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American Morning

Pentagon Does Little To Mark One Month of Bombing

Aired November 07, 2001 - 10:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: In the meantime, though, to the Pentagon. We are at the one month mark today for military action. Bob Franken there with us live. And first things first, Bob, how does the Pentagon frame the mission now, 30 days in?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's interesting. The Pentagon is really doing very little to mark the one month -- the one month anniversary, so to speak, of the beginning of the campaign which has been, for the most part, an air campaign. The Pentagon is not, for instance, putting out any statistics or anything about it. But, of course, it's time to take stock. Something that has actually been going on a day-to-day basis, thanks, if nothing else, to reporter questions.

According to the Pentagon, things are going according to plan. We don't know, because they won't tell us what the subsequent plans are going to be, but almost certainly according everybody who is involved in this or is an expert in the matter, it will include an air operation that will be supplemented, almost replaced in many ways by a ground operation. The question, of course, is one of timing.

The Pentagon says that it's increasingly intensified campaign of bombing is beginning to have an effect on Taliban positions which have been amazingly resistant. In over the month, of course, the Pentagon had to deal with sometimes a defensive posture, one that is often times caused by civilian casualties, or claims of civilian casualties or claims of a helicopter down, or something like this, trying to struggle to maintain, not just the credibility of the Pentagon, but more importantly, according to the defense secretary, to keep up the resolve, the patience of the people of the United States.

HEMMER: Bob, we've got a map here. Want it take to you to the ground right now. the northern town of Mazar-e-Sharif. Reports today from the Northern Alliance saying they have taken three small villages just south of that town of Mazar-e-Sharif. These reports have gone back and forth for several weeks now. How reliable, the Pentagon, are they getting word on whether or not the Northern Alliance does indeed have control there.

FRANKEN: Well, as a matter of fact, the Pentagon has complained all along that the quality of information from the ground can sometimes be erratic, simply because this is such a remote area and there aren't that many U.S. forces on the ground, but they are in regular communication with Northern Alliance forces. What they point out is that Taliban forces have been, to use their word, unusually dogged. They have really held up to the intense bombing that has come from the United States.

The second thing, they say, is that there's a real -- and this is another quote -- ebb and flow to the forces of this particular battle. Now the region, of course, is highly important because of its position along the supply route, and so it is considered a vital area. The Northern Alliance forces are making a run at the Taliban forces and they claim they have taken a couple villages but the real target is Mazar-e-Sharif, which is about 20 miles from the villages.

HEMMER: Ok, Bob, I want to go back to the map quickly, here, as we look further west. The town of Herat. We've talked about this town as well. If indeed, from strategy standpoint, the Northern Alliance can take that town in the west, connect it with Mazar-e- Sharif, as you were mentioning, that would be a critical point for strategy. How far away do you believe, based on the people you talk to, is that from now?

FRANKEN: Well, as a matter of fact, not only do I not have a belief, but the Pentagon officials insist they don't. They just don't know. They of course were burned a little bit a couple of weeks ago when one of their spokesmen said that Taliban forces had been -- quote -- "eviscerated." They have come to eat those words. The fact is that the Taliban have proven that they are quite resilient, and so it's difficult to predict when they're going to collapse. There is, of course, a strongly held belief here that it's just a matter of time before the Taliban does -- the troops do collapse.

HEMMER: Bob, I ask you every morning. Briefing what time today?

FRANKEN: Today's briefing is 12 noon.

HEMMER: Got it. We'll see you then.

FRANKEN: Eastern time.

HEMMER: Okay, thank you, Bob. About two hours from now. Hour 55, to be more precise. Bob, thank you.

The U.S.-led coalition against terrorism growing, we had Germany announce yesterday it was contributing troops, and Italy announced that it will contribute about 2700 to the mission. Initially, an Italian air craft carrier, two frigates, and a supply vessel will steam to the Persian Gulf, and later it is said that up to a thousand ground troops will also take part on behalf of Italy.

Before the attacks of 9-11, Afghanistan, we all know, nearly invisible on the American radar screen. It was a distant land, barren landscape, brutish politics on the ground there, and now that country looms large as does a supporting cast of shadowy characters and simmering sub plots. At this hour in Washington, the brother of one Afghan exiled leader will testify about the current process on the ground to uproot the Taliban. CNN's Andrea Koppel with a closer look at the Karzai family.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For me, Karzai has many reasons to oppose Taliban and to hate Osama bin Laden.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Here in his Maryland home, Qayum Karzai is half a world away from his brother Hamid in Afghanistan when he hears the latest news. Within minutes, in what has become a daily ritual, Karzai calls yet another brother in Pakistan to check on Hamid's safety. It's just the latest of many reports and rumors swirling around 44-year-old Hamid Karzai, an exiled Afghan leader since he took off on his secret mission to southern Afghanistan last month to mobilize opposition to the Taliban.

QAYUM KARZAI, HAMID'S BROTHER: He was going from village to village and talking to people and the tribal elders, and he was doing extremely good.

KOPPEL: It's a mission begun by their father, Abdul Ahad Karzai, a former Afghan senator believed to have been assassinated two years ago by the Taliban. Hamid himself is a former deputy foreign minister in the Afghan government overthrown by the Taliban.

HAMID KARZAI, AFGHAN OPPOSITION LEADER: And we will welcome any action that takes terrorism out of Afghanistan, and that helps Afghanistan back on its own feet.

KOPPEL: Today is he following an ancient Afghan tradition, hoping to use his families deep roots within the Pashtun majority tribe to assemble a loyajurga (ph), a council of elders, to choose a new Afghan government. CNN reached Karzai on Tuesday in the mountains of Southern Afghanistan.

HAMID KARZAI: I was surprised, truly, to find out that the people were absolutely in support of an honorable life for Afghans and the return of peace, in support of loyajurga (ph).

KOPPEL: Only weeks ago, another Afghan opposition leader, Abdul Haq was killed by the Taliban on a similar mission. Now the international community is pinning its hopes on Karzai to convince enough Afghans to join the cause. Karzai admits the Taliban have been hot on his trail. So much so, the Pentagon says it air lifted Karzai out of Afghanistan last weekend.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: At his request, he was extracted from Afghanistan with a small number of his senior supporters and fighters.

KOPPEL: Karzai maintains he's in Afghanistan now, in nearby Quetta, Pakistan, his brother Ahmed dismisses reports of U.S. help, repeating a now familiar refrain, that Afghans must come together first before they can accept outside assistance.

AHMED KARZAI: And we will be able to solve our problems. All the tribes -- all the people from Afghanistan. KOPPEL: Back in the U.S., Qayum Karzai tries to be patient, but it's not easy. In Quetta, too, Ahmed Karzai is waiting for another call from Hamid, spending most days in his home with former mujahideen fighters, who say they're ready and willing to go fight the Taliban as soon as Hamid gives the word.

Andrea Koppel, CNN, Washington.

HEMMER: Want to get back to the military campaign now. As we mention, one month today marks the beginning of that bombing campaign. Let's talk more about it with our military consultant, Retired Major General Don Shepperd with us in Washington. General, good morning to you.

MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: I just heard you twenty minutes ago with Kyra Phillips make a great point about how the U.S. military has moved men and women and machine half way around the world in just about a month's time. At this point, clearly you are pleased with that movement, anyway, right?

SHEPPERD: I am pleased with the movement. It's a long way. Half way around the world in a difficult place. It's easy to fly things in, but the heavy equipment has to be taken by ships. This is in a most difficult area from a port standpoint. I am very impressed with what we've moved and how fast, and what we're doing with it so far. It's a difficult campaign.

HEMMER: Let me play the critic for a second, here, General. Anywhere between a 80 and 120 sorties flown a day. Some are saying that is very light. Not nearly as intense as the U.S. could carry out that campaign. They indicate it could be tripled at any point. Up to a thousand sorties a day could be flown at any time. Why do you believe that number is so low?

SHEPPERD: Well, the number is so low -- I think is because it's in accordance with the CINCs. General Franks war plan. It does no good to drop bombs unless those bombs are being dropped on targets that make a difference. If the effects based targeting is what you are after, so you have to have the intelligence to make sure you're dropping them in the right place. What you also want to consider, you don't want to be real timid and allow the enemy to get used to your airstrikes and disburse.

So, General Franks has the moving of parts of this, and the responsibility, his war plans to bring air power -- to bring air power to bear before he starts any kind of ground campaign out there.

HEMMER: So you're saying the targets and intelligence, both critical. Is this a suggestion that both are lacking right now.

SHEPPERD: No, it's always hard. When you start a war, you have to establish trust, you have to get the real intelligence, and sort out what's true from what is belief. And it's a very, very difficult task. Again, the CINC has that responsibility.

Back to your point of 120 strikes a day, that is nothing compared to what we are able to do. When the CINC is ready to do it, when he has the right intelligence and the right liaison with the ground forces, which, right now, are the Northern Alliance and the other opposition forces. He has to put those pieces together.

HEMMER: Let's talk about the weather. Winter is coming, but it is my understanding that this is not a winter that most people envision. This is not like two feet of snow in Northern Minnesota with heavy, heavy cloud cover overhead. In that part of the world, General, correct me if I'm wrong here, but have you a lot of warm wind that moves up in many places. Even though the mountains are a twenty feet -- thousand feet in altitude, it may take to you 10,000 feet before you hit the snow line. Given that, the point I'm making is, that just because winter comes along doesn't mean the bombing is stopped in any sense, correct?

SHEPPERD: No, it does not. You are correct, Bill. The winter is both a blessing and a curse in many ways. Winter does hamper operations. With cloud cover, it makes everything more difficult. You have to bring things down -- certain things down underneath the cloud, such as the Predator, makes it easy it shoot down. It hampers laser guided bombs from being delivered through the weather. But have you satellite guided bombs. So we have the assets to do it.

But, the weather picture over there, is as you have described. In the western part, it's much like high a desert winter in Arizona, if you will. In the mountains, you can get some very fierce storms, but it's definitely a factor, and it definitely slows things down. But we're better at operating in the winter, as U.S. and coalition, than are the Taliban.

HEMMER: Got it. More on this coming up in the weeks and months ahead. Quite clearly a Daisy Cutter, why do they give it that name, General?

SHEPPERD: It goes off above the ground, and basically levels things at a certain level. The fuse goes off three or four feet above the ground and then you have an explosion that levels things at that level. So it's kind of like a lawn mower effect. We used it in Vietnam to clear helicopter landing areas. It's a concussion weapon, and extremely effective.

HEMMER: With the image here, trying to cut off the flower tops of those daisies as the lawn mower moves across the lawn.

SHEPPERD: Indeed.

HEMMER: General, thank you. We'll talk again, all right? Major General Don Shepherd.

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