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American Morning
America Strikes Back: A Look at the Northern Alliance
Aired October 31, 2001 - 10:24 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: As promised, we want to go overseas now to the Pakistani capital of Islamabad.
CNN's Bill Delaney now reporting with us, where it is nearly nightfall, in the early evening now there in Pakistan.
Bill, hello.
BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Bill.
Very much nightfall here. Midweek now in the fourth week of the U.S.-led bombing campaign in Afghanistan. Certainly no sense anywhere here in Pakistan that bombing is likely to end any time soon. A generally muted atmosphere here in Pakistan. We've had a few scattered and small frustrations against the bombing here today.
But one protest ended Pakistani tribesmen in the north. Pro- Taliban Pakistani tribesmen had been blocking roads for several days. They've called off that protest. That's good news for Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf. Now the president here continues to call for early end to the bombing. There is very much a full moon here tonight in Islamabad, Bill, and that means the next full moon will be Ramadan, the Muslim holy month. The president here, Pervez Musharraf, would like to see the bombing end by then.
He has said, however, when he visits Washington late next week, he will not be pressing that issue, he said, with President George W. Bush.
Now just in the past couple of hours, we have had another press conference with the Taliban ambassador here in Pakistan who again called the U.S.-led bombing campaign in Afghanistan genocide. He said 1,500 civilians have been killed in Afghanistan since the beginning of the bombing campaign. Those are numbers strongly disputed by the U.S.-led coalition.
The Taliban saying that U.N. special representative for Afghanistan proposed a meeting with the Taliban this Saturday. Taliban have rejected that, he said, because of U.N. indifference toward what he called the atrocities in Afghanistan. The Taliban ambassador saying, on the other hand, saying the U.N. should be doing more to get food in to Afghanistan. The refugee crisis on the borders with Afghanistan, Bill, continuing to grow, tens of thousand trying to get into this country. But the borders remain closed to all but what are described as the most vulnerable cases.
Back to you, Bill.
HEMMER: Bill, there were reports yesterday out of Islamabad, saying that the Pakistani president says he knows now of a split in Taliban leadership. What did he say about this? And do we have any indication as to what reports he was getting?
DELANEY: Well, we have no new information on that, but as the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said, you know, he is a pretty good source on that sort of thing, probably as good a source of anyone could possibly be, because of Pakistan's long involvement with the Taliban.
So no, no new information on that, but as the defense secretary said, very interesting information indeed.
HEMMER: Certainly. Bill Delaney in Islamabad. Bill, thanks.
Again, as we go out throughout this coverage in Pakistan and Afghanistan, we just heard from the leading diplomats for the Taliban.
Once again, it should be pointed out, despite what we are hearing from the Taliban, the Pentagon insists its military strikes are indeed trying to protect the lives of civilians on the ground. In fact, Donald Rumsfeld yesterday saying no country on the face of the Earth has ever done more to avoid civilian casualties. However, they are still a sad fact, a sad reality of war.
So who then makes up the Northern Alliance? And for that matter, just how cohesive is the alliance? Some questions may be answered later this hour when representatives of the Northern Alliance speak at the National Press Club in Washington.
For a closer look now at what we know now in significant questions that remain unanswered, here is Joie Chen with more on that.
Joie, good morning to you, with our guest again.
JOIE CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Yes, we do have Major General Don Shepperd with us, one our CNN military analyst, to talk with us a little bit about the Northern Alliance.
And I guess the first question is, how allied is the Northern Alliance, both from a military and political point of view?
DON SHEPPERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Joie, I'm taken back to the words of former first lady Barbara Bush, who said you dance with the one that brought you. The Northern Alliance is an effective fighting force that has held off the Taliban's complete control of the country for the last five years. They do it for their own reasons. They are an allied force of various bands and warlords. They are not the type of army that we normally think of. And Secretary Rumsfeld has been very careful to make sure the world understands that these people operate independently. They are not under U.S. control. We will do what we can to help them because they are there.
CHEN: Let's take a look at what the Northern Alliance does control. There have been varied reports on this, how much of the country is controlled by the Northern Alliance. I've heard as little as 5 percent, as much as 20 percent. But it does seem that mostly, they have kept to these areas, and really don't seem to have gotten much out of that, much more than that, despite the airstrikes.
SHEPPERD: Right, now remember, when we say things like that, we are thinking of traditional terms. We are thinking of the frontlines expanding, all of this turning red, capturing Kabul, capturing Mazar e-Sharif.
CHEN: Physical.
SHEPPERD: Physical territory. That may not happen. It may be the sudden collapse of the Taliban over time from the weakening, and then a coalition government formed in the Kabul area. It is important to realize that I have heard as much as 35 percent of the country contested by the Northern Alliance and their allied forces.
CHEN: Right, and if you think about the cities, that is of particular interest. Mazar e-Sharif up on this side, Kandahar down on this side, as well as Herat, some of the other cities. It might be a bigger question, not how much total territory they control, but these important locations.
SHEPPERD: Yes, remember now, the Taliban have around 50,000 of their own troops, supported by around 17,000 of the Al-Qaeda and Arab forces of bin Laden. So that's quite a number, compared to the possibly 12,000-15,000 of the Northern Alliance. They've been hitting all these territories, Herat, Kandahar, Mazar e-Sharif, because that's where the Taliban are. Gradually weakening them while we begin to supply the Northern Alliance and other opposition forces. When I say we, I mean U.S. and our coalition partners.
CHEN: Let's talk a little bit about the leadership of this Northern Alliance. The leader of this group, technically, is Burhanuddin Rabbani. I guess most governments in the world recognize Rabbani as the legitimate ruler of Afghanistan, even though he doesn't have that power right now.
SHEPPERD: He's been recognized by the United Nations as the head of Afghanistan. The Taliban are not recognized. In fact, they have diplomatic relations with one country, Pakistan right now, which is useful right now, so there is a mechanism to talk to them when necessary. But Masood, the military leader, was killed in a suicide attack a few weeks ago. It was a terrible loss, right before September 11th, a terrible loss in the Northern Alliance. They are struggling with internal leadership now after that. CHEN: Internal leadership, you did mention also their actual physical fighting force, which as we have seen, estimates 15,000- 30,000. They also are not tremendously well equipped.
SHEPPERD: No, they are not. But hopefully, the U.S. and coalition forces will begin to change that balance. They will be bringing in more equipment, more ammunition, more tanks, more armored vehicles, to carry ammunition from supply bases to the frontlines. They will be made, the Northern Alliance, will be made relatively stronger, while the Taliban is made relatively weaker, and it'll take time to make this happen.
CHEN: All right, General Shepherd, thanks very much. CNN's military analyst, Don Shepherd, with insight on the Northern Alliance. Thanks very much.
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