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American Morning

Reports Anti-Taliban Forces Score Two Strategic Victories; Discussion About Continuing Problems in Middle East

Aired November 06, 2001 - 09:21   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Unconfirmed reports from anti-Taliban forces in Northern Afghanistan that they have scored two strategic victories today in area south of Mazar-e-Sharif.

CNN's Satinder Bindra is in Northern Afghanistan. He Filed this update shortly after the Northern Alliance claimed today's first success.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For weeks, there's been a military stalemate here on the ground, but now it appears that situation is changing. The Northern Alliance claiming this morning that it captured the district of Zari (ph). Zari lies just south of the strategic city of Mazar-e-Sharif. The Northern Alliance claiming its soldiers have captured several Taliban troops.

Now we cannot independently verify this, but what we can independently confirm is that fighting in and around Mazar-e-Sharif has been intensifying for the past few days.

Just a few days ago, Northern Alliance troops captures large tracts of the district of Okanogan (ph). The latest now there is that the Taliban have recaptured parts of Okubrook, and very intense fighting is going on near the city of Cisenday (ph). Cisdenday is also just south of the city of Mazar-e-Sharif.

Meanwhile, signs of more cooperation between Northern Alliance forces and the United States. Two days, a helicopter, an MI-8, a Russian built MI-8, it landed here, but it had U.S. marshals on it, and now Northern Alliance commanders confirming that indeed it was a U.S. helicopter that landed here, albeit briefly.

Satinder Bindra, CNN, Kojabahadeen (ph), Northeastern Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Time too talk about problems in the Middle East. Three Palestinians have been killed and an Israeli soldier injured in a clash today in the West Bank. It is the latest episode of violence as both the U.S. and the European community pressure both sides to get with the peace process. Alon Pinkus is Israel's consul general here in New York, and he joins us now to talk about the violence, Israel's military presence in Palestinian areas, and how it all relates to the war on terrorism.

A lot of territory to cover this morning.

Welcome.

ALON PINKUS, ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL: Yes, easy job.

ZAHN: All right.

PINKUS: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: First of all, what is your understanding what came out of the Brussels meetings between Foreign Minister Peres and Yasser Arafat, anything?

PINKUS: I don't know yet. I don't know yet. What needs to come out is an unequivocal statement by Mr. Arafat that enough with the violence and let's move on to a negotiations phase, to a negotiation phase, to anything has negotiations in it, rather than violence, and I think he's also under pressure on the Palestinian streets, but that's an entirely different issue.

ZAHN: And pressure you refer to is? From the Islamic jihad and the other extremist group saying that, we are not going to listen.

PINKUS: That -- no, and counter-pressures, urging him to go back to negotiating table. It is not enough that the U.S., and Britain, and Russia and Israel are pressuring him, which we should increase that pressure, he needs to understand that enough is enough, that one year worth of violence produced nothing, no tangible goods, no visible benefits for Palestinian people. He's only masterminded terrorism for the last year, and we are saying something very simple, enough with terrorism, look around you, look what is happening in the world today. At the end of the day, you are going to be in the bad guy camp, you are not going to stay for long in the coalition if you continue this way.

ZAHN: Yesterday we did controversial interview with Edward Said, who is a Palestinian scholar who teaches at Columbia University. I wanted to replay a small part he had to say for you to react to, because basically, in your charge right now, he said it's the complete opposite, the Israelis are the terrorists. Let's listen to what he had to say yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWARD SAID, PALESTINIAN SCHOLAR: I think now that there's climate of understanding, beginning to understand that in our relations with Americans with the Muslim world, the Muslim and Arab world, central to the whole thing is resolution of the problem of Palestine. And the only way it can be resolved is with the U.S., and the European allies, to bring about what in fact is a pullback, on the forces. Well, not the forces. The Israeli army should withdraw and the Palestinians can try to establish a normal life within declared boundaries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Is there any viability to that idea?

PINKUS: No, there isn't.

ZAHN: Why not?

PINKUS: Mr. Said is a leading Arab intellectual, and have I thoroughly read most of his work, which is why I'm surprised that he doesn't feel that he's accountable to this own political culture. Why isn't there democracy in Palestinian society? Why is there no liberties? Why aren't there women's rights? Why is the educational system replete with anti-Semitic, anti-Israeli, anti-Western, anti- human rights, anti-civil rights curricula.

Now every few years, he changes the thrust of his argument. First it was that Israel should be abolished. Then it was that Israel is an occupier, then it was that Israel is not giving back enough. Now it's that Israel is a terrorist threat. It's ridiculous.

ZAHN: He went on to say something about Yasser Arafat being a paralyzed man. I want you to react to. Here's what he said:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAID: Yasser Arafat is unable to move from one part of the West Bank to other, from Gaza to the West Bank. He is unable to use the little airport strip in Gaza, without Israeli permission.

Yasser Arafat is a paralyzed leader, that's number one. Number two, his people are scattered over a much larger area than he controls, and that anything can he do is minor compared to damage visited on him by the Israelis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: I'm sure there's part ever that you agree with. I mean, you've been arguing for a long time that Arafat is a paralyzed leader. So that, you don't take umbrage to.

PINKUS: No, I don't, but let me try to expand on that. He's a paralyzed leader in terms of his statesmanship. He's been paralyzed politically and intellectually for the last year. Now Mr. Said is referring to a physical paralysis, in that his movement is impeded. Yes, his movement is impeded. Yes, he's paralyzed, because he's done nothing in the last year to stop terrorism, originating from territories that he's responsible for.

ZAHN: He said his people are suffering at hands of terrorism from the Israelis, that's what repeated over and over again yesterday.

PINKUS: His people, the Palestinian people, are suffering from the shortcomings of their own leadership. We have no interest to be in the West Bank and Gaza, certainly not in the way they are deployed there right now.

ZAHN: You think you will pull out altogether?

PINKUS: We tried too pulled out. It was called the Camp David Agreement -- or the Camp David Peace Negotiations rather.

ZAHN: You pulled out of one West Bank town now. Do you expect to follow...

PINKUS: And we will pull out from the other major cities in due time, when he gets his act together, when he does the work, and performs the duties that he's supposed to, according to the Oslo agreements. We are only doing this because he failed to do it himself. We have no interest going back to Calcelia (ph), Nablus (ph), Bethlehem, or Ramallah, absolutely no interest. Quite the contrary. We want to get out. We want to get out quick. But he needs to exert authority. He needs to express sovereignty. He needs to behave like his title suggests. he calls himself a president, fine, act like one. He calls himself leader of the Palestinian Authority, express authority. He's Palestinian. I don't know anything about authority in the last year.

ZAHN: Well, we'd love to have you come back and maybe invite Mr. Said along. How would you like to debate him one on one? Would you like to do that some morning?

PINKUS: Yes, I would.

ZAHN: We'll see if he will agree to that.

Thank you, as always, for your perspective this morning.

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