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CNN Sunday Morning

Circle of Anthrax Contamination Widens

Aired November 04, 2001 - 08:14   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN ANCHOR: In the anthrax investigation, authorities are in a desperate search for answers even as the circle of contamination grows ever wider. To date, 17 people have been infected with anthrax; four have died of inhalation anthrax. And now in Pakistan, authorities are facing their own anthrax threats.

Joining us now to talk about it all is CNN bioterrorism analyst Javed Ali.

Thanks so much for coming in again today.

JAVED ALI, CNN BIOTERRORISM ANALYST: Thank you, Jeanne.

MESERVE: The case of Kathy Nguyen, this woman in New York who died of inhalation anthrax but isn't a postal worker, worked in a hospital, a big mystery. Is it to you as well? Do you have any theories as to how she may have become infected?

ALI: It certainly is a mystery at this point. What is so strange is that she contracted the pulmonary form of the disease, meaning that she was exposed somewhere in her, you know, activities, to a sufficient amount of spores to be inhaled. Now what's strange about that is no one else associated with her -- friends, colleagues, coworkers -- has also come down with those symptoms, even though, in a biological sense, not everyone -- even if they are exposed -- will come down with the disease at the same time. But, you know, we're talking about a two-week timeframe now, and no one else is manifesting those symptoms.

MESERVE: Any theories as to possible explanations?

ALI: I'm just as mystified as I'm sure the investigators are. It is very strange. I mean, I think everyone will probably -- looking at the mail as a possible source. But she doesn't work with the mail; her house has tested negative; the hospital itself has tested negative for the presence of spores. So it is very strange.

MESERVE: There were reports yesterday that they have now said this is the same strain that was in the Daschle letter and the "Post" letter -- "Washington Post" letter -- excuse me, "New York Post" letter.

ALI: Right.

MESERVE: What does that signify? How big a clue is that in the investigation?

ALI: It's a good clue in the sense that you -- or the investigators can at least work with the fact that this appears to be the same source, in the sense of an entity that is sponsoring these incidents. Not so much narrowing it down geographically, where it may have come from, but the fact that the strains all match up indicates that there is an entity out there -- whether that's an individual or a group, whomever -- that is sponsoring these incidents. And now we're seeing the effects all up and down the East Coast.

MESERVE: No new cases here in Washington, but they're talking about what measures to take to try and clean it up...

ALI: Right.

MESERVE: ...the Hart office building. They're talking about using chlorine dioxide gas. What can you tell me about that method?

ALI: That method has been used for a long time, years in the water treatment facilities. So it is sort of an approved method of disinfecting certain types of materials -- in this case, water. I don't know if it's ever been used in this sort of large -- to this large extent with decontaminating a building. But apparently it is less corrosive, less toxic to things. So that's why it is a preferred method of fumigating or decontaminating a building of this magnitude.

MESERVE: I want to ask you quickly about the situation in Pakistan, where one of several letters to a Pakistani newspaper has tested positive for anthrax. What does that tell you?

ALI: Pakistan may now be a threat. I think there were -- a couple of days ago apparently there was a letter that was sent from someone in the bin Laden network, if not bin Laden himself, who was indicating that the al Qaeda network or the Taliban were upset with Pakistan's support in -- for the coalition effort. And this may be a message to the Pakistani authorities.

MESERVE: I want to ask you about smallpox, which is the thing people in Washington, at least, are talking a great deal about. If a group can disperse anthrax, does that necessarily mean they have any capability to disperse smallpox? Or are they very different things?

ALI: I personally believe they are two totally different things. And not to say that smallpox isn't a threat, because it is a threat in the sense that it does -- if we do see a single case of smallpox, it will be a national, or even international, health crisis. But there's no evidence to suggest that any terrorist organization has ever acquired the capability, even got their hands on a smallpox sample, leave aside trying to develop it into a weapon.

MESERVE: How would it be different? It is, of course, a virus as opposed to a bacteria. Is that one of the things that makes the technology not necessarily transferable?

ALI: It -- that's one of the things. But the hardest thing is getting access to a sample. Now there are only two known repositories of the disease, one in Atlanta, one in Siberia. There may be other countries who had clandestinely kept stocks of the disease after the disease was declared eradicated, but there's no way to tell exactly who has what. So I think getting access to a sample would be the hardest thing for a terrorist organization.

MESERVE: Javed Ali, thanks so much for your insight.

ALI: Thank you.

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