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Lou Dobbs Moneyline
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Aired November 02, 2001 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS MONEYLINE for Friday, November 2nd.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. Profound evidence today that the terrorist attacks have taken a huge toll on our economy. The nation's unemployment rate shooting up to 5.4 percent in October. That is the sharpest monthly increase in more than 21 years.
And after three years of intense legal battles, Microsoft and the federal government have reached a settlement. We'll hear what Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates has to say about it.
And on Wall Street today blue chips climbing higher despite that bleak unemployment report. But for the week, the Dow and Nasdaq down.
The nation remains tonight on the highest state of alert against the possible terrorist attack, but are warnings like the one issued by California Governor Gray Davis doing more harm than good?
American B-52s carpet-bomb Taliban frontlines near the Afghan capital. Northern Alliance forces say that could soon pave the way for an advance on the capital.
The Pentagon today said, the noose is tightening around Osama bin Laden, but it did not predict a time for his capture or defeat. Today, Rear Admiral John Stufflebeem said the United States-led bombing is putting severe stress on the Taliban. Today B-52s punished Taliban frontlines north of the capital of Kabul.
The Pentagon says land- and aircraft-based jets are continuing to strike Taliban armored vehicles and command-and-control facilities. But bad weather is slowing efforts now to put additional U.S. special forces on the ground to help in the coordination of those air strikes.
In New York City today, hundreds of firefighters protested the reduced size of recovery operations at the World Trade Center. Fist fights broke out, dozens of people were arrested during the rally. Mayor Rudolph Giuliani says the number of firefighters searching for victims has been reduced because of safety concerns.
Homeland Security Director Tom Ridge today said the nation's heightened state of alert will be in place indefinitely. Ridge's comments came amid tighter security at suspension bridges in Western states, particularly in California. California's Governor Gray Davis said a credible threat had been received against those bridges.
Major Garrett has more now for us from the White House.
MAJOR GARRETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Lou, let's first go to that warning that Governor Davis issued, calling it credible. Federal authorities made it clear in Washington today it was not -- in their terminology -- credible because it wasn't corroborated.
Now, we're getting into a little bit of semantics here, Lou, about the war on terrorism. Federal authorities sent this message not only to Gray Davis, but to other Western state governors, advising them to take law enforcement steps, but also advising them to keep it private, because it was not corroborated, did not come from a number of sources.
Gray Davis, nevertheless, put it out publicly, and it wasn't hard at all, Lou, to find people here at the White House who were critical of that decision.
Nevertheless, the homeland security director, Tom Ridge, as you just said told Americans today that the heightened state of alert across the country would remain valid indefinitely. And President Bush did his best today to try to explain why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're in a new day here in America. We're fighting a two-front war. And I believe most Americans understand that now, and I appreciate the courage of most Americans.
But we have a responsibility as the government to protect the people. And when we see something that we think is credible, we hear something that might be real, we're going to notify the respective authorities to help harden targets.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GARRETT: Now, Lou, President Bush also made it clear he personally would never second-guess any governor, himself a former governor. He said he didn't like it when Washington told him what to do. But clearly, White House officials wish Governor Davis had kept that knowledge private, taken necessary security precautions, but not overly alarm Californians -- Lou.
DOBBS: A gracious response on the part of the president. Yet it leaves open the question of how soon could we expect to see corroboration by the Justice Department of these concerns, which apparently were profound enough to alert Governor Davis.
GARRETT: Well, it's an interesting thing, Lou, and I think the federal government is learning as it tries to deal with state and local authorities, trying to teach them and in some ways teach themselves exactly how to grade these level of threats. The highest level of threat is the kind that the government put out on Monday, saying from several sources believed to be credible that the nation should be on a heightened state of alert for about a week.
This one sent to California Governor Davis and other Western governors was of a less credible nature, though more specific, dealing with bridges. So everyone is trying to deal with it. But clearly, the White House would have preferred that the information had been dealt with internally, more security precautions taken, but nothing said publicly so as not to overly alarm citizens of California or any other Western state.
DOBBS: Well, history certainly teaches us all that more information in the public arena is better than less. Major Garrett, thank you very much for bringing us up to date from the White House.
DOBBS: The United States has been bombing in Afghanistan for nearly a month. As the campaign against the Taliban and the al Qaeda goes on, there are rising questions about our military and geopolitical strategy.
Ralph Peters joins us now. He is a retired lieutenant colonel. He is the author of the book "Fighting for the Future." He has some novel thoughts on how the United States should be handling this campaign and what our appropriate strategic concerns are.
Colonel, good to have you with us.
RETIRED LT. COL. RALPH PETERS, AUTHOR, "FIGHTING FOR THE FUTURE": Great to back with you, Lou.
DOBBS: Colonel, let me start, you in a recent editorial wrote that there's a misplaced concern in Washington about stability, some concern about the way we're carrying out the campaign in Afghanistan with an eye to not destabilizing certain regimes, principally in Central Asia and the Middle East.
Why do you think that that is an erroneous view on the part of Washington?
PETERS: Well, Lou, while everybody is focused on the military campaign, and rather anxious to declare defeat -- although this is going to be a campaign that goes on for years -- what I don't see in Washington is any new thinking whatsoever about strategy.
Lou, if you closed your eyes and listened to the rhetoric coming out of the State Department and the National Security Council, you'll hear alliances, consensus, containment, stability. With your eyes closed it could be 1961 as opposed to 2001.
And we haven't even gotten over the Cold War in our thinking. We need new thoughts. And our obsession with stability at all costs -- meaning we'll support virtually any dictator who smiles in our direction -- has been one accelerating factor in the crisis of September 11th, not the cause, but an aggravating factor.
DOBBS: Ralph, do you...
(CROSSTALK) PETERS: We have to be willing to let decayed, rotten regimes go down. Instead of focusing on stability at any price everywhere, we should be thinking hard about how to manage instability, how to help the world right itself. But our days of supporting every dictator that gets in line should be over.
DOBBS: Specifically, let's talk about some of the countries and their governments for whom the United States has at least acknowledged there has to be some sensitivity. Let's start with Saudi Arabia. What do you think there?
PETERS: Lou, we've let the Saudis bully us for a long time. I have no sympathy with the Saudis whatsoever. They've been playing a double game. Americans died on September 11, and before, because of Saudi lack of cooperation with our intelligence services, because of Saudi money, because of Saudi complicity, and because of Saudi individuals.
Now, we don't have to go to war with Saudi Arabia, but we need to tell them, in quiet -- they don't have to do it publicly -- that it's time to lay the cards on the table. And by the way, any threat from an oil embargo should meet with decisive action on our part.
The Saudis haven't played their part and behaved morally.
DOBBS: And obviously, Ralph, you know the Saudis have sort of worked the other way to keep the flow of oil going here, and as you suggest there is a double game -- at least a double game, perhaps triple or more -- going here with a number of countries, besides Saudi Arabia.
Let's talk specifically about Pakistan. I know you have some strong views there as well.
PETERS: Yes, Lou. Well, if I may add one last thing on Saudi Arabia, I do understand they are keeping the oil flowing. That's not enough. They've helped kill Americans.
Now on Pakistan, we have a long history with Pakistan. We did just walk away from them after the Afghan war, but that said, in the last several years the Pakistanis' Inter Services Intelligence Agency has not only supported the Taliban, they've also supported al Qaeda.
I personally believe -- and have heard opinions that I respect from the region -- that they've also worked with bin Laden, not the whole ISI, but elements within.
They, too, have some blame and complicity. And so while if we can work with Pakistan constructively, if they've turned over a new leaf, that's fine. But the days of playing a double game have to be over there, too.
And don't be taken in by the red herring of "Oh, they've got a nuclear capability that you hear from academics." That can be neutralized relatively easily. Right now, we need to focus on the mission of avenging September 11th, killing the perpetrators of that deed and their supporters, and not let anything distract us from that core mission.
Lou, this is like a cancer, and you can't cut out part of a cancer. You get it all. And sometimes you have to cut out some healthy flesh around it.
DOBBS: Ralph Peters, as always, thanks for being with us.
PETERS: My pleasure, Lou.
DOBBS: Turning to the investigation of the anthrax attacks tonight: Spores have now been found in the office mailbox of a New Jersey book-keeper who has skin anthrax. Investigators suspect that a piece of her mail may have been passed through a New Jersey mail center that processed several other tainted letters.
And in New York City, a suspected case of skin anthrax at "The New York Post" has now been confirmed. It is the third case of anthrax at "The Post." All of those cases are linked to a tainted letter sent to the newspaper.
A top Pakistani official says anthrax has been found in at least one letter sent to a newspaper in Karachi. And German officials say two envelopes sent to an office in Berlin have tested positive for anthrax spores.
For more now on the anthrax investigation, we're joined by Susan Candiotti in Washington.
Susan, just how much attention are investigators paying to these overseas cases as they are pursuing, obviously, the investigation of the anthrax cases here?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, they're paying a lot of attention to those overseas cases. However, just like in the United States, preliminary tests overseas don't always hold up. In Germany, for example, more results are now in on the two letters there, and the results are negative. And in Pakistan, a government official says just that one letter is confirmed. Two people there exposed, not infected.
But the FBI is working very closely and monitoring the situation overseas. If, indeed, any confirmed cases are found there, they say they are working with their counterparts to see if they can make any connections to the cases here.
Now in terms, Lou, of the anthrax case...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: ... were any anthrax spores found in her apartment or found at work, and to date that has been negative. So we are trying to reconstruct her life to determine whether there are any leads that would help us determine how she contracted the anthrax.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CANDIOTTI: Now, the FBI Director Robert Mueller there is talking about the very mysterious death of Kathy Nguyen in New York -- the hospital worker who died of inhalation anthrax. As you know, they've been unable to establish any postal link or any other kind of link as to how she came into contact with the thousands of anthrax spores it would have taken to make her sick. She lived by herself, they have come up with negative results so far in her apartment, and they are really stumped by that one.
But investigators, Lou, did get a break today, as you indicated, in New Jersey, because they were able to establish at least a postal link with that New Jersey bookkeeper, having found anthrax spores in her mailbox at work. So, that's a new development; that's good news.
DOBBS: Susan, have the authorities revealed yet the origin of the letters, both in Pakistan and Germany?
CANDIOTTI: Not as yet in Germany. Of course, the results are negative on that one. They did say that they had stamps -- in Pakistan, they had German stamps on those letters. As far as the others, there -- the government officials there haven't released that much more information about them.
DOBBS: OK, Susan, thank you very much; Susan Candiotti from Washington.
Still ahead, we'll have more on the money that you donated to families of those killed in the terrorist attacks of September 11. Tonight, the story of an unusual challenge facing this woman, and why her effort to receive aid is more complex and more difficult than others. And those others are more than sufficiently difficult.
Stepped-up security tonight at the Golden Gate and other landmark suspension bridges in California. We'll have the latest details for you on that just ahead.
And, a settlement in the case against Microsoft. We'll hear from Bill Gates.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: National Guard troops have joined police and the Coast Guard tonight, protecting the Golden Gate and other suspension bridges in California. This increased security coming after California's Governor Gray Davis said there is credible evidence that terrorists are plotting a rush-hour attack on those bridges as soon as tonight.
Brian Cabell joins us now from San Francisco with the latest on the story -- Brian.
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, on a normal day the Golden Gate Bridge here would normally see a little over 100,000 vehicles cross. It looks as though this will be, in fact, a normal day, according to state officials. Likewise with the Bay Bridge, which connects San Francisco to Oakland. Normally almost 300,000 vehicles cross over that bridge. Again, the report from -- the traffic volume just about normal. Same thing with the Coronado Bay Bridge in San Diego, and the Vincent Thomas Bridge in Los Angeles. Again, the reports there: very normal activity.
Of course, what is not normal is the fact that there are National Guardsmen at all of these bridges. Here at Golden Gate on both sides, they are looking for anything suspicious. Apparently they have not found that. We should say they are not stopping any of the cars at this point. California Highway Patrol is also out and more visible; the Coast Guard likewise more visible. Some businesses told San Francisco employees they didn't have to come to work today if they were frightened. Apparently they were not frightened.
Motorists this morning that we talked to said they were not concerned.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very safe, no problem. The police were well in presence, and I felt totally secure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not going to change any of my habits. It's just being a little -- you just kind of look over your shoulder a little bit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is America, and if you let them scare you, then you've just fallen into their hands.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CABELL: This heightened security alert continues for all four of these bridges in California through next Wednesday. Governor Gray Davis has taken some flack here from local officials, from state officials, from some editorial writers who think maybe he overreacted to uncorroborated threats. He is sticking by his guns for now, Lou. He says he would rather be safe than be sorry.
So these security alerts -- this alert, these National Guardsmen, will stay for now. Back to you.
DOBBS: These are difficult choices for all of our governmental leaders to make as to what information to share or not share. And it appears that most of our leaders are deciding more is better than less. Brain Cabell from San Francisco, thank you.
Congress is focused on safety this evening -- safety on aircraft and on Capitol Hill. Congressional leaders decided this evening to place 100 National Guard troops on patrol on Capitol Hill. Those patrols will begin next week.
Meanwhile the House and the Senate are facing tough negotiations over how to overhaul airline security. A bill by the Senate would federalize those security workers, while the House measure would not.
Kate Snow tells us what's next -- Kate.
KATE SNOW, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well Lou, as you mentioned, what passed the House last evening is very different -- a very different vision of airport security and airline security than what passed the Senate. Also a very different vision than what House Democrats had been pushing for.
House Republicans successful in backing what the president wanted, calling for a bill that would provide for oversight -- federal oversight of security screeners, but not necessarily federal employees doing that work. It was a close vote, though. Republicans pulling through for the White House. The bill passing, providing this federal oversight but, again, allowing private companies to do some of the work.
Republicans saying this would be a wiser way to go; that it would be quicker to implement, and less bureaucratic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. J.C. WATTS (R), OKLAHOMA: This legislation was about safety and security for those moms that I see in airports almost on a weekly basis that has (sic) a baby chair in their arm and a child in the other arm, and they're rushing to get to the gate. This bill was about them; making sure that they have the peace of mind -- that we have safety and security when they utilize an airport.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: And Democratic Leader Dick Gephardt says he was disappointed by the vote last night. He says he worries that now this issue is going to get held up or bogged down. He said if they had passed the Senate version of the bill, it could have gone straight to the president. But as it stands now, there will have to be what they call a Conference Committee assigned to this. And he worries that that could take some time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D-MO), MINORITY LEADER: You can't look these pilots and flight attendants in the eyes much longer and say, well, we've taken care of your security problem. I don't want to do that anymore. I want to do something; and I'm urgent about it, and we should all be urgent about it. That conference ought to be meeting today, and they ought to be getting it done over the weekend, in my view. And I hope they can try to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SNOW: That conference, again, to work out the differences between what the Senate had already passed and what the House passed last evening. House Speaker Dennis Hastert, in a written statement today, said he'd be willing to appoint those conferees to that committee next week. Lou, he says he wants to move things along quickly, too. The speaker saying he'd like to see a bill on the president's desk by Thanksgiving. Back to you.
DOBBS: Kate, thank you very much; Kate Snow from Capitol Hill tonight.
Coming up on MONEYLINE, American bombers are continuing their pressure against Taliban forces in Afghanistan. We'll have the latest developments for you in the war against terrorism.
Also coming up next: the story of a World Trade Center widow, and the bigger issue of the financial rights of illegal aliens, and whether they have any rights at all.
And after nearly four years of legal battles, Microsoft's antitrust troubles may be ended. Bill Gates, when MONEYLINE continues. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: These are the latest in the war against terrorism. The Pentagon says it's keeping the pressure on Taliban fighters by bombing networks of caves and tunnels near the capital. Northern Alliance commanders tell CNN that they are providing U.S. forces with information about Taliban targets and hideouts.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld today left for Russia and several counties in Central Asia as well. Tomorrow, he will meet with Russia's defense minister to discuss the war against terrorism and the U.S. missile defense program. The defense secretary is expected to return to Washington Monday.
A potential deal to settle the antitrust case against Microsoft. Microsoft and the Justice Department submitted their settlement plan to a federal judge this morning and must now wait for approval from the judge and 18 states that joined in that case.
Steve Young has more on the unfolding story from Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEVE YOUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The proposed settlement reached by Microsoft and the government calls for placing three independent software experts on Microsoft's campus to make sure the company plays fair with competitors. The company is barred from retaliating against computer manufacturers that dare to use non- Microsoft software. It would have to give PC makers the unrestricted ability to add certain desktop icons for competing software. And it would have to share critical design information with competitors on a timely basis.
But some critics, including RealNetworks and Sun, are calling it a Bush administration sellout.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: That's totally false, and we believe that this settlement is a very strong settlement, that it not only encompasses the relief that was signaled by the court of appeals, but that this has additional safeguards.
BILL GATES, CHAIRMAN, MICROSOFT: Along with this settlement come new responsibilities to communicate in new ways, to be even more open, and to offer new design flexibility. We accept these responsibilities, and we resolve ourselves to becoming an even better industry leader.
YOUNG: Some critics question whether the antitrust settlement has any teeth in it or just depends on trusting Bill Gates.
CHARLES JAMES, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: The point of an antitrust settlement is to have provisions in place and enforcement mechanisms that can assure the public interests will be served. We think we have accomplished that. We are not trusting Mr. Gates or any other antitrust defendant, we do that through our agreements.
YOUNG: The judge has given the states until Tuesday to say if they will sign on.
TOM MILLER, ATTORNEY GENERAL, IOWA: We will work very, very hard over the weekend and into Tuesday. The states are dedicated to do that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
YOUNG: Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly is expected soon to review whether the settlement in the national interest. If any of the states remain holdouts, she could start that legal proceeding on a parallel track -- Lou.
DOBBS: But for all practical purposes, Steve, this deal is done, isn't it?
YOUNG: Well, they are not going to change a comma or a word in it. The states will have to buy it the way it is or not at all.
DOBBS: But in terms of the agreement itself, even though we await Tuesday's final aspect of this, it does appear it is a done deal, right?
YOUNG: Done deal between the government and Microsoft.
DOBBS: All right. Steve, thank you very much, Steve Young, from Washington.
Earlier, I talked with Microsoft's Bill Gates, and asked him if he was exultant about this pending settlement.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GATES: I would say that we are very pleased that the uncertainty that the lawsuit always represented has been resolved. We made major concessions as part of this settlement agreement. But despite those concessions, we will be able to go on doing new and better products.
DOBBS: What is by some -- I guess we could call them wags -- being called the bureau of Microsoft, that is three people who -- one of which will be -- one of whom will be appointed by you, another by the Justice Department and another by the two, to take up residence on your campus and to watch your behavior and conduct. How do you react to that? That is a remarkable structure here.
GATES: Well, we are pleased to have that technical advisory committee. It operates as you said, and any desire by a third party to get more technical information, to understand the designs will come from that group, and we will be working with that group on a daily basis, making sure they see where we are going. They will have access to all the information, and so they can make sure that the third parties are getting exactly what they need.
DOBBS: A meeting Tuesday, a very important meeting, a judgment then. How do you think it will go?
GATES: Well, the attorney general and Mr. James this morning said they were hopeful that the states would join in. The states have made some very constructive comments about this being a step forward. We'll have to see as they come in front of the judge on Tuesday, but I think once they examine this, I'm hopeful they will see this settlement as the best way forward.
DOBBS: The best way forward -- you have been, obviously, very critical of the Justice Department's approach in this case, and understandably, given your position at Microsoft and being responsible for its direction. This last five years, this technical advisory group, number of the attorneys general with whom we have spoken say that that is not long enough. How persuasive and convincing do you think you can be on that score?
GATES: Well, the decree is very broad. It has got a five-year term, which in the technology business is an extremely long time. Of course, the government's opportunity to do additional things, whatever they choose to do, all of that is completely intact. But this -- this eliminates the uncertainty, this takes the resources that we and the government were having to put into this, and puts that to a close with some clear guidelines that let us move forward.
DOBBS: Let's talk just for a moment as we wrap up here, Bill, about visibility. It is a word that is overhung, of course, the entire market, but certainly technology -- less so your company. Is your visibility for Microsoft a bright and clear as a result of this agreement?
GATES: Well, I think there is a positive aspect to this in terms of understanding what the rules are and taking the steps to follow those. The industry as a whole, of course, is suffering from what's going on in the economy. PC sales are challenged right now. The arrival of Windows XP we hope is a very positive factor to push that forward. We need to do even more innovation to get us back in the heyday. And I'm actually quite optimistic that we'll be able to re- energize our industry and also the productivity we provide to the economy as a whole.
DOBBS: And you have as good a sense of this economy as anyone in business. What is your outlook for the next year?
GATES: Well, I don't think anyone has a very precise outlook. My optimism is that over the next 12 to 18 months I think we'll get back on a positive track.
DOBBS: OK. Bill Gates, thank you for being here, and congratulations on resolving this almost four-year-long dispute with the government, at least to this stage.
GATES: Thank you.
DOBBS: Bill Gates.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Coming up next here, the biggest job losses in more than two decades. Virtually every sector feeling the impact of the terrorist attacks of September 11. We'll have an in-depth look for you at employment in this country.
Also, we'll be telling one of the stories from the tragedy of the World Trade Center attacks that's making the charity process so difficult. And we'll be joined by the head of one of those charities raising money for the families of the victims.
ANNOUNCER: After the break, Lou speaks with CEO and executive director of the September 11th Fund, Joshua Gotbaum.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: For two weeks, we've been reporting on charities and the money they've raised on behalf of the families of the victims of September 11. Much of what we've reported goes to the issue of basic red tape, the seemingly endless paperwork that these families must fill out in order to receive aid. And fundamental to all of this, we still don't know how many people died on the 11th of September.
Among the thousands who did die, dozens we know were illegal aliens. And they left behind families who cannot document citizenship, cannot provide written proof that they worked in the Twin Towers, or in many cases, that they worked in New York City.
Peter Viles has the story of an illegal alien named Jose Morales and his family.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Felix Martinez says her common-law husband, an illegal alien named Jose Morales, was working in the Twin Towers when they collapsed. She says he worked somewhere in the towers cleaning a restaurant, but she doesn't know exactly where.
CARMINA MAKAR, CASE WORKER, TEPEYACK: She knew that he was working in the tower. And on September 11, he phoned Felix's cousin to tell him that he was in the tower, that he was OK. He said, "I'll call you back later."
When he didn't, Felix's cousin called her in Mexico and said this is what happened. So she came over right away.
VILES: And she came illegally. Until June, she and Jose lived with their four children in a small rural village in Puebla, in southern Mexico. The week of September 11, she said she flew to the border, crossed over illegally, and traveled to New York by van in hopes of finding Jose.
FELIX MARTINEZ: I tried immediately to do something to come here. So I arranged things and came over and tried to look for him with the help of my cousin. And I started to work. And I didn't know what to do. I still don't know what to do.
VILES: This is a mystery with few clues. Jose was illegal, so he had no Social Security number -- worked illegally, so he had no pay stubs. Now Felix is here also illegally, illiterate, speaking no English.
Officials at Pier 94 in New York have been flexible in opening case files like this. They have accepted sworn affidavits in cases where there is no documentation.
Lauris Wren is a specialist in such cases.
LAURIS WREN, NYC BAR ASSOCIATION: They don't know where he was working specifically. They don't know under what name he was working. They don't have an address where he was living, so they can't get the DNA samples to give to the police from brushes and combs.
VILES: But authorities have not opened a file on this case yet. It is simply too sketchy.
Beyond the missing paperwork, these cases raise a number of questions. If someone was in the country illegally, is the family entitled to the same aid and benefits as families of taxpaying American citizens?
Weeks ago, the mayor of New York made clear he believes that in this case those families are entitled to something.
MAYOR RUDY GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK: So if you are undocumented or if your family member or friend that you are seeking to find or find a death certificate for -- get a death certificate for is undocumented, you are safe. Nothing is going to be done to you. And in fact, we would like you to register, because at least from the point of view of whatever influence I have over the benefits, or both private and public, benefits will be shared with you.
VILES: For now, there is no answer for Felix Martinez and for the charities and agencies working to help families and victims, which face enormous obstacles in moving aid to those who need it most even when the victim is an American citizen and the paper trail is crystal- clear.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
So we've been asking, how can people fall through the cracks and not be recognized by any charity? This clearly an example of someone who may have fallen through the cracks, although the facts aren't clear here. But Lou, so many confusing stories here and so little progress in clearing them up as we go forward.
DOBBS: It just seems that almost any direction you take us in this investigation the questions seem to compound themselves and the answers seem to be fewer and fewer.
VILES: Although we have been reporting mainly on this overwhelming number of people for whom there is documentation. Those are the folks who have been most frustrated with the charity system here.
DOBBS: Thank you, Pete. Peter Viles.
More now on fund raising for the families of victims, a look at the September 11th Fund. Now the September 11 Fund has raised nearly $340 million in pledges. So far, $35 million of that money has been distributed.
Joining me now is the executive director and the CEO of the fund, Joshua Gotbaum. Good to have you with us.
JOSHUA GOTBAUM, CEO, SEPTEMBER 11 FUND: Good to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: Your fund, stepping up in the midst of this tragedy to do good work. You have pledged that the families would receive the money that you have raised. Are you still able to confidently say that you'll be able to keep that pledge?
GOTBAUM: Lou, absolutely. One of the really heartwarming things after the disaster was the -- how many millions of people reached out to help others.
DOBBS: Right.
GOTBAUM: And several million of them, by contributing to the September 11 Fund, which was founded by the United Way of New York City and the New York Community Trust.
Almost immediately, we began funding organizations that provided direct services, so that we have already distributed $47 million actually in grants to frontline organizations like Safe Horizons. which has written more than 15,000 checks to cover mortgage, tuition and other kinds of payments, to fund the creation of a referral guide to help people get help, to fund legal counseling, and to fund not one, but now -- first an initial hotline, but now a more comprehensive hotline to help people get help.
DOBBS: Joshua, that is terrific. But it is not quite the same thing as moving that money to the families of the victims. It seems there's a step there that perhaps people didn't understand there would be. That is, that you would put yourself in something of the role of an honest and generous and charitable broker. That is giving money to other charities. Is that a misconception on my part?
GOTBAUM: Lou, the September 11 Fund works exactly the way the United Way and the New York Community Trust that created it works it. Actually to your viewers I could say it's a fund. People make contributions. And then we, because we are knowledgeable in which organizations can help, fund them.
So that, for example, we funded Safe Horizons, which is an organization that was able to get down to the pier immediately...
DOBBS: Right.
GOTBAUM: ... beef up, interview people and write checks on the spot. They have written, let's be clear, 15,000 of those in the last six weeks.
DOBBS: Right. Three hundred -- approximately $350 million. Approximately 50 million of it has been disbursed to those charities helping in this disaster. What will happen with the other $300 million?
GOTBAUM: Well, Lou, we take it that the reason people trusted us to help the victims, their families and communities is that we would look both to the emergency needs and also the long-term needs of victims and their families. How -- not just financial assistance, but what about psychiatric counseling, which we know from experiences in Oklahoma City literally thousands of people, tens of thousands of people will need. What about relocation assistance? Job assistance, et cetera?
So in order to do that, we necessarily have to work with government and other charities that are also providing assistance, because one thing we know is that even though $300 million is an enormous amount of money...
DOBBS: Enormous.
GOTBAUM: ... it is not as much as it will take to deal with all of the needs of all of the victims.
DOBBS: How much money do you think will be required?
GOTBAUM: This is -- no one can tell you in a dollars-and-cents way with an estimate that you of all people would trust how many billions of dollars it will take to deal with the needs and the losses of the thousands, and in fact tens of thousands of victims in this disaster.
That's why we think it's important that we work with, for example, the federal government, which has been very generous in setting up the airline fund...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Joshua, but one of the issues here is we don't know how much it's going to take, but we do know that there are hundreds and hundreds of families of victims who have not yet received anything from either the Red Cross or some other charities.
And we also know, Joshua, that the city and the charities themselves don't yet have an accurate list of those victims with which the charities and those organizations working to help the families of the victims can count on.
GOTBAUM: Lou, I've got the disagree with you, Lou.
DOBBS: OK.
GOTBAUM: The reason that I have some confidence that we are helping people who need help is because...
DOBBS: Oh, wait a minute, Joshua. I didn't say you weren't helping people who need help. What I said is we don't have an accurate list of the victims of the tragedy of September 11. Is that what you're arguing with?
GOTBAUM: No, Lou. I think what is important...
DOBBS: Wait a minute. I need to -- I need to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) what you're arguing with.
GOTBAUM: If I may -- is not -- is not whether or not we have an accurate, infinite list of all the victims so much as while we're developing that list we help everyone who has a need. And that's why, for example, the story you just mentioned of the woman whose common- law husband was undocumented -- we funded Association Pepoyak (ph) in New York to try to reach into that community.
DOBBS: Yes. The outreach. The outreach.
GOTBAUM: And so our hope is that while we are developing more comprehensive lists, everyone who has a need gets help. That is our primary concern right now.
DOBBS: I understand it's your concern and it's your job. But my point is, what can we do to come up with an accurate list of the hundreds of people in which there is a discrepancy between the state and every other agency and the city? And how can we find those people to move that aid to them?
GOTBAUM: Actually, what has happened is we are working with the frontline charities: the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, Safe Horizon, and the state attorney general, Eliot Spitzer, who I understand has been on your show...
DOBBS: That's correct.
GOTBAUM: ... to, in fact, work through developing a comprehensive list so that we can know all the people who we need to help.
DOBBS: Right.
GOTBAUM: Actually... DOBBS: I'm sorry. We're going have to break. I apologize for having to break it off. We've gone a bit longer than we should have. And it's good to know that we're working through that.
Joshua, thank you very much for being here.
GOTBAUM: Thanks, Lou. Glad to be here.
DOBBS: Coming up next, a staggering number of job losses in October, the most in two decades, in fact, pushing the unemployment rate to 5.4 percent. We'll be telling you about that. And we'll be telling you the stocks took that unemployment report, as bad as it was, in stride. We'll have a live report for you next.
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DOBBS: A staggering number of jobs were lost in the month of October, 400,000 of them, in fact. And the unemployment rate, which many economists had expected to rise from 4.9 to 5.2 percent, in point of fact rose to 5.4 percent.
Kathleen Hays is here to analyze these new facts and tell us what they mean -- Kathleen.
KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there's a lot in there, Lou. And it may be that it was a bit more even than terrorist attacks hitting this country. Nonfarm payrolls, the number of jobs created in the economy in October, actually was a loss, a big one, down 414,000. That's the biggest one-month job loss since May of 1980, when this economy was heading into a deep and long recession.
As you just mentioned, the unemployment rate at 5.4 percent, that half percentage point jump was the biggest since May 1980 as well. And as you can see, we're well off that lovely cycle low of 3.9 percent on the unemployment rate hit in late 1990.
Taking a look at how the various sectors fared. Manufacturing jobs have been weak for some time. Factories shed another 142,000 jobs. Construction down 30,000. You know, housing's holding up pretty well, but a lot of public construction, commercial construction's been weak lately. Services, this is where about 80 percent of the economy's growth comes from in jobs, down 241,000. When the economy's healthy, that's the kind of number you would expect to see as an increase in services, Lou.
DOBBS: Kathleen, thank you very much. Kathleen Hays.
We want to turn now to the Pentagon. CNN has just received word that a U.S. helicopter is down. We go to Jamie Mcintyre, our Pentagon correspondent -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, the word just in from a U.S. official that a U.S. special operations helicopter went down in Afghanistan. But at this hour, it appears that all of crew are safe. According to the initial account that we've received, two helicopters were going into Afghanistan. Apparently there was some bad weather. One of the helicopters went down. It's unclear whether it was a result of hostile fire or simply a result of the bad weather.
But it did apparently go down. They made an emergency landing or perhaps even a hard landing. The people from that helicopter were transferred to the second helicopter. And we're told that they were all safely taken out of Afghanistan.
At this point, the mission that they were on and the precise location has not been disclosed. Earlier today at the Pentagon briefing, officials talked about the difficulty in flying helicopters with the increase of freezing rain in the area, some of the bad weather conditions. But again, at this point, we don't have a confirmation of exactly what caused the helicopter to go down.
Just to recap briefly, all U.S. personnel are reported safe after one helicopter went down. And they had to be rescued by a second helicopter that was traveling with it in Afghanistan. And they're all safely out of the Afghan air space at this hour -- Lou.
DOBBS: Good news within that. And thank you for that. Jamie Mcintyre at the Pentagon.
Well, let's now turn, if we may, more, if you will, pedestrian matters such as Wall Street and money. The Dow today gaining 59 points on the session. In point of fact, that was strong enough to limit weekly losses to some 221 points.
The Nasdaq finished the day virtually unchanged, but down more than 1 percent on the week. And for perspective and analysis and great looming truths about the markets, we turn to Christine Romans and Greg Clarkin who join us, after covering these markets all day.
Christine, this performance on the Dow was pretty strong today?
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really was. Everyone keeps saying this market is resilient. We've been hearing that word for five weeks now.
DOBBS: It's a lovely word.
ROMANS: Lou, it is. Well, if you're a bull it is. But it's interesting, some of the traders are telling me that their big accounts are out there putting money to work. With the Dow at 9200, they say heading into an end of the year, there's really not a lot of reason some of these stocks are beaten down, to sit on the sidelines anymore. So there is some buying going on in there.
DOBBS: Terrific. Greg, same story over at the Nasdaq?
GREG CLARKIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, exactly. That was the kind of theme we heard this week, was the market's ability to look past the really slew of negative economic reports this week. The Nasdaq loses 23 points on the week, down just over one percent. All things considered, not a bad performance.
DOBBS: And this unemployment report, Kathleen has just been reported on, I mean, that's a big number. And the market seemed to take it, after a little flurry, in stride.
HAYS: I just would like to say that, to me, because I watch the economy so closely, it's great to see the market resilient. For investors though, I think they have to be careful, because there's going to be bad news ahead. Wall Street's already betting on the recovery, but we don't know the timing of the recovery.
What if we get some more bad earnings that people are going to feel as a setback.
DOBBS: If people aren't, by now, used to bad earnings, I don't know when they will be inured.
HAYS: Well, the average recession last 11 months. The long ones, maybe 16 months. A lot of people say this recession actually started in the summertime, which probably takes us maybe through the beginning of next summer, so before we're really in recovery land.
DOBBS: And a few actually said that this recession began in the second quarter.
HAYS: Absolutely.
DOBBS: And they can make a very good argument. We're obviously in the sixth quarter of an earnings recession. So within this, investors go back to the resilient word. Investors seem, at this point, to be handling anthrax attacks, a war against terrorism, the highest level of uncertainty we've seen geo-politically and economically in some time.
CLARKIN: And you know we started to hear is the week we're on is that some of the short positions weren't as resilient as they had been a couple weeks ago. So the bears becoming less negative. And that's something we haven't heard in quite a while.
ROMANS: A lot of looking across the valley, which is a term you hear. People know it's going to be really tough in the interim. One trader today telling me, listen, we knew it was going to be a really terrible week of economic news. That's why the market was down Monday and Tuesday.
We got that bad news. We said we were surprised, but not shocked by what we saw in the economy. And we're betting that later next year, things have got be better than they are now. The risk, as you point out, is that they're wrong, and that market's in trouble.
DOBBS: Well, some investors within the market would be in trouble, but that's obviously -- I mean, the bets that are being made are what make markets.
HAYS: You know another thing interesting, just I think even from today after this unemployment report, some Wall Street firms revising their forecasts down for GDP. And now, for the Fed fund's rate, the Fed's key short-term rate, they expect a half percentage cut next week and maybe the low in Fed funds at 1.5 percent.
ROMANS: Unbelievable.
DOBBS: And we can't -- we'll just wrap this up by saying, and I'll turn to Kathleen for this, who meets next week?
HAYS: The Federal Reserve. Alan Greenspan and Company.
DOBBS: It's going to be a big week for Kathleen. Thank you all.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" begins in just a few minutes. Let's turn to Wolf in Washington to tell us what's ahead -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Lou. We're following the latest bombing campaign developments inside Afghanistan, including the breaking news. You just reported it. A downed U.S. helicopter in Afghanistan. We'll have details.
Also, how important is the coalition? I'll ask three men who've advised presidents. Former national security adviser Brent Scowcroft, former Nato ambassador Robert Hunter, and Ken Adelman, a member of the Pentagon's defense policy board. That, and all the day's latest developments next.
Lou, have a great weekend.
DOBBS: You, too, Wolf. Sounds like a terrific show. We'll be watching. Thank you.
Coming up next, we'll take a look at what could be moving the markets next week. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: Looking at the week ahead on Wall Street, the Federal open market committee meets Tuesday. The Fed widely expected to cut interest rates for the tenth time this year. Kathleen, Christine and Greg believe it'll be a 50 basis point cut. We'll see.
Also Tuesday, an important step in the Microsoft settlement when states decide whether to agree on that deal.
On the economic front, October's NAPM Producer Price Index and University of Michigan Report on consumer sentiment, all of that to give us further sense of the direction of this economy.
That is MONEYLINE for this Friday evening. We thank you for being with us. I'm Lou Dobbs. Have a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" begins right now.
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