent struggle by militants to try to rescue Kashmir from a half century of Indian rule.
RAO: He was here on a mission that had received support from the ISI. And after his release, it was very clear that he was provided protection and safe haven in Pakistan with the direct support, with the knowledge and - obviously, with the connivents (ph) of the Pakistani intelligence.
RESSA: In 1999, Islamic militants hijacked an Indian Airlines jumbo jet in an ordeal that lasted eight days for 178 passengers and crew. It ended when India agreed to release Omar Shaykh and two other prisoners.
RAO: He was received by a lieutenant colonel of the Interservices Intelligence of Pakistan and taken away to an undisclosed destination. He did surface in Pakistan a few months later where he was obviously given protection and safe haven by the ISI.
RESSA: At the highest levels, Pakistan denies India's assertions.
ABDUL SATTER, PAKISTAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Otherwise, if you ask all the - India, you will find that even a hijacking hoax was blamed on the ISI, which was absolutely false. And similarly, whenever anything happens, without conducting investigations, without looking at the facts, India jumps to - jumps to the conclusion that Pakistan is to blame.
RESSA (on-camera): Whatever the truth this latest war of words is, it's just one more example of what a difficult tightrope the U.S. will have to walk in trying to keep the friendship and support of both these rival nations in its own fight against terrorism.
Maria Ressa, CNN, New Delhi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: Is the U.S. any closer to finding Osama Bin Laden? I will ask my next guest when THE POINT returns.
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VAN SUSTEREN: Has the U.S. made any progress in catching Osama Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda associates? I'm joined by Rob Sobhani. He's a Georgetown University professor of Middle East Studies and U.S. Policy.
Rob, I realize you're not over there working with the military, but you know, the region. And there's been a tremendous amount of military action. Do you think, looking at the region, that this is putting a lot of pressure on the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden? Is the U.S. closer?
ROB SOBHANI, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: I think it's putting pressure, Greta, on the United States frankly because every day, the more civilian casualties that we hear, puts the onus on the United States and increases the anger in the Middle East. So I think as the campaign goes on, we need to start thinking about we can counter the news that's coming out of the region in terms of the public relations, the hearts and minds.
VAN SUSTEREN: How about - public relations in the Middle - in that region or public relations here in the United States?
SOBHANI: Public relations in the region. I think the American people are definitely with the president. I think domestically, there's unity. But I think the most important thing is in the region. What can we do to change the hearts and minds in the region? VAN SUSTEREN: Well, explain why that's so important to viewers because most of the viewers are pretty mad about what happened at the World Trade Center and pretty mad about what happened at the Pentagon. Why should the public relations in that region matter to the American people?
SOBHANI: Because to the extent that we can dehumanize Osama Bin Laden, dehumanize Taliban, dehumanize Saddam Hussein, it makes it easier for our troops to go in and take care of Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban. But to the extent that he has the mass support, it makes it that much more difficult.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, it seems like - it seems like Osama Bin Laden, in some ways, is getting greater support there. You have people from Pakistan going over now across the border into Afghanistan to join forces with the Taliban. So it doesn't seem like that's working.
SOBHANI: No, it's not but that doesn't mean we have - we can't try. We need to try, try, try. It is absolutely important that we...
VAN SUSTEREN: How do you do that?
SOBHANI: Well, for starters, we need to start focusing. For example, there's one issue that everyone talks about - Iraq and the children of Iraq. There's one person, over the last 60 years, who's killed more Muslims. And he is a Muslim and his name is Saddam Hussein. We need to start talking about that. It's Saddam Hussein who's killed more Muslims not America.
VAN SUSTEREN: But again, talk - when you talk about talking about this, not here in the United States it has to be talked about. It has to be talked about over in that region.
SOBHANI: Absolutely, which is - maybe we need to start investing in an American version of Al Jazeera. Maybe we need to start putting together a programming that beams in Arabic into the Muslim world like Al Jazeera but with a - with a point-of-view of the United States, basically. We haven't done that. Maybe it's time we start considering that.
In addition to that, it's important, I think, very important - the families of the Muslims who were killed in the World Trade Center, also be taken to the region. They have lost their loved ones. Osama Bin Laden killed their loved ones. That is an insult in Islam. That's a crime in Islam. We need to do that as well.
VAN SUSTEREN: When do you - with what's going on in Afghanistan right now, is the Taliban getting closer to Osama Bin Laden or is a wedge being driven between the two?
SOBHANI: I don't think there's a wedge between the two. I think they are very close because the survival of both Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban is now in extripically linked to one another.
However, having said that, I think we need to start focusing on a message of post-Taliban, of the economics of a post-Taliban. We focused, in my opinion, far too much on the military and we have not focuses on what can happen after the military campaign. We need to start talking about...
VAN SUSTEREN: And in 30 seconds, what will happen afterwards? Let's assume that the Taliban folds, Osama Bin Laden is captured or whatever. What happens to Afghanistan?
SOBHANI: The former monarch of Afghanistan comes back, Mohammed Zahir Shah. He brings with him international aid package. Part of that aid package is a pipeline from Turkmenistan to Afghanistan, $300 million in direct foreign investments in Afghanistan, job creation and hopefully a better economic future.
VAN SUSTEREN: Rob Sobhani, thank you very much for joining us...
SOBHANI: Thank you.
VAN SUSTEREN: ... this evening.
Let me know what you think about the Bush administration's reaction to the anthrax scare. Send an e-mail to askgreta@CNN.com. That's one word, askgreta.
I'm Greta Van Susteren in Washington. I'll see you tomorrow. And next, "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" profiles the two U.S. aid workers being held by the Taliban.
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