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CNN Sunday Morning

Peter Bouckaert of Human Rights Watch Discusses the Plight of Refugees in Afghanistan

Aired November 04, 2001 - 10:22   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. bombing campaign in Afghanistan has chased many into a no man's land where hunger and disease loom a bit larger each passing day. For a closer look at the plight of the refugees, we turn to Peter Bouckaert, the senior researcher of the international group Human Rights Watch. He joins us from Quetta, Pakistan.

Thanks so much for joining us. What are the refugees telling you about the situation inside Afghanistan?

PETER BOUCKAERT, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: Well, they're telling us that the situation is rapidly deteriorating for them. Certainly, the bombing campaign has spread to a wider range of targets, which has created a greater sense of insecurity among the refugees.

The humanitarian situation is also getting worse. People are running out of food and money and so they are coming in greater numbers to the border. They're also afraid of the fighting, which may come to their area very soon.

MESERVE: What are they telling you about civilian casualties as a result of the U.S. bombing?

BOUCKAERT: Well, we have documented two cases in the last week where there were more than 20 civilian casualties in each case in remote villages inside Afghanistan. We certainly are concerned about this kind of bombing errors, and we think that the Pentagon should be taking greater precautions. Those have been smaller number -- the number of civilian casualties associated with many strikes on military targets just by passers basically.

MESERVE: Is part of this caused by the fact the Taliban seems to be hiding itself and some of its military assets within civilian populations?

BOUCKAERT: Well, certainly a lot of the military assets are located within densely populated areas. For example, in the city of Kandahar, police stations and military headquarters and depots of ammunition are located within the city and have been hit by the U.S. military. We are concerned that the Taliban seems to be spreading out its men and its weapons and also by reports that they're moving some their military equipment into IDP camps where displaced people live.

MESERVE: What is the true situation at the moment?

BOUCKAERT: Well, it's very difficult for humanitarian agencies to reach needy populations inside Afghanistan.

People were dying from hunger before this bombing campaign started and certainly the situation is getting worse day by day. The problems is both the U.S. bombing campaign which is making it difficult for humanitarian agencies to operate, but also the Taliban which has been targeting many offices of humanitarian agencies, stealing their cars and their equipment, their of communication facilities, making it very difficulty and forcing some humanitarian agencies to suspend their work inside Afghanistan.

MESERVE: Now, the U.S. has been doing food drops. Have those had any significant effect?

BOUCKAERT: Well, I've been here four weeks now and I haven't spoken to a single person who has seen one of these packages. Obviously, the food drops that are being done cannot meet the vast humanitarian needs, the food needs within the country. Many people are in need of extensive food supplies to make it through the winter and the airdrops simply cannot meet the needs of those people.

MESERVE: Do the refugees seem to be blaming one party or another party for the situation they find themselves in?

BOUCKAERT: Excuse me can you repeat that question?

MESERVE: Yes, I was wondering who the refugees were blaming for the situation they find themselves in?

BOUCKAERT: Well, I think the refugees are fleeing because they feel increasingly -- they're fleeing because they feel increasingly insecure. It's very difficult for them to gauge the impact of the bombing. They describe their homes shaking from these very powerful explosives.

But they certainly are also concerned about issues such as forced recruitments and a fighting, which may develop between the Northern Alliance and the Taliban. The many Pashtun speaking people in the south are very afraid of the Northern Alliance, which has a record of abuse as well as the Taliban. So I don't think we can assign -- the refugees are assigning blame to any one side. They're just fleeing because the situation inside the country is getting worse.

MESERVE: Has Human Rights Watch tried to get into Afghanistan?

BOUCKAERT: We have -- we are trying to get inside Afghanistan. Obviously, there are very serious security concerns for our staff as well as the difficulties in obtaining permission. You have to understand that we are critical of the Taliban and have been so for a long time for the serious human rights abuses that they have committed. We feel that we can do our work adequately from the neighboring countries relying on very extensive interviews with refugees and other victims.

MESERVE: Peter Bouckaert of Human Rights Watch, thanks so much for joining us.

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