Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Investigators Follow Nguyen's Trail Using Metro Card; Senator Feinstein Drafts Legislation to Register Labs Working With Deadly Biological Agents
Aired November 08, 2001 - 09:11 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: In New York, there are still no clues in another anthrax death, the death of hospital worker Kathy Nguyen. Authorities are retracing her steps, trying to figure out how she became infected. CNN National Correspondent Gary Tuchman updates us on the investigation.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A subway fare card. Could a card used by Kathy Nguyen help unravel America's anthrax mystery?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She would always buy a monthly pass. She could come and go without having to stop here all the time. I used to see her, she would say, "hi, how are you doing."
TUCHMAN: Following her death from inhalation anthrax, at least two New York City Metro cards were found in her apartment. Investigators are now taking data from the cards, which tell them where she got on the subway and where she got off. Because everything tested so far, where she lived, where she worked, has come back negative, investigators hope the subway fare card can provide a clue as to where this woman, who had nothing to do with the post office, the news media, or politics, was exposed to the deadly anthrax.
BO DIETL, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: We're just hoping that we can make a connection. Maybe she went into some restaurant that someone was really infected with it, and that's where you have to backtrack.
TUCHMAN: A working theory, that somewhere outside of her home, she accidentally came into contact with someone responsible for all the anthrax attacks. Backtracking, authorities hope, could help lead them to the person or persons responsible.
(on camera): But there's no reason to believe authorities are anywhere close to solving this mystery. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's saying that it's -- quote -- "struck about the difficulty of getting day-to-day information."
(voice-over): In a sad irony, one of Kathy Nguyen's neighbors at her Bronx apartment building says Kathy warned her about anthrax, the day she got sick.
(on camera): On Thursday, Kathy told you to wash your hands, to be careful about anthrax.
JOSEFA RICHADOS, KATHY NGUYEN'S NEIGHBOR: Say, "Josefa, wash your hands. You go take the -- you know, the letter in the box."
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Her mailbox tested negative for anthrax, as did her apartment, her clothing, the hospital supply room where she worked, even some subway employees have been tested. It's all come out negative, which has only deepened this mystery. Gary Tuchman, CNN, New York.
ZAHN: And on top of that, the FBI has admitted it really doesn't know who might have access to anthrax in the United States. That statement was alarming to Senator Dianne Feinstein, and she took the agency to task in this exchange in a hearing this past Tuesday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DIANE FEINSTEIN (D-CA): How many labs handle anthrax in the United States?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not know that at this time. I can assure you --
FEINSTEIN: You don't know that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we do not. We are pressing hard to determine that --
FEINSTEIN: Could you possibly tell me why you do not know that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The research -- the research capabilities of thousands of researchers is -- is something that we are discontinuing to run down. I know it's an unsatisfactory answer, an unsatisfying to us as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So, Senator Feinstein has actually drafted some legislation intended to tighten lab security and requiring any lab working with hazardous agents to register with the Health and Human Services Department. Senator Feinstein now joins us from Capitol Hill this morning. Good to have you with us this morning. Thank you for joining us.
FEINSTEIN: Thank you, Paula. Thank you.
ZAHN: So we know that the head of the FBI counter-terrorism department basically told you he knew his answer was unsatisfactory, so where do we go from here.
FEINSTEIN: Well, see, I don't blame the FBI. The problem is we haven't done what we should do with respect to the national security of our nation. Of developing protection, in the law, as to how these deadly pathogens and biological materials are handled. In my view, it makes no sense to allow anybody to possess these kinds of agents outside of a registered laboratory that's doing legitimate research. As was pointed out to us, Paula, if you have a glass of water and half of it's gone, you know half of it's gone.
ZAHN: Right.
FEINSTEIN: But with these materials, just a microscopic amount is enough to culture and grow more deadly agents. So I -- I think we need to change the law. We have legislation to do it, and I'm hopeful that the Senate and the House will be receptive to that.
ZAHN: And obviously, the piece of legislation you're going to sponsor would close some of the loopholes. I think some Americans might be alarmed to hear that before 1997 you could have anthrax in your possession, and not register as long as you didn't plan to mail it any place.
FEINSTEIN: Well, that's right. And even now, the burden is on the prosecution to show that an individual shouldn't possess one of these deadly agents. There are about 40 of them. And if you think about it, there's really no reason why any individual should be able to possess this kind of material. We're talking about the most deadly biological viruses, fungis, pathogens, et cetera, and outside a legitimate research project, I didn't think these things should be floating around our society. This is just one more indication of how laid back we've been about -- as a society, in terms of protecting from these kinds of episodes.
ZAHN: So I know the FBI couldn't answer your question about anthrax, but to this day, do we have any idea how many people across the country have -- either have the stuff now or have access to it within the United States?
FEINSTEIN: No, I don't believe we do. We heard testimony that there are about 500 labs in the United States. That really have these deadly pathogens and probably 1500 labs internationally. But what's been removed in terms of little bits and pieces from these labs, we don't know.
ZAHN: But of these 500 labs, do we know how many of them are even registered with the governments, is there any record what when have?
FEINSTEIN: Well, I can't -- I assume these are those have some kind of registration, but what's clear to me is that the controls on them are so weak at the present time, and part of this has always been justified on the basis of legitimate scientific inquiry. So there has been a kind of laissez-faire atmosphere, if you will, so that legitimate scientific inquiry isn't thwarted. Well, I think you can do both at the same time.
ZAHN: So if -- you know, Senator, if your legislation passes, what are the specific loopholes, then that it would close?
FEINSTEIN: Well, it would make it illegal to possess these 40 deadly agents outside of a registered lab, certified, doing legitimate research work. And everyone working in that lab has had a background check, and is not -- does not have a criminal record, is not an illegal alien, and, incidentally, there's objection to this. There are people that don't want us to do this -- to pass this kind of legislation. But I think it's in the national security interest, I think we have to do this because I don't think we've seen the end to this kind of attack on the United States.
ZAHN: Well, Senator Feinstein, we appreciate your walking through some of these loopholes with us this morning.
FEINSTEIN: You are welcome.
ZAHN: And we'd love to have you come back as the debate heats up, maybe we'll get a debate going with one of your colleagues to help us further understand was going on, on this particular issue. Thank you again. Take care.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
